Questions about what you personally enjoy about your animals / just general questions

I've been taking in a lot of information on my path to finding out if snake ownership is right for me, and then by extension which snake. For me, I like to view my animals and feed them, and I enjoy a beautiful scene so I would want an attractive enclosure with enrichment that allows an animal to engage in natural behaviors. I'm confused by the multiple tub rack set ups. I'm not judging, I'm just genuinely confused. It seems like the people who have those set ups are perfectly happy and really like their pets. For those of you who have this kind of set up, how do you enjoy your snakes/what do you enjoy about them? Is it just the act of caring for them, or the collecting aspect? Do you handle them frequently? Or is this kind of set up more frequently used by those who breed, and the enjoyment comes from tracking the statistics (that part I totally get, I love tracking things.)

If I didn't handle them frequently, would that make me neglectful? I've got other pets that enjoy being handled, and rather need it for their own well-being, but it seems like snakes are more about tolerating it rather than enjoying it.
Is out of cage time a necessity or mostly an owner's enjoyment aspect?

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I like to view my animals and feed them, and I enjoy a beautiful scene so I would want an attractive enclosure with enrichment that allows an animal to engage in natural behaviors. I'm confused by the multiple tub rack set ups. I'm not judging, I'm just genuinely confused.

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The issue with this if you are talking about BP which are commonly kept in tubs is that a visually attractive enclosure that allows the animal to engage in natural behaviors would likely not be that visually attractive to you unless you like having a termite mount in your living room which would not allow you to see the animal at all. That would be how they need to be kept if you want something TRULY realistic.

Being a good keeper is not about appearances it's about meeting an animal's need allowing the animal to thrive in a safe environment.

Hello!!

I don't use racks, so can't comment on that. But I do know that they are more practical and easy to maintain, so people with multiple snakes benefit from that.

For me, I've been fascinated with snakes since I was a kid. However, having one as a pet was out of the question due to my father being "afraid" of them.
It didn't take me too long after moving out of my parents house to start into the hobby though.

For me, I love the mystique of snakes. I love handling them watching them explore and roam, feeding them, and just observing them and their mannerisms and demeanors.
It blows my mind that an animal with no arms or legs and basically just a mouth for self defense (many of which can't do much damage anyway) has survived in this world for so long, while thousands of other creatures have gone extinct.
The fact that there are so many species of snake is something I enjoy as well. I currently keep 4 different species and love them all for different reasons. (I would be happy to elaborate more on that later if you're interested in keeping any of the species I keep)

One other big factor in why I enjoy keeping snakes as pets is that they're super easy to keep. If you've done proper research and set up the right equipment the right way they are super easy to maintain. They are also very inexpensive to keep once the initial investment is made, but enclosures and equipment can get pricey if you go higher end.

To answer your handling question: you're right, snakes generally "tolerate" handling and don't seek it out or require it. Some species are more docile than others, some are more active and inquisitive, some will just chill like a lap cat.
So choosing a species will be very important for you.

You're in a great place to learn, so stick around and ask lots of questions. We're happy to help and will definitely help you pick a species that you'd enjoy.

Best of luck!!

I enjoy animals for many reasons.

The whole tank/tub/cage thing has been discussed and argued to death. To me it comes down to this. Do the best you can. For any animal.

BUT, do NOT anthropomorphize.

What exactly is enrichment ? Would it be the same for a dog and a snake ? Or a Retic and a Ball Python ?

No, it is not.

Most people here keep at least some Ball Pythons, hence the forums name. Many (but not all) Ball Pythons are kept in rack/tub systems. Why? Because it works for them. It works very well for them. In the wild they spend a large part of their lives hiding in a tight dark spot. They lie in hiding, waiting for food to wander by. They do not go out and actively hunt like some species do. Even when found in trees, they were usually seeking out hiding spots, because they were often found in tree hollows. Which are just above ground dark and tight hides.

They do move around, esp. during breeding season, but a large part of their life is spent in a dark, tight, private and low traffic space.

When you have a BP that has feeding issues, which is not rare in this species, you can often remedy that by giving them a smaller, darker and tighter space. Given that everything else is on par and the animal is not sick, they often just crave the safety of just that.

So perhaps "enrichment" for a BP is the safety of a small space.

Of course you can still keep them in cages and tanks. It ALL can be done right and it ALL can be done wrong. Husbandry always has to be spot on. Which is harder to do in tanks, then cages or tubs. But it can be done. Privacy should always be given, with hides and solid back, sides and tops (mostly covered tank lids, too).
And yes, there are individuals, too, as with every species on earth. You will have the bolder or shyer ones, the more curious or laid back ones and the more nervous and high strung ones. But all in all you should look at a species needs, before you can decide what is right or wrong.

A room sized enclosure might feel more confined to a species that is used to travel for miles in the wild, then a tub is for a Ball Python that spends 95% of its life in a tight, dark space.

I only keep 6 Ball Pythons at the moment. I have the space and means to put them all in big cages. I choose to keep 5 in a rack system because it works and I feel they are doing exceptionally well in a system like that, after years of keeping that species and also doing rescue and rehab of them, years ago. I do keep one of them in a beautiful display cage. But honestly, it is more for my pleasure then his. He does come out of his hide at times, and he does climb on his shelf. But I believe he climbs on it because it is there. Not because he thinks its fun to do and looks forward to do some climbing.

Long story short, Ball Pythons do well in tubs. They can do well in cages/tanks. I don't knock either one, because there are some awesome keepers that do it either way and do it right. And the animals are thriving.

I do handle mine, all of them. I let them stretch and move about supervised. I try not to do it to much, I don't feel they look forward to it or particularly enjoy it. But they don't seem to mind it either, they are used to it, they are used to me, they know they won't get hurt.

I would also like for my horse to live on 400 acres+ to roam on, with streams, lakes, woods and grass land. But I can't. Most people can't. Doesn't mean that we can't give them a good life in a far smaller space then what the species is used to.

Well, here you have my 2 cents :)

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I currently keep 4 different species and love them all for different reasons. (I would be happy to elaborate more on that later if you're interested in keeping any of the species I keep)

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Thank you for all the insight you offered in your reply. I'd really like to take you up on the elaboration on your other species because it seems to me, with what others have said about BPs, that maybe that isn't the species for me.

I like your questions. Your looking at it in the right manner. Some people see and buy, then wonder if its for them and if they are enjoying it hahahaha.
I have always had display enclosures. Id never own a rack myself. Honestly the Pythons I’ve owned I take out a couple times a week and other than that use their Hides unless its Midnight and Im sleeping. You find this with most snake species. So they are not good entertainment unless you take them out and spend a short period time here and there with them. Also I do not decorate the enclosures. Im after Health and Happiness first. My enclosures are easily cleaned and very simple so they have their needs and nothing that can be dangerous. I have 4’ and 8’ PVC enclosures, PVC Hides, Radiant Heat Panels, Herpstat Thermostats and Kraft/Butcher Paper Substrate. I do have a PVC pipe panted brown that runs across for them to climb on and they do climb every night. Im not up to see that of course, im sleeping but when I wake i sneak and look and they are busy as beavers.
Ball Pythons tolerate handling well however could care less. Ive always been a Burmese Python Junkie and when I got the itch for something new a couple years ago went with Balls because I feel more than one Burm wouldn’t be good for the snake as giant snakes take up more time I might not have. First and for most Im respectful to all living things needs and If I cant give them that I dont sign up.
Burms are a whole different kind of animal. They follow your movement, they make choices, they investigate...where as Balls seem to be more instinctual, shy and self protective.
Now that I have a couple Balls I love them for who they are however I would never do it again. Ive spent a lot of time with them and they have come a long way and I feel they actually have some personality now that I think has come with all the handling and trust that has been built. So now that Ive talked nothing about what you have asked hahahahaha I think you should think about what would be good for you, because that is what would be good for the Snake. If your looking for a great looking Enclosure I recommend a AP (Animal Plastics). This is what you will see when you walk by it... the snake will be in its Hide 90% of the time. Around 8pm if its not light up like a Football Stadium they will come out before you go to bed.

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Originally Posted by Grub

Thank you for all the insight you offered in your reply. I'd really like to take you up on the elaboration on your other species because it seems to me, with what others have said about BPs, that maybe that isn't the species for me.

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You're welcome, I'm happy to help.

So I do have a BP. And based on what you said in your initial thread, it sounds like they're not the beat choice for you. I keep mine in a naturalistic glass enclosure, and rarely see him. There's even a saying you'll hear around the hobby "a hiding ball is a happy ball". So if you're looking for an animal you'll see exploring often, a BP won't likely satisfy that.
I also have a Borneo Short Tail Python...basically, see above. Very similar in that he spends almost 100% of his time hidden.

The next one that I keep is a western hognose. If you're thinking you want a snake on the smaller end of the spectrum that's a lot of fun look into these guys. Males stay pretty tiny (usually topping out around 18") but females get a fair amount bigger. These snakes are super cute, extremely inquisitive and have tons of personality. They even have some adorable "defensive" behaviors, including flattening out their heads to look like a cobra, hissing and bluff striking (it's adorable, check out YouTube to see what I mean) and in very rare occasions even play dead (I've only seen this in videos).
I do have to let you know they are rear-fanged and considered VERY mildly venomous. That being said, they almost NEVER bite, they prefer to bluff. And when they do their delivery system is HORRIBLE and they would need to hang on and chew on you for the venom to take effect. The results are quite varied, ranging from very minor itching, swelling and irritation to some serious swelling and allergic reaction.
So, if you're interested in these guys study up on them. (Although that goes for any pet)

Lastly, is my favorite species I have kept through the years. Kingsnakes.
I think of the species I have this would best meet your desires. They stay a very manageable size, handle well (though often nippy when young), are pretty active and will use every inch of their enclosures, and are very forgiving husbandry-wise. They also come in plenty of morphs and localities so you can find one on the smaller or larger size of the spectrum depending what you're looking for.

Other species I think you might enjoy are carpet pythons or boa constrictor imperators (BCIs). Both offer lots of options in size, look, etc...

Another thought is a Green Tree Python. Although not typically considered a "beginner" snake they make great display snakes. They are typically not handled often and most people who keep them set them up as display snakes.

Any which way you go, there are plenty of people on here who keep all sorts of species. So feel free to keep asking. People who keep those species will chime in and help you out.

Snakes,

I enjoy snakes because other people do not. I learned to love snakes because my Grandmother was deathly afraid of them, and she needed someone to relocate them from her yard and garage. They didn't bother me not one bit.

I got my first snakes at 10 years old. Wild Caught Garter Snakes from my yard. I had 1.1 for a long time, they had babies once or twice which I released back into the wild (I was a dumb kid, yes).

At 12 years old, my parents traded a local guy the parts he needed to upgrade his computer for his Female Ball Python (wild typE) and gave her to me for Christmas, I was thrilled. Looking back I had no clue. The internet was new, and did what I as told. Husbandry wasn't right, but she ate and I had her for 2 years until my parents divorced and I had to give her up because neither one wanted to have her while I was at the other's house. It sucked.

When I graduated High School, I went big. I got Retics and Burms. Loved them. I had them from 18-21 and had many large snakes in my house. Again, I was a dumb kid. One sick snake came in and I didn't quarantine like I should and then everyone was sick and I lost all my snakes over a period of about 6 months. Broke me.

A couple years later I got another Retic, had her for a year or so, got married, and the wife made me get rid of her. Didn't want something around that could eat the kids.

Now that I'm divorced I'm back in. I came back into this with all the learning I did as a younger man taken hold.

I use racks for a number of reasons.

1) You can clean a plastic tub a hell of a lot easier than you can a glass aquarium. They're lighter, they're made from a single injection molded piece, and are super light in comparison.

2) It's much more efficient when you plan on having multiple snakes. In less space than the (3) I have now were in their original tubs, I have space for (10) hatchling/juvenile ball pythons.

3) Single Thermostat for the rack. Instead of individual heat for each enclosure, one setup, one thermostat. All my spots are checked 2x a day with the laser probe, but temps are holding well.

4) As above, cramped dark spaces are NORMAL for a Ball Python. They aren't open land area hunters. Health of the Snakes > all in my book.

I interact with my snakes 2-3 times a week. I check on them more, but don't bring them out more than this. They're hand tame, but they're more there to look at and hold occasionally than they are to play with. I have a dog to have a pet to play with.

Best,

Paul

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Originally Posted by Grub

Thank you for all the insight you offered in your reply. I'd really like to take you up on the elaboration on your other species because it seems to me, with what others have said about BPs, that maybe that isn't the species for me.

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Well, don't rule them out because you want them to live 100% species specific and fear you are going to look at a tub or termite mound, only.

Just about NONE of our animals (whether pets, livestock or reptiles) live the way they would out in the wild. You want to keep the species in mind, you want the basic needs to be met 100% (in case of reptiles, that means heat, humidity, privacy) but aside from that there is some wiggle room to make things work and be pleasing to you.

In case of a Ball Python, just give them some time. If you get a young one or shy one, do provide those hides and privacy. You can still make an enclosure visually pleasing. You can also work your way up to a larger/busier place. After all, they can live 30+ years and part of the fun is to "grow with them". You will find many keepers on here that have their BP's in beautiful setups. All you have to do is keep the snakes well being as first priority. If you have one that is shy and won't eat, put the emphasis on smaller and darker. Doesn't mean it will always be that way.

They DO learn to trust, they do figure out their surroundings and get used to them. You will be able to handle and enjoy them. Just go at the snakes pace. Establish the animal well (get it feeding) Develop trust. "Anything worth having is worth waiting for". Ball Pythons are awesome snakes. Before moving I had a large collection. I've had Redtail Boas, a Carpet Python, Blood Python, Green Tree Pythons, Rubber Boas (yes, there is such a thing, lol..), Brazilian Rainbow Boa, Russian Ratsnakes, a Bearded Dragon and a Tegu. Plus my Ball Pythons and the rescues I took in (sick, starved BP's)

Now all I have are BP's. One of them in a beautiful Display. They can be quite rewarding, I enjoy them immensely. For what they are. And they certainly can have a range of personalities. I've had some that were SO chill and easygoing I got into the habit to lift their chin and kiss the top of their heads while I carried them around. There was no head or anything shyness about them and they were the ones I took to schools and wildlife parks, for education. Some never get super comfortable with handling, but most learn to trust and with age/size they get a lot more confident. You just have to learn not to freak out over the long fasting they do. Its part of them, and nothing to be worried about, as long as they are healthy.

Of course there are a ton of other species, some of which enjoy a huge and beautiful display cage and make good use of every square inch of it. The ones that like to be out and about and "watch" you. The most interactive species I've ever had were my Russian Ratsnakes by far. Very nosy, very into your business. As adults they were so curious and personable, I would take one out on walks. Something I would NEVER do with most any other species. But they like cooler temps so when the weather was right Scarlett went into my hoodie. She was resting on my belly and I supported her with my hand on the outside of my hoodie. Her little head would peek out from above the zipper and she would just look around. Most people never even noticed she was there, sometimes not even when they stopped and talked to me, unless they looked real close :D I still remember he little head nodding with every step I took. She stayed in that position the entire walk. They also love to climb, so a large display cage would be awesome for a species such as that and since they don't need tropical temps, its easy to make a huge display cage for a species such as that.

Just take your time deciding. There is something for everyone ;) But don't rule out the BP's because of their unique needs. You can work with that and enjoy your animals ;)

I was brought up with a deadly fear of snakes. When I had my daughter, she was fascinated with all animals. Heck we volunteer at the shelter a minimum of twice a week. The treat is like paid employees now. Well she got interested in snakes and I told myself that I was not going to teach her to be afraid. So I educated myself as much as I could for over 2 years before buying my first snake. Now I find myself going to shops on a weekday basis to handle different snakes as I’m looking to start keeping several different species. I feel something special when I’m with a snake, can’t describe it. I’m to the point where I’m not scared of any non venomous snake at all. U learn to read them and it’s fun as heck!! I keep mine in tanks because I owned an exotic fish company and I have tanks galore. But I’m thinking of going to a rack system when I start breeding.

I think what everyone said about ball pythons are correct. I personally would not recommend them for someone who never had a snake before, especially if you are a worry type of person. Their feeding strikes are a pain. However, it is doable, ball pythons-once it settled down and eats well-are a joy to have, either in a rack or glass tank. I have mine in a tub but I also met people keeping theirs successfully in glass tanks so it all depends on what you want, what does your bp need, and how much work you will out into it.

I would recommend king snakes and woma pythons. Many of said that they can be nippy as babies (rightfully so if everything wants you for dinner), but mine are calm and easy to handle. Great feeders, hardy and not too big.

Another option is to look into lizards. Blue tongue skinks are easy to feed, hardy, easy to handle and they are curious little buggers. I change Homer's decor around his tank every month and he will investigate if something new is added or something old has been moved. They will explore their terrarium, after they finish their long nap (They also like their sleep). I have a bearded dragon and leopard gecko too but BTS, in my opinion, even as a display pet, are more interesting to keep.

Regarding rack systems, I see both sides of the argument. I use individual tubs, and only for my bp and dumerils boa, because they do better in them. Otherwise, they are in glass tanks or pvc. I think racks are great for certain species who do better in them, and when they are used, I believe the keeper should add something in there for stimulation other than a water bowl and butcher paper.

I like keeping different kinds of snakes because each species are so unique and interesting in its own right. They are not dogs, cats or lizards. They are snakes, who survived so much and seems to do pretty darn well for a creature with no limbs. So hopefully that answered all your questions.

Out of the species I own I can tell you that while I love Sand Boas, Hognose and BP they make very poor display snake, you can have the most elaborated display and you will never see them. So what do I love about them, I love their personalities, paint job and snakes have always been fascinating to me, but if I really want to see them I have to spend the time and handle them.

Now as far as display animal arboreal and semi arboreal species will make the best display animal.

So it comes down to the owner's expectation really and what matters to them. My only displays are actually not snakes but geckos.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Out of the species I own I can tell you that while I love Sand Boas, Hognose and BP they make very poor display snake, you can have the most elaborated display and you will never see them. So what do I love about them, I love their personalities, paint job and snakes have always been fascinating to me, but if I really want to see them I have to spend the time and handle them.

Now as far as display animal arboreal and semi arboreal species will make the best display animal.

So it comes down to the owner's expectation really and what matters to them. My only displays are actually not snakes but geckos.

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The thing is, they don't HAVE to be good display animals. An attractive enclosure is still attractive, even if the animal only shows up once in a blue moon. The rosy boa is frequently out, and the king is active in the evening. I certainly appreciate it when the corn is curled up on his ledge - overlooking a verdant kingdom of potos - but that lush planted tank is pretty even w/o him.

We really LOVE it when someone researches BEFORE they get a snake (or any other pet, for that matter). Far too many just "impulse-buy" & there are so many
kinds of snakes, that can turn out poorly; some are much easier than others to care for, there's all colors & sizes, as well as various behaviors & habits.

I've kept many snakes for many years, & I am a fan of housing them in glass tanks as I want to be able to see them, see their behaviors, know if anything is wrong,
& just enjoy the look of the whole set-up. I also think that for species that don't hide constantly, they become calmer & more used to human presence than a snake
which is kept in a tub- many of my snakes watch me as much as I watch them. I like to install scenery on the outside of the back & sides both for the snake's privacy
& overall appearance. My cages are a compromise between natural-looking & practical; I've never attempted bio-active (& never will). I use natural branches & drift-
wood in my cages for the snakes to climb on (it helps their muscle tone) and I've also found that many enjoy and use platforms attached to the branches, so in addition
to hides on the cage floor (one warm side & one cool side) I wire a basket into their branches. The rounded bowl-shape of a basket (like you'd find in a thrift store- very
inexpensive accessory) apparently offers a feeling of security, as I find many of my snakes will even sleep in their baskets. This means I get to see more of them. ;)

Handling: it's a little surprising to find that once snakes know & feel comfortable with you, they don't have to be handled all the time to maintain that trust. That may
be in part due to the fact that my snakes see me on a regular basis, even when not handled, so handling is less startling to them, but always remember that the only
thing that picks up a snake in the wild is a predator trying to eat them. If you "politely" give your snake time to recognize you (by scent!) it really helps. I've taken many
of my snakes to do programs, many of them "meet & greets" where strangers touch & even hold them, & they handle it very well (no bites ever). I enjoy changing minds
about snakes (from fear to admiration) & my snakes always handle it like pro's.

Species I love & recommend: I've kept BPs before but they aren't my thing. I had a wonderful & cuddly BCI (rescue) for many years, but she got bigger than I prefer.
My favorites are rat snakes: the most mellow are Trans Pecos, they get about 4', and Bairds, they get about 6'. I enjoy corn snakes as well as other U.S. natives: black
rat snakes (including amelanistic, with pretty orange patterns on cream), Everglades (orange w/ yellow chins), gray rat snakes (patterns/shades of gray), & I currently
have 2.2 Florida yellow (x Gulf Hammock) rat snakes- the males are about 7' & the females only about 5' (since they keep producing eggs every year).
If you'd like a small python, one that hangs out on branches (esp. at night) & isn't shy or fussy about eating f/t, look into an Australian spotted python...mine is a hoot & easy to handle, no bigger than a corn snake, & while she needs a warmer cage (& a humid hide to shed well) she doesn't need more than a 30-40 gal. tank.

Like many others, I’ve had a fascination with snakes...and lizards and frogs...since I was a kid. I just found them incredibly interesting. Currently all of my snakes (11) are in pvc or plastic enclosures, black with plexi doors. This gives some privacy to the snake, but a large window for my viewing - to see the snakes but also see when the cage needs cleaning. I’ve used tanks and homemade cages in the past and just find the pvc/plastic to be easier to heat and clean. I keep minimalist setups for ease of cleaning - hides, water bowl, and a couple of cages have branches for climbing. I’m thinking about adding more climbing options to some of the other cages for enrichment, but don’t know that the snakes will use them. We’ll see.

I currently have 5 different species: a Colombian redtail boa (Bci), a Colombian rainbow boa, a Solomon Island ground boa, 7 ball pythons, and a corn snake. In general, if you look in all of my cages you will only see my Colombian redtail and Solomon Island ground boas, and sometimes the Colombian rainbow boa. The rest of the cages appear empty. :rolleyes: Even so, I enjoy my pets and handle the ones that are more tolerant of it every week or two, though everybody gets a short handling session when I do cage cleaning.

As for why I have 7 ball pythons and counting? I love the color and pattern morphs, as well as how easy they are to handle. My two newest ones are not being handled much because I am trying to get both eating consistently. Once that is happening, I’ll start short handling sessions. I’m thinking of adding another snake or two, possibly another species that is more visible. I’ve kept a couple of different types of carpet pythons in the past, which were more active and arboreal, so I saw them more. I’m also looking at Childrens, Spotted, and Anthill pythons. Plus it’s just fun to window shop. :D

Disclaimer before I say anything, I am by no means an expert & have not kept any reptiles besides my BP, so please take this with a grain of salt lol
I've heard a lot about garter snakes being good beginner-intermediate snakes, they're handleable, can be co-habbed and are more active than bps so they would utilize a naturalistic enclosure more. There aren't really any fancy morphs but there's quite a few varieties that looks slightly different & I think they're all just gorgeous. And they musk, but I caught tons of wild garter snakes as a kid and was never musked once haha.
Again, I have never kept any garters so there's a chance I could be totally wrong about this, but I did briefly look into them before I decided on getting a bp & I've interacted with them in the wild, & they seem lovely :P

Having had both racks AND display enclosures (pvc cages) for my ball pythons, I can tell you that the same snakes hide just as much in the display enclosure as they do in a rack. They don't make great display snakes, because their natural behavior is just that as others have said- hiding in a hole for 90% of the 24 hour day.

"Enrichment" in the trendy sense that's been spreading, is of course nice for the snakes when they do come out at midnight~4am. But even when "out and about", in the ball python sense, is still just laying in one spot... Just outside of their hide. Sometimes with only half their bodies out of their hide. Sometimes they'll move around a bit just to lay in a different spot, waiting to ambush their prey. When they're done laying around outside of their hide, they return to their hide to lay around.

During the day, their entire bodies are in the hide, including the head. I hardly see them at all, if ever, during the day. Unless they're literally starving or underfed, that forces them to actively hunt for food during the day as well. You'll find they show much more activity when underfed, which is why many newbie keepers want to call their ball pythons "an active species". LOL

Handling a ball python is really for the owner's purposes and entertainment, so it would not make you neglectful. Do what you enjoy doing! The vast majority of ball pythons tolerate being held and toyed with by humans very well, just naturally calm and tolerant snakes, which is the reason why they're such popular pets.

This topic of "enrichment/display cages vs racks" has been talked to death over and over, usually by newbie keepers... The reason being, they are partially projecting what they want to see onto their snake, and having never had actual active snake species to compare to. If you want to compare ball pythons to a rock or a snail- sure, they're active! LOL

I have some anxiety issues, and I find my snakes very therapeutic. They have a nice gentle squeeze and smooth and delicate touch when they are using me like a tree. I am forced to relax because then that keeps the snake relaxed. There are days when I am stressed at work, and I can't wait to come home and hold my snakes, because I know it will calm me right down. (Wish I could take them to work!!)

They provide companionship. I have one that loves to be in my bathrobe pocket, which she hangs out in most mornings while I make my coffee. They give you something to connect to. I love seeing them poke their heads out of their hides.

In many ways they are the perfect pet. I have allergies and after petting the cats I itch and sneeze. Not so with the snakes.

They are convenient. They don't eat every day. They are quiet, and they don't take up much space.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

This topic of "enrichment/display cages vs racks" has been talked to death over and over, usually by newbie keepers... The reason being, they are partially projecting what they want to see onto their snake, and having never had actual active snake species to compare to. If you want to compare ball pythons to a rock or a snail- sure, they're active! LOL

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LOL yes

Both my snakes have very beautiful setups. I'm always finding ways to tweak and beautify. The BP could care less. The ratsnake will be quick to check out the new stuff. She reminds me of a cat when you bring something new home. My boyfriend jokes that it's like playing dollhouse for grown-ups.

I do have to say though, that both our BP's in the house become very active at night. It's fun to catch them crawling on branches and periscoping with the flashlight in the middle of the night. My daughter says her BP, which is kept in her room, will sometimes periscope over too far and bonk softly against the side of the glass.

When it comes to keeping snakes, there's "something for everybody"...everybody with an open mind, anyway.

When I had a large BCI, I was surprised at just how long she was content to snuggle around my waist & watch movies. The hard part was getting her back into
her cage, lol.

For those who like active snakes, there are plenty at that end of the spectrum. Coachwhips & semi-arboreal snakes (along the lines of Taiwan Beauty rat snakes)
& even garter snakes can be lots of fun. I like to both handle & watch my snakes, so the moderately active & very tolerant and curious rat snakes top my list. The
pituophis family (gopher, bull & pine snakes) are fun too, not gigantic, & seem very intelligent, though they can be restless in cages (they are active hunters!).

There is every size range and level of risk available too, for those who want to take keeping snakes to another level. The giants aren't for me personally, and when
I kept rattlesnakes, it wasn't "because" they were venomous, but in spite of that. For someone who has always loved animals but didn't expect to get into snakes,
it sure has been an interesting journey & I wouldn't trade it for anything.

There are so many beautiful & excellent kinds of pet snakes that are fairly easy to care for & that stay a manageable size: I agree with you FollowTheSun, snakes
have a calming effect, & I accidentally noticed that some get really mellow when you sit in a swaying hammock (or rocking chair) with them, so it begs the question
as to who is calming who? ;) No matter...like many other pets, snakes help us be "in the moment". When I first got into snakes, I had a very stressful job, and
like you, I discovered that having empathy for my snakes resulted in the same soothing mood that I was trying to bring out in them. Funny how that works...?

I only have ball pythons. At first I got one because they are docile, fairly large, and easy to handle. Then I enjoyed watching it in its enclosure, more than handling it. It is true that they hide most of the time, but at night they come out and I have exoterra night bulbs, which are very dim purple "moonlight" heat bulbs. The ball pythons love to come out at night and crawl around my three large Neodesha display cages. I also have 8 other snakes in a rack system. I use the largest tubs possible and put hides in the tubs, so they can move around and regulate their temperature.

I MUCH PREFER THE NEODESHA DISPLAY CAGES! It is very enjoyable for me to watch them come out at night and hang out. My large normal female is super friendly and extroverted. She will hang out in the open basking in the heat lamp for hours. When I slide open the glass doors, she slithers towards me nonchalantly like, "hey, lets hang out, what is happening?"

The ball pythons that live in the rack, I really don't get to enjoy them much at all. I never see them, and basically just enjoy feeding them once per week, and as we all know, even that can be frustrating when they refuse to eat for whatever reason. I am enjoying the morphs and the idea of breeding, hence the rack system to keep multiple snakes. If and when I ever retire form the breeding projects, I will probably sell off all of my collection, save for my favorite most extroverted 3 snakes, which I will keep in the Neodesha's as pets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

I only have ball pythons. At first I got one because they are docile, fairly large, and easy to handle. Then I enjoyed watching it in its enclosure, more than handling it. It is true that they hide most of the time, but at night they come out and I have exoterra night bulbs, which are very dim purple "moonlight" heat bulbs. The ball pythons love to come out at night and crawl around my three large Neodesha display cages. I also have 8 other snakes in a rack system. I use the largest tubs possible and put hides in the tubs, so they can move around and regulate their temperature.

I MUCH PREFER THE NEODESHA DISPLAY CAGES! It is very enjoyable for me to watch them come out at night and hang out. My large normal female is super friendly and extroverted. She will hang out in the open basking in the heat lamp for hours. When I slide open the glass doors, she slithers towards me nonchalantly like, "hey, lets hang out, what is happening?"

The ball pythons that live in the rack, I really don't get to enjoy them much at all. I never see them, and basically just enjoy feeding them once per week, and as we all know, even that can be frustrating when they refuse to eat for whatever reason. I am enjoying the morphs and the idea of breeding, hence the rack system to keep multiple snakes. If and when I ever retire form the breeding projects, I will probably sell off all of my collection, save for my favorite most extroverted 3 snakes, which I will keep in the Neodesha's as pets.

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I love my Neodesha slant cage. And I loved the 6 I used to have (4 footers) but I sold them prior to a move. Now I only have the one 36 inch cage.

Just a couple of weeks ago I decided to update to the 4 ft. one and guess what...they don't make them anymore !!! I'm so upset. I really think they make the NICEST display cages ever. Wide open view. Easy to maintain heat and humidity, easy to clean. And none of those PVC concerns.

I decided to look for used ones, but no luck, all way to far away and as paranoid as I am, I would have a hard time with used until I bleach them for days.


You got very lucky with those 3 you got.


Eventually, when I decide to stop breeding, I will only have 3 to 6 animals or so, and I will handpick my favorites from my own hatchlings. Personality and looks wise ;) We all know they will be Desert Ghost somethings :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

I love my Neodesha slant cage. And I loved the 6 I used to have (4 footers) but I sold them prior to a move. Now I only have the one 36 inch cage.

Just a couple of weeks ago I decided to update to the 4 ft. one and guess what...they don't make them anymore !!! I'm so upset. I really think they make the NICEST display cages ever. Wide open view. Easy to maintain heat and humidity, easy to clean. And none of those PVC concerns.

I decided to look for used ones, but no luck, all way to far away and as paranoid as I am, I would have a hard time with used until I bleach them for days.


You got very lucky with those 3 you got.


Eventually, when I decide to stop breeding, I will only have 3 to 6 animals or so, and I will handpick my favorites from my own hatchlings. Personality and looks wise ;) We all know they will be Desert Ghost somethings :)

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REALLY!? Wow, I feel really lucky to have the 4 foot long Neodesha's. I agree with you that they are the best display cages ever, as far as I know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

REALLY!? Wow, I feel really lucky to have the 4 foot long Neodesha's. I agree with you that they are the best display cages ever, as far as I know.

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Yup.

The web page is disabled (the cart). They are selling car parts on ebay now. They told me they will sell cages again, but only the stackable ones. I don't like those as much. I keep hoping they will change their mind or that they sell that part of the business.

Those Neodeshas have been around forever. True and tried. If only I had gotten the bigger one while I could.

Not that a Ball Python male "needs" a 4 footer, but I have space for it and my male is quite large. He has settled so nicely into that cage and I figured going from that one to the 4 ft one would not be to much stress as the cage is just about the same, just a bit longer.

Sigh, I will keep checking ebay and craigslist, but I live to rural to luck out like you did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

Yup.

The web page is disabled (the cart). They are selling car parts on ebay now. They told me they will sell cages again, but only the stackable ones. I don't like those as much. I keep hoping they will change their mind or that they sell that part of the business.

Those Neodeshas have been around forever. True and tried. If only I had gotten the bigger one while I could.

Not that a Ball Python male "needs" a 4 footer, but I have space for it and my male is quite large. He has settled so nicely into that cage and I figured going from that one to the 4 ft one would not be to much stress as the cage is just about the same, just a bit longer.

Sigh, I will keep checking ebay and craigslist, but I live to rural to luck out like you did.

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I enjoy playing hide and seek with my snakes for brown hotdogs buried in the substrate.....or the pile of urate they manage to bury and it had enough time to set up and become concrete lol.

sorry to get off on this tangent, but I found a link to the 48" neodeshas'....http://npicages.com/48_cage_3_pack.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

sorry to get off on this tangent, but I found a link to the 48" neodeshas'....http://npicages.com/48_cage_3_pack.html

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Yes, and when you try to add them to the cart, it says shopping cart disabled. They do not use this website anymore.
They went to "ebay only" and last time I checked it was plastic car parts, although they said they will have the stackable cages available again...

Thanks for looking though :)

This is my big boy checking out his new homemade shelf. The other one was to small so I made a bigger one.

It will have more of a plant curtain to hide behind..eventually.

I made another shelf that I can play around with, waterproof with pond liner and add driftwood or bamboo and fake plants. While that one is in the works, he can play with the plain version [emoji4]

He always looks so small in pictures. His middle is bigger around then my upper arm!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0cd867008f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ee2244b9b9.jpg


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