Temperature help?

As some of you have seen, I've been trying to make sure I'm doing everything right. For my baby ball pythons terrarium, I've been using just a heating lamp. Some have said that a heating pad is a must, but the more I research the more I'm seeing that people have raised ball pythons without heating pads and just a heating lamp with no issues at all. So honestly, what should I do? Because I'm having people say back and forth that belly heat either is or isn't required, since the shaded areas they have in the wild don't really have warm ground.
Second, he's going on 2 months old here soon. The temperature pretty much stays between 92-93 degrees on the hot side and 78-80 degrees on the cool side. Is this okay? People have said they've had their hot spots between 90-95, so what do you guys have your hot spots at? One useful post did state that hatchlings should be at 88, so what should I do?
And since I've been trying to keep him at a decent temperature, I'm using a 75 watt red infrared heat bulb. Should I stick with the 75 watt or should I go with the 50 watt and use tin foil to keep the heat inside?

Hes in a 20gal glass terarrium.

Anything helps:)

I don't mean to sound so clueless, but I'm hearing things from both sides of every conversation between heating n such. I'm honestly lost on whether I'm doing things correctly or not.

Like I said, anything helps

There's several options that work. I don't keep BPs but I do keep other terrestrial species. RHPs are probably the most efficient heating method. I use a UTH as my primary heat source but I will add a CHE to boost my ambient temps during the winter. You could use a heat bulb but it'll bring your humidity down so you may have to work around that. I do think your hot side temps are a bit high. I keep mine around 88-90 tops.

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Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

There's several options that work. I don't keep BPs but I do keep other terrestrial species. RHPs are probably the most efficient heating method. I use a UTH as my primary heat source but I will add a CHE to boost my ambient temps during the winter. You could use a heat bulb but it'll bring your humidity down so you may have to work around that. I do think your hot side temps are a bit high. I keep mine around 88-90 tops.

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The heating lamp is over his hide, and I tried moving it to the corner next to his hide. But his temps dropped down to almost 85 degrees. I have half the top covered to help keep humidity slightly stable, so should I keep it on the other side and just cover up maybe another portion to help hold in the temperature? Down side is, I won't know what the temp would be over his water dish, but is it better than having it over his hide (which he hides in all day)?

I’ve used heat lamps & ceramic heat emiters (che) with glass tanks, uth for belly heat with certain Vision & PM Herps cages (most still had heat lamps or che), and now only radiant heat panels (rhp) with my Monster cages. I’ve had my normal ball for 26 years, and only a very few years did he have belly heat (4-5 years tops). I think that a lot depends on your house temps - if the room is consistently warm year round, the hot spot can be provided with uth. If you keep a cooler house, intentionally or not, you’ll need something for ambient heat in the cage and possibly a boost from uth for the hot side. As a side not, if you have thick substrate, uth aren’t the solution - heat can build up at glass level before ever reaching the surface potentially causing burns for burrowing snakes, and can also increase the risk of damage to the device such as shorts, melting, etc. Whatever you use, a thermostat is a must to make sure the temps are where the should be. You can double check the accuracy of the probe with heat guns (pretty inexpensive through Home Depot, Lowes, etc).

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Originally Posted by Dianne

I’ve used heat lamps & ceramic heat emiters (che) with glass tanks, uth for belly heat with certain Vision & PM Herps cages (most still had heat lamps or che), and now only radiant heat panels (rhp) with my Monster cages. I’ve had my normal ball for 26 years, and only a very few years did he have belly heat (4-5 years tops). I think that a lot depends on your house temps - if the room is consistently warm year round, the hot spot can be provided with uth. If you keep a cooler house, intentionally or not, you’ll need something for ambient heat in the cage and possibly a boost from uth for the hot side. As a side not, if you have thick substrate, uth aren’t the solution - heat can build up at glass level before ever reaching the surface potentially causing burns for burrowing snakes, and can also increase the risk of damage to the device such as shorts, melting, etc. Whatever you use, a thermostat is a must to make sure the temps are where the should be. You can double check the accuracy of the probe with heat guns (pretty inexpensive through Home Depot, Lowes, etc).

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My room temperature was usually 75 degrees, but now it's been stuck at 78, resulting in his cooler side temp being 80. I use cypress mulch as his substrate, so I'm unsure a UTH could work. Will he be okay with just a heat lamp?
As mentioned, I could just get a lesser watt bulb if his hot side temp is too high (as some people have mentioned). But is it unsafe to have his warm side hide under his heat lamp? Half of his water dish is under the heat lamp and it's basically always between 92-93. Sometimes 94, but I switch off the lamp and let it cool down some if it's getting close to 95.

As of right now, should I move his lamp so it's not directly over his hide? He's pretty much in there all day, but explores most of the night

You want to be sure to have at least 2 hides, one for the cool side and one for the hot side so he or she can thermoregulate. Balls will often stay too hot or too cold if they only have one hide as they are pretty shy...that actually goes for a lot of snakes. I don’t set any of my bp thermostats over 90F for the hot side, I usually aim for a high of 88F. My thermostats shut off the electricity to my rhp when the temperature reaches my allowed high temp, cutting on when it drops back to my minimum setting (I set a 5-6 degree range). If your tank is regularly hitting 95F requiring you to manually turn the lamp on and off, I would try a lower wattage bulb and invest in a thermostat. The thermostat will help maintain the correct temperature range without risking overheating your pet. A heat lamp over the water bowl will actually help boost the humidity, you’ll just need to check it regularly. I’d personally look to rinse and refresh the water daily, no more than every other day if it’s large enough to hold water that long.

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Originally Posted by Dianne

You want to be sure to have at least 2 hides, one for the cool side and one for the hot side so he or she can thermoregulate. Balls will often stay too hot or too cold if they only have one hide as they are pretty shy...that actually goes for a lot of snakes. I don’t set any of my bp thermostats over 90F for the hot side, I usually aim for a high of 88F. My thermostats shut off the electricity to my rhp when the temperature reaches my allowed high temp, cutting on when it drops back to my minimum setting (I set a 5-6 degree range). If your tank is regularly hitting 95F requiring you to manually turn the lamp on and off, I would try a lower wattage bulb and invest in a thermostat. The thermostat will help maintain the correct temperature range without risking overheating your pet. A heat lamp over the water bowl will actually help boost the humidity, you’ll just need to check it regularly. I’d personally look to rinse and refresh the water daily, no more than every other day if it’s large enough to hold water that long.

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He does have two hides, I just don't want him to cook s all. He seems to stay more on the warm side which sometimes makes me worry about him being in constant heat. Should I just move his heat lamp to his other corner so he's not constantly in over 90 degree temps? I'll probably just have to cover the mesh top to help trap in the heat so the warm side by his hide is somewhat decent, 'cause the temps near his hide will drop close to 85 degrees once I move his lamp to the other side of the warm side. Think it'll be okay if I don't have anything to monitor the temp above the water dish? Like I said, he's usually in his same spot until night where he explores

It sounds like your temperatures are fine. It doesn't have to be exact to the degree, as long as your snake has access to a range of temperatures and can choose where to go. As long as there are a few hides in different places, the snake can feel safe and secure at whatever temperature it needs at the moment. And it doesn't matter how you get there, there are lots of ways to do it. It sounds like you're fine for now. And for a young baby who's still new, it's probably better to leave things alone and let him/her adjust to the new environment without making constant changes if you don't need to.

That said, you might need to change things when the weather changes, depending on conditions in your house. If your house is colder, you will need more wattage in over form or another to get the temperature up, but you have plenty of time to think about that. A few things: a lamp that produces red light you can see is also visible to your snake, so it isn't actually dark if that's how you're heating the tank at night. A che makes no visible light, so that's better for night time use. If you use one, it should be on a thermostat. But I still, you're fine for now until the temperature in your house drops.

Radiant heat panels are also great, although a bit more expensive. If you do buy more heating equipment for winter, you might as well think about what you can use on whatever enclosure you get for when your baby outgrows the 20gal tank. It's worth it to spend money up front on heating equipment and a thermostat, even if it's expensive; it's still way cheaper than raising the thermostat in your whole house or running a space heater for the whole room.

I have never used any kind of belly heat - I have 2 CHE's on different thermostats (one set to 93 and one set to 85) this keeps the hot hide at 88-90 on the inside and the cool hide at 79-81 depending on room temp fluctuation. He also has a 'medium' hide that stays about 83-84 at all times too. Despite what everyone says about ball pythons not basking, mine comes out and curls onto one of his branches, rocks, or on top of the hides for a little bit almost every night, most often after eating. He's 3 years old and I've never had any problems. I also have tons of natural rocks and logs and the rocks absorb heat really well and he likes to rest on them as well.

He was in a glass tank until he hit 800ish grams when I upgraded to an AP cage. The biggest problem was humidity, and I had to get creative. As long as your heat sources are on thermostats and are within the correct range for a BP then he should do fine. Just watch your humidity with the lamps. Also, pick up a temp gun, one thing I learned is that the thermostat can be turning on and off at the proper temps, but the INSIDE of the hide may be cooler than the top depending on how thick the plastic is.

I have one hide that I experimented with by cutting a giant hole in the top, sanding the edges, then hot gluing repti-carpet over the hole to maintain the darkness. This helped with heat penetration but was harder to keep clean.

***This set up works for me, but my guy is not shy at all and has always been active at night. I have a T11 so there is room for three extra large "rock cave" hides from exo-terra as well as a 12 inch terracotta pot that is a hide, two java wood logs, and a ton of rocks, water dish and such. If your snake is more nervous than mine he may not come out as much either.

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

It sounds like your temperatures are fine. It doesn't have to be exact to the degree, as long as your snake has access to a range of temperatures and can choose where to go. As long as there are a few hides in different places, the snake can feel safe and secure at whatever temperature it needs at the moment. And it doesn't matter how you get there, there are lots of ways to do it. It sounds like you're fine for now. And for a young baby who's still new, it's probably better to leave things alone and let him/her adjust to the new environment without making constant changes if you don't need to.

That said, you might need to change things when the weather changes, depending on conditions in your house. If your house is colder, you will need more wattage in over form or another to get the temperature up, but you have plenty of time to think about that. A few things: a lamp that produces red light you can see is also visible to your snake, so it isn't actually dark if that's how you're heating the tank at night. A che makes no visible light, so that's better for night time use. If you use one, it should be on a thermostat. But I still, you're fine for now until the temperature in your house drops.

Radiant heat panels are also great, although a bit more expensive. If you do buy more heating equipment for winter, you might as well think about what you can use on whatever enclosure you get for when your baby outgrows the 20gal tank. It's worth it to spend money up front on heating equipment and a thermostat, even if it's expensive; it's still way cheaper than raising the thermostat in your whole house or running a space heater for the whole room.

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For the red light, should I switch to something he can't see? I did read and hear that you could leave them on 24/7. However, I have seen him bump the roof of the terrarium towards the lamp. Is that normal, or is that something I should be concerned about? He's also done this a couple times in other areas of his terrarium
And 93 degrees is not too hot for him? I've heard snakes realizing it's too late before they've gotten burned or gotten too hot. Will he know when it's a little too hot for him?

Again, excuse me. He traumatizes sometimes by the things I read or the things he does sometimes. Silly thing has me stressed almost every day I tell you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crowfingers

I have never used any kind of belly heat - I have 2 CHE's on different thermostats (one set to 93 and one set to 85) this keeps the hot hide at 88-90 on the inside and the cool hide at 79-81 depending on room temp fluctuation. He also has a 'medium' hide that stays about 83-84 at all times too. Despite what everyone says about ball pythons not basking, mine comes out and curls onto one of his branches, rocks, or on top of the hides for a little bit almost every night, most often after eating. He's 3 years old and I've never had any problems. I also have tons of natural rocks and logs and the rocks absorb heat really well and he likes to rest on them as well.

He was in a glass tank until he hit 800ish grams when I upgraded to an AP cage. The biggest problem was humidity, and I had to get creative. As long as your heat sources are on thermostats and are within the correct range for a BP then he should do fine. Just watch your humidity with the lamps. Also, pick up a temp gun, one thing I learned is that the thermostat can be turning on and off at the proper temps, but the INSIDE of the hide may be cooler than the top depending on how thick the plastic is.

I have one hide that I experimented with by cutting a giant hole in the top, sanding the edges, then hot gluing repti-carpet over the hole to maintain the darkness. This helped with heat penetration but was harder to keep clean.

***This set up works for me, but my guy is not shy at all and has always been active at night. I have a T11 so there is room for three extra large "rock cave" hides from exo-terra as well as a 12 inch terracotta pot that is a hide, two java wood logs, and a ton of rocks, water dish and such. If your snake is more nervous than mine he may not come out as much either.

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Thats wonderful:D Sounds like a good setup you have going on there!
Ive been hearing about these temp guns for the first time within these last couple of days. How on earth do those things work?

I think you're going to find varied answers to many of your questions. And for various reasons.

We live in a world where anybody can put anything on the internet, and sometimes pure bull plop spreads like wild fire.
Sometimes Jimmy at the local pet store tells a new keeper something and they tell two people and it ends up on social media, etc..etc...etc...

But the bottom line is this: different setups work for different animals in different geographic areas in different enclosures.

I personally only use belly heat in the winter. The rest of the year I run ambient temps. But that's what works for ME and MY animals where I live.

You're never going to get a large crowd to agree, especially when the topic is something people are passionate about.

I started experimenting once I had enough experience to know what I was looking for as far as changes in my animals behavior, eating patterns, etc...
Until then, I started basic, with what has been proven to work.

Unfortunately, when I started out in this hobby in 1999-2000ish there were no forums like this (or at least I didn't know about them) so I read books and did the best I could with what I knew, ugggh. Reptile carpet, heat lamp, HEAT ROCK....This hobby has come a long way, thank goodness!!!

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

I think you're going to find varied answers to many of your questions. And for various reasons.

We live in a world where anybody can put anything on the internet, and sometimes pure bull plop spreads like wild fire.
Sometimes Jimmy at the local pet store tells a new keeper something and they tell two people and it ends up on social media, etc..etc...etc...

But the bottom line is this: different setups work for different animals in different geographic areas in different enclosures.

I personally only use belly heat in the winter. The rest of the year I run ambient temps. But that's what works for ME and MY animals where I live.

You're never going to get a large crowd to agree, especially when the topic is something people are passionate about.

I started experimenting once I had enough experience to know what I was looking for as far as changes in my animals behavior, eating patterns, etc...
Until then, I started basic, with what has been proven to work.

Unfortunately, when I started out in this hobby in 1999-2000ish there were no forums like this (or at least I didn't know about them) so I read books and did the best I could with what I knew, ugggh. Reptile carpet, heat lamp, HEAT ROCK....This hobby has come a long way, thank goodness!!!

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That's amazing to hear!:D Also, both very helpful and true post. Honestly that's why I was still confused between knowing what to do. But luckily, I've been getting a lot of good advice from all around, so I kind of have a sense of how to take care of things n such.
It's a good thing we have these forums nowadays, huh?

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Originally Posted by Traceur

That's amazing to hear!:D Also, both very helpful and true post. Honestly that's why I was still confused between knowing what to do. But luckily, I've been getting a lot of good advice from all around, so I kind of have a sense of how to take care of things n such.
It's a good thing we have these forums nowadays, huh?

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This forum is such an awesome resource. Whether you're just developing an interest in snakes or you've got 20 years experience there's always something to learn. And the community as a whole is fantastic.

I'm not sure where you're located geographically (might have missed it if you mentioned it) but if you're in a warmer climate things will be less challenging.
I know for myself, in MA, the New England winters can get cold. So artificial heat in the house makes humidity more challenging, but I just make some adjustments a pay a little closer attention.
So much of what I've learned through the years is trial and error. But starting out its important to stick to basics. Go with what works, learn your animal and slowly start tweaking things to find what works best for you and your animal in the long term.

Ball pythons are hardy, adaptable animals and there are many ways to provide them with their basic necessities. I think it's better not to use a red heat lamp at night because in the wild it is dark at night. And it is important to provide them with enough change in light that they can tell day from night, but if the room has windows that's probably enough. But either way, the red light isn't that big of a deal. Your snake will be fine.

For heat, a couple of degrees is really not a big deal, especially at the cool end, and especially if there's also a warm end. Again, in the wild they have access to a range of temperatures and they choose where they need to go.

For what it's worth, I'm in New England too. My living room gets below 60° in the winter sometimes, and it gets above 90 in the summer because I don't have A/C. So I've had to give a lot of thought to things like insulation and heat retention, but once it's set up it basically takes care of itself.

Just keep in mind that you are going to need to change things when the weather changes and your house gets colder. I'm assuming you aren't using a thermostat with your red lamp now, since it's incandescent. If you get a ceramic heat emitter, you can put it on a thermostat and it will keep the temperature stable where you need it. If in doubt, go for a higher wattage one, since the thermostat will keep it from getting hotter than necessary. Same story if you go for a radiant heat panel. The main practical differences between those options are how you mount them, so it's worth thinking about what your snake's grownup home will be to make it easier to keep using the same heating equipment.

A temp gun is just that - it's a little hand help device and when you pull the "trigger" a red laser light shows where your pointing and it reads the surface temperature of the specific location. They don't do ambient temperature, but if the inside of the a hide's floor is reading 90, then the air inside the hide is guaranteed to be warmer than the air outside of the hide.

I get mine on amazon for like $20

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....S327_QL65_.jpg

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

This forum is such an awesome resource. Whether you're just developing an interest in snakes or you've got 20 years experience there's always something to learn. And the community as a whole is fantastic.

I'm not sure where you're located geographically (might have missed it if you mentioned it) but if you're in a warmer climate things will be less challenging.
I know for myself, in MA, the New England winters can get cold. So artificial heat in the house makes humidity more challenging, but I just make some adjustments a pay a little closer attention.
So much of what I've learned through the years is trial and error. But starting out its important to stick to basics. Go with what works, learn your animal and slowly start tweaking things to find what works best for you and your animal in the long term.

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Where I live, it's usually not too bad. Winters haven't really been that cold for the last few years, but since its super easy for me to get hot, I have my room as the coldest room in the house. In winters, it's average has been 68 degrees. But in summer, it varies between 72-75 degrees. My rooms temperature doesn't dramatically change, if not at all, so I'm not too worried about temps. But I'm looking into getting a lower wattage bulb (50 watt), so that way his temps aren't capable of reaching 95 degrees. I did read on my last tread for humidity that tin foil does help trap heat (can't remember if it was you or someone else who mentioned it), but I'm planning on experimenting with a 50 watt bulb and see what it does for him :)

I agree with you though. This is a great source for info. It's nice having people help me with complicated questions even google can't answer for me. Especially with experienced owners, it helps so much!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Coluber42

Ball pythons are hardy, adaptable animals and there are many ways to provide them with their basic necessities. I think it's better not to use a red heat lamp at night because in the wild it is dark at night. And it is important to provide them with enough change in light that they can tell day from night, but if the room has windows that's probably enough. But either way, the red light isn't that big of a deal. Your snake will be fine.

For heat, a couple of degrees is really not a big deal, especially at the cool end, and especially if there's also a warm end. Again, in the wild they have access to a range of temperatures and they choose where they need to go.

For what it's worth, I'm in New England too. My living room gets below 60° in the winter sometimes, and it gets above 90 in the summer because I don't have A/C. So I've had to give a lot of thought to things like insulation and heat retention, but once it's set up it basically takes care of itself.

Just keep in mind that you are going to need to change things when the weather changes and your house gets colder. I'm assuming you aren't using a thermostat with your red lamp now, since it's incandescent. If you get a ceramic heat emitter, you can put it on a thermostat and it will keep the temperature stable where you need it. If in doubt, go for a higher wattage one, since the thermostat will keep it from getting hotter than necessary. Same story if you go for a radiant heat panel. The main practical differences between those options are how you mount them, so it's worth thinking about what your snake's grownup home will be to make it easier to keep using the same heating equipment.

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I managed to keep the temps in my room relatively decent, so hopefully it doesn't affect his temps that much. But if it does, I'm sure it won't be that much of a hassle. As for windows, my only window has the thickest curtain I can manage. So I make artificial light for him. His day time light is through a strand of Christmas lights which give a pretty good glow, and then his night time lights are 4 small fake candles that make the room a very dim blue. He does seem to know when night time is, because when I have the day off, I won't really even see him come out. But when the candles are on, he begins exploring n such. But he had a weird reaction to his water.
He slowly put his head in there and fell out almost backwards. Is that bad? I haven't even seen him drink or bask in his water dish. And I honesty have not seen any snake turds around. But maybe he went before they shipped him so he wouldn't be traveling in his own feces (which is good). But for the water thing is that something I should worry about?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crowfingers

A temp gun is just that - it's a little hand help device and when you pull the "trigger" a red laser light shows where your pointing and it reads the surface temperature of the specific location. They don't do ambient temperature, but if the inside of the a hide's floor is reading 90, then the air inside the hide is guaranteed to be warmer than the air outside of the hide.

I get mine on amazon for like $20

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....S327_QL65_.jpg

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Sounds great! I'll look into getting one:)
Thanks for the help!

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Originally Posted by Traceur

Sounds great! I'll look into getting one[emoji4]
Thanks for the help!

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You can get them for less than 10 dollars off eBay or Amazon ..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8d515628e0.jpg
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

You can get them for less than 10 dollars off eBay or Amazon ..

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...8d515628e0.jpg
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

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Awesome! Thank you:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Traceur

Where I live, it's usually not too bad. Winters haven't really been that cold for the last few years, but since its super easy for me to get hot, I have my room as the coldest room in the house. In winters, it's average has been 68 degrees. But in summer, it varies between 72-75 degrees. My rooms temperature doesn't dramatically change, if not at all, so I'm not too worried about temps. But I'm looking into getting a lower wattage bulb (50 watt), so that way his temps aren't capable of reaching 95 degrees. I did read on my last tread for humidity that tin foil does help trap heat (can't remember if it was you or someone else who mentioned it), but I'm planning on experimenting with a 50 watt bulb and see what it does for him :)

I agree with you though. This is a great source for info. It's nice having people help me with complicated questions even google can't answer for me. Especially with experienced owners, it helps so much!

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Ok, with ambient temps like that in the room you'll need an additional heat source. I would use a UTH (heat mat) as well as your lights, BOTH REGULATED BY A THERMOSTAT (VERY IMPORTANT- are you currently using a thermostat?) You could also try CHEs (ceramic heat emitter). I would be happy to share with you what I do with my enclosures for the winter if you'd like. To briefly summarize, I use 1/2" foam board insulation. I use it to keep heat and humidity in the tank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Ok, with ambient temps like that in the room you'll need an additional heat source. I would use a UTH (heat mat) as well as your lights, BOTH REGULATED BY A THERMOSTAT (VERY IMPORTANT- are you currently using a thermostat?) You could also try CHEs (ceramic heat emitter). I would be happy to share with you what I do with my enclosures for the winter if you'd like. To briefly summarize, I use 1/2" foam board insulation. I use it to keep heat and humidity in the tank.

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Sure thing! Ever since I set up his terrarium, my room temp has stayed the same (78 degrees). My thermostat should be arriving here soon actually :)

What do you do with your enclosures during all the other seasons as well?