BP: Feeding Issues (Normal Fast vs Old Frozen Rats)

Sorry for the millionth post on BP feeding issues. It seems like we all have them. Mine has never been a consistent eater and the latest drought doesn't have me too worried but I'm always questioning if it's par for the course with a 2 year old adult male or is there another factor involved such as the FT has been stored for too long in the freezer.

He hasn't eaten for almost 2 months and up until this week he wouldn't even come out of his hide when presented w/ food using the hairdryer technique. I was feeding my BOA two nights ago and the BP perked up like he was 'ready for food'. I felt so bad because I didn't have any ready for him so I made sure the next night I had a FT Rat waiting for him. I heated it up and he WAS READY TO GO. Head Cocked and Out of His hide....and then NOTHING. Almost like it didn't smell right so he passed on it. Left it in his cage and it was still there this morning.

The feeders are about 7 months old and stored in a ziplock bag in the freezer. Do you think they may not be 'fresh' enough for the BP? I haven't noticed any smells other then when I heat them up but I'm willing to order new ones if that might do the trick.

One other note which may or may not be a factor, he hasn't eaten since I moved my new male BOA to the same room and his enclosure was moved to a new spot in the room (on top of the Boa enclosure).

Just checked again tonight and he's very alert and looks to be in feed mode. Something I haven't seen in months. So I don't know if he's playing games with his current feeding supply or if they aren't fresh enough, etc..... Regardless, I'll wait another week to try again. Just not sure if I should pull from the same supply or order new.

I would order new

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Also noving them can affect their eating.....some BPs are really difficult.
Try everything then take for a vet visit if no luck

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I would suspect the prey doesn’t smell fresh enough. If you vacuum seal the prey, it lasts longer and stays fresher. When I’ve used just the ziplock bags, I’ve seen ice crystals form on the mice and rats. It isn’t freezer burn per se, but I’d be surprised if it doesn’t effect smell and/or taste...not that I plan to lick any to find out. ;) If I vacuum seal the rats, I don’t have that issue with the ice on the rodents. It’s also handy for thawing in water because the rats stay dry but can still be submerged.

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Originally Posted by Dianne

I would suspect the prey doesn’t smell fresh enough. If you vacuum seal the prey, it lasts longer and stays fresher. When I’ve used just the ziplock bags, I’ve seen ice crystals form on the mice and rats. It isn’t freezer burn per se, but I’d be surprised if it doesn’t effect smell and/or taste...not that I plan to lick any to find out. ;) If I vacuum seal the rats, I don’t have that issue with the ice on the rodents. It’s also handy for thawing in water because the rats stay dry but can still be submerged.

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Interesting points Dianne. Do you vacuum seal individually or a couple at a time? I have a vacuum sealer for food but never thought of it for frozen prey.

The best is sealing individually, unless you regularly feed a couple snakes at the same time...then seal those together.

I think the room changes may be the culprit here, or maybe both issues (plus winter!). If this is the only "symptom" you're seeing, I wouldn't run to the vet.

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

Interesting points Dianne. Do you vacuum seal individually or a couple at a time? I have a vacuum sealer for food but never thought of it for frozen prey.

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It depends on the prey size what grouping I do. For the xl rats for my redtail, I either seal them by themselves as one serving, or more often I add the 2 medium rats for my Colombian rainbow and normal bp since they are all on the same schedule. The small rats get sealed in pairs (2 snakes on these) and the weanling rats will either be pairs or small groups of 4-6 that I open as needed (2 snakes on these). The mice I group by how many I expect to feed at one time (currently 8 per bag for that group of snakes).

When I seal per expected feeding group, it makes dropping them in a container of water for thawing easy. The only drawback is if there’s a snake in shed which means I either have to open, separate, and reseal or risk wasting a rat. I don’t worry as much about not using the mice as there is typically someone willing to eat an extra mouse.

As a side note, I use my vacuum sealer for food as well. It just gets wiped down with either rubbing alcohol or disinfecting cleaner after I use it on rodents. Realistically there isn’t anything that gets on the machine from the rats, its just my own internal ick factor at play. lol

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

The best is sealing individually, unless you regularly feed a couple snakes at the same time...then seal those together.

I think the room changes may be the culprit here, or maybe both issues (plus winter!). If this is the only "symptom" you're seeing, I wouldn't run to the vet.

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Noted on sealing individually. The enclosure is still in the same room but moved from opposite walls and now it's closer to a heating unit and now at eye level instead of closer to the floor.

I agree that the Vet isn't probably the right call here. And hopefully it won't get to that point.

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Originally Posted by Dianne

It depends on the prey size what grouping I do. For the xl rats for my redtail, I either seal them by themselves as one serving, or more often I add the 2 medium rats for my Colombian rainbow and normal bp since they are all on the same schedule. The small rats get sealed in pairs (2 snakes on these) and the weanling rats will either be pairs or small groups of 4-6 that I open as needed (2 snakes on these). The mice I group by how many I expect to feed at one time (currently 8 per bag for that group of snakes).

When I seal per expected feeding group, it makes dropping them in a container of water for thawing easy. The only drawback is if there’s a snake in shed which means I either have to open, separate, and reseal or risk wasting a rat. I don’t worry as much about not using the mice as there is typically someone willing to eat an extra mouse.

As a side note, I use my vacuum sealer for food as well. It just gets wiped down with either rubbing alcohol or disinfecting cleaner after I use it on rodents. Realistically there isn’t anything that gets on the machine from the rats, its just my own internal ick factor at play. lol

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Sounds very well thought out Dianne. I only have two snakes so sealing individually might be the way to go for me. I might have to hide the thought of using my food saver for mice/rats from the wife ;)

A few months ago I went out and bought a Vacuum Sealer just for my rats... is the best thing I've ever done :D

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

Sounds very well thought out Dianne. I only have two snakes so sealing individually might be the way to go for me. I might have to hide the thought of using my food saver for mice/rats from the wife ;)

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With just two snakes, individually is the way to go. I currently have 13, and planning on #14 next year. That “should” do it...but I also said that 4 snakes ago. :D

Edit: We won’t tell your wife. ;)

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

The feeders are about 7 months old and stored in a ziplock bag in the freezer. Do you think they may not be 'fresh' enough for the BP? I haven't noticed any smells other then when I heat them up but I'm willing to order new ones if that might do the trick.

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7 months with only a ziploc? i think yes, these feeders have lost their scent.

the behavior you describe seems to agree with that as well: the snake clearly smells prey, but is likely "confused" when the wiggly thing in front of him doesn't smell stronger, so he doesn't strike. Yellow exhibited the same behavior before i bought new feeders (along with regular refusals tho he seemed hungry).

i say bite the bullet and get new feeders. i guarantee you'll come back to say "I'VE NEVER SEEN HIM STRIKE SO QUICKLY" ;)

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

7 months with only a ziploc? i think yes, these feeders have lost their scent.

the behavior you describe seems to agree with that as well: the snake clearly smells prey, but is likely "confused" when the wiggly thing in front of him doesn't smell stronger, so he doesn't strike. Yellow exhibited the same behavior before i bought new feeders (along with regular refusals tho he seemed hungry).

i say bite the bullet and get new feeders. i guarantee you'll come back to say "I'VE NEVER SEEN HIM STRIKE SO QUICKLY" ;)

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Thanks tttaylorrr!! I think and hope you're right. The problem is that none of the big name carriers are shipping during the holidays so my little guy may need to try again w/ his current stash or wait until after the holidays.

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

Thanks tttaylorrr!! I think and hope you're right. The problem is that none of the big name carriers are shipping during the holidays so my little guy may need to try again w/ his current stash or wait until after the holidays.

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bummer! i had no idea. no place local either?

either way, i'm sure he'll be fine until you can get new feeders.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

bummer! i had no idea. no place local either?

either way, i'm sure he'll be fine until you can get new feeders.

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I guess I could try Petsmart to see what kind of Rat sizes they carry. He's currently on weaned rats.

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

I guess I could try Petsmart to see what kind of Rat sizes they carry. He's currently on weaned rats.

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how much does he weigh? PetSmart doesn't carry anything close to a weaned rat size; mine only carry small and medium sizes. if he's around ~450g he could likely handle a small rat.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

how much does he weigh? PetSmart doesn't carry anything close to a weaned rat size; mine only carry small and medium sizes. if he's around ~450g he could likely handle a small rat.

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He's around 500 grams and has been eating weaned rats. I'll take a look and see how big the smalls are at PetSmart.

With your current feeders, have you tried just pinching (damaging a little) the rodent's nose (like with your feeding tongs)? A good hard squeeze will release a little
more scent & may be just enough to get him to grab it.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

With your current feeders, have you tried just pinching (damaging a little) the rodent's nose (like with your feeding tongs)? A good hard squeeze will release a little
more scent & may be just enough to get him to grab it.

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I haven’t tried that but I did briefly dip the rat in a container of old mouse bedding right before offering. I’ll try your technique next week. Thanks.

Well I decided to go with the advice of the majority on here and buy some new feeders (thinking the ones in the freezer may have been too old > 6 mos). Since the majority of online feeder stores were closed for the holidays, I picked up two small f/t rats from petsmart which are a little larger then the weaned rats I've been using. My BPs nose perked up when I offered but he hesitated to strike. It was only when I gradually started to pull the prey away that he followed me outside of the enclosure and focused his attention to where the tongs were holding the tail. It's almost like he needed to see the rats body attached to a tail before he struck. Regardless, it worked and he struck and immediately tried to pull it back into his hide. I left the room with the rats body hanging out of the hide. I'll check on him tomorrow. If all is good, I'll go ahead and order some more; making sure to individually seal each one to retain it's freshness. First feeding in well over two months!!!!!!

Meanwhile my BOA ate which was no big surprise. Never a game with him ;)

Late to this post.

Been a busy bee over the holidays.

I date my rodents when they arrive vacuum sealed and when I open the seal and bag them in “freezer” ziplock bags.

My rule of thumb is 1 to 1 1/2 years max vacuum sealed and no more than 6 months ziplocked.

Medium rats come in ten packs and between Behira and Shayna they last about 2-3 months max in ziplock.

The other 4 snakes eat similar sizes or more often so I rarely waste much.

I also feed off mouse pinkies as an occasional treat to Frank, the Blue tongue skink.

Either way, not surprised a “picky” BP had issues with older rats. Boas and colubrids don’t seem to care as much, but I still limit to 6 months max.

Frankly, it wouldn’t shock me, if Shayna, my food snob/picky BP, asked for grey poupon with her rat!

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Originally Posted by dakski

Frankly, it wouldn’t shock me, if Shayna, my food snob/picky BP, asked for grey poupon with her rat!

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Too funny but actually true when you think about how many factors come into play with some of these finicky BPs when feeding. Good tips on sorting out the prey when it's delivered. I'm definitely going to go this route.

I'm lucky enough that I can buy small and medium rats locally at good prices so I only really buy a months worth of rats at a time. But, when I was buying bulk shipments I typically zaccum sealed them in groups of 4, which was a month worth of meals for one snake.

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I’m both speechless and ecstatic now. My extremely picky male BP nailed his 1st small f/t rat two weeks ago after a long two month drought. I decided to trade in some ‘old’ rats for some PetSmart rats which did the trick. I was hesitant to push my luck and try again tonight and he nailed the rat again!!! Keep this up and he might finally put on some weight.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...be3ff14175.jpg


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Is he a banana glow?

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Originally Posted by Jellybeans

Is he a banana glow?

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No, he’s a Toffino (or Candino).

Shows what I know. Lol!
In the picture he kind of resembles my boyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ae3ae6aedb.jpg

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Originally Posted by Jellybeans

Shows what I know. Lol!
In the picture he kind of resembles my boyhttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ae3ae6aedb.jpg

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Stunning animal! I’m far from an expert but they look almost identical to me.

I'm sure they're related somehow through the gene pool

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Congratulations! Nothing like getting them to feed after a fast. :)

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Originally Posted by Dianne

Congratulations! Nothing like getting them to feed after a fast. :)

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Thanks Dianne. I was a little unsure how to get him back in his cage when he was coiled like that. A quick tap with my snake hook and he snapped back like a tape measure into his hide while holding the rat;)

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

Thanks Dianne. I was a little unsure how to get him back in his cage when he was coiled like that. A quick tap with my snake hook and he snapped back like a tape measure into his hide while holding the rat;)

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" back in his cage " ??


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

" back in his cage " ??


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Yes, as you can tell by the picture, he shot out of his enclosure striking the rat and just stayed their coiled until I tapped him.