Does my BP have IBD or the Spider Gene?? Please help!

I've recently bought a ball python and I noticed that it has been doing these head twists when I'm handling it and also when it's alone in its cage. I was wondering if this condition is serious and possibly fatal for the ball python.

Here's a video of the odd behavior.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gLJ...ew?usp=sharing

It does this very often and sometimes the twists are more violent and fast.
Any help will be greatly appreciated!

It does not have spider but does seem to have some other ailment causing the corkscrew. I haven't dealt with much illness in my collection so I don't want to make a guess what is causing it. How long have you had it? If not long, I'd be contacting the person you got it from to discuss options.

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Thanks for your reply! I bought it from PetSmart three days ago. Since the behavior is not correlated to the spider gene, does the behavior look like a symptom of IBD?

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Originally Posted by DPlant

Thanks for your reply! I bought it from PetSmart three days ago. Since the behavior is not correlated to the spider gene, does the behavior look like a symptom of IBD?

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It could be*...do you have any other snakes? (I'm hoping this one is quarantined if so!!!) If that were me, I'd be contacting the store I got it from A.S.A.P.- don't
know if he came with a health guarantee, but that is NOT normal, what your video showed. (*neurological impairment in snakes can also come from excessive heat
or other ailments, including falls)

Your BP does not have the spider gene he has some motion/neurological issues which can be caused by a number of things IBD usually being very last as it is rare.

People jump the gun when it comes to IBD my advice stop googling symptoms imagining the worse and if you really have doubt take your snake to a vet and get a test done since there is now a blood test that can confirm IBD.

It can be caused by being over-heated at some point which can be permanent or temporary, chemical exposure etc

If your snake has mites concurrently I would guess IBD: Otherwise I suspect it is another health issue.

The simplest solution is to return it to PetSmart and sterilize your equipment. The more expensive route is to bring it to the Vet.

That’s horrible. Poor thing probably got dangerously overheated at some point would be my first guess.

Thank you for all your replies.

I have an update. My ball python has been in this posture for quite some time and it seems very abnormal.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...=w1251-h938-no
Based off videos and care guides, ball pythons are supposed to be hiding under hides but mine has not done so yet ever since I brought her home. I'll be taking her back to the pet shop and also the vet, if possible.

That poor little snake...hoping for the best, but something is very wrong. :(

Is this your first snake? & is this your only snake?

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

That poor little snake...hoping for the best, but something is very wrong. :(

Is this your first snake? & is this your only snake?

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Yup this is my first snake and she's my only snake. )): It really sucks that she has this condition.

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Originally Posted by DPlant

Yup this is my first snake and she's my only snake. )): It really sucks that she has this condition.

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It does. It sucks a lot :(

Kudos to you for seeking help, finding this forum and trying to find out what to do.

I have to tell you though, as a beginner, this is not something you should be taking on. A snake, particularly a Ball Python, can be a bit challenging at first. Not terribly so IF you meet their few, but very important needs. If you get those few basics right, ask for help, listen to it, then it can be a very rewarding experience.

But starting out with such a severely damaged snake, its not going to work :( Either it has gotten over heated or its been exposed to some chemicals like bug killer, mite spray, some construction or home improvement products that may have toxic fumes.

It may also have a birth defect or yes, a disease. Did it do this at the store? Did it do this right away at your house or is this something that happened after a bit?

Your best bet is to return it to the store, completely clean AND sanitize your enclosure, throw out everything that cannot be bleached and rinsed. Before you bring home a replacement check with us how to set this one up, to make sure you meed those basic needs. It will make the experience so much easier and more pleasant with you.

This is a severe defect, I don't think there is much you can do. Even a experienced keeper wouldn't be able to do much other then set it up in a small dark tub with ideal heat/humidity and as much privacy as possible. Plus the strictest of quarantine.

Petsmart employee here:
You have a 14-day policy for the return. Please bring her back to the Petsmart immediately if it is within the 14 days.
They will give you the refund for your purchase. Some stores will let you leave info to repurchase after the animal has been treated, but honestly, a condition like this is not very likely to improve. She will most likely be this way the entirety of her life.
Even with a very lucky diagnosis of meningitis, she may improve a bit, but might never be 'normal'.
I'm not sure this is a condition the little one was born with, meningitis, IBD, or an extreme temperature exposure... but even the lower half of this little one is twisted up because of the neurological issue.

Please return any porous items with her. Bedding that may have been contaminated, any rocky bowls or dishes or wooden hides. Anything else like the tank itself can be sterilized with bleach.

If they deny the return of any of the merchandise, contact the corporate office.

If you do decide on purchasing a different ball python through petsmart, ask them to check local stores for one, do not purchase from the same store. They may all be getting them from the same breeder, but they will hopefully not have been directly exposed to this one as each store will receive different shipments.


If it's after the 14 days, I really can't tell you any better advice then asking them to recommend an exotic vet in the area for you to take her to. You can attempt to talk with the manager or corporate, but past that 14 days, it's mostly out of their hands.

Unfortunately that snake is severely under weight and obviously very ill - whether from a neurological defect, toxin, overheating, or other reason. If it's been holding that position for a while it could be nearing death, I have seen snakes in particular twist abnormally when they get close to the end. I don't want to scare you or make you feel like this is at all your fault - because it's not, this issue is the stores and the fact that they refuse to take responsibility for the health of the animals.

If it survives you can try and return it - but in all honesty if it is that bad off, they won't do much to fix her if they even can. Heat stroke will make this permanent, so will toxins, and if it can't eat it won't survive anyway. If the poor thing gets worse you may have to consider humane euthanasia.

I'm also thinking that DPlant should have some definite information about what's wrong with the snake before getting another snake from any source, IF a
contagious disease is suspected or likely to be the cause; an abundance of caution should help preclude a repeat of this unfortunate situation with a new
healthy snake. I so hope it is well-within the 14 day return period, but I'd sure want to know the "rest of the story" for this one no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Crowfingers

If it survives you can try and return it - but in all honesty if it is that bad off, they won't do much to fix her if they even can. Heat stroke will make this permanent, so will toxins, and if it can't eat it won't survive anyway. If the poor thing gets worse you may have to consider humane euthanasia.

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Petsmart will do the return, regardless of if it passes or not in the 14 days.
Sadly yes, they best Petsmart can do and what they are required to do is take it to the vet. I've had a few amazing vets at my store that will do what they can, but sadly this is pretty extreme so euthanasia is the most probably outcome. I think the most frustrating aspect I've had is vets telling us they can't see a critical pet immediately =_=;

Thank you for your reply. The snake did not act like this until I brought it home. I'm quite sure that I did not overheat it, as the snake couldn't have gotten into direct contact with hot glass, as I have a layer of aspen that the snake has not burrowed under. In addition, I have the heat mat on a timer so that it will not overheat the snake.

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

Petsmart employee here:
You have a 14-day policy for the return. Please bring her back to the Petsmart immediately if it is within the 14 days.
They will give you the refund for your purchase. Some stores will let you leave info to repurchase after the animal has been treated, but honestly, a condition like this is not very likely to improve. She will most likely be this way the entirety of her life.
Even with a very lucky diagnosis of meningitis, she may improve a bit, but might never be 'normal'.
I'm not sure this is a condition the little one was born with, meningitis, IBD, or an extreme temperature exposure... but even the lower half of this little one is twisted up because of the neurological issue.

Please return any porous items with her. Bedding that may have been contaminated, any rocky bowls or dishes or wooden hides. Anything else like the tank itself can be sterilized with bleach.

If they deny the return of any of the merchandise, contact the corporate office.

If you do decide on purchasing a different ball python through petsmart, ask them to check local stores for one, do not purchase from the same store. They may all be getting them from the same breeder, but they will hopefully not have been directly exposed to this one as each store will receive different shipments.


If it's after the 14 days, I really can't tell you any better advice then asking them to recommend an exotic vet in the area for you to take her to. You can attempt to talk with the manager or corporate, but past that 14 days, it's mostly out of their hands.

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Thank you so much for your reply. I plan on bringing the snake back the PetSmart before the 14 day return policy. I will make sure to sterilize all my equipment and report the snake's condition to the employees.

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Originally Posted by DPlant

Thank you for your reply. The snake did not act like this until I brought it home. I'm quite sure that I did not overheat it, as the snake couldn't have gotten into direct contact with hot glass, as I have a layer of aspen that the snake has not burrowed under. In addition, I have the heat mat on a timer so that it will not overheat the snake.

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Do you have a thermostat and how are you measuring temps?

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

Do you have a thermostat and how are you measuring temps?

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I'm going to repeat this because it is extremely important.

I would 1. Return the snake. 2. Research or start a new thread and list your temps, etc plus was your heat mat on a thermostat? 3. Buy from a reputable breeder. I purchased my woma from Dynasty Reptiles and I really like my transaction with Chung.

I’m going to bet money that the op doesn’t have a thermostat. These should be sold with the snake at most stores!

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Originally Posted by Danger noodles

I’m going to bet money that the op doesn’t have a thermostat. These should be sold with the snake at most stores!

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Or at the least they should tell people to get one ! But they won't, because they don't sell them.

Very unfortunate.

Would it really be so very difficult to make up a proper HUSBANDRY sheet that addresses each basic necessity for each species. Their basic needs (heat range, humidity range, enclosure size and setup incl. privacy needs when it comes to BPs) AND the items needed. Enclosure, water dish, hides, heater (UTH, lamp, or RHP) substrate if wanted and most importantly the tools needed to check and maintain the crucial heat and humidity.

Thermostat is absolutely 110% without a doubt non-negotiable.

If the stores for whatever reason just refuse to do the right thing and simply hand out a printout that is worth while and SAFE, then each manager should teach their employee to let people know what to buy.

And if its such a big deal to recommend and item that isn't being sold in the store, for gods sake, SELL IT ALREADY !!!! :mad:

If they sell live animals, living beings, then there is NO excuse not to do at least that much. Its not like it would be a big deal!!!

ugh..

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Originally Posted by zina10

Or at the least they should tell people to get one ! But they won't, because they don't sell them.

Very unfortunate.

Would it really be so very difficult to make up a proper HUSBANDRY sheet that addresses each basic necessity for each species. Their basic needs (heat range, humidity range, enclosure size and setup incl. privacy needs when it comes to BPs) AND the items needed. Enclosure, water dish, hides, heater (UTH, lamp, or RHP) substrate if wanted and most importantly the tools needed to check and maintain the crucial heat and humidity.

Thermostat is absolutely 110% without a doubt non-negotiable.

If the stores for whatever reason just refuse to do the right thing and simply hand out a printout that is worth while and SAFE, then each manager should teach their employee to let people know what to buy.

And if its such a big deal to recommend and item that isn't being sold in the store, for gods sake, SELL IT ALREADY !!!! :mad:

If they sell live animals, living beings, then there is NO excuse not to do at least that much. Its not like it would be a big deal!!!

ugh..

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I've been to several PetCo stores near me for dog supplies, and usually when I browse the reptile supplies, I do see the zilla dial-contrilled on-off thermostat, and even a Flukers brand dome lamp that has a built in dimmer (they sell both the one with and without dimmer).

I think I've seen the same Zilla thermostat at PetSnart, before, but not with the regularity I see it at PetCo... no clue why they can't reliably (or at all in many stores) at least carry a basic on/off model!


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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

I've been to several PetCo stores near me for dog supplies, and usually when I browse the reptile supplies, I do see the zilla dial-contrilled on-off thermostat, and even a Flukers brand dome lamp that has a built in dimmer (they sell both the one with and without dimmer).

I think I've seen the same Zilla thermostat at PetSnart, before, but not with the regularity I see it at PetCo... no clue why they can't reliably (or at all in many stores) at least carry a basic on/off model!


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If I had to guess, it might be because they fear the cost of a QUALITY thermostat would turn off those who would buy snakes; instead, they allow them to get off to a
bad start with the reptiles they sell...are they hoping to sell them another snake when the first one gets sick? I wonder if our members who work in Petco & Petsmart
can shed any light on their store's philosophy? Anyone in the business of selling reptiles for this long HAS to be aware of their needs??? :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

If I had to guess, it might be because they fear the cost of a QUALITY thermostat would turn off those who would buy snakes; instead, they allow them to get off to a
bad start with the reptiles they sell...are they hoping to sell them another snake when the first one gets sick? I wonder if our members who work in Petco & Petsmart
can shed any light on their store's philosophy? Anyone in the business of selling reptiles for this long HAS to be aware of their needs??? :rolleye2:

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Having worked at petsmart...its probably A) they make more money in dog food anyway, so they don't bother. Or B) whoever is in charge of what gets sold literally doesn't know.
I mean...employees are supposed to refer to the care guide for any questions. The care guide says to get snakes a food bowl and is very clearly copy pasted from other reptile guides.

I honestly have no clue. It's a corporation, so any changes to the system are slow as molasses.
Like, the care guides we give out to customers have the right temps listed, and mention the hides and such. It's just the method to everything is so behind on the times. Like Thermometers to monitor the temp ranges. But no mention of what to do otherwise.

I'm lucky enough that most of the employees at my store will come to me for opinions or questions and I can steer them the right way. We also have a reptile specialty shop not too far away so I can point them there for a thermostat as well.

I know not every store can run the same... but mine actually has a vet who will see our animals in the same building. So we will have critters in an out when needed. Like right now I have a guinea pig with a bite wound that abscessed in treatment. So it bugs me when people just assume we kill anything that isn't sellable.

I've adopted far too many critters that were unable to be sold. My newest being a chinchilla. Adoption means 0$ paid to the store. And that was after having dropped 100$ at the vet.
2 of them were ball pythons. 1 because it would only eat live. Another for a severe burn from the breeder. Again, both having spent time at the vet as well beforehand.

I try and give my customers the best options with what I have. And hopefully, some follow through and pick up the stuff I tell them to at that reptile shop. But even with that, you'll have people picking up turtles off Craigslist and calling me a liar for telling them they need UV light and heat sources.

It's frustrating at times since you always have to deal with the constant complaints everywhere else as well. I'm sure Sunnieskies gets it a bunch as well as they work at Petco...though it bothers me that sometimes they will just bash petsmart as well. Lol. I just know we both are trying to make do with what corporate will let us get away with though.
Or sometimes do it regardless, unless corporate is in for a visit.... :P

There are thermostats on Amazon in the $20-25 range. I find it strange that Petco/PetSmart would consider that too expensive when there are bags of specialty dog food that cost twice that amount.

Selling a thermostat with a heating appliance is a stupidly easy money-making upsell for a retailer, and I'm rather shocked that the stores don't do it.

At any rate, unless/until OP returns to state 1) how she is measuring temperatures, and 2) whether or not her heat sources were regulated, we don't know if she cooked her snake due to ignorance, or if the store sold her a sick one.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

If I had to guess, it might be because they fear the cost of a QUALITY thermostat would turn off those who would buy snakes

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Honestly, I'd be happier if they would at least stock and recommend any of the less pricey on-off thermostats, like the Jumpstart. It would be an improvement over the nothing that most of the snakes they sell end up with. In my book, a potential failed thermostat/burned snake up to several years down the line is far better than one that is being burned or that is a matter of days/weeks before it winds up burned by new owners with no thermostat at all.

If a $35 thermostat is enough cost to put someone off buying a snake, that's probably a good thing... I would bet that those are often the ones more likely to feed less often or not at all due to a tight budget, who may decide to stop replacing substrate, skip taking a sick snake to a vet or ignore snake mites on their animal, etc.

It would be amazing if everyone could get started with something like a Herpstat, but that's just not likely to happen.

Anyone who works at the pet stores, do you know what or if there is a specific portion of corporate we could try addressing to request new products be carried?

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And hey, we could start an online petition, once we find out who to address...though someone would probably have to also put it on FB. I've seen such things
get results, especially when there's a LOT of signatures.

The customer service line is probably the best bet? I honestly wouldn't know that well. Regardless it's a trial to get things approved. There was an aquatic company nearby trying to make a deal with petsmart and that didn't go through. AquaTop. Great products, just Petsmart didn't bite.

It would have to be the Zoomed thermostat however for petsmart as that is the company that they are working with. I actually have been running one and it handled the first power outage with it very well.

I wish it was as simple as, "A customer recommended this!"

Guys we are going way of topic here, time to get back on track

Sorry Deb!

Any updates on this noodle?


And yikes... this was originally an accidental doublepost

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

If your snake has mites concurrently I would guess IBD: Otherwise I suspect it is another health issue.

The simplest solution is to return it to PetSmart and sterilize your equipment. The more expensive route is to bring it to the Vet.

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30 years having Constrictors and Ive never seen IBD personally.. also several people bring Mites home one way or another, Ive never known mites and IBD to go hand in hand. There are arm long lists of things to check that cause this type of behavior before IBD is even something to consider.


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Originally Posted by zina10

...particularly a Ball Python, can be a bit challenging...

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I think this is very exaggerated!
Nonetheless, I'd like to know the outcome.



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Thanks for the insight on the use of thermostats. Unfortunately, I did not know that a thermostat was necessary to prevent the heating mat from overheating and I thought that a timer would be enough. I have ordered a thermostat and it will be arriving today. In addition to this, I have an update on the poor ball python. I brought it back to PetSmart and when I described its condition and showed the snake to the employee, she instantly recognized it and told me that the snake had been snake ever since it arrived at the store. I have also reported the possibility of the ball python having IBD so that she would take extra precautions. Unfortunately, when I asked her if the ball python would be okay, she said that it was most likely not going to be alright (possible euthanasia?). Perhaps this situation was caused on my behalf due to the absence of a thermostat (however, I still have doubts that the ball python overheated in my care).

P.S. PetSmart was able to exchange the sick snake for another and it is doing excellent right now! It is exemplifying normal ball python behavior and I am closely observing it for any ailments, etc.

I'm very sorry that your first experience as a snake owner ended in such a way. I'm really happy that you've gotten it figured out with the store and they were able to replace your animal for a happy, healthy one!

If the snake had overheated and had sustained such intense neurological problems in that way, wouldn't the belly have been burned? I've never heard of a snake getting overheated so badly without sustaining at least some physical damage. Is it possible that the snake was inbred? Or simply born sick? Directed at anyone, just kind of musing...

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Originally Posted by DPlant

Thanks for the insight on the use of thermostats. Unfortunately, I did not know that a thermostat was necessary to prevent the heating mat from overheating and I thought that a timer would be enough. I have ordered a thermostat and it will be arriving today. In addition to this, I have an update on the poor ball python. I brought it back to PetSmart and when I described its condition and showed the snake to the employee, she instantly recognized it and told me that the snake had been snake ever since it arrived at the store. I have also reported the possibility of the ball python having IBD so that she would take extra precautions. Unfortunately, when I asked her if the ball python would be okay, she said that it was most likely not going to be alright (possible euthanasia?). Perhaps this situation was caused on my behalf due to the absence of a thermostat (however, I still have doubts that the ball python overheated in my care).

P.S. PetSmart was able to exchange the sick snake for another and it is doing excellent right now! It is exemplifying normal ball python behavior and I am closely observing it for any ailments, etc.

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Unfortunately it doesn't sound like we'll ever know the answer now, but as Wolftrap suggested, I think it's far more likely this snake was sick & not the result of anything
you did or didn't do. I cannot understand how the employee was aware that this snake was "sick ever since it arrived at the store" & yet they sold it anyway ? :O That
is inexcusable! IF that snake had anything contagious (which I would personally NOT rule out!) all the others it was with were also exposed & may suffer the same fate
in time. I hope :please: that your new snake will be fine: you got off to an awfully rough start on this, & while it's good that you're getting a thermostat now too, I'm still very
uncomfortable with the way you are left in the dark as to what was wrong with the first snake. I doubt that it will be alright (honestly), & since the employee KNEW it to
be sick before it was sold, then it's HIGHLY unlikely that you did anything that contributed to it's condition. I'm sure we don't have to tell you to watch your new snake
for any symptoms similar to what the other one did... (I'm not necessarily suggesting it's IBD...it's possibly neurological damage due to someone's overly-
aggressive use of chemicals to kill mites, or some other cause...but I'd want to KNOW before I got another snake from them.)

By the way, did you check (both snakes) for mites? Do you know what they look like, etc??? Please check & keep checking.

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If the snake had overheated and had sustained such intense neurological problems in that way, wouldn't the belly have been burned?

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No, back in the days due to a failure 2 of my animals overheated at a 100/110 degrees and suffered neurological issue but were not burned, they fully recovered after several weeks.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Unfortunately it doesn't sound like we'll ever know the answer now, but as Wolftrap suggested, I think it's far more likely this snake was sick & not the result of anything
you did or didn't do. I cannot understand how the employee was aware that this snake was "sick ever since it arrived at the store" & yet they sold it anyway ? :O That
is inexcusable! IF that snake had anything contagious (which I would personally NOT rule out!) all the others it was with were also exposed & may suffer the same fate
in time. I hope :please: that your new snake will be fine: you got off to an awfully rough start on this, & while it's good that you're getting a thermostat now too, I'm still very
uncomfortable with the way you are left in the dark as to what was wrong with the first snake. I doubt that it will be alright (honestly), & since the employee KNEW it to
be sick before it was sold, then it's HIGHLY unlikely that you did anything that contributed to it's condition. I'm sure we don't have to tell you to watch your new snake
for any symptoms similar to what the other one did... (I'm not necessarily suggesting it's IBD...it's possibly neurological damage due to someone's overly-
aggressive use of chemicals to kill mites, or some other cause...but I'd want to KNOW before I got another snake from them.)

By the way, did you check (both snakes) for mites? Do you know what they look like, etc??? Please check & keep checking.

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I checked both snakes very closely and I could not see any mites. The new BP is acting very normally, however it is not eating for me as of now.

I worry about too much heat FAR MORE THAN I worry too much about cold. I aim for 80-90 degrees gradient roughly. It sometimes gets down as low as 75 on the cool side. It sometimes gets as high as 94 at the hot side (where the basking area is right under the lamp.)

If the power went out and it got down to 60, I would take precautions to keep them warm and not worry too much, as long as it wasn't sustained for too long that cold.

However, if a thermostat failed and the ambient temps got over 100 degrees, I would remove them to cool off at room temp, and I would be FREAKING OUT! Organ/brain damage due to high heat and the fact that they cannot regulate their temps by sweating and such, like us mammals can.