mites update + a few mite-related questions

guess who got mites with her new Pastel Bamboo addition?! me!!! [emoji3] [emoji31]

so i held that Pastel Bamboo for almost 10 minutes when i saw this breeder was at this show (we had been talking through MM) and id like to think i would have seen these mites beforehand given the size of them once they were discovered. however, after contacting both breeders IMMEDIATELY upon the discovery, and just thinking in general, i have two theories:

1. the breeder i got the B.Pastel from said there was one particular booth that had very questionable animals.

2. the Bamboo breeder's son was there and handling aaaaall daddy's snakes and even walking around the entire show with one of them. the son also handled the Bamboo before i made the purchase. i can guess he made a perfectly unhygienic vector for those icky mites.

im leaning heavily towards the latter theory.

anyway, it was like the next day or so when i went to check on the QT babies when i noticed the Pastel Bamboo had a perfect shed; yay! then i notice little specks on the paper towel, and then they moved. boo.

honestly i didn't react like i always imagined i would: crying and being angry (my go-to emotion for any distress LOL); instead i just started laughing and just kinda got to work. ive been reading about mites and mite prevention for over 5 years, and now it was time to put that knowledge to work.
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SIDENOTE: i do not blame the breeder. we talked extensively at the show about the importance of quarantine and proper care of mites, and he even explained how to use the Provent-a-Mite to me. i do, however, blame the show for shoving so many vendors into such a small building; even Tinley has adequate space for all booths, but i digress.

so coincidentally i bought my first can of Provent-a-Mite (referred to as PAM from henceforth) at this show, so i was able to start the extermination right away: i immediately picked every mite off the paper towel (about 5?) and tossed them into the toilet and tossed the paper towel in the downstairs garbage bin (0 snakes on that floor). i did the same for the B.Pastel but thus far it seems they hadn't gotten to her yet. then i had to evacuate both QT snakes from the room to spray PAM on freaking EVERYTHING, and let the vapors dissipate. then you just put everything back together. as i put the snakes back in, i was able to pick off two more mites from the Bamboo (one under his scales and one in his lil butt ): ).

i came back on here and got some great help from a couple users, and i ended up going out to buy Frontline spray the next day (40min round trip lol) to treat the snakes directly, as PAM only treats the bins.

both snakes hated the Frontline treatment (its alcohol-based, which they dont like the smell of i think), but the B.Pastel was easily the most stressed by all the movement from the past couple days.

the day after the Frontline treatment, i went to replace their water dishes (must remove them for 24hrs after Frontline application so it doesn't get into their water before drying down) and was shocked to see a couple dead mites on the paper towel, but they might have been molts? im not too sure. anyway they were removed from the enclosure and flushed.

so as of now it has been two weeks and two Frontline applications later, and another PAM treatment coming up. i have not seen a mite since, and thankfully the B.Pastel has seemed to avoid it entirely despite being housed next to one another. the Frontline spray is honestly a miracle!!!

however, this is where the real work starts with mite prevention: diligence!!! just because they're out of sight means NOTHING when you are aware of their life cycle and how these little...PESTS work. i have a minimum of another month of this.

so now i have questions:

preface: this B.Pastel has not eaten for me yet, and is ~80g tiny and sOoOo fiesty. i know she's a good eater (personality alone, but breeder said so as well) so i can only assume she is stressed to the nth degree about all this and possibly needs more tailored husbandry to accommodate her needs.

question: should i withhold on the PAM treatment for a few days to try and offer her a meal? or should i focus on my mite issue? should i worry about her not having a meal yet? she is currently in a 12qt, but would it be worth it to try and move her to a 6qt? would that just compound the stress?

it's been a long while since ive had a baby i couldn't get to eat, and with mites i feel a bit lost.

any input is so much appreciated. <3

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question: should i withhold on the PAM treatment for a few days to try and offer her a meal? or should i focus on my mite issue? should i worry about her not having a meal yet? she is currently in a 12qt, but would it be worth it to try and move her to a 6qt? would that just compound the stress?

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I can't tell you what to do but I can tell you what I would do if I was in your shoes, I would get a quarts tub pre-treat for mites, let dry, put the snake in and wait a week to feed.

Mites would be my priority #1, feeding #2

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I can't tell you what to do but I can tell you what I would do if I was in your shoes, I would get a quarts tub pre-treat for mites, let dry, put the snake in and wait a week to feed.

Mites would be my priority #1, feeding #2

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i figured mites should be #1, thank you Deborah!

should i move her to a treated 6qt tub then? or keep her in the 12qt (after another PAM treatment of course)?

tttaylorrr,

So sorry!

I don't have anything to add regarding treating mites, but I wish you and the crew the best of luck!

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

i figured mites should be #1, thank you Deborah!

should i move her to a treated 6qt tub then? or keep her in the 12qt (after another PAM treatment of course)?

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I would do a all in one yes, I would use the 6 quarts tub treat it and wait a week this way in a week she is ready to feed and I would re-treat again in 2 weeks, usually one treatment is enough but better be safe than sorry.

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Originally Posted by dakski

tttaylorrr,

So sorry!

I don't have anything to add regarding treating mites, but I wish you and the crew the best of luck!

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thank you, dave! it's been...interesting, lol. i'm kinda taking it as a rite of passage and not the horrible bane of every snake keeper's existence that it is. :)

however thank goodness for proper QT procedures!!! the established collection is doing just fine (fresh pics of them coming later today!).

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I would do a all in one yes, I would use the 6 quarts tub treat it and wait a week this way in a week she is ready to feed and I would re-treat again in 2 weeks, usually one treatment is enough but better be safe than sorry.

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thank you so much for your guidance. <3 :hug:

i will be doing just that when i get home. i think i'll be moving her to a more quiet location as well (still following QT), just to keep the stress as low as possible. thank you so much for your time!!!

I haven't dealt with mites, but this is my $0.02.

If the b.pastel is as fiesty as you say and you haven't done any treating/handling for at least the 3 or 4 days up to a feed attempt, I would try to time an offering 2 days before you would have to re-apply the PAM.

I wouldn't put off applying the PAM, so if the timing is poor, then just skip.
I also wouldn't push the issue if you do offer and just give a few minutes to try. (If offering live maybe 3 or 4 minutes in the tub if no strikes, and f/t no more than 2 or 3 re-heats and offers). I don't think a brief attempt would add enough stress to be worried by if he won't take it.

#1 priority should be the mites, but I'd give it a try if your timing allows. Especially since you say this one didn't seem to actually have any mites.

If you decide to skip offering a bit, don't be too worried about the weight.. one of my last acquisitions weighed 60 grams and refused an initial f/t offering, and my live feeder source was out of anything smaller than large rats for the following 2 weeks (offered f/t in its place). Despite the missed meals, she didn't lose any weight. (Ironically after her 1 live meal in week 4, she took F/T the following week with no issue)


I don't know if I would say 6qt is necessary just yet, I probably wouldn't swap over at this point, but if you do swap, definitely give some time to settle before offering. Since Deb says to do it, then that's probably a good call. This just my opinion. :)

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I feel bad for you, best of luck. It’s been over twenty years since I’ve dealt with mites. I would cry, lmao. Hopefully this will be the end of it and soon enough your guy will eat for you. Keep a positive attitude!

Been even longer for me (to have dealt with mites), I'd NOT have been happy-dancing, that's for sure. Mite treatment is first priority over food, IMO too.

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Originally Posted by Sonny1318

I feel bad for you, best of luck. It’s been over twenty years since I’ve dealt with mites. I would cry, lmao. Hopefully this will be the end of it and soon enough your guy will eat for you. Keep a positive attitude!

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i think the end is close, but that means i have to be the most diligent! thanks for the kind words. :)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Been even longer for me (to have dealt with mites), I'd NOT have been happy-dancing, that's for sure. Mite treatment is first priority over food, IMO too.

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lol, no one is "happy-dancing". i just kinda had to laugh at myself since i was just talking about mites on here before the discovery. life is funny like that. :P

Yeah, almost like you jinxed yourself...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Yeah, almost like you jinxed yourself...:rolleyes:

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i blame @craigafrechette LOL (just teasin'!!!)

Good luck Ttaylor, fingers crossed you soon wipe the cycle out and get some food in her.
Just shows how important it is for people to quarentine a new snake in to an established collection, could of been far worse especially if everyone got them

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

i blame @craigafrechette LOL (just teasin'!!!)

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Ouch!!! That one stung!! I knew you blamed me!!!

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

I haven't dealt with mites, but this is my $0.02.

If the b.pastel is as fiesty as you say and you haven't done any treating/handling for at least the 3 or 4 days up to a feed attempt, I would try to time an offering 2 days before you would have to re-apply the PAM.

I wouldn't put off applying the PAM, so if the timing is poor, then just skip.
I also wouldn't push the issue if you do offer and just give a few minutes to try. (If offering live maybe 3 or 4 minutes in the tub if no strikes, and f/t no more than 2 or 3 re-heats and offers). I don't think a brief attempt would add enough stress to be worried by if he won't take it.

#1 priority should be the mites, but I'd give it a try if your timing allows. Especially since you say this one didn't seem to actually have any mites.

If you decide to skip offering a bit, don't be too worried about the weight.. one of my last acquisitions weighed 60 grams and refused an initial f/t offering, and my live feeder source was out of anything smaller than large rats for the following 2 weeks (offered f/t in its place). Despite the missed meals, she didn't lose any weight. (Ironically after her 1 live meal in week 4, she took F/T the following week with no issue)


I don't know if I would say 6qt is necessary just yet, I probably wouldn't swap over at this point, but if you do swap, definitely give some time to settle before offering. Since Deb says to do it, then that's probably a good call. This just my opinion. :)

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thanks for the response! the timing is actually the worst because the second application of PAM should be tonight, which is priority. however, i do have an hour or so to let the room ventilate before moving the animals back, so i think i will thaw a mouse for her and just see how it goes; she's been gaining some confidence as i sometimes catch her out of her hides, so maybe the hunger is starting to win out with her.

we'll just have to wait and see. ill keep this thread updated!

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Ouch!!! That one stung!! I knew you blamed me!!!

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oh hush [emoji39] [emoji3] [emoji177]

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

oh hush [emoji39] [emoji3] [emoji177]

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I'm going to an Expo this Sunday. Hopefully karma is good to me!!

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I'm going to an Expo this Sunday. Hopefully karma is good to me!!

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have fun!!! and no hitchhikers!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did not mention this earlier but if you have not done so already I would highly recommend to treat the rest of your collection preventive as well just in case sometimes even strict quarantine procedures don't stop those little hitch hikers (the the tubs, racks, spray the floor around the racks to create a barrier)

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I did not mention this earlier but if you have not done so already I would highly recommend to treat the rest of your collection preventive as well just in case sometimes even strict quarantine procedures don't stop those little hitch hikers (the the tubs, racks, spray the floor around the racks to create a barrier)

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can i just use the PAM? and how long do you ventilate with using a substrate like Reptichip? im so scared of exposing the snakes up there vapors before they're gone.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

can i just use the PAM? and how long do you ventilate with using a substrate like Reptichip? im so scared of exposing the snakes up there vapors before they're gone.

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Yeah, I'd use PAM for that as well. I usually use it with paper or paper towels, but did do with reptile prime once for preventative on a new snake. As long as it isn't damp substrate, it dried in an hour or two, but I tested by getting my nose up close and giving it a good sniff. If I could smell it at all, I waited more. If the substrate is damp it could take a long time to dry fully.. :/

Maybe scoop some out of a cage and treat it as a test batch to figure out how long it takes?

I'm not sure how to test it is fully dried besides smelling for it.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

can i just use the PAM? and how long do you ventilate with using a substrate like Reptichip? im so scared of exposing the snakes up there vapors before they're gone.

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Yes you can usually I do 12 hours when I pre-treat new incoming animals (obviously this is a plan situation unlike yours), but so long you use as directed give it 30 min/1 hour you are fine. If you have spare clean tubs use those replace the bedding spray and switch the animals to a new clean pre-treated tub.

I know it's a lot of work but being pro-active and a little paranoid could save you from a non stop infestation, remember it only take one mite.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Yes you can usually I do 12 hours when I pre-treat new incoming animals (obviously this is a plan situation unlike yours), but so long you use as directed give it 30 min/1 hour you are fine. If you have spare clean tubs use those replace the bedding spray and switch the animals to a new clean pre-treated tub.

I know it's a lot of work but being pro-active and a little paranoid could save you from a non stop infestation, remember it only take one mite.

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my whole night is going to be cleaning now hahaha. oh well! i just bought some beer. [emoji39]

yes i have fresh tubs i can use and will just use paper towel for now.

i literally just made new reptichip and changed everyone's substrate last night which is a bummer lol, but im debating on dumping it back into the big tub i keep it in and leaving it outside for a few nights (midwest winter here). what do you think, Deb?

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

i literally just made new reptichip and changed everyone's substrate last night which is a bummer lol, but im debating on dumping it back into the big tub i keep it in and leaving it outside for a few nights (midwest winter here). what do you think, Deb?

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Baking will kill mites also, so that's another option.

I think what I read on freezing said that it has to be consistently below freezing for a couple weeks or something.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

my whole night is going to be cleaning now hahaha. oh well! i just bought some beer. [emoji39]

yes i have fresh tubs i can use and will just use paper towel for now.

i literally just made new reptichip and changed everyone's substrate last night which is a bummer lol, but im debating on dumping it back into the big tub i keep it in and leaving it outside for a few nights (midwest winter here). what do you think, Deb?

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Dumping the subtrate they already used for one night into 1 big tub treat and redistribute?

I don't recommend, that's cross contamination ;), just like you always use the same tub same water bow unless you completely bleach it out not just your average cleaning.

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

Baking will kill mites also, so that's another option.

I think what I read on freezing said that it has to be consistently below freezing for a couple weeks or something.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Dumping the subtrate they already used for one night into 1 big tub treat and redistribute?

I don't recommend, that's cross contamination ;), just like you always use the same tub same water bow unless you completely bleach it out not just your average cleaning.

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thank you both so much! it's not worth the work and risk since it's no guarantee.

currently treating the new tubs right now with PAM; will move everyone in a couple hours once dried down.

ugh, if only i had the time to make this post yesterday before i cleaned everyone lol.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

thank you both so much! it's not worth the work and risk since it's no guarantee.

currently treating the new tubs right now with PAM; will move everyone in a couple hours once dried down.

ugh, if only i had the time to make this post yesterday before i cleaned everyone lol.

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Look at the bright side you do not have 100 snakes to treat ;)

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Look at the bright side you do not have 100 snakes to treat ;)

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girl...that's the point when you just cry LOL.

i will say i've already learned a lot from this experience and having to fight mites; i'm trying VERY hard to think of this as a hands-on learning opportunity. [emoji2][emoji2][emoji2]

I JUST REALLY WANT YOU ALL TO KNOW i handled the B.Pastel to transfer her and check her over and NOT. ONE. HISS! no striking! no biting herself! even saw some tongue flicking!!!

once in her 6qt enclosure she came right out to explore and didn't even strike the tub when she noticed me; just curious tongue flicking. PROGRESS!!!

also i accidentally treated the wrong spare bin for the Bamboo (no vent holes lol) so i gotta wait a bit longer.

for the established collection i will treat them tomorrow as ive already started dealing with the QT animals so i don't wanna risk anything.