Metacam by mouth

Slitherz was prescribed Metacam orally for 5 to 7 days. I did exactly what the vet did but it's bubbling some out of his nostril and he's keeping his head elevated now. I called them and explained and they said there shouldn't be anything to worry about and I could bring him in everyday for the treatment or I could wait an hour and try again. That doesn't flow right with me. I'm not aorried he didn't get it all I'm worried that he might get a RI now. They said not to worry. That isn't working because I am.

Any of you have experience with this?

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Basically your vet is the equivalent of a your doctor trying to cure a pneumonia with an aspirin :rolleye2:

Most important is to find a new vet that is experienced with Reptiles, the fact that he prescribe Metacam which is a Anti-Inflammatory/Pain Killer similar to aspirin tells me yours has no clue which is pretty typical.

First a vet will do a culture to established the type of RI you are dealing with, there are different RI which do not all respond the the same anti-biotic.

Second the antibiotic will be injectable (any oral anti-biotic for a snake is simply a waste)

Third the duration of treatment should be 30 days min for a RI

He doesn't have a RI. I just thought he might. They were very thorough. He looked at him all over. Checked his heart, Skin, inside his mouth, nostrils, everything. Listened to his lungs. He said there's no reason to think he has a RI. He prescribed to Metacam as a precautionary measure because once in a while he makes a "huff" sound when going up.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by HeathBish

He doesn't have a RI. I just thought he might. They were very thorough. He looked at him all over. Checked his heart, Skin, inside his mouth, nostrils, everything. Listened to his lungs. He said there's no reason to think he has a RI. He prescribed to Metacam as a precautionary measure because once in a while he makes a "huff" sound when going up.

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He was thinking if he has minor inflammation then this could help but he said he wouldn't worry and if he shows signs of illness then I can bring him back right away. I really believe he knew what he was doing. It really looked like it anyway. Lol

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by HeathBish

He doesn't have a RI. I just thought he might. They were very thorough. He looked at him all over. Checked his heart, Skin, inside his mouth, nostrils, everything. Listened to his lungs. He said there's no reason to think he has a RI. He prescribed to Metacam as a precautionary measure because once in a while he makes a "huff" sound when going up.

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And the equivalent of aspirin would be helpful how if the snake makes a huff???

Again my best advice here is find a new vet if you think there is something wrong with your snake, because there is no reason an animal should be prescribe something unless there is a valid reason and anyone familiar with reptiles (snakes in particular) would know that oral medicine has little to no effect.

Some vets are pretty good has hiding their lack of knowledge, I know one by me that will see exotics and managed to diagnose a friend snake with Septicemia.....the snake was in shed ;)

Metacam is an anti-inflammatory, correct? I would think inflammation could cause a huff noise at times.

Can we just get back to the original question, please. I'm worried the medicine will cause him to become ill because it was bubbling out his nostril. So, I was wondering if anyone had experience with that.

I wasn't questioning their abilities. I just wanted reassurance.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by HeathBish

Metacam is an anti-inflammatory, correct? I would think inflammation could cause a huff noise at times.

Can we just get back to the original question, please. I'm worried the medicine will cause him to become ill because it was bubbling out his nostril. So, I was wondering if anyone had experience with that.

I wasn't questioning their abilities. I just wanted reassurance.

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Unf9rtunately, Deb is right. You're basically giving useless medicine to your snake. Just because the vet seemed "thorough" doesn't mean they're knowledgeable.

I can thoroughly look over a car engine, but don't have a clue what I'm looking at.

Keep in mind, a vets office is a business. Businesses make money by selling products, ie medicine

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Unf9rtunately, Deb is right. You're basically giving useless medicine to your snake. Just because the vet seemed "thorough" doesn't mean they're knowledgeable.

I can thoroughly look over a car engine, but don't have a clue what I'm looking at.

Keep in mind, a vets office is a business. Businesses make money by selling products, ie medicine

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Let me explain... He did the exam. Told me he has no reason to believe he a RI and he looks and feels like a healthy snake. And while I was putting Slitherz back in the cooler he made the noise as he was going up my arm. He said we could try metacam to see if he's got slight inflammation. I agreed to it but he didn't push that I need it. We almost left with nothing.

So should I just not give it and monitor? Could I make him sick by not administering properly? I thought I did it the way he showed me but I must have done something wrong. Obviously. [emoji17]

Im not trying to be mean. Seriously. I'm just worried for him because of the medicine bubbling out hi nostril after I gave it. I'm sorry if I came off as being mean.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by HeathBish

Let me explain... He did the exam. Told me he has no reason to believe he a RI and he looks and feels like a healthy snake. And while I was putting Slitherz back in the cooler he made the noise as he was going up my arm. He said we could try metacam to see if he's got slight inflammation. I agreed to it but he didn't push that I need it. We almost left with nothing.

So should I just not give it and monitor? Could I make him sick by not administering properly? I thought I did it the way he showed me but I must have done something wrong. Obviously. [emoji17]

Im not trying to be mean. Seriously. I'm just worried for him because of the medicine bubbling out hi nostril after I gave it. I'm sorry if I came off as being mean.

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You didn't come off mean at all, just concerned f9r your snake, which is admirable.

I, luckily, have never had a sick snake and have never had to medicate any. But I know that orally medicating a snake is like shoveling sand against the tide.

And quite frankly, I trust Deborah 100000%. I would be willing to bet my house she's more experienced and more knowledgable about snakes than that vet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

You didn't come off mean at all, just concerned f9r your snake, which is admirable.

I, luckily, have never had a sick snake and have never had to medicate any. But I know that orally medicating a snake is like shoveling sand against the tide.

And quite frankly, I trust Deborah 100000%. I would be willing to bet my house she's more experienced and more knowledgable about snakes than that vet.

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Ok. Then I will just stop giving it then. If that's not what I should do then just tell me.

What could that noise be he makes every so often when coming up, then? No discharge, open mouth breathing, wheezing, etc. Seems perfectly healthy besides that. And it's occasional so it's confusing. Lol

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by HeathBish

Ok. Then I will just stop giving it then. If that's not what I should do then just tell me.

What could that noise be he makes every so often when coming up, then? No discharge, open mouth breathing, wheezing, etc. Seems perfectly healthy besides that. And it's occasional so it's confusing. Lol

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Without hearing it I cant really say, but snakes make noises. They fart, breathe, sigh, etc...
So I'm guessing it's nothing worth worrying about.

That being said: I'm not a vet and can't hear it. I would just keep an eye on it and make sure it doesn't get worse or more frequent.

Will do.

Deb... I'm sorry if I came off as being mean. I didn't mean to. I value your opinion and advice. I was just worried he was going to aspirate in front of me or something.

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Many snakes huff, puff, and make noise under exertion. It's perfectly normal. The giants like retics and burms do it more often, but ball pythons will do it occasionally as well.

That's good to know. I always thought any noise besides "hissing" was unnatural and something to worry about.

Thanks!

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HeathBish, is this vet listed as an exotics vet? how much experience (years in practice) does he/she have treating snakes? (did you ask or try to find out?)
It's really important, because meds that are safe to use for snakes are mostly NOT the same as for typical pets (dogs, cats, etc). Some vets are willing to
try (despite a lack of experience) either because they truly want to help you & your pet, OR because they make money for doing something, even if it's wrong.
Well-meaning but inexperienced vets can & do cause harm if they don't know what they're doing.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

HeathBish, is this vet listed as an exotics vet? how much experience (years in practice) does he/she have treating snakes? (did you ask or try to find out?)
It's really important, because meds that are safe to use for snakes are mostly NOT the same as for typical pets (dogs, cats, etc). Some vets are willing to
try (despite a lack of experience) either because they truly want to help you & your pet, OR because they make money for doing something, even if it's wrong.
Well-meaning but inexperienced vets can & do cause harm if they don't know what they're doing.

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Yes. They are. I was referred by the owner of an exotic pet store. It's Specialized Care for Avian and Exotic Pets in Clarence NY. The vet had the heat warmer on so he was comfortable while on the table. He knew exactly how to open his mouth, give him the medicine, and first try found his heartbeat and we listened to it. And like I said he didn't push anything he said "we could try. " I kept saying I wish he would make the noise blah blah so maybe he did it to make me feel better. I don't know. I do know they said I can come in for injections instead or bring the oral med and they can give it to him for me.

I like to think positively. I'm not a Dr but do have a medical background and didn't get any bad vibes and everythi g he did was fluid and smooth moving. Also there were other patients from turtles to birds and ferrets and I talked with some of the owners and they had nothing but good stuff to say. No other snake parents though.

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Oral meds for a snake can be really frustrating. I did orals for one of mine for a bout of septicemia. There was no way to order the proper injectable meds to start treatment for at least a week, most likely two because of some distributor shortage at the time... So we went the old fashioned way.

Snakes are like kids who hate the taste of cough syrup. They will drool and protest. Lizards take meds much easier.

Having an extra set of hands to help manage the back end while you work the front is great. What worked best for me was keeping his head slightly elevated so he could swallow, but not too high where if he drooled he would aspirate too much too quickly. And not let him droop so he dribbled meds out. And keep them at that level for a few minutes until they stop fussing over the taste and settle down.

That said.... yes, metacam is a great anti inflammatory even though it smells like ferret musk. Lol. I've used it in lizards, mammals and birds before, but never a snake. So not sure on things there myself...

I have a snake that will huff like that when grabbing on and straining themselves for a climb or better grip. It could have just been positional. If it had been my snake, I would probably take the meds just in case, but monitor my snake a bit more first.

As someone else mentioned, snakes can be pretty noisy at times! Is this a new snake for you? Sometimes just a little notepad and observations can help keep track when you notice the sounds.

2 of mine are 'talkers' and one just gets 'frustrated.
2 will huff and puff up when handled, spooked or when I check in on them. One is a big hisser too, the other was when being medicated for burns but had warmed up after healing up well. Because of that, I expect some noise from those two when working near them. I do keep watch for other signs or if the sounds seem different tho, just in case.
My big boy just seems to get frustrated when he starts to roam his habitat. Usually it's when he stretches up to sniff at the mesh lid, he lets out a big sigh before moving on to the next spot. He's the one that sometimes give a good sigh when adjusting himself when wrapped on my arm as well.

In the case of one of my geckos.... he constantly makes popping sounds when handled or excited. Sometimes he'll take a quick gasp as well. Not because he has an upper respiratory, but because he has very small nostrils. Not sure what the reason for it was, but he's fine otherwise.

Observation is a big part of keeping these guys healthy. So it's great to notice something like that. Sometimes it's not the big bad we worry about. Just a little quirk. I hope that's the case for you noodle!
Obviously, if anything else seems off or lethargy kicks in, another trip to the vet would be in order.

Also... adding in as well just in case!

Your baby might refuse food for 2 weeks after the meds. Just because of the hassle with the oral meds and such. Or the way it makes thier mouth and belly feel.

Don't offer food while medicating because the handling needed is just asking for a regurge. Offering food 3 or 4 days after the last dose you give is fine, but the baby may still refuse it.

He's new to me. I pretty much rescued him at the end of October. My daughter said she noticed this when we first got him and I hadn't so I guess he's been doing this. We handle him together but she will usually get him out while I spot check, etc so I missed it at first.

I didn't give it to him yesterday because I scared myself out of it. I had it all ready and something made me stop and not do it. When the vet gave it to him he made it look so easy. He said to watch for a couple swallows and then let him go and do what he wants. He swallowed so obviously at the vet and no issues. Then this disaster. I'm afraid I'm going to make him sick if this keeps happening when I give it to him. I did notice he didn't make the said noise yesterday when we had him out. I don't know if there's any corralation.

I'm struggling with to give or not to give lol. As mentioned above he isn't showing any signs or symptoms of illness. The noise just scared me because I didn't think they make noises.

Thank you for your help. It's nice to have these different views and opinions. Happy New Year!

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

Also... adding in as well just in case!

Your baby might refuse food for 2 weeks after the meds. Just because of the hassle with the oral meds and such. Or the way it makes thier mouth and belly feel.

Don't offer food while medicating because the handling needed is just asking for a regurge. Offering food 3 or 4 days after the last dose you give is fine, but the baby may still refuse it.

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I was actually wondering about this because he's supposed to eat tomorrow. I don't know if I will continue the med right now and see what happens but if I do then I'll wait to feed him. Maybe I'll give it a week after the last dose. What are your thoughts on holding the med?

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Is there any way you could try to get that noise/behavior on video and share with us ?

If you went to a reptile experienced vet and he found nothing wrong with your snake, that is encouraging. I do question why he would then give you any medicine at all, though, esp. if you aren't experienced in giving the medicine, as its possible to injure (and certainly to stress) a snake if done wrong.

Its always a good idea to have a little basic health care kit for reptiles at the house. I have never needed mine in recent years, but if I ever should, its here. I have a clean glass dropper for administering oral meds. I do not like to administer those in syringes. Syringes have relatively sharp edges that could get scraped along the tissue in the mouth/neck.
I have these tools which help to hold a snakes mouth open gently, while giving access to it. Its really not needed just for administering oral medicines, because that is relatively quick, but it does help if the mouth needs to be open for a really good look or to clean/treat an area of concern.

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...e/download.jpg


Years ago, before I moved, I used to do rescue for quite a few snakes. Usually imported Ball Pythons that were in really, really bad condition. They usually had more then just one problem. And almost all of them needed oral meds (as well as shots). The oral meds were usually for parasites and protozoans.

The Vet I had back then was wonderful. Very patient and truly cared for all his patients including reptiles. He is very experienced with snakes. He showed me exactly how to hold them and how to administer the meds. There may be different ways, and some like a different way, but I have had nothing but good luck with this way. Never had a snake aspirate any of the meds or have it come back up. Medicine bubbling out through the nostrils means the snake breathed in some of the meds.

Whenever getting ready to treat any snake, preparation is key. Find a place where you can sit down comfortably and have all the supplies in easy reach. I find sitting at a table best. Settle the snake on your lap, wrapping a towel around its body can help (leaving the neck and head free). When you have everything ready and within reach, gently but firmly grasp the snake by the neck, your thumb and forefinger will hold it right behind the head/jaw. Your fist and other fingers will keep the neck straight. The snake will start to struggle. It helps to use your lower arm of the hand that you hold the neck with to push down on the body of the snake gently, to keep it in place. Follow its movements slightly, but never loose your grip and keep that neck straight. (firm but gentle, don't squeeze it) I like to use a glass dropper like I said, it has smooth edges. Use it to gently pry the mouth open, might take a couple tries. Stay calm and patient. Once open, slide it into the mouth and a bit down into the throat.That is why it is important to keep the neck straight. Make sure you have good light and that you see where the dropper is going. By sliding it down slightly (I used to do one to one and a half inch), you will make sure it goes past the glottis and you aren't accidentally pushing the medicine into the lungs. Push the medicine in, withdraw the dropper and allow the snake to close its mouth, but keep the head and neck elevated for a little while, but loosen your grip and only slightly support it, the snake will relax some and swallow, keeping the medicine down.

It does take practice. It takes a lot of patience. You have to be calm.

If its medicine that really isn't needed, I wouldn't put the snake through the stress and possible injury to administer it. The snake resting with the head elevated and the medicine coming out of the nostrils means some of it got aspirated. Hopefully it was just a small amount and the snake blew it out.

Here are a couple of pictures that show how I hold a snake that needs oral meds...


This is the way they are in my lap and I have the neck/head in a grip , and up at a angle, holding the neck straight. My thumb and the side of my forefinger would be resting right behind the jaw/head.

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...ebsize/3_5.jpg


This just shows the underside of my hand, how I use the other fingers and fist to keep the neck straight


http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...ebsize/2_4.jpg


And once more, the angle I hold it in, having the body of the snake wrapped up into a big towel or blanket can help, so they don't flail all around with their body. Remember you can let them move some, follow the movement, but that neck and head stays straight.

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...ebsize/1_4.jpg


I would get in touch with that vet and tell him you have trouble administering the medicine and that the snake had it bubbling out of its mouth. Ask if the vet feels the payoff of taking it is worth the stress/risk of either you keep doing it or subjecting the snake to the frequent trips for the vet to do it.

There are issues where it absolutely IS necessary, but I'm not sure it is in your case ? However, I'm not a vet.

I would still like to see a video, if possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

Is there any way you could try to get that noise/behavior on video and share with us ?

If you went to a reptile experienced vet and he found nothing wrong with your snake, that is encouraging. I do question why he would then give you any medicine at all, though, esp. if you aren't experienced in giving the medicine, as its possible to injure (and certainly to stress) a snake if done wrong.

Its always a good idea to have a little basic health care kit for reptiles at the house. I have never needed mine in recent years, but if I ever should, its here. I have a clean glass dropper for administering oral meds. I do not like to administer those in syringes. Syringes have relatively sharp edges that could get scraped along the tissue in the mouth/neck.
I have these tools which help to hold a snakes mouth open gently, while giving access to it. Its really not needed just for administering oral medicines, because that is relatively quick, but it does help if the mouth needs to be open for a really good look or to clean/treat an area of concern.

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...e/download.jpg


Years ago, before I moved, I used to do rescue for quite a few snakes. Usually imported Ball Pythons that were in really, really bad condition. They usually had more then just one problem. And almost all of them needed oral meds (as well as shots). The oral meds were usually for parasites and protozoans.

The Vet I had back then was wonderful. Very patient and truly cared for all his patients including reptiles. He is very experienced with snakes. He showed me exactly how to hold them and how to administer the meds. There may be different ways, and some like a different way, but I have had nothing but good luck with this way. Never had a snake aspirate any of the meds or have it come back up. Medicine bubbling out through the nostrils means the snake breathed in some of the meds.

Whenever getting ready to treat any snake, preparation is key. Find a place where you can sit down comfortably and have all the supplies in easy reach. I find sitting at a table best. Settle the snake on your lap, wrapping a towel around its body can help (leaving the neck and head free). When you have everything ready and within reach, gently but firmly grasp the snake by the neck, your thumb and forefinger will hold it right behind the head/jaw. Your fist and other fingers will keep the neck straight. The snake will start to struggle. It helps to use your lower arm of the hand that you hold the neck with to push down on the body of the snake gently, to keep it in place. Follow its movements slightly, but never loose your grip and keep that neck straight. (firm but gentle, don't squeeze it) I like to use a glass dropper like I said, it has smooth edges. Use it to gently pry the mouth open, might take a couple tries. Stay calm and patient. Once open, slide it into the mouth and a bit down into the throat.That is why it is important to keep the neck straight. Make sure you have good light and that you see where the dropper is going. By sliding it down slightly (I used to do one to one and a half inch), you will make sure it goes past the glottis and you aren't accidentally pushing the medicine into the lungs. Push the medicine in, withdraw the dropper and allow the snake to close its mouth, but keep the head and neck elevated for a little while, but loosen your grip and only slightly support it, the snake will relax some and swallow, keeping the medicine down.

It does take practice. It takes a lot of patience. You have to be calm.

If its medicine that really isn't needed, I wouldn't put the snake through the stress and possible injury to administer it. The snake resting with the head elevated and the medicine coming out of the nostrils means some of it got aspirated. Hopefully it was just a small amount and the snake blew it out.

Here are a couple of pictures that show how I hold a snake that needs oral meds...


This is the way they are in my lap and I have the neck/head in a grip , and up at a angle, holding the neck straight. My thumb and the side of my forefinger would be resting right behind the jaw/head.

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...ebsize/3_5.jpg


This just shows the underside of my hand, how I use the other fingers and fist to keep the neck straight


http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...ebsize/2_4.jpg


And once more, the angle I hold it in, having the body of the snake wrapped up into a big towel or blanket can help, so they don't flail all around with their body. Remember you can let them move some, follow the movement, but that neck and head stays straight.

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...ebsize/1_4.jpg


I would get in touch with that vet and tell him you have trouble administering the medicine and that the snake had it bubbling out of its mouth. Ask if the vet feels the payoff of taking it is worth the stress/risk of either you keep doing it or subjecting the snake to the frequent trips for the vet to do it.

There are issues where it absolutely IS necessary, but I'm not sure it is in your case ? However, I'm not a vet.

I would still like to see a video, if possible.

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I called and spoke with the office. The assistant that was in the room with us took my message and talked to a different vet. The one we saw wasn't there. I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if he thinks it's worth it. That's a great idea. Thanks so much for all your help and the photos. I'll try and get a video later when I get home from work. It's really shallow so it may not pick it up or he may not make the noise. He didn't yesterday. I'll try my best though. :)

Thank you, again!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by HeathBish

I called and spoke with the office. The assistant that was in the room with us took my message and talked to a different vet. The one we saw wasn't there. I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if he thinks it's worth it. That's a great idea. Thanks so much for all your help and the photos. I'll try and get a video later when I get home from work. It's really shallow so it may not pick it up or he may not make the noise. He didn't yesterday. I'll try my best though. :)

Thank you, again!

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Keep us up to date. Good luck with the video. See if you catch it, if not don't stress (yourself, or the snake ;) )

For some reason I can't upload the video but it didn't have the noise anyway. He was just really cute. Lol

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I think what you have to do is upload it to youtube and then post a link to it :)

I bet he was cute :)

Ok. I'll try that. :)

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https://youtu.be/7TW7wK2c31M

I did it! Now I know for the future. I just thought the ending was super cute. He was saying hi to mama. [emoji16]

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Awww...

What a beautiful and BIG boy !! Looks very healthy and vibrant.

Such a good boy, too :)

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Originally Posted by zina10

Awww...

What a beautiful and BIG boy !! Looks very healthy and vibrant.

Such a good boy, too :)

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Aww thanks. I shortened the first one but this is the whole video... if you're bored lol The quality isn't that great for some reason. But he's cute either way. I love his little face and eyes. Bestill my heart [emoji179]

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https://youtu.be/T3bfiHr7Vec

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What a sweet heart !!!

I don't see anything concerning. He certainly has good muscle tone and he is using his body as he should. Don't see any weakness, no erratic movements. His nostrils are clear, he is using his tongue normal. He just looks healthy/vibrant. He is in perfect body condition for a male.

Honestly, so far I see no reason for meds. But I'm not there..and I'm no vet.

As long as he is eating for you, keeps looking well and has no worsening of symptoms or new ones popping up, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Just keep the husbandry as perfect as possible and enjoy your boy :)

Such a calm and inquisitive boy. Not stressed or shy acting at all. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

What a sweet heart !!!

I don't see anything concerning. He certainly has good muscle tone and he is using his body as he should. Don't see any weakness, no erratic movements. His nostrils are clear, he is using his tongue normal. He just looks healthy/vibrant. He is in perfect body condition for a male.

Honestly, so far I see no reason for meds. But I'm not there..and I'm no vet.

As long as he is eating for you, keeps looking well and has no worsening of symptoms or new ones popping up, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Just keep the husbandry as perfect as possible and enjoy your boy :)

Such a calm and inquisitive boy. Not stressed or shy acting at all. :)

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He's so good now. At first he would huff at us if you remember. He doesn't anymore. I thought for sure after giving him the medicine he would but he didn't. I'm going to hold off on the med. It doesn't expire for a while so if he does show any more signs or symptoms I'll just take him right in. I'll bring the medicine with me if the time comes. He's supposed to eat tomorrow so hopefully he does. This whole ordeal doesn't seem to have scarred him lol. Poor guy. He's all like I'm fine lady leave me alone. And I'm all #helicoptermomming [emoji23]

I appreciate you Zina. Always look forward to your words of wisdom and updates on your babes.

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OMG, that is right, he was the huff and puffer !!!

Now look at him. As sweet as can be. So proud of you for having hung in there with him.

All good things take time and effort. So worth it, isn't it :)