Suddenly aggressive

Haven't been here forever. Had a bad accident two and a half years ago. Paraplegic now. Anyway a month ago I took out one of my bp's out to feed and he suddenly squeezed my hand then bit the other. Gonna be 5 years since I had him and haven't been bitten once. Since then he's always aggressive and now it's got me all feeling all sketchy with my other three. I haven't been handling them much since I've been in a wheelchair and sometimes just take them out to feed them. But it's been like this for over two years. Any tips on how to tame him? Thoughts? Need help, never felt anxiety towards my snakes before

Sorry to hear about your accident. I have to ask, why would you take your BPs out to feed? It is preferable to feed all snakes in their normal enclosures,
and handling a snake that is hungry & expecting food is asking for a bite. Our hands are "warm & wiggling" (like prey!), they are expecting food (& easily
jump to a conclusion when hungry!) and IF you have the faintest whiff of rat-scent in the room OR on your hands, that pretty much completes the picture
in their mind. I don't think it's personal, they don't want to bite YOU, but they are confused. You should feed them only in their normal cage & using tongs
to offer the prey. It doesn't help that you haven't been handling them so much- it makes their mistakes more likely.

Do you know about "hook training" your snakes? It has nothing to do with picking them up using a snake hook. It's actually a method using a snake hook
to signal to the snake that it's NOT food coming their way, only that it's time to be handled. With minimal effort, most snakes catch on & don't bite...it's one
of several ways of communicating what's heading their way. Personally I use my scent, & sometimes touch as well...remember that snakes best senses are
their sense of smell & touch. They do not recognize us visually...they use vision to see motion that they assume means prey to chase. And obviously they
cannot hear us either. If you take a moment to signal to them that you are not food (by using their best senses, touch & scent), it should greatly reduce
their mistakes in biting you.

I feed all my snakes in a seperate a container, so they never associate cleaning or anything else with feeding. Plus I feed them thawed rats and dont have to worry about substrate getting digest. Been doing that for 12 years with my oldest, never been bit before. I have been looking up hook training for that one snake. He has been the most agressive. Guess getting bit and feeling bad for not taking them out as much has got me down. Thanks for your reply.

It's actually not a good idea to feed in another cage...your snake is more apt to bite you while in feed mode, either before or after. With larger snakes it's actually
dangerous to do it that way, as some stay pumped up ("feed mode") for even a day or more after eating, so you can get bit trying to put them back in their cage.

The best way to avoid bites is to signal your snake that it's NOT feeding time, using your scent & touch (with hook or similar item). Some snakes actually will not
eat if you handle them first (just to move to another cage), it stresses them & interferes with their instincts to eat (because the only thing that normally picks up a
snake in the wild is a predator about to eat them!) I'm glad yours eat anyway, but it's not the best method, especially since you're getting bit.

As for them ingesting substrate, just feed on a "plate" (either a real paper plate or a cardboard box lid, or similar thing to keep the rat off the cage floor).

Sometimes snakes may be inclined to bite when they aren't being fed enough...without seeing your snakes & the size of prey, I can't tell if that may also be a factor.
There may be other issues going on too.

Sorry to hear about your accident.

First of all, don't take it personal that your snake bit you. And don't let it get you down. I know, easier said then done.
I completely understand that it becomes a bit harder to handle any of the snakes, after you've had a couple of unexpected and bad experiences. It removes some of the trust that built up over the years.

Honestly though, I agree about it being a feeding response. It really doesn't matter how you fed for 12 years and how they acted, sometimes instinct just takes over. It also doesn't make much sense to remove a snake for feeding in order to keep them from mistaking cleaning/handling time with feeding time.

While animals get used to routine, that is simply giving them to much credit. If you remove the snake from its enclosure for any reason (handling cleaning feeding) and it suddenly scents food in the air, it can go into full on feed mode within a second. Especially if it has been smelling the food before you even took it out. Anything warm (hands) and movement can trigger a food response in that moment.

I have noticed that my Ball Pythons go through stages of just "how" crazy they are about food. Sometimes in the year, the scent of rats warming up doesn't seem to get them all excited. They will still take the food, but quite calmly and without much drama. The last two feedings (some took a break for a few weeks) have been insane !! Far bigger food response then I have seen before. A couple of them literally spazzed out !!! Thrashing around open mouthed as I got close. I have never seen that before. That same snake got fed again today, and OMG. All the years of snake keeping under my belt and she almost got me !!! She was SO ready to eat, I held the rat up to her, the rat was VERY warm, she went up to it, but then turned her head to me and lunged towards me, mouth wide open, at least a foot and a half. It was close and it got my heart pumping, LOL. Take her out during the day or no food smell in the air, she is a sweetheart.

Perhaps your male is going through a "want food, and fast and now" stage and he smelled it in the air. When you picked him up, the scent got stronger and your hands were moving and warm.

I never remove my snakes for feeding, and not a single one is aggressive. I try to do maintenance and/or handling during the day, when they usually aren't looking for food. If I have to mess with them while they are hunting, or during those "ready, and ready now" times, I simply open the tub and gently tap them on the hand with a paper towel roll. (gently, not a smack!!) That snaps them out of feed mode instantly and I can pick them up. But I wouldn't do that while the smell of food is in the air. That is setting your animal and yourself up for failure.

If you came up to my tubs at night time, esp right now when they are going through a ravenous stage, you would think they are aggressive. But no, just looking for food, and ready to lunge out for it. They are perfectly fine during the day, and most of the year they aren't going quite that crazy for food.

Long story short, while this has worked for you for many years, just see if you can switch things up for that one snake. Take him out during the day, and NEVER while food is thawing or he is hungry and searching for food. See if his temperament is different then. Feed him in the cage. Then take him out a couple of days after eating, and during the day. (no rat scent in the air) See if he still acts iffy.

I meant to say HEAD, not hand. I gently tap them on the head. :rolleyes:

Thanks you guys makes sense. Will the snakes become confused if I try feeding them in their cage? I got three in tubs and the big one in a animal plastics cage. I dunno if the plate would keep substrate off, one likes to take his meal all over the place. I think they are smelling their food. Before my accident I had them in my so called man cave, now I'm in a very small apartment, probably no where to escape the smell. Forgot how good their sense of smell is.

Feeding a snake outside the enclosure is just the worse idea, setting you up to get tagged, it's not a matter of if it's a matter of when. They are in feed mode hours before being fed and hours after being fed, therefore you are setting yourself up for a bite every time.

There is not one single advantage in feeding outside the enclosure only inconvenience and risks. Not only risky for you but risky for the snake should it break a tooth while biting you.

Your snakes will have not issue transitionning.

Most people do feed in the enclosure, those that do not were usually misinformed, and led to believe a persistent myth.

I have fed hundreds in their encore without issues and regardless of the substrate.

I fed large constrictors for years in a separate feeding containers in the early nineties. I’m talking for years, what a mistake!! No benefits what so ever (besides one hell of an adrenaline rush). I don’t always agree with everything or everyone on here. But this right here, feeding in habitat, it is truly a no brainer. The snakes I have now are tiny compared to before and they still are aggressive as all get out at feeding time. Please just feed in enclosure. Trust me. Just unnecessary on every level. For you, for the animal, it’s just not.

And I've been feeding a countless number of all kinds of snakes IN their enclosures for literally decades with no problems handling them, just NEVER handling
them at feeding time. Please trust us on this...feed in their normal cages, always, and find ways to signal when it's time for you to just handle them.

Definitely makes more sense in their tubs, think I just heard about seperate container at one point and stuck with it. No problems for 12 years. Now being in a wheelchair it really became hard to get them transferred. Got sick of it, no fun for either of us. Any tips how to limit the substrate from getting on the rat? Got three in tubs and one in a animal plastics cage. Any advice on how to make it smooth. It hasn't been fun lately with less mobility

Use whatever works...it depends on the size of your cages. When I suggested using a paper plate or similar thing, you could use a shallow tray of some
kind, or even a new kitty-litter-box to just set in the cage for feeding. It's up to you. This way is much easier, besides being safer. There's no rush to remove
the "plate" either...wait until the next day if you want, or whenever the snake goes back in their hide to digest.

The one thing you don't want to use is paper or a towel (paper OR cloth) on the floor of the cage, as the dampness from the prey can make the paper or cloth
stick to the prey & get swallowed too, as their teeth catch on it. (& they cannot digest towels, that becomes emergency surgery)

One more suggestion: when you go to feed, your snake probably already knows food is on the way. Some are more apt to aggressively bite a hand reaching in
than others (even if you are just trying to put their "plate" in place). I have been known to use a ping-pong paddle in front of the doorway of the hide where the
snake is, just to keep them in there for a moment, & sometimes I even use it to back them up into the hide while I do something. A snake will also usually back
off with a short spritz of water in their face...it sounds so rude, but they do get rained on in the wild, & they do NOT associate it with you. So do what works, &
what you need do to, to avoid needless bites.

BTW, the idea of "feeding in a separate tub" comes up frequently on forums...it's a lousy idea that just keeps getting shared & believed, so don't feel bad.

I feed right on the substrate and I heat my rats in water, so they are wet. Granted, I roll them into my rat towel (used only for that purpose) so by the time I bring them to the cage, they are mostly dry.

I've fed that way on aspen and now on the coarser kind of coco coir. Only once did I have to remove a piece of aspen from a snakes mouth. Most of the time everything falls off while they work the rat into the mouth. If a little sticks, they will digest it. They digest bones and in the wild all kinds of stuff gets transferred into their mouth during eating.

If a little is in their mouth, they usually work it out without a couple of hours.

It just hasn't been a problem for me.

Depends on the substrate, but I'd rather my snakes do NOT ingest it...once in a while it can lodge in their mouth, for example, & cause irritation & infection.

Yes, they do ingest bits of stuff in the wild too, but these are our pets & presumably we want to prevent whatever problems we can foresee. I for one do not
enjoy trying to retrieve substrate stuck in a snake's mouth. Also, I believe that their digestive enzymes cannot digest wood, while they ARE designed to digest
bones & all that, so I'm siding with the OP on this: prevention.

Mine are on soft substrate now. There is no way it would work for me to put something under the rat.

For one, they are usually primed and ready to take the rat, there is no laying it down nicely on a mat or something, they grab right out of the air. I refuse to use anything that can bunch up, they've been known to eat it along with the rat.
On top of that, they drag the rat all over the place.

I would literally have to cover the entire floor with a mat of some sort. Knowing how BP's are about changing their environment, it would cause more stress then anything, akin to removing them from their home to eat.

The only other option would be to keep them on large sheets of paper. Since I love substrate for many reasons, that isn't a choice for me.

It may work for others, not saying that it doesn't. But it won't work for mine.

If I had them on Aspen with larger, solid pieces. I wouldn't do it.

I also don't like wood chip substrates. On coco coir, it isn't an issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

Mine are on soft substrate now. There is no way it would work for me to put something under the rat.

For one, they are usually primed and ready to take the rat, there is no laying it down nicely on a mat or something, they grab right out of the air. I refuse to use anything that can bunch up, they've been known to eat it along with the rat.
On top of that, they drag the rat all over the place.

I would literally have to cover the entire floor with a mat of some sort. Knowing how BP's are about changing their environment, it would cause more stress then anything, akin to removing them from their home to eat.

The only other option would be to keep them on large sheets of paper. Since I love substrate for many reasons, that isn't a choice for me.

It may work for others, not saying that it doesn't. But it won't work for mine.

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I understand where you're coming from- every snake & enclosure is a little different & I'm not at the OP's house, obviously...can only toss out suggestions to pick from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I understand where you're coming from- every snake & enclosure is a little different & I'm not at the OP's house, obviously...can only toss out suggestions to pick from.

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And the more, the better :)

I can't tell you the times when I've read others suggestion and thought to myself..now why didn't I think of that before !!

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

And the more, the better :)

I can't tell you the times when I've read others suggestion and thought to myself..now why didn't I think of that before !!

:)

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Well usually you can put something in the cage first on which to feed a ball python (judging from those I've kept in the past) but there's no way I could have done
that with the BCI I had for years :O...I could barely open her cage to get the rat in (being held by tongs) lol...the same goes for my large Florida rat snakes now.
Their food never touches the cage floor, but I picture most BPs waiting in their hides, with their faces poking out expectantly...however, even BPs don't all read the
same manual ("How to be a Ball Python"). ;) That's where my suggestions were coming from...to be "adjusted as needed".

Thanks everyone, good advice. I'm gonna try feeding one in his enclosure, he's always been the :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r:. The others I will continue the same routine. Might be looking into a rack system. Tubs seem to be the easier option in my position. My oldest in the animal plastic is so difficult for me to clean, get him out.