newbie question

when ball pythons are adults typicaly what size rats do they need>? also which substrate is best

Male or Female?

Most adult males will not outgrow small rats. I think most females end up on medium rats, but some stay on small.

Different people use different substrates, however one that holds humidity is recommended, like Repti Chip, Eco Earth, Reptile Prime, Zoo Med Forest Floor, etc, or a mix of several. Coconut husk-based substrates work well. For a simple and cheap clean up and set up you can use paper towels or butcher paper etc. (however it doesn't help with humidity as far as I know)

Both my male and female adults eat medium rats. The male is a bit smaller than the female (obviously) but he seems to do just fine with them. It just depends on the snake really. They're girth is a good judge I've always thought.

As far as substrate it's already been stated but repti chip is the best imo but Cypress mulch also works well. Good luck!

Nothing over smalls is really needed.
Most people keep their snakes fat....

cool ty you all so much for the info i love my snakes but i also love rats so it isnt easy for me to feed the snakes, ps im wanting a banana morph but im wondering if there as freindly as a common ball python

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Originally Posted by motorcyclecowboy

cool ty you all so much for the info i love my snakes but i also love rats so it isnt easy for me to feed the snakes, ps im wanting a banana morph but im wondering if there as freindly as a common ball python

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I had pet rats long before I ever got into snakes, I hear ya. But the best thing to do is get your snakes eating f/t that have been humanely euthanized.

where should i buy small frozen rats?

I used to have several rats a couple of years ago that I loved you dearly[emoji173]
They were very loving and I enjoyed having them even though their short life span didn't allow me enough time with them.
I currently have a banana morph I've had him about six weeks. He eats Frozen thawed as I would never feed live because that's just not something I would never do. I don't really think it matters what morph it is ; all ball pythons are pretty much docile.... however each one is an individual

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Originally Posted by motorcyclecowboy

where should i buy small frozen rats?

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There are a few sites. My last order came from Cold Blooded Cafe and I’ve used Rodent Pro...both of these have flat rate shipping. There’s also Big Cheese Rodent Factory, Perfect Prey, and Layne Labs. I see that I also saved a link for Reptile Deli, but haven’t used them....probably got it from a thread here.

https://www.coldbloodedcafe.com/

http://www.rodentpro.com/

https://perfectprey.com/

https://www.laynelabs.com/

https://bigcheeserodents.com/

https://www.reptiledeli.com/

I second coldbloodedcafe. They have great packaging and good prices.

i was hoping some company would make fake rats that had the perfect nutrition for snakes.

My male banana morph is about a year old, I think. He is friendly like any other bp. A little more on the shy side as I had friendlier bps bit that is ok. The freckled do become more pronounce as it ages.

I would not feed anything larger than a small rat for adults males. Mine is finishing up his weaned rats which are only a few grams short of a small. Keep in mind that we always will overfeed our snakes in captivity. I don't remember if this is true but I even read that by overfeeding it, it can prompt a natural fast sooner than later. Either way, if you were to go medium, I would add an extra week in its feeding schedule.

And I use Big Cheese for my rodents.

Think of it this way: we eat chicken everyday. They make great pets too. But they make a great protein source for us as well over most red meat. Would you want to eat some weird mystery meat that is chicken shape? Probably not. That is just how things go.

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Originally Posted by Cheesenugget

Would you want to eat some weird mystery meat that is chicken shape? Probably not. That is just how things go.

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Burger King 10 chicken nuggets for a dollar...

LOL:rofl:


and no, I would definitely NOT want to! ;)

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Originally Posted by zina10

Burger King 10 chicken nuggets for a dollar...

LOL:rofl:


and no, I would definitely NOT want to! ;)

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Soylent Green crackers are better than those turds!

my pets eat way better then me lol no wonder why im always broke and i also feed the strays cats on my street even thou i dislike cats im a mess lol

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Nothing over smalls is really needed.
Most people keep their snakes fat....

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My 500 gram eat small rats can’t imagine her being 2000 grams still eating the same size meal, i would consider that maintenance feeding.

As they grow so should their meal size

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While I agree that prey size should increase as they grow, we should always take care not to over feed. If you are going to offer larger prey, then there should be more time between meals. Only Eli, my large normal male is offered medium rats, and those no more than every two weeks. I would say this works well as he’s very healthy and has been since I rescued him 26 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Dianne

While I agree that prey size should increase as they grow, we should always take care not to over feed. If you are going to offer larger prey, then there should be more time between meals. Only Eli, my large normal male is offered medium rats, and those no more than every two weeks. I would say this works well as he’s very healthy and has been since I rescued him 26 years ago.

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I totally agree

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Originally Posted by Scooda954

My 500 gram eat small rats can’t imagine her being 2000 grams still eating the same size meal, i would consider that maintenance feeding.

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All depends how often you offer.....

My adult female gets a medium rat every 2-2 1/2 weeks and she eats very quickly with no issue. My adult male gets a medium rat every 3-3 1/2 weeks. He doesn't eat it as fast but he still gobles it down with no issue. My snakes are by no means obese nor are they too skinny. My female is just under 2100 grams and my male is just over 1900. I agree that small rats is maintenance feeding. They are my pets and I love them so I don't just maintenance feed them.

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Originally Posted by Toad37

My adult female gets a medium rat every 2-2 1/2 weeks and she eats very quickly with no issue. My adult male gets a medium rat every 3-3 1/2 weeks.

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Originally Posted by Toad37

I don't just maintenance feed them.

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So you are saying that feeding one small a week is maintenance feeding?
I don't think some of you understand what it actually means to maintenance feed.....

I won't even get started on the pets comment.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

So you are saying that feeding one small a week is maintenance feeding?
I don't think some of you understand what it actually means to maintenance feed.....

I won't even get started on the pets comment.

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I totally agree with Robert on this one. I've heard that a male Ball Python never needs more than
small rat. And a female can live very well eating smalls and is less likely to turn down meals. Humans
can live eating many small meals a day if they are still getting the needed calories. I also believe snakes eating
small rats are less likely to stop eating like they would with mediums. I know some like feeding medium's
but I have decided I wouldn't go larger than a small size ( not for a ball anyway ) I'll wager Robert doesn't
have much of a problem with refusal eaters.

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Originally Posted by ballpythonsrock2

I'll wager Robert doesn't have much of a problem with refusal eaters.

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I wouldn't make that bet.....
When I bred my own rodents I never had a problem feeding live. After I wanted my life back and switched to f/t broke that half a decade easy feed streak. Since then it has been hit and miss.

btw my snake i was told was very aggressive but he never even struck at me do they get meaner as they get older? btw im guessing its gender

What is the deal with "maintenance feeding" being a dirty word? It does NOT (and should not) mean starvation diet.

It means to MAINTAIN a good weight, not to push rapid growth to get up to size for breeding or just because. Not to feed heavier to help out a females body during the process of building eggs.

I dare say most maintenance diets are still more food then they usually grow up on in the wild.

Ball Pythons bodies are designed to consume as much food as possible for part of the year and then to fast for a long part of the year because during the dry season food is scarce. So when people have a Ball Python that eats like no tomorrow, they think this will go on indefinitely. It does not. There comes a point when their natural cycle kicks in and they know they had enough. Over feeding (which is what most people do, whether on purpose or not) can kick this in sooner and make it last longer. While feeding more conservatively often ends up in an animal taking shorter breaks or sometimes no breaks throughout the year.

Matching prey size to body size works well while they grow. A growing body needs more nutrition. Well, eventually they stop growing so much. While a snake grows all its life technically, it is almost minute once they reach a good adult size. So if you continue to match the rodent to the adult PB size and try to feed weekly or bi weekly, where are those calories supposed to go in a non growing body of a snake that spends 95% of its life hiding somewhere and being sedentary ???

Ball Pythons are ambush hunters unlike some other snakes. They sit and wait. Then they sit and digest. They don't move around very much if all their needs are met, unless they are a seeking out a partner to breed with or to move from one hide to another, since the old one don't work anymore, the smell of their waste giving them away to possible prey wandering by. So as adults they do not need many calories. Unless you feed a breeding female.

And how is it any different to feed an adult a small rat weekly or a medium rat every 2 to 3 weeks ? It isn't really.

Charts are there to give people a guideline. But you have to take into account how Ball Pythons are designed to eat throughout the year and also the individual animal. If they start refusing, back off some in either size or how often you feed. If they are in their ravenous stage, feed weekly. A breeding female, bump the amount of food.

I never have nor will I ever stick to a strict schedule. They are individuals. I have learned just to "listen" to the animal. It doesn't have to be every friday of every week. That is convenience for us. Sometimes I feed every 10 days. Or 14 days. When one starts to refuse, it gets to skip a scheduled feeding, etc. The hatchlings may get food every 5 days if the food item is small and the snakes hungry.

But one thing is for sure, adult BP "pets" (non breeding) SHOULD be fed a maintenance diet. By the true meaning of the word. You should maintain a good weight and size and not keep trying to add to it by throwing calories at them, that they cannot use up. That isn't love. A snake doesn't have to have rolls of fat to be overweight. They get health issues just like any other animal and humans from getting more calories than they use up.

A medium rat every 3 1/2 weeks to a large female is not overfeeding. A small rat weekly to a large female is not under feeding. Sounds like adult maintenance feeding, which is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by motorcyclecowboy

btw my snake i was told was very aggressive but he never even struck at me do they get meaner as they get older? btw im guessing its gender

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They definitely do not get meaner as they get older.

A truly aggressive BP is actually quite rare. Most strikes are either out of defensiveness, usually in hatchlings and young snakes, or a feeding response.

There are some that start out and stay somewhat aggressive. But like I said, that is rare. And sometimes just because the snake has never had a chance to trust that handling will not hurt/kill it.

If you set up your snake with the correct husbandry (tons of info abut that on this forum) and then get it feeding well and handle it every so often, it should be just fine. Learn to read its body language.

Stick around and you will learn all you need to know about these cool snakes :)

Gio's ball python only eats 3 or 4 times a year and is not him starving her, the ball eats this way. And like he said, that snake will get to live 30+ years.

wow thats crazy they can go so long with food

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Originally Posted by motorcyclecowboy

wow thats crazy they can go so long with food

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Supposedly the record fast was by a Royal / Ball Python just over two YEARS !! It was fine ..


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Originally Posted by zincubus

supposedly the record fast was by a royal / ball python just over two years !! It was fine ..


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:o

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Originally Posted by Damselle

:o

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Is there a way of deducing what all these emoticons mean incidentally?

I only ever use smile and never really know how people are reacting ?


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Is there a way of deducing what all these emoticons mean incidentally?

I only ever use smile and never really know how people are reacting ?


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Huh, I was using the sites smilies but that's how it came out... It's surprise.