Adult Enclosure size.

do you all believe 24Lx14Wx17H is big enough for an adult BP?

I personally don't think so. Maybe a real small male, but definitely not a female. My male is floating just under 1000 grams and he's in a 40 breeder (36x18 foitprint). I can't imagine him in something smaller.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I personally don't think so. Maybe a real small male, but definitely not a female. My male is floating just under 1000 grams and he's in a 40 breeder (36x18 foitprint). I can't imagine him in something smaller.

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That is the size I actually was thinking IMO, but I see these tub setups and they are not clearly that big.

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

That is the size I actually was thinking IMO, but I see these tub setups and they are not clearly that big.

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I hear ya. I'm personally not a tub guy, so won't weigh in on that. Granted they stay hidden the vast majority of the time, I like to offer some places to roam a bit. And even though I'm usually asleep when he's out and about, I know he's using the entire space, I can see his tracks, items moved around, etc...

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I hear ya. I'm personally not a tub guy, so won't weigh in on that. Granted they stay hidden the vast majority of the time, I like to offer some places to roam a bit. And even though I'm usually asleep when he's out and about, I know he's using the entire space, I can see his tracks, items moved around, etc...

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Def agree! I am curious because I am trying to build a custom display piece out of a cabinet. Those measurements aren't exact but figured i get some opinions.

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

Def agree! I am curious because I am trying to build a custom display piece out of a cabinet. Those measurements aren't exact but figured i get some opinions.

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I love repurposing stuff. I almost turned a bureau into a 2 level enclosure, but I didn't like the interior depth. I'm in the process of turning into a tv stand instead.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I love repurposing stuff. I almost turned a bureau into a 2 level enclosure, but I didn't like the interior depth. I'm in the process of turning into a tv stand instead.

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Depth is always the challenge with repurposing furniture.

I think that's probably too small - IMO bigger is better, as long as the snake isn't a nervous nelly. My male is a hair over 1000g and is in a T11 AP cage (48L x 23(1/2)D x 18H), when I get a female I'd probably use a T11 at minimum but would prefer a T25 (72L x 30D x 18H).

I would say no. For starters, lots of people recommend providing at least three hides - warm, cool, and humid. You’d have a hard time fitting three hides and a water bowl in there, let alone anything else such as branches to “climb” on. (I’m putting “climb” in quotes because we’re still talking about heights where the snake could loop its body over the branch and still touch the ground with both ends, not exactly a dizzying height)

As a starting point, here are some things to think about: First, think about the footprint the adult snake takes up when it’s coiled up. Temperature zones such as the cool side and the hot side should be big enough for the snake to get its entire body into that zone if it wants to, and by definition there will be some transitional area between the two as well as probably some drop-off at the edges of the cage. It should also have enough head room to at least periscope as high as it can in the middle of the floor without leaning on a wall or other support. In other words, if the snake can lift its head eight inches above the floor unassisted, a six-inch-high enclosure won’t let it do that. Ideally I’d want to expand that to the height it can reach just by leaning on a smooth vertical wall. And in a perfect world, the enclosure should be as long as the snake’s body, or at least the diagonal should be. That might be a less necessary metric for a more slender species, but for a thicker bodied snake like a ball python it’s something to keep in mind.
The corrollary to this is that you then have to make the space useful and accessible to the snake by providing multiple different hides, platforms, and branches, and heating/humidifying appropriately.

I know that providing what I’ve just described for larger species is probably out of the question for most keepers, but ball pythons are not that big and unless you have a lot of them it’s really not that hard to accomplish. A 4’x2’x2’ vivarium is a standard, readily-available size that will do this for most adult ball pythons, and it’s not too ridiculously-sized to keep in your house and move if you need to.

My personal opinion is that the tubs used in rack systems are too small to allow for normal behaviors, even things as basic as hanging out in a different spot in the daytime versus at night.

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

I would say no. For starters, lots of people recommend providing at least three hides - warm, cool, and humid. You’d have a hard time fitting three hides and a water bowl in there, let alone anything else such as branches to “climb” on. (I’m putting “climb” in quotes because we’re still talking about heights where the snake could loop its body over the branch and still touch the ground with both ends, not exactly a dizzying height)

As a starting point, here are some things to think about: First, think about the footprint the adult snake takes up when it’s coiled up. Temperature zones such as the cool side and the hot side should be big enough for the snake to get its entire body into that zone if it wants to, and by definition there will be some transitional area between the two as well as probably some drop-off at the edges of the cage. It should also have enough head room to at least periscope as high as it can in the middle of the floor without leaning on a wall or other support. In other words, if the snake can lift its head eight inches above the floor unassisted, a six-inch-high enclosure won’t let it do that. Ideally I’d want to expand that to the height it can reach just by leaning on a smooth vertical wall. And in a perfect world, the enclosure should be as long as the snake’s body, or at least the diagonal should be. That might be a less necessary metric for a more slender species, but for a thicker bodied snake like a ball python it’s something to keep in mind.
The corrollary to this is that you then have to make the space useful and accessible to the snake by providing multiple different hides, platforms, and branches, and heating/humidifying appropriately.

I know that providing what I’ve just described for larger species is probably out of the question for most keepers, but ball pythons are not that big and unless you have a lot of them it’s really not that hard to accomplish. A 4’x2’x2’ vivarium is a standard, readily-available size that will do this for most adult ball pythons, and it’s not too ridiculously-sized to keep in your house and move if you need to.

My personal opinion is that the tubs used in rack systems are too small to allow for normal behaviors, even things as basic as hanging out in a different spot in the daytime versus at night.

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thanks for the i out! I agree woth the tubs i feel that is not a proper housing method as most are very small.

My 3 month 200 gram female is in a 24x18 Exo Terra. So I’ll say no.

I was always told that you want to go with a size that the snake can fully stretch out in comfortably. Or just slightly bigger. Whatever type of enclosure you use, you definitely want the animal to be able to stretch out and be able to fit all the hides/water dish.

Thanks. I agree with everyone on the size. Just curious now as to we all say it isn't big enough, but why do breeders feel it is fine to use the tubs and rack system.

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

Thanks. I agree with everyone on the size. Just curious now as to we all say it isn't big enough, but why do breeders feel it is fine to use the tubs and rack system.

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Because technically they don't really stretch out or really need it. Most of the time they're curled up in their hides.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

Because technically they don't really stretch out or really need it. Most of the time they're curled up in their hides.

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So than you would say the size I listed would be appropriate for an adult BP?

I am in noway saying which is right and which is wrong, I am just looking for opinions.

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

So than you would say the size I listed would be appropriate for an adult BP?

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I can't speak for all breeders, but all the ones I've heard a stated size use the CB70 or equivalent size for adults which is something like 33"×16". Your height is fine, but you're nearly a foot shorter than the length they use and slightly narrower to boot. Your dimensions just aren't comparable to adult BP racks that I know of. Closer to juvenile size tubs I would guess.

When talking tubs, height is irrelevant, so I left that off, and it really doesn't make up for lack of floor space for a BP.

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Originally Posted by pretends2bnormal

I can't speak for all breeders, but all the ones I've heard a stated size use the CB70 or equivalent size for adults which is something like 33"×16". Your height is fine, but you're nearly a foot shorter than the length they use and slightly narrower to boot. Your dimensions just aren't comparable to adult BP racks that I know of. Closer to juvenile size tubs I would guess.

When talking tubs, height is irrelevant, so I left that off, and it really doesn't make up for lack of floor space for a BP.

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That I understand. But I have seen people post on here that a 32qt tub is fine for up to 2000 grams. A 32 qt tub is 23-5/8 x 16-3/8 x 6-1/2 inches.

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

That I understand. But I have seen people post on here that a 32qt tub is fine for up to 2000 grams. A 32 qt tub is 23-5/8 x 16-3/8 x 6-1/2 inches.

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Yeah I totally disagree with those people. A 32 quart is for juveniles, I personally don’t want my snake in a tiny box 24/7

The length plus the width should be equal to or greater than the length of the snake. For example: my enclosure is 36x18 which equals 54”. So that enclosure will comfortably House a BP up to 54”. :)


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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

Yeah I totally disagree with those people. A 32 quart is for juveniles, I personally don’t want my snake in a tiny box 24/7

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That is why I asked the question. Either way if I do this little build most likely would home my Juvenile spider in there as a display case. But now want to remeasure asap to see what it truly is!

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Originally Posted by ErostheSnake

The length plus the width should be equal to or greater than the length of the snake. For example: my enclosure is 36x18 which equals 54”. So that enclosure will comfortably House a BP up to 54”. :)


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Now this makes much more sense.

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

That I understand. But I have seen people post on here that a 32qt tub is fine for up to 2000 grams. A 32 qt tub is 23-5/8 x 16-3/8 x 6-1/2 inches.

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Ah, I always took that to be a very dated opinion when I've seen it personally, or as something to be used for unusual trouble-feeders who prove they won't eat in larger enclosures. Only posts I really saw it on here were fairly old. I much prefer the length + width greater than or equal to length of snake if it is a tub, especially for a ball python. Cages of course to a similar or larger dimension than that.

My boy Obi regularly prowls his whole enclosure and re-arranges it all, and I can't imagine him doing it in smaller than at least that CB70 size tub. (He is 1,350-1,400g, 4 ft long, and in an AP T8 4'x2'x1')

Even if a breeder does it, that doesn't make it the best.

I heard someone say once that what (some) breeders do is make sure they live, while pet owners (and small breeders many times) put focus on them thriving and having the best possible life.

Will a cage that size kill a BP if heat and such is correct? No, probably not. Will it be able to truly thrive and have space to prowl if it wants or stretch out fully? Also no.

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Originally Posted by BPgirls

So than you would say the size I listed would be appropriate for an adult BP?

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It depends on the size of the adult. For example, my males are pretty small but my girls are huge.

I'd personally do something a little wider. My own thoughts on the subject is to provide the best enclosure you can. However, BPs also exist in tubs so it really becomes a personal decision.

Yes i only used those measurements as that was the size of the tank sitting on it at the time. So it was an eyeball measurement. Most likely it is about 30x20x20