Baby ball striking behavior

Hello,

I just got my third ball python(bumblebee) few days ago. She is almost 2 months old and weight at 107g. I got my first two when they were between hatchling and juvenile which were well started.
Curiosity came up when I got struck by my bumblebee ball python twice on different day. My other two never struck at me even if hands were in front of their face, guessing they were kind of tamed as hatchlings or just nice haha.
Anyways, this was my first time getting struck by ball and was a shock lol. Didn't hurt but felt like actually owning a snake. Ofc my hands were in the strike range but since I never experienced it, I wasn't really cautious about it.
I know babies can be nippy and could be fixed by constant handling. My question is that, do all ball pythons get tamed as they grow up? even if they are super nippy as baby? or are there some balls that will still strike as they grow even with constant handling?
What are reasons for striking? stress? scared? She was fed so it probably wasn't hunger, but it has only been about 4 days since I brought her to new environment. She is in a hatching size tub in a rack.

I just hope this girl would get tamed and not strike when she grows. I wanted to hear some stories or experience from people who has more experience with babies. I only have 6 months experience of keeping balls and first time getting actual baby I guess.

They grow out of the nippy stage at around 250 grams granted they are provided with the right condition, stress free environment and are adequately fed.

How big is your enclosure?

My current female was nippy as a little hatchling and has struck at me more times than I can count, but most of it was feinting or hitting me with a slightly open mouth LOL. She's just a very nervous girl in personality. Now, she can still be very nervous depending on her mood, but the nipping/striking has stopped.

You just want to do short, calm handling sessions every other day and don't immediately put her back/back away if she strikes at you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

They grow out of the nippy stage at around 250 grams granted they are provided with the right condition, stress free environment and are adequately fed.

How big is your enclosure?

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I have a V-70 rack and I know that was tooooooooooooo big for her so what I did was got this small tub and cut down the bottom so that she could get heat directly. Works great so far, good temperature gradient with 90 hot and 78-80 cool.

Should I handle her time to time so she gets tamed? or do they just grow out of that stage by themselves? How often should I feed her? she is at fuzzy rat right now, and seems to be controversial among the forum from 4~5 days to once a week routine for babies like this. She ate 2 days ago, and already pooped and peed today. Oh and also another question, should I provide a hide for her? I have small hide that fits her snuggly but can only fit one in there so I figured I shouldn’t so she chooses temp over security. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b4334cb09a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...66c9e76358.jpg


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Handling or lack their off does not make a BP more or less tame, if it was me I would leave her alone and I would lower the temps a bit 86/88 at most.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

My current female was nippy as a little hatchling and has struck at me more times than I can count, but most of it was feinting or hitting me with a slightly open mouth LOL. She's just a very nervous girl in personality. Now, she can still be very nervous depending on her mood, but the nipping/striking has stopped.

You just want to do short, calm handling sessions every other day and don't immediately put her back/back away if she strikes at you.

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Oh yes definitely. Thanks for the advice:)


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Handling or lack their off does not make a BP more or less tame, if it was me I would leave her alone and I would lower the temps a bit 86/88 at most.

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Is it better to have little lower hotspot?


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My Banana Pinstripe was like this but he also went into shed right when he got here. Really mellowed out with his new skin and having settled in. He was about the same size as yours not that that means much .


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by gusanr14

I have a V-70 rack and I know that was tooooooooooooo big for her so what I did was got this small tub and cut down the bottom so that she could get heat directly. Works great so far, good temperature gradient with 90 hot and 78-80 cool.

Should I handle her time to time so she gets tamed? or do they just grow out of that stage by themselves? How often should I feed her? she is at fuzzy rat right now, and seems to be controversial among the forum from 4~5 days to once a week routine for babies like this. She ate 2 days ago, and already pooped and peed today. Oh and also another question, should I provide a hide for her? I have small hide that fits her snuggly but can only fit one in there so I figured I shouldn’t so she chooses temp over security. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b4334cb09a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...66c9e76358.jpg


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It's great that she's fed already and that's very good news .

More than just about any other snake , Royals need and thrive in a 'stress free environment'.

I don't use rubs but it's generally that Royals prefer/need two snug fitting hides ( warm and cool) ...

So I'd get rid of that huge water dish as they rarely choose to soak ( unless they've got mites) .
I would actually suggest a much smaller glass / pot water dish then you can put two small hides in there .. they really don't like open spaces so some fake silk / plastic foliage would add some clutter and help it feel more secure . Add a couple of branches and it will think it's her birthday [emoji4]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

It's great that she's fed already and that's very good news .

More than just about any other snake , Royals need and thrive in a 'stress free environment'.

I don't use rubs but it's generally that Royals prefer/need two snug fitting hides ( warm and cool) ...

So I'd get rid of that huge water dish as they rarely choose to soak ( unless they've got mites) .
I would actually suggest a much smaller glass / pot water dish then you can put two small hides in there .. they really don't like open spaces so some fake silk / plastic foliage would add some clutter and help it feel more secure . Add a couple of branches and it will think it's her birthday [emoji4]


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Here are a few ideas ..

I'd use Orchid / Repti / Reptile bark as the substrate ( as shown on the first photo ) as it looks great and natural , holds humidity really well AND it's dark in colour so that will make your beautiful snake look even better ( if that's possible). [emoji4]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...008a982c0.jpeghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9e05783ec.jpeghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7e7147e9b.jpeg


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I'll just add that ALL "baby" snakes are instinctively afraid and defensive. They are easy prey at that size, so don't take the "striking" personally...they gradually
learn that we aren't predators, but there's absolutely no rush to handle & further stress them: for all "baby" snakes (whether hatchling or neonate), feeding &
growing stronger is "Job #1". You don't bring a human baby home from the hospital & expect them to play catch in your yard...likewise, be patient while your
little python grows, gets stronger & learns a bit about life. Enjoy their cuteness, they won't be this size forever. "Attitude" right now means very little, it's normal.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Handling or lack their off does not make a BP more or less tame

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I have found this to not be the case. What happens during the first week starting at pip or cut seems to affect future behavior. I had concerns that most of the behaviors including aggression and eating problems were pre-programmed and or genetic, this years experiments so far show that this is not the case. I have one more clutch to go before I have convinced at least myself that "nurture" outweighs genetics.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I have found this to not be the case. What happens during the first week starting at pip or cut seems to affect future behavior. I had concerns that most of the behaviors including aggression and eating problems were pre-programmed and or genetic, this years experiments so far show that this is not the case. I have one more clutch to go before I have convinced at least myself that "nurture" outweighs genetics.

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I'm happy to keep an open mind about this, but then again, I'm not someone who has any difficulty "taming" snakes, so for me, I want snakes to "eat first" and
then "we'll talk..." :snake::zerb: :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'm happy to keep an open mind about this, but then again, I'm not someone who has any difficulty "taming" snakes, so for me, I want snakes to "eat first" and
then "we'll talk..." :snake::zerb: :rofl:

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This seems to be the prevailing wisdom. However, I am a "what if I tried this type person". I have purchased adults and sub adults that have issues. Three to be exact. One of them I got because she had an attitude problem and I wanted something to keep me on my toes. The most I have been able to do with those three is make them manageable. They no longer try to take my nose off when I open the tubs. Given the opportunity, they will strike. In all three cases is seems to be a fear response.

In addition to these buttheads, I bred a couple that were bad eaters when I acquired them. So far no jerks or bad eaters in the offspring. The "queen of evil's" clutch has not hatched yet though. Those eggs are already receiving a lot of attention. When they pip, they will get even more. The first thing my babies see, smell and feel other then their own egg goo is me or in rare cases, my wife.

I have not really had any eating problems with my babies. It is becoming very rare that I feed live even for the first feed. I will only feed live to babies if I am in a hurry to get them out the door. Feeding live is easier though especially on the first go. About half of what I have produced will take a ft rat on the first go. The remaining will get a ft mouse and then are switched to rats. There are always a couple that seem to need an extra week or so to eat but they come around. Every one of the babies is handled for a short duration at least four times a week whether they are eating or not. The only time I have been tagged by one of my babies is at dinner time and that is because I am not really paying much attention and usually end up having rat stink on my hands.

You don't have to go very far to convince me, JodanOrNoDan, as I'm a very interactive snake-gal. I've no plans to breed any more snakes though. In the
past I never tried to interact with snakes hatching out, though they certainly saw me around. Even though snakes in nature (with perhaps a few exceptions
that we know of) get no parental attention, it still makes perfect sense to me that "first impressions" count. Snakes that survive have to learn their way around
& remember...it's only logical that they learn from whatever's in their environment, and just because no one can prove their brain structures are adequate for
doing so does not convince me otherwise...we just don't know it all yet. I've known many snakes over a lotta years, plenty with attitudes...there ARE ways to
communicate with snakes, to let them know they're safe with us. And since that reduces their stress, they live longer healthier lives & are better pets too.
Anyway, I look forward to reading about all your experiences & hope others will also keep an open mind. :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

You don't have to go very far to convince me, JodanOrNoDan, as I'm a very interactive snake-gal. I've no plans to breed any more snakes though. In the
past I never tried to interact with snakes hatching out, though they certainly saw me around. Even though snakes in nature (with perhaps a few exceptions
that we know of) get no parental attention, it still makes perfect sense to me that "first impressions" count. Snakes that survive have to learn their way around
& remember...it's only logical that they learn from whatever's in their environment, and just because no one can prove their brain structures are adequate for
doing so does not convince me otherwise...we just don't know it all yet. I've known many snakes over a lotta years, plenty with attitudes...there ARE ways to
communicate with snakes, to let them know they're safe with us. And since that reduces their stress, they live longer healthier lives & are better pets too.
Anyway, I look forward to reading about all your experiences & hope others will also keep an open mind. :gj:

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The reptile brain is very interesting. There appear to be those that are a little brighter than others, like my one girl who helps herself to rats, but honestly I am only trying to teach them a couple things.

1. No need to fear me.
2. I do not fear you.
3. I provide the food.

Once they learn these things, other problems tend to disappear. With those in my permanent collection it makes them super easy to deal with. For the ones being sold, especially to new owners, I believe I am making the life easier on the owner and the snake. A snake that eats easily and has a half decent demeanor is far more likely to be well taken care of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

This seems to be the prevailing wisdom. However, I am a "what if I tried this type person". I have purchased adults and sub adults that have issues. Three to be exact. One of them I got because she had an attitude problem and I wanted something to keep me on my toes. The most I have been able to do with those three is make them manageable. They no longer try to take my nose off when I open the tubs. Given the opportunity, they will strike. In all three cases is seems to be a fear response.

In addition to these buttheads, I bred a couple that were bad eaters when I acquired them. So far no jerks or bad eaters in the offspring. The "queen of evil's" clutch has not hatched yet though. Those eggs are already receiving a lot of attention. When they pip, they will get even more. The first thing my babies see, smell and feel other then their own egg goo is me or in rare cases, my wife.

I have not really had any eating problems with my babies. It is becoming very rare that I feed live even for the first feed. I will only feed live to babies if I am in a hurry to get them out the door. Feeding live is easier though especially on the first go. About half of what I have produced will take a ft rat on the first go. The remaining will get a ft mouse and then are switched to rats. There are always a couple that seem to need an extra week or so to eat but they come around. Every one of the babies is handled for a short duration at least four times a week whether they are eating or not. The only time I have been tagged by one of my babies is at dinner time and that is because I am not really paying much attention and usually end up having rat stink on my hands.

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So many of these 'tetchy' Royals SEEM to be housed in RUBS which apart from anything else .... are TOP opening so they're clearly approached from above !?

In all my years I've thankfully never encountered a 'feisty' Royal and all mine are kept in front opening vivs ??


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

So many of these 'tetchy' Royals SEEM to be housed in RUBS which apart from anything else .... are TOP opening so they're clearly approached from above !?

In all my years I've thankfully never encountered a 'feisty' Royal and all mine are kept in front opening vivs ??


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I've got a girl that I bet no matter how you go in, if your hand is in front of her it is going to come out with the snake attached. She was probably about 15 years old and she was kept in a front opening cage before I got her with the same attitude.

On the flip side of that, all of my animals somewhere over a hundred at this moment are kept in top opening cages. None, but these three bite. And nothing I have raised bites.

Conditioning matters. Doesn't matter what style cage. If the animal feels safe it is not going to strike unless u happen to be holding a rat. Even then, except for babies that get confused will differentiate between a hand and a rat.

Breeders need racks. Front opening cages are time consuming to clean and take up more space then racks. If someone has display animals then great, use whatever works. They do not work for me and I do not have issues.

Snakes along with almost every other kind of animal have issues with change. Take a look at craig's posts on the subject.

I am glad that you have never met a ball with a true attitude problem. They are rare, but they do exist and I have found that the older they are the less chance of fixing it you have. If you were on this side of the pond I would send you my demon child. I'm sure she would be well taken care of but I think she might change your mind about a couple things.

And BTW, thanks for the interaction, it has been a little too quiet around here lately.