Bitey Baby

Hello, first post on this cool and useful forum!

looks like I’ve caught some kind of disease!

it started a month or two ago, at a local reptile fair.
I came home with a beautiful baby, a lesser het pied female.
She is very gentle and chilled, but eating like a demon on frozen/thawed rat fuzzies.
She’s already much heavier. And I’m in love!

Then after too many YouTube videos and too much forum scouring, the disease set in.
Last Saturday I took a seven hour drive to Hamm, Germany, to Europe’s biggest reptile fair.

There I got Mr Bitey, a stunning banana/coral glow Enchi Mojave september hatchling.

his behavior when I got him home was different. Very defensive ‘f-off’ pose, and a few attempts to tag me. My theory is he’s mega stressed. Uk to Hamm, Hamm to Denmark (where I am), new enclosure... lots of reasons to be freaked. He didn’t even hide for the first two days.

Now he in his hide behaving more ‘normally’. I’m leaving him completely alone for a week, not trying to feed him or disturb him.

First time I’ve seen tagging behavior, I’m new to this, so just looking for assurances that this is all normal, and that he won’t be a bitey baby forever!

Husbandry is all good I think, they’re in tubs with under the belly heating + thermostats, heat gradient, two hides, small water dish, good humidity levels.

thanks for reading if you got this far!

Welcome. I'm new here so I'll just watch. But I'd think it'll be something he'll grow out of once he's settled. Good luck!

We have a bitey adult. Some are just wired that way I think. There's a youtube video of an entire clutch of newly hatched babies all biting each other. We have greatly curbed this behavior by giving a warning before we pick her up by rubbing her back gently. Then if she doesn't hide her head or have it neutral upon lifting out, I cup my hand and put it over her head and then put my other hand over her body to let her know I'm bigger than she is. It's all very gentle. It seems to work well for her, but I can never fully trust her and I expect her to bite still at times.

The other day, against my advice, my daughter took "bitey" out and had her friend holding her. Which was all going well until a couple of other kids burst into the room and crowded around her, and she bit the friend and made her bleed a bit. The mom was cool about it but I told my daughter that no one but family holds that snake in the future, nor does she come out when guests are over.

Now my other BP is a totally docile snake who never has bitten or even threatened to bite anyone. I do think some of the personality is just wired in.


Edited to add the video showing the bitey babies and tips that the keeper shows to help with this behavior.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DQssbM0uk

:welcome: Have no fear, he's completely normal. Just like us, some 'baby' snakes are more nervous than others, but much has to do with what they've gone
thru so far in life. Remember their instincts keep them alive in the wild...anything that picks them up is normally a predator that's about to EAT them, so of course
he's scared & defending himself the only way he can. They also don't rely on vision to identify us...more by scent & touch, so don't be surprised if he still doesn't
think you're his pal from any distance. If they were all the same, they wouldn't be nearly so addicting anyway...;) But stay patient while he learns, & keep in
mind that they may still have a different personality.

Hatching are defensive their is just no way around it, they see you as a predator and that's what it's all about.

Until they reach about 250 grams I recommend handling no more than once or twice a week for no longer than 30 min.

As they grow in size this behavior will disappear and usually by the time they are 500 grams it's no longer an issue.

Totally normal! I have 2 really pissy girls, one (the younger of the two, Queenspin YB) is mellowing out and only hisses when i pull her out but relaxes pretty quickly. The other one (firefly blitz maybe 2 yrs old) starts striking at anything that moves as soon as her hide box is pulled. I got her from a friend who rarely handled his snakes. She is always stiff as a board and actually tagged me yesterday as I walked by with my gf holding her LOL! I hope she will calm down but like some people, some snakes are just gonna be fiesty! The good news is if they strike at nothing they usually have a great feeding response:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Hatching are defensive their is just no way around it, they see you as a predator and that's what it's all about.

Until they reach about 250 grams I recommend handling no more than once or twice a week for no longer than 30 min.

As they grow in size this behavior will disappear and usually by the time they are 500 grams it's no longer an issue.

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LOL unless it's my 1600 gram girl who is still very bitey and hissy

Nice thread and very helpful video.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Maybe on the weekend I'll try to feed him, but quite happy to leave him alone for a few weeks.

Will keep you posted!

Two of my hatchlings were very defensive as soon as they were set up in their little tubs after hatching. With one it was mostly hissing loudly and posturing, but she would calm down as soon as lifted out.

The other one actually rushed to the front of the tub as soon as I opened it, ready to rumble !!! I didn't do any handling to tame them. But what I did do is open the tub frequently, simply to either clean it or attempt to feed them or get a weight. Just maintenance things. When I did have to take them out I always gently put my flat hand on them from above. Apply VERY GENTLE pressure on their heads and body, basically just a calming touch to snap them out of their pissy state. Then I immediately picked them up. If they would go back to being pissy (s-curve, tense, huffing, staring, ready to tag) they would get cupped once again with the other hand from above with gentle pressure, and that is usually all it took. All handling and touching should be GENTLE but deliberate. Within a couple times of handling them this way they were over the defensiveness.

The most pissy/defensive one ended up being the BEST pet BP anyone could ask for. I gifted him to a worker at the barn where I board my horse at, so I hear about Monty regularly. The owner adores that snake. Monty is bold and curious and doesn't display any of the shy behavior BP's are known for. He has never even been head shy. You can literally touch his head and he won't pull back. Never a problem eating, either. And no aggressiveness at all.

I find the hatchlings with a bit of sass the best ones. Once calmed down they loose the pissyness but usually keep the bold and curious aspect of their personality. The hatchlings that are "super sweet" are usually just very shy and scared and harder to get to eat.

Don't be afraid to handle him. Just don't over do it for now. But when you need to do maintenance or you want to weigh him or look him over, just take him out, make him deal with it, keep it short and sweet and return him home :) He will quickly realize that you are no threat and you are also not intimidated by his tough act ;)

Thanks so much! That was a very encouraging post! I like this forum already!
I’ll try some of those techniques soon. I really hope my experience matches yours, that would be so lovely!

Even though a few hours ago I said I wouldn’t feed him he was clearly on the prowl when I got home.
so just out of curiosity a defrosted a rat near him and he was super engaged. I decided to feed him... there was no immediate strike so I left him alone, 15 minutes later it was gone :) I know it’s not the done thing to feed for a week but he just looked... keen?

The extra cool thing is that he’s only eaten live pinky mice at the breeders so far... so no problem at all to convert him to f/t rats. I take that as a good sign!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paddy

Thanks so much! That was a very encouraging post! I like this forum already!
I’ll try some of those techniques soon. I really hope my experience matches yours, that would be so lovely!

Even though a few hours ago I said I wouldn’t feed him he was clearly on the prowl when I got home.
so just out of curiosity a defrosted a rat near him and he was super engaged. I decided to feed him... there was no immediate strike so I left him alone, 15 minutes later it was gone :) I know it’s not the done thing to feed for a week but he just looked... keen?

The extra cool thing is that he’s only eaten live pinky mice at the breeders so far... so no problem at all to convert him to f/t rats. I take that as a good sign!

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Thats a very good sign !!

And if your husbandry is right and the baby is hungry, nothing wrong to feed it if its willing to eat :)

Progress report:

Mr Bitey (hopefully not his final name) has now had two meals. No problem eating f/t rats it seems. must Be true that slightly aggro hatchlings are good feeders.

I still havn’t picked him, but I can have touched his back a little. He looked a little defensive but didn’t try to tag me... maybe he would have done if I had done it for more than a few seconds!

I guess I’ll leave him alone for another week.

You're doing great! Every snake is a little different, & all our interactions with them are a "conversation" in a way: he still thinks it's creepy being touched (LOL)
but he's eating & learning that you won't hurt him. Keep up the good work...:gj:

My method with dealing with a bitey hatchling is to go in slowly and touch their heads. If they go and tag me I make sure I don't recoil (I go in expecting to get tagged) and be as gentle as possible. I leave them alone and only handle them once a week or so. A healthy well fed well cared for baby tends to stops being aggressive and gets as chill as most adults around 300 grams or so. At least that has been my experience, I do have a stubborn adult female that hisses more than a bullsnake but has not tried to tag me in awhile.

Thanks for the advice!
this is the snake in question for those interested... the first and last time I held him 😂


http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/...D7AA5CC82.jpeg

Gorgeous !!!

If he eats well now, do short handling, if just pick him up and put him back once he is calm.

Remember to come from above and touch him with light pressure on his head and body (gentle) and then just swoop him up.
Cup him again if he goes back to S-curve, after that he should be fine.

Deliberate but calm movements, not nervous stabby unsure movements.

He will be just fine and so will you :)

An update to give courage to those in similar situations!

To begin with I just got him used to my hands in the enclosure, and occasionally touched his back whilst keeping his attention on my other hand.
He’d still get defensive and actually has started to hiss... definitely a nervous dude.

He also tried to tag me through the box, but I have persisted.

Today I actually picked him up, briefly! he was tense but started to relax a little, slow tongue flicking. When I put him down he went back into a defensive pose but this was definitely an improvement.

I only hehd him an inch or two above the ground still in his enclosure in case he freaked out; he’s still a bit twitchy.

hopefully in a while I’ll be able to take him out and try the cupping trick if required...

but definite progress! Im determined to get this guy feeling safe.

Another update.
Almost a complete personality change overnight.
Today no hissing, no tagging attempt and pretty much no defensive posturing... I was able to pick him up and he was just in explore mode, not freaked out at all. It’s like a new snake... so strange that it happened so suddenly...
hopefully this new behavior is here to stay!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paddy

Another update.
Almost a complete personality change overnight.
Today no hissing, no tagging attempt and pretty much no defensive posturing... I was able to pick him up and he was just in explore mode, not freaked out at all. It’s like a new snake... so strange that it happened so suddenly...
hopefully this new behavior is here to stay!

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Even if he regresses now & then, it shows he is learning (as snakes do) that he is "home" and safe with you. :gj:

Very beautiful.
He will be just fine.....just a scared baby boy.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

The hatchlings that are "super sweet" are usually just very shy and scared and harder to get to eat.

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That makes a lot of sense. Mine is very shy and very hard to get to eat anything. Sometimes I wish she’d just get up the courage and bite me lol I’ve been handling her for a short time every day and she mostly stays curled up in a ball. I feel so bad she’s so afraid all the time.