Is my baby Ball Python ok?

Hello. Long story short. I have a baby Ball Python now. His names October and he’s a champagne morph. Such a cute little guy. Only about a month (and a half maybe) old

Hes in a 10gal to start, two hides, water bowls and leaf vines suctioned to the top of tank and fall down to the bottom. Has a heating pad underneath, thermostat etc.

When I first put him into his tank he looked around some and went into his warm hide. But after a few hours he came out (still day time) and he climbed up the vines and coiled up on top and just stood there all day. He’d stay here for hours at a time (even stood there all night his first day with me) instead of stay in one of his hides. He loves climbing but I’m not sure if this is normal or not. Here’s a picture.

https://lensdump.com/i/AT2dlF

Here coiled right on top of the vines, right under the mesh lid. (I remove that wire you see in the pic. He kept coiling around it)

also, around 8 pm yesterday my sister grabbed him for a bit while I fixed something in his tank. After she put him in. He immediately went to the top of the vines. Soon after he finally went into his warm hide and stood there until 12 am when I shut the lights off. Then I saw him coming out. Sniffing around. But he climbed right back up the vines. He did slither between them from warm to cool side and poked his head out exploring but never got on the ground to explore. He stood in the vines.

Around 3 am last night as I went to use the bathroom I saw him in this position.

https://lensdump.com/i/AT2qb3

(Those wires are outside tank**)

now it is about 9 am and he is STILL in this position.

Is he ok?? This doesn’t seem normal to me. He IS still adjusting and it’s only his 3rd day with me but his behavior seems unusual.


he hasn’t been fed bc I want him to adjust and I hear it’s best to wait 5-7 days.

Is my little baby ok??

Check your ambient vs. surface temperatures. Might be too hot/cold at the bottom. Use an IR temp gun for surface temperature readings.

He's gorgeous.

How long have you had him?

I find that my new BPs tend to be active for the first few days before they find a hide that they like. Once they do, I almost never see them out.

This behavior could be stress related, which may mean too few hides. Is the enclosure good and cluttered? If so, it could just be the stress of coming to a new environment. If you got him from a breeder his last home was probably a small dark tub, and your 10 gallon is going to be a big change that will take some getting used to.

Maybe provide a pic of your overall set up.

First off, welcome to the forum and the wonderful world ofsnake keeping.

In order to help you we'll need to know more...

- What are your temps?
- How are you measuring temps? And where?
- Is the enclosure in a high traffic area in the house?

I know its hard, and stressful, especially with a new snake, but its very important to just give him time to adjust to his new surroundings.
No handling during this time, as much as I'm sure you want to. And try to avoid peeking in and taking pics every so often, it's just adding stress to your snake (and you). Just let him settle...

But anyway, if you can answer the above questions we'll have a better idea how tohelp you.

I’ve only had him for 3 days now and his last set up was a small 6qrt plastic tub.


Just left the house but I’ll post a picture when I’m back home. But the enclosure is fairly covered. I can definitely try to make it more dark and safe feeling for him though.

Is it normal for them to hang off and stay still like the second pic? Don’t they get tired of holding themselves up like that

As of now I have the jumpstart thermo stat set to 90 for the warm side and I have a thermometer probe under the substrate to read temp but that keeps reading 94-95 (I think it could be bc my thermostat probe is off to the side and not in the middle unlike the thermometer probe inside enclosure)and the cold side is around 70-80. I’m having a hard time keeping it up to 80. I’m getting a new thermometer for that side. I also ordered a laser gun thermo and it’s coming in the mail tomorrow.

The enclosure is in my room. And I guess I have my mom and sister walk in a few times a day, noise level is average.

Could he be hanging off the leafs over the warm side for heat? Not necessarily wanting to go under the hide tho. Maybe it’s too warm?

94-95 sounds pretty hot too me! That floor of the warm side should be 90. So it could very well be that the floor is too warm for him.

I think we need more info about the set up. Is your only source of heat the under the tank heater (UTH)? Or do you also have a ceramic heat emitter (CHE) or heat lamp?

Getting an IR temp gun is a great idea. All reptile keepers need to have one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abigail23

As of now I have the jumpstart thermo stat set to 90 for the warm side and I have a thermometer probe under the substrate to read temp but that keeps reading 94-95 (I think it could be bc my thermostat probe is off to the side and not in the middle unlike the thermometer probe inside enclosure)and the cold side is around 70-80. I’m having a hard time keeping it up to 80. I’m getting a new thermometer for that side. I also ordered a laser gun thermo and it’s coming in the mail tomorrow.

The enclosure is in my room. And I guess I have my mom and sister walk in a few times a day, noise level is average.

Could he be hanging off the leafs over the warm side for heat? Not necessarily wanting to go under the hide tho. Maybe it’s too warm?

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Ok, so it sounds to me like your new snake is exploring and unable to find a comfortable temp.

- 94-95 is too hot, drop that down to 89-90
- 70 is way to cold and can cause respiratory infection. You need to keep the temps above 75, but low 80ish is preferred.

If the temps in your room don't remain in the low-mid 80s you will need an additional heat source. You'll have to get a heat lamp and use bulbs or a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) or get a RHP (Radiant Heat Panel). Whichever you choose must also be regulated by a thermostat.

I’m using a UTH. Would you recommend also having Heat lamp source? My room stays at 75 degrees, could get cooler at night here in ny.

If i use both uth and lamp. I’d need them both connected to a thermostat AND I’d have to set temp to 90?

I was also wondering. How can I keep the cool side at 80? It’s somethkng I’m struggling with.

Thx for the replies btw. Much appreciated

In a 10 gallon I don't think both a UTH and CHE/Lamp are necessary. One or the other, and I'd lean towards the CHE.

The UTH isn't going to do anything for the cool side, I've experimented extensively with this and found that unless the ambient room temp is a steady 77F (and that's a minimum) the UTH on its own is never going to cut it.

A CHE on the other hand will be able to get the warm side to 90 and the cool to 80, and comfortably so. Plus you'll only need one thermostat.

I prefer CHE for BPs for a few reasons;

1) Light stresses them out. They like darkness.
2) The light only emits heat when its on. Do you want a light shining at 2:30 AM?
3) A switching thermostat (like a Jumpstart) is either on or off, no in between. All this on/off/on/off shortens the life of an incandescent bulbs.

They do sell red lights that mitigate 1 and 2, but not 3.

CHEs last longer than bulbs under all circumstances. I think the on/off nature of Jumpstarts shortens their life as well, but they last so long that this is less of an issue. A CHE is more expensive though and will tend to dry out the environment, making humidity an issue. I now use Radiant heat panels myself (most expensive option).

Finally, don't take my word for it. Everybody has their own way of doing things and lots of methods can be made to work perfectly well. There are many experienced keepers on this forum who will gladly give you advice that may be better than mine. Read, learn, absorb, and devise a method that will best suit your situation and goals.

I'll just add one thing as I agree with the above suggestions and the floor of cage is likely too HOT (& heat rises, so the vines may be just about right now, but

you do want him to be able to safely use his "hides"). We aren't seeing the size of the hides, and even if they're a good match for his size, what snakes ALSO

like is "back pressure" (a close, snug feeling) as well as something to cling to...that may also be why he loves the vines. Instincts tell snakes to hide for safety

and he feels safe there...so maybe (AFTER you lower the floor temp. to not more than 90*) also add something to his hides to make them more cozy: a piece

of vine, or a crumpled paper towel might do the trick, or even some moss (& if you soak some sphagnum moss in water first, that makes for a "humid hide" which

many of our snakes love & even need for good shedding). Congrats on the beautiful "little one" and also for paying close attention to do the right habitat for him-
you'll get there, I'm sure. :gj: And :welcome:

Thanks so much! I’m definitely going to try this. Assuming the CHE will only heat up the top of the hides and not underneath. Should I expect him to hang outside of his hides for warmth?


Thanks for all the suggestions!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abigail23

Thanks so much! I’m definitely going to try this. Assuming the CHE will only heat up the top of the hides and not underneath. Should I expect him to hang outside of his hides for warmth?


Thanks for all the suggestions!!!!

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You'll often here the phrase "a happy ball is a hiding ball" in the snake community. And it is said often for a reason. BPs will spend the vast majority of their time hidden, so once your husbandry is fixed your BP will likely get settled in pretty quickly and use the hides most of the time.

I’ve def heard that from a couple of people in the past three days haha.
I know he hasn’t eaten since last week on Wednesday. I brought him home Tuesday and am trying to let him settle in before feeding. Could that be a reason for him being out of his hides also? Bc he’s hungry and “looking for prey”

is 5-7 days of adjusting really best?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abigail23

Thanks so much! I’m definitely going to try this. Assuming the CHE will only heat up the top of the hides and not underneath. Should I expect him to hang outside of his hides for warmth?


Thanks for all the suggestions!!!!

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More so at night, if at all, especially when hungry. Ball pythons are pretty much ground-dwellers, so I think both UTH and some kind of overhead warmth are
beneficial. You just have to make sure the temps. are regulated & there is still a "cooler" side to the cage w/ a cool "hide" available, they always need options.

If I use both UTH and a CHE (or some type of light heat) What should I set both of them to on the thermostat?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abigail23

If I use both UTH and a CHE (or some type of light heat) What should I set both of them to on the thermostat?

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Youll have to experiment a bit. It varies too much to give you an answer because everybody's setup is a little different. So you'll have to set them, check them, adjust, repeat until you get it dialed in. I have all mine in the same room and they all require slightly different settings. Yours will be different than mine too. There's room temps, enclosure types, etc...that are all variables. So it's a trial and error thing.
It takes a little time and patience, but once it's dialed in its done, then you just need to do daily checks to make sure equipment is functioning, but the equipment does the work for you and you don't have to stress it. Easy breezy :)

Thank you!!!!!!! :)
Will let you know how it turns out. Determined to get his living space as perfect as I can!

Tape black construction paper on the outside of the tank, both sides and the back. It will make him feel more secluded and not so exposed. Then I would also cut a sheet of styrofoam (about 1/2 inch thick) and tape that to the sides and back as well. Also covering part of the top. You want him to have some air flow from above, but also try to keep heat and humidity in, and make him feel enclosed. Just leave half of the top open (well, mesh screen on it of course). Enough to place your heat lamp and let some air flow in and out.

Set the thermostat to 90 or 91, and place the probe between the UTH and the glass bottom of the tank. Setting it just a bit over 90 makes sure that the bottom of the tank hovers around 90 degrees. Make sure your substrate isn't thicker then about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch, so that the warmth reaches the top of the substrate. Don't worry if the top of the substrate is slightly cooler then 90 degrees. They will push and bury their body down to the temp they like. If the bottom is to hot, you risk them getting burned.

Get the ambient up a bit with a ceramic heat bulb, but careful. Its easy to get the ambient TO high with 2 heat sources in that small enclosure. But once you get the UTH dialed in correctly and the tank insulated, it should get easier to reach a good ambient with a very small heat lamp.

Your baby looks very healthy and beautiful and the way he was hanging off the vines with the S-shape to his neck, staring down, looks to me he is already looking for food.
Don't handle more then absolutely necessary for now, get the adjustments to your tank done asap, then wait a day or two more and offer food ! The "stress" roaming looks more of a constant moving around, constant probing for ways to get out. Your baby seems to look for the right temps and perhaps for food. :)

Construction paper is genius! Read this while on my way to get some. I’m gonna try to feed him Sunday night. Hopefully that stops the roaming. Thanks for the advice! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

...Your baby looks very healthy and beautiful and the way he was hanging off the vines with the S-shape to his neck, staring down,
looks to me he is already looking for food....

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Back when I raised a few BPs, I found that one of them had more "confidence" to pounce on his food (live rat crawler) from above; he'd wait from on top of driftwood.
So I think your vines are a good idea & he may well like to "hunt" from there? All of our snakes have some of their own personality, that's what makes them so much
fun to watch.

I think you've gotten some pretty stellar advice here, but I've got to simply chime in and say you picked up a beautiful little baby there! Congrats!

Wanted to update on him. I got his hot spot to 89-90 and his cool side to 78-80. Ambient temp is 80 as well! Even though the temps all right now he still in his vines not going into his hides. Same “S” shape position. So I’m starting to think he either hates his hides and feels safer hiding in his vines or he’s really hungry and hanging off “waiting” for food to pass by :O:confusd:

Well as long as you know the temps are ok, don't worry about where he likes to hang out (literally, lol...). Snakes like to grab onto things to feel secure*, & some
like to climb more than others. (*actually, they can hardly move if you put them on a smooth glass table; they use their muscles & their scutes to grip & push against
even the slightest surface texture, & they prefer knarled branches way over smooth dowels.) As BPs grow larger & heavier their climbing won't likely continue anyway.

Haha ok. I’ll try to worry less. I’ve been so stressed. I just keep thinking about the whole “a hiding Ball Python is a happy Ball Python” so I was stresseeeed!!! Like why isn’t he hiding ahhhh. Maybe after he gets some food this weekend he’ll change up a bit!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abigail23

Haha ok. I’ll try to worry less. I’ve been so stressed. I just keep thinking about the whole “a hiding Ball Python is a happy Ball Python” so I was stresseeeed!!! Like why isn’t he hiding ahhhh. Maybe after he gets some food this weekend he’ll change up a bit!

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That's just it though...he thinks he IS hiding. Relax "helicopter mom"...;) And yes, he may be looking for food too, but he's not
starving. He's just showing you what he likes- he looks pretty happy to me.

I've skitted through the thread ...

What kind of hides are they incidentally??

Just wondering if they're those open ended log hides which offer virtually no security at all ..


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He has some DIY bowl hides I made from little plastic bowls. They’re just right for his size, and I even added some crumbled up paper towel in there for “back support” as someone suggested.

Tried feeding him a f/t hopper today. (He was on live before I got him) and he completely ignored it :( didn’t even come down from his vine. I’m pretty sad about it was really hopping he’d eat.

I left the mouse thaw out room temperature for an hour over his cage to get the smells going. Then I put it in hot water for 15 and also used the blow dryer till he surface temp was 98-100 to make him seem alive. Wiggled it around tried to get his attention and nothing :(

i didnt leave the mouse inside with him, I guess I’ll leave him alone and try again next week. :(

How did he react to the smell? Did activity increase? Tongue use increase? In other words, did the smell excite him?

Nope he didn’t even move from his vine. He just stood there. I threw the mouse away and took down his vines to see if that’d encourage him to use his hides and now he’s just wandering around, flicking his tongue around and climbing to the top of the cage trying to “escape” he’s a month and 3 weeks old. I don’t want him to go too long without food so I’m getting worried

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abigail23

He has some DIY bowl hides I made from little plastic bowls. They’re just right for his size, and I even added some crumbled up paper towel in there for “back support” as someone suggested.

Tried feeding him a f/t hopper today. (He was on live before I got him) and he completely ignored it :( didn’t even come down from his vine. I’m pretty sad about it was really hopping he’d eat.

I left the mouse thaw out room temperature for an hour over his cage to get the smells going. Then I put it in hot water for 15 and also used the blow dryer till he surface temp was 98-100 to make him seem alive. Wiggled it around tried to get his attention and nothing :(

i didnt leave the mouse inside with him, I guess I’ll leave him alone and try again next week. :(

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Best results, feed at night...that's when they naturally want to hunt (ambush prey). And next time leave it overnight in his cage...he just may need complete privacy
to feel safe eating. Snakes that are side-tracked by killing & eating prey are themselves at greater risk from a predator taking them...they instinctively know that &
some just won't eat if we're watching. Can't tell you the number of times I've had to stand & not move a muscle while one of my snakes got brave enough to eat in
my presence, & if I moved too soon they'd spit it out & then refuse to take it at all. There's all kinds of snake personalities...it's up to us to pay close attention to
do whatever they need from us. Mostly they'll outgrow these quirks at least. (& yes, don't offer food constantly, I'd wait a week now too)

Just relax a little. I'd imagine he'd become excited at the smell regardless of frozen vs live. He wasn't ready to eat. As long as your temps are in line, he'll come around. Everytime you go in and take something out or adjust it's possibly adding stress. Someone suggested to put black construction paper on three sides to help with "security", I'd even take it one more step and put a towel over the front so all 4 sides are covered. Flip the towel to check in and perform minimal and necessary tasks. But for 99% of a day he can feel completely enclosed and safe. Hardest thing to do is ignore a new exciting pet, but it'll be best for him. Just make sure the temps are correct.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abigail23

He has some DIY bowl hides I made from little plastic bowls. They’re just right for his size, and I even added some crumbled up paper towel in there for “back support” as someone suggested.

Tried feeding him a f/t hopper today. (He was on live before I got him) and he completely ignored it :( didn’t even come down from his vine. I’m pretty sad about it was really hopping he’d eat.

I left the mouse thaw out room temperature for an hour over his cage to get the smells going. Then I put it in hot water for 15 and also used the blow dryer till he surface temp was 98-100 to make him seem alive. Wiggled it around tried to get his attention and nothing :(

i didnt leave the mouse inside with him, I guess I’ll leave him alone and try again next week. :(

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My Royals / Ball pythons will ONLY strike feed from the security of a hide !!

Next time , wait until evening .. dim /low lighting ... wait until he's settled under a hide .. plug the hairdryer in close to the snake viv / tub then blast the rat /mouse for 15 seconds then using kitchen tongs ...instantly dangle the rat in front of the hide entrance ..

If there is any interest shown then just repeat the process exactly


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