Just UTH or with CHE?

Another question from curious beginner - is it possible to make efficient thermo gradient using only UTH? I'm getting my first hatchling a smaller tub with only UTH, but when she'll get older, I want to upgrade her to big tank, should I use then a CHE and UTH combined or is there some way to have only UTH? Thanks for answering! :)

A lot will depend on the temperature in your house.

Most likely, a UTH by itself isn't enough. First off, a UTH is a very low-power device that will never put out enough to heat the whole cage, unless (maybe) your room is in the high 70's to start with.

You might ask, if a UTH can't ever put out that much heat, how come snakes can get burned by them? The reason is that since it's on the bottom of the cage, it has substrate over it, and substrate is a great insulator. That has two consequences: One is that even though the UTH doesn't produce much heat, that heat is trapped so it gets really hot. The other is that since all that heat stays under the substrate, not much makes it into the rest of the cage. A thermostat will keep it from getting hot enough to burn, but it does that by making it produce even less heat. So, to make a long story short, a UTH is only good for warming one small area, and only if you keep the substrate there very thin.

A CHE is much higher wattage for starters, and as a result it produces a lot more heat in the first place. Depending on the wattage, the room temperature, and what your cage is made of or how it is insulated, a CHE can be enough to produce an appropriate gradient by itself. If you have it pointing through the screen top of a tank, it can make it a little harder to maintain humidity. Deep substrate makes it easier to keep humidity stable, but you can't use deep substrate with a UTH.

I have to use both and never could maintain proper heat with just a UTH. I tried. I followed some guidelines off the web and it was bad info. 2” of substrate will never get to any kind of desirable surface temp so I use enough to cover floor with maybe 1/2”. I have both UTH and CHE regulated by a thermostat. I have glass tanks for now but had to insulate them on top and three sides with foam board. Obviously I have some of the screen top open for fresh air but tried to cover as much as I could.
I know my Pastel was not eager to feed with temps to cool. One thing I have to do religiously is spray the substrate for humidity at least daily. During the summer it was even more frequent.

The issue with the UTH, is that they almost don't do anything for the ambient temperature. Most people use UTH as a "hot spot". Personally, I'd start with a CHE and see if a UTH is actually needed.

Ok, thank you very much. I have a few questions about CHE. I'm sorry for thé beginners questions, but I want to be 100% sure to make the best I could...
a) I Will attach CHE and my thermostat probe should go where, on the top of the substrate or under the substrate on top of the glass, as well as I would do with UTH? Also which temperature to set it in the thermostat?

b) If I would use only CHE to heat it, should I put it on the hot side? To make a hot spot and the ambient would be lower in other side but still acceptable... I guess? :D

c) If it wasn't efficient enough and I would have to use also UTH, where should be CHE in this case? In the middle?

Thank you for answering! :)

A. If you're going to plug in the CHE into the thermostat, I'd somehow secure the probe so it's hanging above the CHE but not touching the substrate so the BP can't be on top of it. Photo below is how i set mine up (it's a RHP but similar to a CHE). In regards to the UTH, the thermostat probe should be between the UTH and bottom of terrarium.

B. If you're just doing the CHE, yes you can use it as a hot spot. For example, if you have a 20 gallon rectangular enclosure, I'd put the CHE on one side and then cover the other side with a piece of acrylic (usually can have one cut to any size at a hardware store. This will help keep the heat and humidity in the terrarium.

C. In regards to using both, you can create a hotspot on one side using both and then provide your BP with a cool side. However, i think if you're able to create a hotspot with the CHE, you'll be completely fine.

I feel like newer members think that belly heat is much more important than it actually is. As long as your ambient temperature are within the range, your BP will do great!

Personally, I don't even provide a hotspot. My terrarium are enclosed so my BPs get a constant 82F.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...43c3fbab97.jpg

By the way, here's a great write up on how to set up an enclosure. It shows probe placment as well.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-With-Pictures!

To answer your question it's important to understand that there isn't one "right way" due to the crazy amount of variance from one enclosure to another. What works for me in MA isn't going to work for somebody in FL, for example. Even somebody on my street might need to do things differently than I would. My house is old and drafty, but a house up the street may be newer and better insulated. They may keep their house warmer than I like mine, they may use tubs while I use glass, etc...etc...etc...

It's also important to understand that a UTH is not designed for ambient temps. It is there solely to provide a hot spot.
So....unless the room your snake is in stays at a constant temp in the low 80s you'll need an additional heat source.

You'll need ALL heat sources regulated by a thermostat.

As for what temp to set the t-stat to, there's no right answer since it'll be different depending on your room temps, enclosure type and size, etc....

You'll need to use trial and error and figure out what works. This is why it's important to have enclosures set up, running and dialed in before bringing your snake home or moving it to a new enclosure.

Ideally, you want a thermal gradient so the snake can choose what temperature it wants. That's how they regulate their body temperature and it's a natural part of their behavior. Different types of enclosures have different thermal properties, and the temperature of your house affects it too.

If your house is warmer, a glass enclosure will make it easier to create an appropriate gradient, because the temperature will drop off from one side to the other, whereas with a PVC enclosure the two sides might not be that far apart. If your house is colder, the temperature will probably drop off too far from one side to the other, whereas another material might retain enough heat for the gradient to be correct. But you can always add insulation to the outside of a glass enclosure (and also cover however much of the screen you need to) to reduce heat loss, and that will help regulate the gradient.

You just have to try it. Although if you tell us what range of room temperatures you expect and what kind of cage you have, we might be able to take better guesses as to what you might need. They'll still be guesses though.

I agree with placing the thermostat probe so that it dangles down just above the substrate, where it can't be sat on or peed on. Then you can use one of those indoor/outdoor thermometers with a probe you stick out the window, with the probe on the warm side and the thermometer on the cool side. That will tell you the temperatures on both sides at a glance. Unless you're particular about that sort of thing, I wouldn't even worry about the thermometer probe being attached securely or anything. If it gets shoved around, nothing bad will happen like it could with a thermoSTAT probe.

This is just for your information so you can keep an eye on the temperatures, humidity, and gradient, which you need to keep an eye on because things will change as the temperature of your house changes (for example, when the weather changes or if you use a programmable thermostat to save energy by heating less when no one is home).

Thank you all for advices! :)
I live in Czech Republic, central Europe. It is not that hot in here, my house stays in like low 70s, maybe a little colder sometimes. I want to go for tub with CHE and cut opening with mesh and CHE above, as I've seen few people have effectively done. When bp will get bigger I wanna upgrade to glass terrarium... But now I have doubts about whether it's good to use the method above with CHE. Do you think it could be safe and okay? Of couse used with thermostat. Or do you think it would be better using glass terrarium from the start? I'm getting my bp in November and I'll start with my setup next week... No w actually don't know what to do at all.

So summary - My house is too cold for having ambient temperature okay with only UTH, I want a tub but don't know if it's okay to use in the way I've mentioned and if not, please suggest what should be the best possible setup for bp to live in ať lest for a year, I don't want to buy very small terrarium and make like 3 upgrades in size...

In my country we also don't have those aquarium with mesh tops, it's very rare, we just have terrariums with front sliding Doors and exo terras. Also having doubts about how to use CHE in those. ..


Thank you very much for answearing!xx

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...with-pictures)
An awesome write up on how to modify a tub for a CHE.

First question: People do safely use CHE's with plastic tubs by doing what you describe - cut a hole and cover it with screen.

That said, you actually can put a baby snake right into the enclosure it will live in as an adult. The key thing is to make sure that all that space is filled up with lots of appropriately-sized hides, foliage (real or fake), tubes, branches, solid objects, etc. You'll have to adjust the hides and decor as the snake grows.

Most likely, a baby you get will have started its life in a small plastic tub, and the transition to the bigger cage with all that stuff in it can be intimidating. You can make the transition easier by getting a small plastic tub and cutting a hole in the lid, and putting the whole thing into the larger cage. Then the snake can get used to the bigger space on its own terms.

In the US it's common to use radiant heat panels for the kind of vivarium that's made of wood or PVC and has sliding doors in front. In the UK (and maybe where you are too, I don't know) it's more common to use a CHE mounted inside the cage, and protected by a mesh guard so the animal can't touch it and get burned. Those cage-type guards should be fairly easy to find if that's what people typically use where you live.
If not, you can also do the same thing with a vivarium that you were talking about with the plastic tub: Cut a hole in the top, cover it with screen, and put the fixture for your CHE pointing through it.

Wow, you are amazing! :D Thanks for great thread to look at and those advices for terrarium setup available in my country... Yeah I searched now and it looks like the most used method is the one one with using CHE in the enclosure, protected by some mesh... Thanks a lot! I'm gonna go for a modified tub with the CHE and after Christmas (you know, a lot of money for student to pay for xd) I'll be looking after some big viv where it would be ok to use on of those two methods you've mentioned.

I'm very happy to finally be sure about getting the right setup. Thanks!xx

I hope that someone still reads this thread now.. I have one more question - could you please send me some example of CHE with ceramic dome you are using? Like Link on Amazon or some shop of this sort... I'm having trouble to find a proper dome for CHE in my country, looks like we have only CHEs, so I may order both online and get them shipped in here, could be cheaper (sometimes more expensive orders get free shipping in here). Wattage like 75W up to 150W would be nice, anything between those, since I'm starting with a smaller but then moving into a big enclosure, so I guess it would be nice to have a bigger wattage.

Thank you all!

Any zoo med will work. Just make sure the it can support the wattage of the CHE. This one is good for 150w.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1e1a328f3d.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

Any zoo med will work. Just make sure the it can support the wattage of the CHE. This one is good for 150w.https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...1e1a328f3d.jpg

---

Thank you! I'll be going for their one.