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  • 11-05-2018, 12:06 AM
    Abigail23
    Is my baby ball python going to starve himself??!
    If you’ve seen my other threads on here you know I’ve been struggling to get this baby to eat. He’s about 2 months old and I rescued him from a bad situation. He was fed 5 live hopper mice meals before I got him, but here in NY I don’t have access to live feeders. I waited a week before I fed him and made sure to thaw out his mice and warm it up to make it seemed alive for him. Wiggled it around but he did not move. He didn’t leave his vines (he loves climbing his vines and hides in them). Today (a week after the last attempt) I tried to feed again. Wiggled it around... no reaction. Put it near his vines. He went and smelled it. Currently left it on the bottom of his tank. He still up in his vines and seems to have no intentions of going to eat.

    I’m getting really worried because he’s so young and not eating for almost 3 weeks seems dangerous since he doesn’t have any fat stored to gather energy from.

    Ive heard of putting them in a paper bag with the feeder and seeing if they eat. Should I try that right now or should I just leave the mice in all night?

    I feel like I’m going crazy from all this stress!!! 😫

    hes in a 10 gallon. Weighs 65 grams, his temps are good and so is his humidity. Hides are his size and even stuffed with crumpled paper to be more snug. Even has a blanket that covers his tank for privacy.
    I don’t know why he’s not eating :(


    i know assist feeding is a big no and should be the LAST resort. But will he die if I don’t try to assist feed?

    (sorry if there’s typos, was typing this in a hurry)
  • 11-05-2018, 12:20 AM
    zina10
    How are you warming up the mice ? How do you transport the warmed up mice to the tank ?
  • 11-05-2018, 12:22 AM
    Abigail23
    Re: Is my baby ball python going to starve himself??!
    I put the mice in a plastic zipblock bag and emerge it into warm/hot water for about an hour. When the stomach is soft and seems fully thawed I then blow dry it to heat up the body to about 98 degrees to recreate body heat, and then I just walk it over and put it in the tank
  • 11-05-2018, 12:35 AM
    zina10
    never put a frozen feeder into hot water.

    Try this...

    Have a small bucket or bowl ready. Sometime early afternoon, take out the FROZEN rodent and put into that small bucket bowel with COLD water.

    Leave be until late evening.

    Late evening, drain the cold water. Add HOT water. Not burning hot, but def. hotter then very warm. Since you are feeding tiny mice, you don't have to wait so long. Give it 5 minutes, drain water, fill again with hot water. Wait 5 minutes, drain water, fill again with very hot (again, not to the point of hurting your hands, but hot) water.

    So you do this 3 times. Drain and refill.

    After the third time, take out the rodents and roll up in a few paper towels and carry to the cage. By the time you get there the paper towels will have absorbed most of the water. The rodent should feel quite warm.

    Offer rodent. Make sure you do this late evening or at night.

    Your baby might need a cage that has less deco. Just stuff on ground. Several hides, dark substrate, dark around the cage. Sometimes you have to go to a smaller container, but try the other tricks first ;)
  • 11-05-2018, 01:48 AM
    SMTHook
    Got a temp gun yet? I still think you have a husbandry issue (security or temps) rather than an eating issue. I have a feeling your expectations and his priorities are miles apart.
  • 11-05-2018, 04:35 AM
    Zincubus
    Re: Is my baby ball python going to starve himself??!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Abigail23 View Post
    If you’ve seen my other threads on here you know I’ve been struggling to get this baby to eat. He’s about 2 months old and I rescued him from a bad situation. He was fed 5 live hopper mice meals before I got him, but here in NY I don’t have access to live feeders. I waited a week before I fed him and made sure to thaw out his mice and warm it up to make it seemed alive for him. Wiggled it around but he did not move. He didn’t leave his vines (he loves climbing his vines and hides in them). Today (a week after the last attempt) I tried to feed again. Wiggled it around... no reaction. Put it near his vines. He went and smelled it. Currently left it on the bottom of his tank. He still up in his vines and seems to have no intentions of going to eat.

    I’m getting really worried because he’s so young and not eating for almost 3 weeks seems dangerous since he doesn’t have any fat stored to gather energy from.

    Ive heard of putting them in a paper bag with the feeder and seeing if they eat. Should I try that right now or should I just leave the mice in all night?

    I feel like I’m going crazy from all this stress!!! [emoji31]

    hes in a 10 gallon. Weighs 65 grams, his temps are good and so is his humidity. Hides are his size and even stuffed with crumpled paper to be more snug. Even has a blanket that covers his tank for privacy.
    I don’t know why he’s not eating :(


    i know assist feeding is a big no and should be the LAST resort. But will he die if I don’t try to assist feed?

    (sorry if there’s typos, was typing this in a hurry)

    If he showed 'interest' then that is crucial to my mind ..

    Next feed I'd wait until evening , in low /dim light . Wait until it's settled under a hide ... get the mouse / rat on tongs and blast it with a hairdryer for ten seconds then dangle it in front of the hide entrance IMMEDIATELY ... of there's any interest shown then do the same thing again and again ..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  • 11-05-2018, 12:21 PM
    Stewart_Reptiles
  • 11-05-2018, 12:36 PM
    hilabeans
    +1 on what Deborah said.

    Many (make that most) times, a refusal to eat is due to habitat conditions and not directly to issues with feeders. If he is feeling insecure (not enough hides, inappropriately sized hides, habitat too exposed, lack of privacy) or his temps are off (unregulated, too high, too low, no gradient), he will refuse to eat. In that case, no matter how delicious and perfectly warmed your offering may be, it will be rejected time and again.

    You mentioned having other threads on the issue so you may have already been thru the habitat thing, but I started my BP with Deborah's method and kept him there for months. He established as a good feeder early and has never missed a meal since, even thru his transitions to larger enclosures.

    Bottom line, it works.

    Edit: And the reason this screams "habitat" to me is your mention of him being "up in his vines". Typical bp behavior would be swirled up in a hide laying low 99% of the time, they're not really the vine-dwelling type. So if he's constantly cruising or climbing, that tells me he's uncomfortable.
  • 11-05-2018, 01:20 PM
    Zincubus
    Re: Is my baby ball python going to starve himself??!
    To be fair ... Royals do love climbing and will use any branches or vines that are in there BUT you rightly mentioned that it's odd for them to stay in them all the time .. mine love climbing in the evenings for an hour or so but will spend most of the time in their hides


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
  • 11-05-2018, 01:44 PM
    AbsoluteApril
    Re: Is my baby ball python going to starve himself??!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Abigail23 View Post
    Ive heard of putting them in a paper bag with the feeder and seeing if they eat. Should I try that right now or should I just leave the mice in all night?

    Just to touch on this specific point, that's a trick that I've used and can work for corn snakes. I have never heard that used for ball pythons and would NOT recommend it.

    I also agree that something might be off a tad, a hiding ball python is normally a happy ball python and I'd be concerned he's in the vines and not a hide. I'd put a hide right below or under the vines (without anything wadded paper in it).
    The link Deborah posted is great and highly recommended to follow.
  • 11-05-2018, 02:44 PM
    hilabeans
    Re: Is my baby ball python going to starve himself??!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Zincubus View Post
    To be fair ... Royals do love climbing and will use any branches or vines that are in there BUT you rightly mentioned that it's odd for them to stay in them all the time .. mine love climbing in the evenings for an hour or so but will spend most of the time in their hides


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    True that. A fully healthy snake with all things dialed in, I wouldn't think twice of an hour or so of playtime.
  • 11-05-2018, 03:15 PM
    Tila
    I recently struggled with a couple hatchlings that wouldn't eat and for me it was the live vs. f/t that solved the issue. It was very difficult to find live mice but I was able to and that made all the difference. I wish I could've had someone tell me in a kind way that live can be THAT important. Fortunately it only took 2 live feedings to get my two on track and the next feeding they flawlessly switched to f/t so don't feel like if you do feed live it'll have to be forever. So as others have said, follow the hatchling care and husbandry advice but also if possible consider live since it was THE missing piece in my case. Good luck!
  • 11-05-2018, 03:51 PM
    Bogertophis
    Re: Is my baby ball python going to starve himself??!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tila View Post
    I recently struggled with a couple hatchlings that wouldn't eat and for me it was the live vs. f/t that solved the issue. It was very difficult to find live mice but I was able to and that made all the difference. I wish I could've had someone tell me in a kind way that live can be THAT important. Fortunately it only took 2 live feedings to get my two on track and the next feeding they flawlessly switched to f/t so don't feel like if you do feed live it'll have to be forever. So as others have said, follow the hatchling care and husbandry advice but also if possible consider live since it was THE missing piece in my case. Good luck!

    I agree.

    While I've never raised BPs, I've raised many other kinds of hatchlings & neonates, and yes! they are programmed by "nature" to seek live wiggling prey...NOT 'roadkill'.
    So while some may switch quickly & easily, others cling to their instincts...it's up to us, their keepers & benefactors, to realize & do what they need to get a start in life.

    It's not easy to make dead prey seem alive...many of us forget how hard it was when we were new to this because we've been using the "tricks" for so long...;) It can
    be done, but for the sake of the snake, I'd rather they keep their energy up by eating a few live, & deal with switching them later. A snake that has never fed doesn't
    "know" what it's like to feel "full"...once they eat a time or two, their appetite improves...they instinctively want to eat more & they more easily accept f/t or fresh killed.
  • 11-05-2018, 04:10 PM
    Bogertophis
    Re: Is my baby ball python going to starve himself??!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Abigail23 View Post
    I put the mice in a plastic zipblock bag and emerge it into warm/hot water for about an hour. When the stomach is soft and seems fully thawed I then blow dry it to heat up the body to about 98 degrees to recreate body heat, and then I just walk it over and put it in the tank

    This is wrong, as zina10 pointed out in her post that followed yours. When you did this (thawed in warm/hot water an hour!) you inadvertently caused the mice to SPOIL.

    Snakes don't want cooked mice...they sure don't want spoiled mice (gag!). Thaw in cold water always, as long as it takes for the rodent to be soft thru & thru...feel with
    your fingers to know. A small mouse (like a hopper) won't take an hour to thaw even in COLD water....more like 15 minutes. (science hint: things thaw much faster in
    water than in air...never thaw rodents on the counter either.) Once thawed, only then you warm them up, first in very warm water, & then try using a hairdryer briefly.
    They cool off very fast, make sure you do this near the cage, OR, find a way to keep them hot while you walk to the cage.

    Then much depends on how you offer the prey...even if the prey is hot, if you move it in a way that only scares the snake, your snake still won't eat. Remember that
    rodents do NOT rush up & offer themselves to snakes.:rolleyes: Snakes (BPs) like to ambush a rodent that's just going past...so make it LOOK that way. Don't approach
    the snake with the rodent: instead, make it look like it's casually hopping past- close enough for the snake to see, smell & grab. (you have feeding tongs I assume?)
    A little motion, but not too much. Most BPs are braver about grabbing prey when they aren't out in the "open" (cruising their cage), hopefully you time the thawing right,
    & feed at NIGHT, when they normally hunt. Maybe dim the lights in the room you see by.
  • 11-05-2018, 04:42 PM
    cron14
    Re: Is my baby ball python going to starve himself??!
    Where in NY do you live? If it is anywhere near Brooklyn, there is several stores that sell live feeders.
  • 11-05-2018, 05:04 PM
    Craiga 01453
    First off, no your snake isn't going to die after a short period of time refusing food. A healthy snake can go months with no problem. But it is important to get yours eating since he's so young.

    Follow Deborah's advice. The link she provided is the best advice you can receive at this point.

    Start from scratch and start reading all you can about BPs and keeping them in captivity. Learn all you can (from reputable sources). Your snake will not starve itself to death, and 3 weeks is nothing. But for such a young snake, the sooner he eats, the better.
  • 11-05-2018, 05:15 PM
    Abigail23
    Re: Is my baby ball python going to starve himself??!
    I’m more upstate, but I’m willing to take the trip down. What stores do you have in mind?
  • 11-05-2018, 06:14 PM
    Cheesenugget
    Follow Deborah's sticky re husbandry.

    Wait one week. No handling. Quiet room.

    Get live hopper.

    If all goes well, you will get a strike in a matter of seconds.

    After it ate consistently for you and gain some weight, try switching to f/t hopper. If it takes, stay on it for a few more meals then upgrade to small mouse, then eventually try switching rats.
  • 11-05-2018, 06:18 PM
    cron14
    Re: Is my baby ball python going to starve himself??!
    If you are near a petland discounts, they all sell live by me. Other than that, I would type into google “reptile stores near me” or exotic stores. Although I’ve never done it before, Craigslist usually has people selling feeders. Facebook could be another option. There are several FB groups for reptile keepers in NY. I never post on there but people sell all sorts of goods. Last option I would say is the White Plains reptile expo. Next one is the Sunday after Thanksgiving. I’ve never been but I would imagine there are at least a few vendors selling live rats.

    Just as an aside, my BP is nearly 5 years old and I have always fed live because he refuses F/T (working to change that*). While it doesnt have to be right away, I would suggest following the methods that the much more experienced keepers have suggested to get your BP on F/T. I wish I had switched mine over to F/T when he was younger.

    *I don’t have any ethical issues feeding live. F/T is more appealing to me because it removes the chance my BP suffers a bite from a rat.
  • 11-05-2018, 06:50 PM
    Abigail23
    I had a friend of mine go into her local Petland and she was told they don’t sell live hoppers only small mice? He’s had 4-5 live hoppers before I got him. But I feel a small mice may be a bit too big?
  • 11-05-2018, 06:50 PM
    Bogertophis
    I saw that this snake had supposedly had live meals prior to your ownership, but he's likely been refusing because of all that's new going on, along with you
    needing to get the hang of feeding. Whenever he is big enough to take two mouse hoppers, try feeding the first one live, & have a second one f/t that is
    thawed & ready for him to take IMMEDIATELY once he finishes the first (live) prey. Most snakes are pumped up & won't much care if the second one is live
    or not...& with any luck, after a couple feedings this way, they often just accept the f/t by itself when offered at the next meal-time.

    I'd avoid sizing up if you can...the more mature the mouse is, the more likely it will bite back effectively & harm your snake. And especially now, since your
    snake has NOT been eating, he'll be a little off-guard.
  • 11-05-2018, 06:54 PM
    Godzilla78
    Regarding thawing: I have tried all kinds of ways, but I settled on the best way! I take the frozen rodents out and leave them on a paper towel laying in the snake room (ambient 75-80 degrees year round) and I let them sit and slow thaw for several hours... I never use water any more as dry thawing leaves a nice dry furry rodent.
    By the time they are fully thawed out, the snakes have caught the scent of rodents in the air and are already in feeding mode!!!
    I then Heat them up with a blow dryer and dangle them by the tongs until the snakes strike.

    also; I agree that that there maybe something wrong with the terrarium conditions if the python is climbing frequently.
  • 11-06-2018, 09:49 AM
    JRLongton
    With all the talk about husbandry, could you possibly post a picture of the set up?

    There may be something simple that is being overlooked.
  • 11-09-2018, 03:00 AM
    Abigail23
    Hallelujah
    Wanted to update everyone and let y’all know October had his first meal with me! I followed deborahs advice, moved him to a 6qrt, aspen, one hide, water bowl. Even blacked out the sides of the tub. Offered him what he was eating with the breeder and BAM. I noticed he began using his hides during the day which was a good sign he felt more comfortable. And tonight I offered him a live hopper mouse and he struck it within seconds!

    Gonna keep on with all the advice to switch him to frozen soon enough. Just happy he’s got a meal in him.

    Thank you!! :)
  • 11-09-2018, 03:15 AM
    Bogertophis
    Congratulations! You're off & running! :snake:
  • 11-09-2018, 07:44 AM
    Craiga 01453
    Awesome news!!!
  • 11-09-2018, 08:25 AM
    Dianne
    Re: Is my baby ball python going to starve himself??!
    Great news...congratulations!
  • 11-09-2018, 09:47 AM
    hilabeans
    Fantastic!! Good on you for listening to solid advice, that rarely happens areound here, lol!
  • 11-09-2018, 12:10 PM
    JRLongton
    Congrats! Isn't it incredible that they actually like such small cramped spaces?
  • 11-09-2018, 03:00 PM
    zina10
    Awesome, yay !!!

    Thanks for actually listening to good advice and making the necessary changes. Its really hard for humans to not anthropomorphize every animal, esp. the ones we love and have as pets.
    Its not always what WE think they would/should enjoy, but what they actually need and crave (and we personally would hate living like that and find it sad) that matters.

    Sure, many BP's can become used to larger enclosures. Some are more bold then others. Some will make use of space and climb decorations. But whether they climb because they feel happiness and joy doing that, well, the jury is out on that. They may just sit on a log, because its there. LOL. And they have become accustomed to their enclosure and comfortable with it.

    You certainly can eventually make the enclosure more pleasing to your eyes. But first you need to get your little one well acclimated and accomplished. Once they get a little weight and size to them and they learn the routine, you can introduce larger enclosures. Larger hides. Etc. Always giving your animal a little time to get used to new things before going overboard. The basics never change, though. Safety, Privacy (hides, not so open, not so exposed) perfect husbandry with heat and humidity.

    That is why I always say, BP's do well in tubs. They can also do well in cages, or even tanks. There is a right way to do ALL of those, and a wrong one. The problem is when people are completely anti this or anti that. Or when they do not listen to sound advice. You did, and your baby will thrive :)

    Congrats !
  • 11-09-2018, 05:05 PM
    Armiyana
    Yay! Good news ♥

    Because your baby is so young, I hope you can switch him over easily once he settles in.
    I have a pastel girl who I took in because she refused to eat f/t. She ended up needing to be assist fed before I took her. The same day she came home with me, she took down a live fuzzy. A month and a half later, she was not only back to eating her properly sized meals but eating them frozen as well.
  • 11-12-2018, 03:33 AM
    Abigail23
    Second update: October’s officially on f/t ☺️ Took his first meal tonight. So grateful for everyone’s help!

    here he is saying hello 🐍

    https://lensdump.com/i/fa31c402-aa41...9928c58.A9ur3Z


    🧡
  • 11-12-2018, 03:36 AM
    Bogertophis
    This calls for a Happy Dance! :dance: He's a cutie too!
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