Weird Behavior

Hey guys,

My 4 year old ball has been acting odd lately. He is constantly trying to escape the viv and I cannot figure out why. I have him in an Animal Plastics cage and he keeps shoving his head in the crack between the glass and PVC. He has been pushing super hard on the glass and I can see it sometimes moving his mouth from pushing so hard. He has been really healthy up till now and everything has been great.

I have him in an Animal Plastics t3 with RHP for heat. He has two black hides from LLLreptile. Warm side is always 86-88F and the ambient is 79-80F always. Humidity is 60% usually.

He has been eating normally and fed every 10 days on small rats. Consistent weight. Has not been fasting. All feces and pee is cleaned and he gets a full cage disinfectant and cage breakdown every 30 days.

One thing I've noticed recently is the cage has an odd smell.. It almost is chemically smell mixed with wood chips.. I have had him in the SAME cage with SAME decor for two years and it has never been a problem..

For the life of me I just cannot figure this out. I am worried he will hurt himself.

Have you checked around the RHP for any discoloration of the plastic? Heat doesn't always play well with plastic- plastics break down & the fumes are typically
toxic. AP's are made of PVC, if I'm not mistaken? I've seen people say they smell, so imagine how much stronger that would be to a snake kept inside "24/7"
with very little ventilation. And I think you can answer this for yourself....just do a search for "PVC toxic fumes" & do a little reading. This is why I house my
snakes in glass tanks, glass is inert & won't melt, & it sure doesn't off-gas toxic vapors. It sounds to me like your snake is telling you he needs fresh air.

One of many articles: http://www.chej.org/pvcfactsheets/Th...n_Plastic.html

I would like to see some sources that is not Quora on this topic... I know many keepers on this site use AP all the time with no problems whatsoever...

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Originally Posted by maausen

I would like to see some sources that is not Quora on this topic... I know many keepers on this site use AP all the time with no problems whatsoever...

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I just grabbed a couple articles very quick...search for yourself...I know ppl use plastic cages, but you are seeing your snake in distress & I'm just giving you
a likely (though "inconvenient") reason, especially since even YOU can smell it. I feel the same way about plastic smell as your snake does, I use glass tanks.
And just because plastic is "everywhere" doesn't make it safe. It's used for water pipes...but those aren't HEATED as your cages are. When you add energy
(heat), it off-gases...and you're breathing it too, but you are much bigger and you aren't breathing the same concentration as your snake is. And you have
a choice & the ability to come & go, unlike your snake.

Well, I do appreciate your feedback on the topic. I honestly think the smell could be more of a urate not found..

If there's a strange smell I would start with deep cleaning and see if that changes anything. Be sure to check temps in several places to make sure nothing has malfunctioned.

Mine does the same behavior and he's been in an AP cage for over a year. He only does it on the right side of the cage and not every night, but yeah he will wedge his head in and arch is neck and strains to try and fit himself in the crack (he's 1100ish grams and it ain't gonna happen!). I solved it but hanging a towel over that side of the cage - I roll it up during the day - then when the cage lights go out the "curtain" comes down.

He only does it at night, or when I've just taken everything out and deep cleaned - but if the towel is down he switches to the left side to glass surf where the gap isn't wide enough for him to wedge his head, whether it is day or night. I've even put my phone on record and watched - if the towel is down he either sits still like he's been defeated or switches to the other side.

*IF there is a weird smell though, I would check all your heat sources - if the RHP is malfunctioning it could be putting off weird vibes*

Just out of curiosity, how much light is in the room where your snoot is kept? Mine is in the living room and my fiance is a night owl that is usually up until 4-5am with at least the computer light and a small table lamp on so I've wondered if the extra light at night bothers him(the snake). That was the main reason for the towel too, it covers 2/3rds of the cage front and really makes a difference in the amount of light that enters it.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

glass is inert

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The debate of glass being a liquid or solid at room temperature has been a debate for decades. Just throwing useless information out there. LOL

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Glass, however, is actually neither a liquid—supercooled or otherwise—nor a solid. It is an amorphous solid—a state somewhere between those two states of matter. And yet glass's liquidlike properties are not enough to explain the thicker-bottomed windows, because glass atoms move too slowly for changes to be visible.

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How would I go about making sure it is not a RHP problem? I bought mine from Bob at ProProducts..

I did a deep clean and it definitely made the smell go away. However, now its starting to come back again and I am worried.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maausen

How would I go about making sure it is not an RHP problem? I bought mine from Bob at ProProducts..

I did a deep clean and it definitely made the smell go away. However, now it's starting to come back again and I am worried.

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Like stated above check for discoloration or deformities in the plastic make sure your RHP is not getting too hot so temp gun it and the plastic behind it.

If all of this does not pinpoint you may have to add elements to the enclosure one by one over a period of time(An old enclosure setup or even a quarantine setup to store your noodle in while this is happening would be advised) First remove your noodle and then the substrate clean the enclosure. But after you done cleaning DO NOT put more substrate in.

then wait for a few for the smell(How long this goes in depends on the average time it took the smell to come back after deep cleaning.

remove hides and repeat the rest of the above

continue removing elements until it is just the tank and it heating elements and then leave those on.

Continue to do this and then pinpoint the origin of the smell.

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Originally Posted by maausen

Hey guys,

My 4 year old ball has been acting odd lately. He is constantly trying to escape the viv and I cannot figure out why. I have him in an Animal Plastics cage and he keeps shoving his head in the crack between the glass and PVC. He has been pushing super hard on the glass and I can see it sometimes moving his mouth from pushing so hard. He has been really healthy up till now and everything has been great.

I have him in an Animal Plastics t3 with RHP for heat. He has two black hides from LLLreptile. Warm side is always 86-88F and the ambient is 79-80F always. Humidity is 60% usually.

He has been eating normally and fed every 10 days on small rats. Consistent weight. Has not been fasting. All feces and pee is cleaned and he gets a full cage disinfectant and cage breakdown every 30 days.

One thing I've noticed recently is the cage has an odd smell.. It almost is chemically smell mixed with wood chips.. I have had him in the SAME cage with SAME decor for two years and it has never been a problem..

For the life of me I just cannot figure this out. I am worried he will hurt himself.

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Have you checked the surface temps with a digital temp gun or a probed thermometer??

Quite often the behaviour you've described can simply be that they're far too warm .


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Originally Posted by maausen

Hey guys,

My 4 year old ball has been acting odd lately. He is constantly trying to escape the viv and I cannot figure out why. I have him in an Animal Plastics cage and he keeps shoving his head in the crack between the glass and PVC. He has been pushing super hard on the glass and I can see it sometimes moving his mouth from pushing so hard. He has been really healthy up till now and everything has been great.

I have him in an Animal Plastics t3 with RHP for heat. He has two black hides from LLLreptile. Warm side is always 86-88F and the ambient is 79-80F always. Humidity is 60% usually.

He has been eating normally and fed every 10 days on small rats. Consistent weight. Has not been fasting. All feces and pee is cleaned and he gets a full cage disinfectant and cage breakdown every 30 days.

One thing I've noticed recently is the cage has an odd smell.. It almost is chemically smell mixed with wood chips.. I have had him in the SAME cage with SAME decor for two years and it has never been a problem..

For the life of me I just cannot figure this out. I am worried he will hurt himself.

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Have you checked the surface temps with a digital temp gun or a probed thermometer??

Quite often the behaviour you've described can simply be that they're far too warm .


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Yes I use a probed thermometer and a temp gun as well. Surface always stays 85-88F.

No visible plastic melting or anything like that. SO CONFUSED...

I decided to take out my plastic fake plants from the viv. I now only have a grapewood branch and two black hides in there. I am going to monitor the situation and see how this pans out. He is currently just starting a shed cycle so I am not planning to do anything drastic. I will keep this updated.

Please let me know if anyone has had this experience or can think of any underlying reasons. Thank you!

The proper search term for information on material safety is "PVC safety data sheet." If you read any of these, they say that PVC is generally regarded as inert, unless ground into a powder that becomes airborne or if subject to thermal degredation, which occurs at such high temperatures that your poor snake would have much bigger problems.

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He could also be feeling the urge to "wander and breed" . Its the time of the year. Even if he has never done it before, sometimes something sets them off and males will try to wander.

That doesn't explain the weird smell of course , so double check your husbandry.

Are there any female snakes close by? Could it be you handled a female and then him and he smelled her?

Not so far out there then it sounds. My male didn't seem to even care about females or breeding for years. 2 years ago I decided to breed some of my BP's (all were 7 years old) I didn't use this male for breeding though. I remember I showed off one of the females to a family friend. Right afterwards I took out my big male (the non breeding one) and noticed how he was very intent on smelling (with his tongue) my arm where the female had been. For the first time ever he started cruising a lot while also refusing food. He ended up taking a 8 month break from eating !!

The next year he took a 6 month break from eating. No nonstop cruising, though.

Never know, hormones can be a funny thing.. :rolleyes:

I definitely would usually say his wandering is up to hormones but since there was an odd smell I never smelt before, I was worried this was upsetting him. However, after a few days WITHOUT plastic fake plants in there, the smell has vanished :confusd:.

No ladies in the house for him. He's got the life of a bachelor!


However, Zina and Zincubus, I believe I remember you two using PVC caging. What do you think about this "PVC safety" stuff?

This is the time of year when male ball pythons "thoughts" begin to turn to sexy time and they try harder to get out of their enclosures. While this is going on, the females are trying to lie cooler than usual.

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Originally Posted by maausen

How would I go about making sure it is not a RHP problem? I bought mine from Bob at ProProducts..

I did a deep clean and it definitely made the smell go away. However, now its starting to come back again and I am worried.

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I know what the smell is.. I posted last year on something similar.. you mentioned LLLReptile. Last year Reptile Basics was out of hides so I bought a Hide from LLL who is a RBI distributor. After one day one of my AP enclosures stunk to high hell... it was the Hide. I called LLL and argued they were NOT RBI HIDES. They disagreed. I called RBI and talked to Bob. He explained his process of molding for his Hides and the ones I got were Not his hides even though LLL lists them as his. I sent them back, got a refund and Bob sent me his. Boom NO SMELL. There are replica’s all over the internet calling then RBI hides. Ebay, amazon and over seas’s distributors and manufacturers are using a different plastic/pvc that stinks once it hits 85 degrees. RBI called LLL and I dont know what came of it but he sent me a free shirt and didnt charge me shipping because of the problem. Even though some people have great experiences with LLL I will never do business with them again. Of course the customer service department new nothing about what happened and I don’t blame the girl that answered the phone however that was a straight up lie and misrepresentation of products. Get a RBI hide and id bet the smell goes away. Also I use all Pro Products RHP’s, there is nothing to cause a smell in them. Ive taken them apart to see how they are made. Simple manufacture. I do smell the “new smell” everytime i get another one, but not a chemical smell.
As far as Skating the glass.... you didn’t say what time of day or night this is happening, my ball pythons come out in the evening around 8 PM until 5AM climbing and searching. This is normal behavior and you will never see mine out during the day.
If what you’re explaining is day time searching that’s another story. I’d still start with those hides since that was my personal experience one year ago.


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Thank you very much for sharing that. I definitely will look into the hides. I can't believe people can sell fake hides with a brand name and get away with it :O

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Originally Posted by maausen

I definitely would usually say his wandering is up to hormones but since there was an odd smell I never smelt before, I was worried this was upsetting him. However, after a few days WITHOUT plastic fake plants in there, the smell has vanished :confusd:.

No ladies in the house for him. He's got the life of a bachelor!


However, Zina and Zincubus, I believe I remember you two using PVC caging. What do you think about this "PVC safety" stuff?

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No sorry ... only wood or glass vivariums ..


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by maausen

Thank you very much for sharing that. I definitely will look into the hides. I can't believe people can sell fake hides with a brand name and get away with it :O

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Update? Hows everything going?


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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

Update? Hows everything going?


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Well I for sure thought it was the plastic plants.. but sure enough the smell came back! So I did what you said and purchased new hides from RBI. Currently just using cereal boxes as hides till the new ones get here. Now without the hides in, the smell is gone again. Crossing fingers the RBI hides will solve it!

You said you use AP as well? Do your snakes ever lodge their heads in between the crack of the glass door and PVC itself? Worrisome?

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Originally Posted by maausen

Well I for sure thought it was the plastic plants.. but sure enough the smell came back! So I did what you said and purchased new hides from RBI. Currently just using cereal boxes as hides till the new ones get here. Now without the hides in, the smell is gone again. Crossing fingers the RBI hides will solve it!

You said you use AP as well? Do your snakes ever lodge their heads in between the crack of the glass door and PVC itself? Worrisome?

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If the smell is gone its the hides. Send those back. Call LLL. I was pissed they sold a cheap hide calling it RBI. The RBI hide sides go strait up and down |—| where the junk ones tapered in at about a 45 dergee angle to the top. /—\

A small Ball can on the Right sides... only 1 of mine did that. I just cut out a 1/2” peice of foam insulation board for the one side. Here is a Pic. Bottom enclosure has the Insulation board. You could run it as a L for side and Bottom i just did the top too.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...28e3e148e2.jpg

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

If the smell is gone its the hides. Send those back. Call LLL. I was pissed they sold a cheap hide calling it RBI. The RBI hide sides go strait up and down |—| where the junk ones tapered in at about a 45 dergee angle to the top. /—\

A small Ball can on the Right sides... only 1 of mine did that. I just cut out a 1/2” peice of foam insulation board for the one side. Here is a Pic. Bottom enclosure has the Insulation board. You could run it as a L for side and Bottom i just did the top too.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...28e3e148e2.jpg

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If it isn’t too much trouble, would you mind showing a close up of the foam you’re talking about? Maybe walk me through what you did. I’m not sure what I am looking at. I appreciate it!

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Originally Posted by maausen

If it isn’t too much trouble, would you mind showing a close up of the foam you’re talking about? Maybe walk me through what you did. I’m not sure what I am looking at. I appreciate it!

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...heres a Close up. The Silver stuff is called insulation board from Home Depot or Lowe’s, it comes in sheets around 2‘ x 4‘. I just measured the inside Up:Down and Left:Right then used a ruler to make the lines and Cut it with a razor knife. Depending on what enclosure you get the up-and-down height will be different, mines 24” tall by 4’ long. So i went around 20” up and 20” Left. This sits behind glass in the track so the snake can’t get between the lip and the glass

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9b9b0fbce1.jpg


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

...heres a Close up. The Silver stuff is called insulation board from Home Depot or Lowe’s, it comes in sheets around 2‘ x 4‘. I just measured the inside Up:Down and Left:Right then used a ruler to make the lines and Cut it with a razor knife. Depending on what enclosure you get the up-and-down height will be different, mines 24” tall by 4’ long. So i went around 20” up and 20” Left. This sits behind glass in the track so the snake can’t get between the lip and the glass

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...9b9b0fbce1.jpg


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That is genius! Love it. Thanks CALM!

Great thread. Thanks

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Originally Posted by maausen

You said you use AP as well? Do your snakes ever lodge their heads in between the crack of the glass door and PVC itself? Worrisome?

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Mine does this all the time - also only on the right side of course. Luckily snakes aren't the smartest and I just hang a dark towel over the right side of the cage - he then moves to the left side and window surfs until he decides to go back into a hide or climb his sticks instead. He wedges at both top and bottom if his "curtain" is not down.

I like the foam board idea, but can you still open the left side with that in? I've toyed with putting something there, but didn't want to remove access to the left side of the cage.

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Originally Posted by Crowfingers

Mine does this all the time - also only on the right side of course. Luckily snakes aren't the smartest and I just hang a dark towel over the right side of the cage - he then moves to the left side and window surfs until he decides to go back into a hide or climb his sticks instead. He wedges at both top and bottom if his "curtain" is not down.

I like the foam board idea, but can you still open the left side with that in? I've toyed with putting something there, but didn't want to remove access to the left side of the cage.

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Nope i have to pull the foam board out to open the left side hahaha.. PITA but solved the problem. I did a black sheet also and that gave them a better hiding place hahaha.. relentless little buggers.


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