Show me your (adult and baby) blue-eyed lucies!

Hi guys! My first snake, Ignis, has been an absolute dream so far, and I suspect there's a non-zero probability that I will be getting another BP soon (most likely at the Pomona Reptile Super Show in January). My original plan had actually been for a BEL - before Iggy wiggled onto the scene and stole my heart - but I am curious about the variation amongst BELs depending on their gene combos. I see babies with all sorts of "bonus features," from purple heads to pale yellow dorsal stripes, as well as differences in how blue their eyes look. On the other hand, I have been told that as they grow into adulthood, BELs will all eventually reach that uniform all-white look.

So with that said, I'd love to see your photos of your lovely blue-eyed lucies, young and old! If you could note their age, as well as their particular gene combo if you happen to know, that would be incredibly helpful too.

[As a side note, I'm not talking about black-eyed lucies (or the elusive "red-eyed lucy"/Cherry Bomb) ... but I certainly won't object if you want to show off pics of those as well!]

Those with purple head are Super Mojave they keep that dirty look throughout their lives.

Those with yellow stripping sometimes have something else in it.

If you are a pure white snake you want a Mojave X Lesser Cross or a Super Lesser (now you need to watch out since many Super Lesser or Super Butter have bug eyes).

I have a Hypo Super Mojave so the head is slightly grey (not as grey as Super Mojave due to the hypo gene) and the body is clean white (super mojave then to yellow out with the years)

http://i68.tinypic.com/219z8nk.jpg

This is a Russo White Diamond and yes they have a dorsal stripe in the correct light you just can’t see in this picture. They also have a dirty color until about a-year-old or depending on their growth
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3d670c1f98.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c209c1fe19.jpg


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Technically Zelda counts. Is a double Merle Gene Great Dane. Although she is blind from birth and eyes under developed they are blue. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4a35f728a2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7d451bfb7c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0bf117ea58.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e76ca5c753.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...745abfb182.jpg

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Those with purple head are Super Mojave they keep that dirty look throughout their lives.

Those with yellow stripping sometimes have something else in it.

If you are a pure white snake you want a Mojave X Lesser Cross or a Super Lesser (now you need to watch out since many Super Lesser or Super Butter have bug eyes).

I have a Hypo Super Mojave so the head is slightly grey (not as grey as Super Mojave due to the hypo gene) and the body is clean white (super mojave then to yellow out with the years)

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Thanks Deborah, super helpful info! (And your snake is beautiful!) So this summarizes my understanding so far:
- Lesser Mojave = all white
- Super Lesser = all white, but prone to bug eyes
- Super Mojave = purple/gray head (retained into adulthood), possible mild yellowing with age
- Hypo Super Mojave = the hypo lightens the purple/gray head, and reduces the body yellowing back to white

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

This is a Russo White Diamond and yes they have a dorsal stripe in the correct light you just can’t see in this picture. They also have a dirty color until about a-year-old or depending on their growth

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What a good-looking snake! I do recall seeing that the BELs on Morph Market that had the yellow dorsal stripe all had Russo in them too (they were Mystic Russos). If my understanding is correct, a White Diamond is a Super Russo, right? So it sounds like Russo probably creates the stripe when added to any BEL complex.

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

Technically Zelda counts. Is a double Merle Gene Great Dane. Although she is blind from birth and eyes under developed they are blue.

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Aww, sweet girl! Not a snake of course, but I love dogs too, so Zelda is welcome to be an honorary participant in this thread, haha.

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

What a good-looking snake! I do recall seeing that the BELs on Morph Market that had the yellow dorsal stripe all had Russo in them too (they were Mystic Russos). If my understanding is correct, a White Diamond is a Super Russo, right? So it sounds like Russo probably creates the stripe when added to any BEL complex.

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Yup Super Russo. I’m not into how the genes work but several are here. Im just a Old School Python Keeper and bought her from Vin Russo here in NY. [emoji106][emoji2533][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216]


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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

Yup Super Russo. I’m not into how the genes work but several are here. Im just a Old School Python Keeper and bought her from Vin Russo here in NY. [emoji106][emoji2533][emoji216][emoji216][emoji216]


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That's really cool! How old is your White Diamond? I was actually just reading through a thread that described how Vin Russo first produced the White Diamond from a pair of his "Lemon Ball" snakes, which now would be called Russo morphs (shorter than saying/writing "Russo line het leucistic") in deference to his work.

I will try to get a decent photo of Arya, our Mojave Lesser, after she sheds. She's due to shed any day now. She isn't the easiest snake to get a shot of, as she doesn't stay still and has honestly been kind of a ***** lately. But she's beautiful and was one of my bucket list BP's. :)

can i ask you guys:

i want a nice white 0.1 BEL, and am terrified of getting a snake that will yellow out (only because we're talking BEL here).

is Lesser x Mojave the only Tried and True(TM)? are there examples of that specific combo yellowing out?

just taking advantage of the topic; thank you guys!

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

I will try to get a decent photo of Arya, our Mojave Lesser, after she sheds. She's due to shed any day now. She isn't the easiest snake to get a shot of, as she doesn't stay still and has honestly been kind of a ***** lately. But she's beautiful and was one of my bucket list BP's. :)

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Haha, I'd love to see pics of Arya, if she's willing to cooperate!

Yukon, my 4 year old super lesser male!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2zso1_1280.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2zso3_1280.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...pf3o1_1280.jpg

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

can i ask you guys:

i want a nice white 0.1 BEL, and am terrified of getting a snake that will yellow out (only because we're talking BEL here).

is Lesser x Mojave the only Tried and True(TM)? are there examples of that specific combo yellowing out?

just taking advantage of the topic; thank you guys!

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Super lesser don't yellow out... I've seen some photos online that look like some lesser mojave almost have a very faint yellow dorsal.

For example, the one in this thread: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-lesser-mojave
Even a few of the lesser mojaves on wobp have that yellow dorsal: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/lesser-mojave/
It even looks like it has a faint yellow hue on the belly and scales overall too, which is weird.

Super lessers though are as snow white as possible! Just be aware of some having overly bugged eyes.

I just checked morphmarket since I was curious, and even some of the ones there have an obvious yellow on their back too. So yeah, it seems kind of common for lesser mojaves to end up yellowing out at least on their backs!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

can i ask you guys:

i want a nice white 0.1 BEL, and am terrified of getting a snake that will yellow out (only because we're talking BEL here).

is Lesser x Mojave the only Tried and True(TM)? are there examples of that specific combo yellowing out?

just taking advantage of the topic; thank you guys!

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Good question, that's one of the things I'm hoping to learn from this thread too. So far, from the helpful responses and examples here, these are the summary points:
- Lesser Mojave = all white - but might still have faint yellow dorsal stripe?
- Super Lesser = all white and stays that way, but prone to bug eyes
- Super Mojave = purple/gray head (retained into adulthood), possible mild yellowing with age
- Hypo Super Mojave = the hypo lightens the purple/gray head, and reduces the body yellowing back to white
- Super Russo (White Diamond) or other combo with Russo = may have yellow dorsal stripe

I've also reviewed various BEL or similarly colored BP examples on Morph Market and different breeder websites, and have reached some tentative conclusions that I hope to get more clarification on:
- Lesser Mystic = also seems to yield clean white babies; not sure how these age?
- Super Yellowbelly = Ivory (a more yellowed white as baseline, with little irregular darker patches; black eyes instead of blue)
- Super Fire = black-eyed leucistic (black eyes again, obviously; little yellow patches sprinkled throughout the white)
- Russo Mystic = Invisiball (very light patterning, leans pale purple/gray)

Thoughts or corrections/additions, anyone? Or better yet, example photos? :)

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

Good question, that's one of the things I'm hoping to learn from this thread too. So far, from the helpful responses and examples here, these are the summary points:

Thoughts or corrections/additions, anyone? Or better yet, example photos? :)

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In my above post, there's links to lesser mojaves that have a faint yellow dorsal stripe.

I checked morphmarket too and the super lessers (when not combined with additional genes) are also all pure white. So in fact, I think super lessers are the only ones that for sure stay pure white... which is what I also found years ago back when I was deciding between super lesser or lesser mojave haha. For what it's worth, my super lesser had bug eyes as a hatchling. Now they just look kind of strange and unique, but not bugged, like he grew into them. So I'd just avoid super lessers with ridiculously bugged eyes if you're getting a hatchling.

Not that there aren't lesser mojaves that are pure white, but ones with a yellow dorsal seems like it pops up fairly often.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

In my above post, there's links to lesser mojaves that have a faint yellow dorsal stripe.

I checked morphmarket too and the super lessers (when not combined with additional genes) are also all pure white. So in fact, I think super lessers are the only ones that for sure stay pure white. For what it's worth, my super lesser had bug eyes as a hatchling. Now they just look kind of strange and unique, but not bugged, like he grew into them. So I'd just avoid super lessers with ridiculously bugged eyes if you're getting a hatchling.

Not that there aren't lesser mojaves that are pure white, but ones with a yellow dorsal seems like it pops up fairly often.

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Haha, I posted and then saw your new replies, so I went back and edited my bullet points. Your Yukon certainly does sport a gorgeously clean paint job! I noticed his eyes looked a bit different, but you're right, not as prominently bugged as I've seen on some hatchlings.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Yukon, my 4 year old super lesser male!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2zso1_1280.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2zso3_1280.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...pf3o1_1280.jpg





Super lesser don't yellow out... I've seen some photos online that look like some lesser mojave almost have a very faint yellow dorsal.

For example, the one in this thread: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-lesser-mojave
Even a few of the lesser mojaves on wobp have that yellow dorsal: http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/lesser-mojave/
It even looks like it has a faint yellow hue on the belly and scales overall too, which is weird.

Super lessers though are as snow white as possible! Just be aware of some having overly bugged eyes.

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thank you so much for the info! im kinda dipping my toes into the BEL complex and it seems super lesser/butter is the way too go

Yeah, so far for a reliably solid white that stays stable into adulthood, Super Lesser sounds like a sure thing. The other combo I'm kind of curious about is Lesser Mystic, as the hatchlings I've seen look very clean white as well, but I don't know how that might hold up over the years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

That's really cool! How old is your White Diamond? I was actually just reading through a thread that described how Vin Russo first produced the White Diamond from a pair of his "Lemon Ball" snakes, which now would be called Russo morphs (shorter than saying/writing "Russo line het leucistic") in deference to his work.

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She is 14 months. She gets real dirty the month before a shed but looks great after. She also (as you can see in past posts of mine) had a lot of blotches from a hatchling until around 10 months. I wasn’t happy at all but decided her temperament was so sweet that it was meant to be. She has cleaned up more and more every couple months. Im very happy now with her whole package. She is actually my wife’s now and thats cool because they are both more each other’s speed.


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As promised, here is Arya after her shed. She does have a bit of a dorsal stripe, but it's more of a light pink, not yellow. Very possible it yellows with age.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/LQ4Qzi4.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/irlCwAm.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/kIJ1w6I.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/J4ah3tQ.jpg

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

She is 14 months. She gets real dirty the month before a shed but looks great after. She also (as you can see in past posts of mine) had a lot of blotches from a hatchling until around 10 months. I wasn’t happy at all but decided her temperament was so sweet that it was meant to be. She has cleaned up more and more every couple months. Im very happy now with her whole package. She is actually my wife’s now and thats cool because they are both more each other’s speed.


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That's so interesting, and it sounds like things worked out really well for all of you, haha. Also, that's awesome that your wife enjoys the reptile hobby with you; I'm not sure if any of my family members would be quite up to the task of "inheriting" my BP yet!

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

As promised, here is Arya after her shed. She does have a bit of a dorsal stripe, but it's more of a light pink, not yellow. Very possible it yellows with age.

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Thanks so much for these great photos, Arya's looking spectacular! And you're right, that dorsal stripe is definitely soft pink rather than yellow. I guess only time will tell if the stripe will gradually turn yellow, stay pink, or just fade away entirely, but honestly, as it is right now, it actually looks quite pretty.

I have a super lesser with what i am guessing -does- have other genes at play, as she has gone rather yellow. Shes at 356 grams, when i got her at 75g she was pure white.
Breeder said she might have pinstripe, spider, pastel or black pastel in there. Anyways just wanted to submit my data lol.

Also i haven't seen anyone mention white weddings (spider pied). If you get one with no head markings, i have heard that is the cleanest purest white you can get, possible downside that it will not be a blue eye lucy as you may only be searching for that.


Pics: now vs babyhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fca7134d51.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...58692eed04.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roux

I have a super lesser with what i am guessing -does- have other genes at play, as she has gone rather yellow. Shes at 356 grams, when i got her at 75g she was pure white.
Breeder said she might have pinstripe, spider, pastel or black pastel in there. Anyways just wanted to submit my data lol.

Also i haven't seen anyone mention white weddings (spider pied). If you get one with no head markings, i have heard that is the cleanest purest white you can get, possible downside that it will not be a blue eye lucy as you may only be searching for that.


Pics: now vs babyhttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...fca7134d51.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...58692eed04.jpg

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Oooh, very interesting! The yellow on her seems to have a very soft, diffuse distribution along her body rather than a dorsal stripe or scattered dorsal patches. As for the Spider Pied, I actually hadn't seen any White Weddings before. Just looked them up, and wow, that is a VERY spotless white indeed, though you're right that they don't get the blue eyes anymore.

Another contributing gene to add to the list of considerations is Bamboo, which also seems to yield the BEL "look" when combined with Mojave, Lesser, or Russo, though again with a lot of variation when it comes to how much visible "residual" pattern still shows through. (I've recently had my eye on a Bamboo Mojave myself, so if I do cave and end up getting him, I will also start adding to this database, haha.)

Bamboo is very interesting how it interacts with other bel complex morphs. Most of the combos i have seen have patterning on them, but no yellows. Granted i haven't seen adult ones, so maybe they do. Bamboo bels tend to be more expensive than the usual, but if money isn't a problem, then you should get what you like!






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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roux

Bamboo is very interesting how it interacts with other bel complex morphs. Most of the combos i have seen have patterning on them, but no yellows. Granted i haven't seen adult ones, so maybe they do. Bamboo bels tend to be more expensive than the usual, but if money isn't a problem, then you should get what you like!

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Thanks for the info! Definitely curious about what bamboo adds to the mix, and I don't actually have any objection to some faint patterning - the solid white is beautiful in one way, while having some lacy "phantom" pattern can also look pretty nifty. I know what you mean about the price difference though, and the reason why I'm considering this Bamboo Mojave in particular is because it'd be coming from a breeder I trust and have purchased from before, and who is willing to work with me in terms of price.

Well, time to add my new boy to this thread! I didn't end up getting the Bamboo Mojave, but I'm not 100% sure whether this little guy is a Super Butter or Butter Mojave. As far as parentage goes, according to the breeder, the mother is single-gene Butter and the father is Pewter Mojave Butter, and that pairing yields a few different combos that would all visually present as BELs. At any rate, he's really darn cute, so I'm happy with him regardless.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...01_195507.jpeg


https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/7/5/5/0/2/02.jpg

Congrats on your bel! Keep a record of how or if his color changes as he grows, i would be interested to see!

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Very cute! I love the BELs as well. I don’t know the mix of my boy, so it will be interesting to see if he develops any color/pattern as he grows.

congrats on getting your BEL. very cute.

were there sibling Cinny and Pastel combo's in the clutch? maybe u wanna blacklight him once he gets all nice and settled in after a long while.

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

[As a side note, I'm not talking about black-eyed lucies (or the elusive "red-eyed lucy"/Cherry Bomb) ... but I certainly won't object if you want to show off pics of those as well!]

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ok here are some pix. enjoy: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...by-and-Emerald

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Originally Posted by Roux

Congrats on your bel! Keep a record of how or if his color changes as he grows, i would be interested to see!

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Thank you! I definitely will try to take pictures of any notable changes I see.

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Originally Posted by Dianne

Very cute! I love the BELs as well. I don’t know the mix of my boy, so it will be interesting to see if he develops any color/pattern as he grows.

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Button, right? A mystery boy! I'd certainly also be curious to see if he goes through any changes. Do you know around when in 2018 he hatched?

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Originally Posted by Ax01

congrats on getting your BEL. very cute.

were there sibling Cinny and Pastel combo's in the clutch? maybe u wanna blacklight him once he gets all nice and settled in after a long while.


ok here are some pix. enjoy: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...by-and-Emerald

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Thank you! Though I don't know what morphs were present in his clutchmates. What would the pattern look like under blacklight if there was Cinnamon and/or Pastel in the mix?

Also holy cow, what beauties you have! Cherry Bombs seem to be so rare, how did you find Emerald?

He’s gorgeous! This is my little baby BEL, not sure male or female yet but his name is Blue.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c8a9108a87.jpg

Tapatalk seems to block this other great pic i have of him... they say it’s “an adult image”... lol wtf!




-Jason

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b65fc6b38a.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...511618b91e.jpg

So excited to watch him grow! He’s an itty bitty 88 grams right now.


-Jason

Blue is a cutie! I remember you'd mentioned in another thread that you'd originally been looking for a solid white snake, but I think that faint, almost ghostly pattern on Blue looks so cool! Besides, who can resist that sweet little face?

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

Blue is a cutie! I remember you'd mentioned in another thread that you'd originally been looking for a solid white snake, but I think that faint, almost ghostly pattern on Blue looks so cool! Besides, who can resist that sweet little face?

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Yeah! I really do like his pattern :) Right?!

I really hope the pattern doesn’t fade too much as he gets older.


-Jason

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

Thank you! Though I don't know what morphs were present in his clutchmates. What would the pattern look like under blacklight if there was Cinnamon and/or Pastel in the mix?

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i would guess it would look like some kinda Savannah or Pewter-combo if there is any pattern but i dunno. just turn off the lights, turn on a black light and see! don't forget to take pix. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

Also holy cow, what beauties you have! Cherry Bombs seem to be so rare, how did you find Emerald?

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i tracked down everyone that had an Mojo Albino or het Albino or other BEL Albino animal for a long time. i suspected them work on a REL project. i also got one of the original White Magic's out of my search - an Albino Black Magic (Albino Mojave Black Pastel). :gj:

I don’t think my new guy is technically considered a BEL (he’s a Mystic x Lesser), but I am going to show him anyway. He looks more yellow in these pics then in real life. I think the flash brought it out.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9f9ae2c3c1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...949b1af99f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...fb2fd27703.jpg


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ax01

i tracked down everyone that had an Mojo Albino or het Albino or other BEL Albino animal for a long time. i suspected them work on a REL project. i also got one of the original White Magic's out of my search - an Albino Black Magic (Albino Mojave Black Pastel). :gj:

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That's so wicked cool!

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Originally Posted by Jcd5v

I don’t think my new guy is technically considered a BEL (he’s a Mystic x Lesser), but I am going to show him anyway. He looks more yellow in these pics then in real life. I think the flash brought it out.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...9f9ae2c3c1.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...949b1af99f.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...fb2fd27703.jpg


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He looks awesome, and I think he'd still count! Mystic is still in the BEL complex, after all.

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Originally Posted by RedRabbit

He looks awesome, and I think he'd still count! Mystic is still in the BEL complex, after all.

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Thanks! Yea apparently it is considered a Karma which is considered a BEL.


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