Can I get by with just a Radiant heat panel?

I have my bp set up in a 30” exo terra. I have a heat mat, set to 90F against the glass, and a RHP set to 80ish (78-82 depending on room temp). My bp does not burrow, and with the substrate, I don’t think he’s getting much belly heat out of the heat mat. I don’t dare turn up the heat in case he does decide to burrow some day.

So! I am wondering if I can get rid of the heat mat altogether, and just heat the cage with the heat panel. Maybe get a piece of slate rock, elevated, to absorb some rhp heat for him to lie on? And if so, what would I set the ambient temperature at?

And also if so, my rhp is almost the same size as the lid, so it’s not providing a huge range from cool side to warm side. I was relying on the heat mat to give him a warm side. Should I get a small one or can I use vertical levels (higher slate rock for warm, half-buried cave for cool)?

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Originally Posted by Zoe

I have my bp set up in a 30” exo terra. I have a heat mat, set to 90F against the glass, and a RHP set to 80ish (78-82 depending on room temp). My bp does not burrow, and with the substrate, I don’t think he’s getting much belly heat out of the heat mat. I don’t dare turn up the heat in case he does decide to burrow some day.

So! I am wondering if I can get rid of the heat mat altogether, and just heat the cage with the heat panel. Maybe get a piece of slate rock, elevated, to absorb some rhp heat for him to lie on? And if so, what would I set the ambient temperature at?

And also if so, my rhp is almost the same size as the lid, so it’s not providing a huge range from cool side to warm side. I was relying on the heat mat to give him a warm side. Should I get a small one or can I use vertical levels (higher slate rock for warm, half-buried cave for cool)?

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I don’t see why the levels thing wouldn’t work, as long as you got the temps right and have matching hides. Keep in mind that BPs are nocturnal so they aren’t baskers.... Your snake is unlikely to go sit on a slab of rock unless he’s got a place where he can be sheltered and hidden. They will choose security over warmth.

However, what I do is just push some substrate away under the hide so the glass is exposed and they have that hot spot to lay on for digestion.


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Originally Posted by Zoe

I have my bp set up in a 30” exo terra. I have a heat mat, set to 90F against the glass, and a RHP set to 80ish (78-82 depending on room temp). My bp does not burrow, and with the substrate, I don’t think he’s getting much belly heat out of the heat mat. I don’t dare turn up the heat in case he does decide to burrow some day.

So! I am wondering if I can get rid of the heat mat altogether, and just heat the cage with the heat panel. Maybe get a piece of slate rock, elevated, to absorb some rhp heat for him to lie on? And if so, what would I set the ambient temperature at?

And also if so, my rhp is almost the same size as the lid, so it’s not providing a huge range from cool side to warm side. I was relying on the heat mat to give him a warm side. Should I get a small one or can I use vertical levels (higher slate rock for warm, half-buried cave for cool)?

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Your heat mat should be providing a hot spot to aid in digestion. If you have your heat sources regulated by a thermostat you don't need to worry about your snake burrowing and being burned.

So, if you use the RHP to create an ambient temp of 82ish and your heat mat to create a hot spot of 89-90 then you have a gradient and a hot spot for digestion.

But, it is VERY important to regulate ALL heat sources with a thermostat.

Thanks - yes, it is regulated with a thermostat, but between the glass and the substrate, he's not getting much heat from it. My concern is that if I turn up the heat pad high enough that it gets all the way to him, it will be too hot right against the glass. The substrate isn't very thick, but it still seems to insulate the heat. Maybe it's better than nothing!

My advice is to check the hotspot temps with a temp gun take the animal out of its hide. place the hide back down then check the temps while the hide is still over the spot. Heat pads on glass are known to cause cracks in the glass, so exposing the glass so the animal can rest on it is always unwise. Not only could the animal be cut by the glass if it's cracked by the heat pad but burns could also happen very easily if they lay on the glass. Since it sounds like your heat pad is inside the enclosure, what I would personally do to avoid the risk of cracking the glass, is get a piece of PVC or HDPE sheeting, cut it to be a little larger than the heat pad and place it underneath, then add your temp probe and substrate over it. This will prevent concerns of the glass breaking and PVC and HDPE are very commonly used in reptile enclosures. check temps hourly or at regular intervals and wait for it to stabilize then just adjust your controller as needed.

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Originally Posted by Spookychief

My advice is to check the hotspot temps with a temp gun take the animal out of its hide. place the hide back down then check the temps while the hide is still over the spot. Heat pads on glass are known to cause cracks in the glass, so exposing the glass so the animal can rest on it is always unwise. Not only could the animal be cut by the glass if it's cracked by the heat pad but burns could also happen very easily if they lay on the glass. Since it sounds like your heat pad is inside the enclosure, what I would personally do to avoid the risk of cracking the glass, is get a piece of PVC or HDPE sheeting, cut it to be a little larger than the heat pad and place it underneath the heat pad secure it down on the edges with some aluminum tape used in HVAC systems, it adheres really well, just be sure to clean the glass prior to placing it down. then add your temp probe and substrate over it. This will prevent concerns of the glass breaking and PVC and HDPE are very commonly used in reptile enclosures. check temps hourly or at regular intervals and wait for it to stabilize then just adjust your controller as needed.

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The heat pad is on the underside of the glass bottom (which I supposed makes no difference for cracking risk).

If I wanted to do away with the heat pad altogether and just a radiant heat panel, would that be acceptable? I would swap out the large RHP with a smaller one, I think, to heat one side to a higher temp. It would simplify things which I like and also I think he would get more access to heat than he is currently, since he's not getting much heat from the heat pad. The substrate surface above it is only a couple degrees higher than the ambiant temp.

conventional keeping methods advise the use of a heating pad and honestly, they work well. I would suggest if you suspect that the heat pad isn't working or providing the correct amount of heat then measure the temperature of the hot spot with a temp gun and check that reading. If the temp is in that high 80s range then leave it. Radiant heat panels are great for keeping ambient temps up but they are just not effective enough to provide a hot spot, in my opinion, but that certainly doesn't mean it cant be done.

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Originally Posted by Spookychief

Radiant heat panels are great for keeping ambient temps up but they are just not effective enough to provide a hot spot, in my opinion, but that certainly doesn't mean it cant be done.

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I'm not sure if I 100% agree with this statement but I'll preface it by saying this is only based on what I've researched and a couple weeks of testing out my new AP enclosure which ONLY has an RHP installed. I have my Thermostat probe hanging 2/3 down the wall on the cool side and I have it set to create the ambient temp I'm looking for. This in turn also creates a nice temp gradient where my warm side surface is the high 80s where I want it to be. It's all about giving yourself enough time to play with the Thermostat temps to get the right numbers in each area of your enclosure.

Two things which jumped out at me while reading some of the OPs posts were the RHP measuring the same size as the lid and raising the temp of the heat pad to maximize the heat that the BP will feel. If your RHP is the size of the lid, you probably won't be able to create a temperature gradient unless your only using it to control your cool side and your Thermostat is right underneath it and your using a heating pad for the hot side.

When using a heating pad (or RHP, etc...), you want the absolute bottom surface where a snake 'may' burrow to be no hotter then the range you need it to be. Don't raise the temp thinking the substrate needs to be at that level. A snake will burrow to find the heat he/she needs.

As long as your heat mat is regulated it's not going to crack the glass. Heat spikes can do that, but temps need to get real high for that to happen. Think of it this way: our bodies are over 98 degrees. Does glass crack if you hold it in your hands for a while? No. So a regulated heat mat won't crack it either.

You should be checking the actual glass surface temps with a temp gun. Then use those readings to adjust your tstat. Move it up a little at a time, check it again and keep going til your reading are 89-90. There will be variance from tank to tank, heat mat to heat mat, etc...so it's a game of trial and error. My tstats are anywhere from 92-96 to get 88-90 hot spots.

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

I'm not sure if I 100% agree with this statement but I'll preface it by saying this is only based on what I've researched and a couple weeks of testing out my new AP enclosure which ONLY has an RHP installed. I have my Thermostat probe hanging 2/3 down the wall on the cool side and I have it set to create the ambient temp I'm looking for. This in turn also creates a nice temp gradient where my warm side surface is the high 80s where I want it to be. It's all about giving yourself enough time to play with the Thermostat temps to get the right numbers in each area of your enclosure.

Two things which jumped out at me while reading some of the OPs posts were the RHP measuring the same size as the lid and raising the temp of the heat pad to maximize the heat that the BP will feel. If your RHP is the size of the lid, you probably won't be able to create a temperature gradient unless your only using it to control your cool side and your Thermostat is right underneath it and your using a heating pad for the hot side.

When using a heating pad (or RHP, etc...), you want the absolute bottom surface where a snake 'may' burrow to be no hotter then the range you need it to be. Don't raise the temp thinking the substrate needs to be at that level. A snake will burrow to find the heat he/she needs.

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Ya, I agree with this. RHPs are great products and i personally use them in my setups but i just haven't experimented with them as sole heat sources, which is why I mentioned that it was my just my opinion :D. People have different methods of keeping snakes so it's always good to hear what people have to offer as advice and hear what they have had success with. There's nothing wrong with experimenting a little bit to see what is effective and what isn't. Cool to hear that RHP's are working well as sole heat sources in AP cages and I wonder how effective they are as sole heat sources in glass setups? I just picked up a normal female and shes in a temporary glass setup while i work on building an enclosure for her so maybe I'll mess around with it a bit and see how the RHP performs by itself, maybe i'll learn something new from it. I know the OP also mentioned that they would change out the large RHP for a smaller one to aid in creating that heat gradient.

Thanks! Well, I am shopping around for a smaller RHP. When I get it, I'll disconnect the heat pad and see what happens! My plan is to build up the substrate on one side and find a hide material that is more conductive of heat, see if I can't get it to 89-91 in the hide.

From experience, I find the RHP VERY effective at heating the glass tank (note that it does have a wood lid and cork board on the back). Mine is 80W and it's barely on (the indicator light flickers), and it adds about 10 degrees to the tank. It goes up a smidge higher in the winter when it's colder in the room, but still barely. Even in a larger tank, I can't imagine how hot it would get at full temp. I'm shopping for a 40W at the moment.

I would keep the RHP for ambient temperature and the UTH for belly heat.

As others have said, the sensor for the thermostat goes between the UTH and the glass tank bottom. Using your temp gun, you should measure the temperature directly on the glass tank bottom without any substrate.

Don't worry if the surface temperature above your UTH is lower than 90 degrees after you add substrate. Your BP WILL move the substrate out of the way if he wants more heat.

And you can save some money by not putting down too much substrate. By the time your BP weighs a few hundred grams he'll be pushing around anything and everything that's in his way.

Needing "belly heat for digestion" is a myth, it's really not necessary! If you have a properly regulated RHP with correct ambient temps on the warm side, you don't need a heat pad. :)

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Originally Posted by larryd23

I would keep the RHP for ambient temperature and the UTH for belly heat.

As others have said, the sensor for the thermostat goes between the UTH and the glass tank bottom. Using your temp gun, you should measure the temperature directly on the glass tank bottom without any substrate.

Don't worry if the surface temperature above your UTH is lower than 90 degrees after you add substrate. Your BP WILL move the substrate out of the way if he wants more heat.

And you can save some money by not putting down too much substrate. By the time your BP weighs a few hundred grams he'll be pushing around anything and everything that's in his way.

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Oh he's a young adult, still doesn't move any substrate around for anything. Lazy boy :rolleyes: He may also just not know that he needs to dig down for more heat. Not that he's ever had any issues digesting or anything so the status-quo is fine... just a lot of cords for not much heat payoff, I think.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Needing "belly heat for digestion" is a myth, it's really not necessary! If you have a properly regulated RHP with correct ambient temps on the warm side, you don't need a heat pad. :)

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Thanks, this is what I suspected, as I don't think they would get belly heat in the wild - except for coming out at dusk and hanging out on a sun-warmed rock for a bit, I suppose, which I can simulate.

I'm gonna do it! I'll report back if it works out well or if the whole thing implodes.

In case anyone is interested, I wanted to give you an update:

I went ahead and got a 40W radiant heat panel (the old was 120W... yikes).

I hooked it up to the thermostat and set it to about 93F (1-2" under the surface of the RHP). The first problem was it wasn't strong enough unless the temperature in the room was 80F+. Then, when the temp was that high, the whole tank was too warm (84F on the cool side).

So, I had to build up the substrate on one side of the tank about 4" higher than the other side, using driftwood branches to contain the extra substrate. For the cool hide, I use a corner hide that can be butted up against the glass, and with very little substrate on the ground, and build up a little mound of substrate around it - with the intention to further insulate the cool side hide from the heat. Not sure if that is making any difference.

With the warm hide that much closer to the RHP, I was able to lower the RHP and create a better temp balance. The cool hide is now 79-80, inside the warm hide is 88-90, the top surface of the warm hide is 90-92, and the ambient temp is 80-85. He is using both hides, and I'm happy with the new setup, knowing that even if the thermostat fails he is at pretty low risk of overheating even with the RHP at full blast (at least, not quickly) and at no risk of burning. Also glad to cut down on wires and potential failure points.

I've never heard of a burrowing BP. For lots of people the only substrate is a few sheets of newspaper. If your heat mat is so far away from the surface of the substrate that it cannot get it up to ~90f, you need to remove alot of that substrate. A heat mat (in my experience, yours may vary so check) won't get hot enough to burn a snake. If you just plug in the heatmat without a thermostat and let it get as hot as it can get before shooting a temp gun at it, you'll see it reaches a max of about 110f - about 44c. The minimum temp for causing a burn to human skin (after 5-6 hours of contact) is 44c. Snake scales are far more resiliant than human skin, besides, BPs can see heat and they aren't stupid.

If you start mounting substrate on one side to correct the temps, it's going to drive you crazy because your snake doesn't care and will mess it up all the time. I reccomend just a heat lamp on a dimming thermostat to regulate the ambient temp and a heat mat for the warm hide, also on a thermostat. Don't worry about having tonnes of substrate, 3 sheets of newspaper laid flat is fine. The point of substrate is mainly to soak up urine. The amount you need is the amount it takes to soak up a pee.

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Originally Posted by seercirra

I've never heard of a burrowing BP. For lots of people the only substrate is a few sheets of newspaper. If your heat mat is so far away from the surface of the substrate that it cannot get it up to ~90f, you need to remove alot of that substrate. A heat mat (in my experience, yours may vary so check) won't get hot enough to burn a snake. If you just plug in the heatmat without a thermostat and let it get as hot as it can get before shooting a temp gun at it, you'll see it reaches a max of about 110f - about 44c. The minimum temp for causing a burn to human skin (after 5-6 hours of contact) is 44c. Snake scales are far more resiliant than human skin, besides, BPs can see heat and they aren't stupid.

If you start mounting substrate on one side to correct the temps, it's going to drive you crazy because your snake doesn't care and will mess it up all the time. I reccomend just a heat lamp on a dimming thermostat to regulate the ambient temp and a heat mat for the warm hide, also on a thermostat. Don't worry about having tonnes of substrate, 3 sheets of newspaper laid flat is fine. The point of substrate is mainly to soak up urine. The amount you need is the amount it takes to soak up a pee.

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Please never tell anybody to use a heat source without a thermostat lol.

BP's don't "burrow", but they do push aside substrate and will sit at the bottom of the enclosure.

Only Ultratherms get to around 115-120 F max, but some other brands of heat mats get up to 130 F within 10 minutes if not regulated by a thermostat.

Your option are pretty simple

A/ You offer a cool side 76/78 and a hot side 86/88 how you provide that is up to you there are methods that offer less heat loss and are more cost effective.

B/ You offer ambient temp alone around 85 the way you do this is again up to you.

If the animal has access to temps in the mid 80's it will digest properly.

For our 4x2 PVC enclosure we use a Reptile Basics 80 watt RHP as the single heat source. It works great. Hot spot is 88-99, ambient on the cool side is around 81. RHP's heat up objects moreso than the air, so unless your home is kept pretty cool, I'd think having both a RHP and UTH would be overkill. Our house is around 74/75 in summer and 70 in winter. Thermostat for RHP is currently set to 87, we'll probably have to bump it up when it gets cold out.