Fact or Myth?

I've been told by a local keeper of a few BP's to stay away from any with the Spider gene as he says they are very nippy and don't grow out of it. Is this true? And are there and other specific genes to stay away from when looking for pet first BP's? And lastly, any difference in temperament between males and females?

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Originally Posted by MR Snakes

I've been told by a local keeper of a few BP's to stay away from any with the Spider gene as he says they are very nippy and don't grow out of it. Is this true? And are there and other specific genes to stay away from when looking for pet first BP's?

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False... Avoid that local weirdo. Lol

There aren't any ball python morphs that are correlated to temperament/nippiness.

Some morphs have a higher chance of physical deformities, and some with genetic neurological issues (spiders), but it's nothing to do with being a first-time owner or not.

I've never had a nippy spider, so I don't know what he's talking about. There are some people who refuse to breed them because of the wobble, but it's too minor an issue to squabble about imo.

Temperament is different for each individual snake. It isn't attached to any specific gene. If you want a good pet, mention that when you're talking to the seller of the snake you're interested in.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

False... Avoid that local weirdo. Lol

There aren't any ball python morphs that are correlated to temperament/nippiness.

Some morphs have a higher chance of physical deformities, and some with genetic neurological issues (spiders), but it's nothing to do with being a first-time owner or not.

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Snow and ice does funny things to those who live here in Maine.

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Originally Posted by the_rotten1

I've never had a nippy spider, so I don't know what he's talking about. There are some people who refuse to breed them because of the wobble, but it's too minor an issue to squabble about imo.

Temperament is different for each individual snake. It isn't attached to any specific gene. If you want a good pet, mention that when you're talking to the seller of the snake you're interested in.

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Wobble? Good point with your last comment. Thanks

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Originally Posted by MR Snakes

Snow and ice does funny things to those who live here in Maine.



Wobble? Good point with your last comment. Thanks

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Have u ever seen a snake with a wobble? I feel bad to say it but they are kinda cute. But I like helping animals that other people don’t like

Hah!

My Bumble Bee (Pastel Spider) was the SWEETEST BP you could ever find. And a GREAT eater. Lucky for me, she had no visible wobble at all. The worst she did was sometimes miss her food at first strike. But ALL spider morphs have the wobble, some almost invisible, others pretty bad to the point of painful to watch. And the ones that have almost none, can get a worse wobble. While a bad wobble can seem to get better, simply by keeping the snake low stress. Once they settle in well and aren't excited/scared, they are much better. At feeding times the wobble seems to be worst. Most live full and seemingly happy lives.

Her hatchlings were also great eaters and sweet as can be. Her new owner ADORES that snake and she has given him a clutch of gorgeous hatchlings this year. All great eaters and beautiful :)

There are some other animals with this neurological defect. I have known of some dogs, they wobble while walking running, often falling over. Yet they are happy go lucky animals and there is no pain involved. They are just very unsteady animals.

I have heard that there are a couple of genetics which seem to produce a high percentage of rather snappy offspring. I could be wrong, but I think it may be the cinnamon's? Might not be true, though, just what I've heard..

I know it can’t have anything to do with the morph, but every spider or spider combo I’ve had has been an absolute doll to handle. I think it’s just because of the neurological issues that even those with a minuscule/unnoticeable wobble have.

So if anything, I’d say it’s the exact opposite of what that person told you lol. The only thing to look out for with spiders is if you plan to breed, you cannot breed two spiders together. It is one of the few genes that is deadly in homozygous form.

Most of the spider morphs I've run across in person or have seen on youtube are pretty docile snakes. Sometimes a bit antsy if they have a more pronounced wobble, but not nippy.
Personally tho, I do have a very nippy spider. But that's just luck of the draw. I've tried different setups since May and she's very fussy about her food. So far, nothing has helped, she will come rushing out to defend herself. With luck, she may mellow out as she gets closer to that 1000 gram weight, but she's still small and at around 350 grams. She's fasting a bit right now...So who knows when she'll actually get to that size.

But that can just be how some bps in general are. I had a similar experience with a young normal phase. Once he was eating well and got to a good size, he was fine.
Another 'nippy' bp of mine was a rescue normal with a severe burn, so he was just painful. Now he's mostly just a tad defensive, but I can't blame him after everything.

I had a rough time with blizzard morph leopard geckos back in 2005. They had a bit of a 'tude. They were the only leos I had where I would get bit. I'm assuming because at the time, they were probably not very diversified. Some of the original stock may have had more of a grumpy attitude. They were still the newest morphs at that time, so some people were still linebreeding to get visual blizzards as quick as possible. Blizzards now have had a chance to outcross and most I've seen are sweethearts now.

Spiders have had more than enough time to outcross, so I don't think it's anything like that, unless the spiders he was working with are pretty tightly linebred. And that's something you would want to avoid regardless. Linebreeding can help isolate some cool morphs, but can be detrimental after a while. Reptiles are far more forgiving than birds or mammals where issues crop up fairly quick and can be identified. Reptiles are slower at showing those lingering issues.
That being said... a nippy bp isn't necessarily a bad thing in a breeding group. Just if you notice a higher incidence of nippy descendents than normal, you may want to reconsider that project.

My spider has never been nippy, but does weird things with his neck and head

[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/rI4J6tY.jpg[/IMG]

Myth, at least for Shayna, my albino Spider BP.

I've had her since she was 200G and 5 months old and got her from Mark Petros. He had 4 Albino Spiders. He had two that were calm as can be and he could bump in the head and were just like, "please stop," as opposed to hissing or striking. Shayna was one, and was the calmest. She also took F/T readily. DING DING DING, we have a winner!

She's never so much as looked at me funny. When she was settled into her quarantine tank, and had a meal or two, she hissed at me 2X, on two consecutive times taking her out (over a 4 day period or so - Tuesday and then Thursday, or something like that). Both times I called her bluff, picked her up, and she's never done it since. She didn't even lift her head, open her mouth, or anything. Just a little hiss when I touched her to pick her up.

I hook train any snake that can do damage. Pretty much any boid and python. Shayna is my only exception to that. Yafe, carpet python, hook trained. So are both my boas, and for good reason! Shayna barely ever even strikes are her F/T prey. Usually she just grabs and pulls back into her house. She scares the crap out of me the 1X or so a year she decides to strike and coil the prey. I am never expecting it and have no idea what compels her to strike that once every 20-25 feedings or so.

Shayna is a little shy, and has a tendency to scare herself, especially when first out. She will bump her head into my body, or arm, etc. and shoot backwards, obvisouly scared. She is a little head shy, but if out for a few minutes, and gentle with her, you can gently work your way up her neck and put her head in your hand, etc. She's not Behira (BCI) level where you can just rub her chin, or put her head in your hand and pet her head. She never will be, but that's okay.

Even though she can be a little shy, and almost skittish, she has never demonstrated defensiveness in these situations. It's more like, "OH NO! Make it stop!" Then a second later, she's like, "Phew. Thank G-D, that's over."

She's a great snake ambassador as she's slow moving, beautiful, and calm as can be. My niece, now 8, has been interacting with Shayna since I got her and my niece, Meghan, was 2 1/2. They are buddies and she really got Meghan into reptiles. Meghan just started writing book reports and her first one is on..............wait for it........Reptiles!

Anyway, Shayna is about as cool a customer as you can have in a snake. So, as stated earlier, in regards to Shayna, TOTAL MYTH.

For what's worth, she also shows virtually zero signs of wobble.

[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/KUmICmw.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/GMVeneR.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/3seviO1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/nvXgN8S.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/TdBiClV.jpg[/IMG]

Myth for me too.

My spider is the least defensive snake I have and the only time I almost got bit was one time he completely missed his rat on the tongs and ended up near my hand instead. No contact but a bit of a close call; I now use longer tongs, lol.

He accepts boops and gentle head rubs with virtually 0 reaction as long as there are no sudden/jerky movements. He did wobble slightly when he only ate live at the start, but he doesn't really wobble where his head shakes anytime else. Instead he just doesn't differentiate up from down while being held and moves completely upside down for half of it when circling an arm or something, but that's only when he's off of a solid flat surface. In his cage or on the floor he moves perfectly normally.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1c625567da.jpg

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Originally Posted by Lateralus_Love

I know it can’t have anything to do with the morph, but every spider or spider combo I’ve had has been an absolute doll to handle. I think it’s just because of the neurological issues that even those with a minuscule/unnoticeable wobble have.

So if anything, I’d say it’s the exact opposite of what that person told you lol. The only thing to look out for with spiders is if you plan to breed, you cannot breed two spiders together. It is one of the few genes that is deadly in homozygous form.

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OK, so dumb question. What happens if you do?

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Originally Posted by MR Snakes

OK, so dumb question. What happens if you do?

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I think you either get dead babies or the end up dying after hatching.

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Originally Posted by RickyNY

I think you either get dead babies or the end up dying after hatching.

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The dead snakes is IF you hit a Super Spider in the clutch, from what I read of people who had tried it.

From those, it seems any of the normal single-gene spider or non-spider babies are all ok. The Super form of spider is the lethal part. But yeah, they are usually stated as all white snakes either underdeveloped and died in the egg, or die shortly after hatching.

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My spider is the most chill/ best temperament out of all my snakes currently.

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Originally Posted by MR Snakes

I've been told by a local keeper of a few BP's to stay away from any with the Spider gene as he says they are very nippy and don't grow out of it. Is this true? And are there and other specific genes to stay away from when looking for pet first BP's? And lastly, any difference in temperament between males and females?

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http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php

This is something everyone looking into ball pythons should know about. It lets people know of the issues with certain morphs.

Morph	Issue
Spider	Wobble
Woma	Wobble
Hidden Gene Woma	Wobble
Champagne	Wobble
Super Sable	Wobble
Powerball	Wobble
Black Head x Spider	Masks the Spider's wobble
Sable x Spider	Difficult to hatch, severe wobble
Champagne x Hidden Gene Woma	Severe wobble
Champagne x Spider	Lethal
Pearl	Normally Lethal
Super Champagne	Lethal
Super Spider	Lethal
Desert	Female fertility issues
Caramel Albino	Kinking and female sub-fertility
Super Cinnamon/Super Black Pastel	Duckbill & rare kinking
Super Lesser Platinum/Super Butter	Bug eyes
Lesser Platinum x Piedbald	Small Eyes
Banana/Coral Glow	Males produce weird sex ratios

The whole reason I even got my BP (Cinnamon Spider) was because of how fantastic her personality was when I saw her at an expo. Calm, but not shy... inquisitive and almost “friendly” even though it seems ridiculous to say that about a snake. I go to her cage and I swear, if I say her name, she will poke her head out of her hide and stretch all the way to the glass and just stare at me then slowly slink back in lol. You can touch her anywhere, even right on the nose, do anything with her, and she doesn’t flinch.

That being said... while she doesn’t do the typical “wobble” and doesn’t have any trouble getting food.... she DOES sometimes get stuck “in a loop.” I guess it’s what one would describe as corkscrewing. Every now and then, I’ll see her out of her hide at night. Most of the time she acts like any other snake. But sometimes she’ll stay in one spot and just twist her head around all sorts of directions for longer than acceptable amounts of time... I’m not gonna lie, it’s unsettling to watch. But I’ve figured out if I just tap once the glass* it snaps her out of it and she goes back to normal. Almost like a reset button. Other than that, though, she’s awesome.



*under normal circumstances I would never tap on an animals cage...


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Another for myth. My BP has the spider gene and hasn't once tried to nip.

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

http://www.owalreptiles.com/issues.php

This is something everyone looking into ball pythons should know about. It lets people know of the issues with certain morphs.

Morph	Issue
Spider	Wobble
Woma	Wobble
Hidden Gene Woma	Wobble
Champagne	Wobble
Super Sable	Wobble
Powerball	Wobble
Black Head x Spider	Masks the Spider's wobble
Sable x Spider	Difficult to hatch, severe wobble
Champagne x Hidden Gene Woma	Severe wobble
Champagne x Spider	Lethal
Pearl	Normally Lethal
Super Champagne	Lethal
Super Spider	Lethal
Desert	Female fertility issues
Caramel Albino	Kinking and female sub-fertility
Super Cinnamon/Super Black Pastel	Duckbill & rare kinking
Super Lesser Platinum/Super Butter	Bug eyes
Lesser Platinum x Piedbald	Small Eyes
Banana/Coral Glow	Males produce weird sex ratios

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Thank you, this is a BIG help!