F/T mouse fell apart

I thawed a mouse out, and it was falling apart as I tried to feed. The tail half broke off taking it out of the bag and then holding it behind the neck, fur and skin was shedding off. Any ideas what went wrong?

I had it in the fridge for about 24 hours and then in 2 baggies in hot water for about 2 hours.

Way too long in the water after being in the fridge.


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Originally Posted by Acedink

I thawed a mouse out, and it was falling apart as I tried to feed. The tail half broke off taking it out of the bag and then holding it behind the neck, fur and skin was shedding off. Any ideas what went wrong?

I had it in the fridge for about 24 hours and then in 2 baggies in hot water for about 2 hours.

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You can go freezer to luke warm water for several hours to defrost. Even room temp water will defrost a mouse. NEVER USE HOT WATER for more than a couple minutes to warm before eating. It cooks the mouse and it will fall apart and/or your snake will not eat it, and if it does, will not get proper nutrition. Snakes eat raw food. Defrost is ok, but cooked is not.

Additionally, where did you get your rodent(s) from. Poor quality rodents can fall apart, but usually, it's the method of defrosting. As long as the rodents were frozen when you got them, and stayed frozen, the rodent should never fall apart.

​Below is my method for properly defrosting F/T prey:

This is my step by step list on defrosting F/T rodents.

Others may do it differently and that's fine. This how I do it and it works for me.


STEPS FOR DEFROSTING F/T RODENTS/PREY

1. Put prey item(s) into appropriate size plastic bag (1 for each). I use Quart size ziplock bags up to a medium rat. NOTE: Bags are optional. Some people just throw the prey in the water. I like the bags, but you have to squeeze the air out of them.

2. Fill the container/storage box 3/4 of the way with room temp to slightly warm water. If you have a temp gun (which you should, so if you don't, get one), make sure the water is not hotter than 85-90F, or there about.

3. Put F/T prey item(s) in water. Cover (optional) and leave for an hour +/-.

4. After an hour, rotate/flip prey. If in plastic bags, they often will stay on whatever side you put them in on. So if mouse is on left side, turn to right side, etc.

5. Leave for another hour +/- for a TOTAL of about 2 hours (up to medium sized rat - longer if bigger prey for when ROE is bigger and eating Large rats, for example).

6. Check that prey is defrosted totally through. Squeeze at different sections of the preys body. Should be cool/room temp to touch, but be soft with no cold spots. If hard (except for bone), in abdomen, for example, or cold, put back in water until room temp and soft.

7. Take prey out of the container/storage box and put aside. THEN FOLLOW STEPS 8-11 OR STEP 12

8. Fill container with hot water from tap. If using temp gun, water temp should be 110-130F, not more.

9. Drop prey item into water for 30 seconds +/-. If multiple prey items, do one at a time. You want each item hot when you offer.

10. Remove (if hot water, with tongs).

11. Dry as best as you can, and is quickly as you can, with paper towels. I dry with paper towels while I am walking from the bathroom where I defrost to the snake tanks. I kind of wrap the prey item up in them. It's ten feet, so by the time I get to the tanks, the prey is drier, but still warm.

12. If not using hot water, use a hairdryer to heat rat so it entices snake

13. Open tank and offer ASAP.

Thanks!

I'll try again, and do it for less time. Having the darndest time switching to f/t.

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Originally Posted by Acedink

Thanks!

I'll try again, and do it for less time. Having the darndest time switching to f/t.

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You are welcome.

How old is the snake? What kind of snake? What has it been eating?

If not defrosted properly, it will lead to refusal often by even snakes that are used to F/T.

They look for live, raw, food. A F/T prey item on tongs can stimulate enough of what they are looking for most of the time in most snakes; smell, heat, and movement.

A cooked rodent may move, but it will not smell like a raw rodent. Instant turn off for a snake.

Honestly I don't know the age. I was new to this and never asked but he was on hoppers when I got him at the show.

It's a banana ball. The mouse almost exploded which should have been the first sign. Hes been eating live feeders. I try the f/t and if fails ( has every single time) I get a live one the next day.

He comes right out when he sees the f/t, smells it, and looks repulsed. He turns around and refuses it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Acedink

Honestly I don't know the age. I was new to this and never asked but he was on hoppers when I got him at the show.

It's a banana ball. The mouse almost exploded which should have been the first sign. Hes been eating live feeders. I try the f/t and if fails ( has every single time) I get a live one the next day.

He comes right out when he sees the f/t, smells it, and looks repulsed. He turns around and refuses it.

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How much does he weigh? How often are you offering?

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Originally Posted by Acedink

...He comes right out when he sees the f/t, smells it, and looks repulsed. He turns around and refuses it.

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Because it's spoiled! :puke: Be glad he refused it...If you thaw correctly, it shouldn't spoil as yours did. The way you did it would have gagged a maggot.

I thaw in cold water first...(-not laying in 'fridge...the fastest temperature change happens in water & a faster thaw means no spoilage). How long the
cold water takes depends on how many you're thawing & how big they are. An adult mouse will take about 30 minutes, a rat will take a lot longer.
(You can change the cold water if it gets too "icy", but don't use hot or warm water until they are thawed.)

Once it's thawed completely (feel thickest part of rodent to be sure the inside is thawed), then briefly immerse in warm (NOT HOT) water to warm it up.

Use a blow-dryer to make it extra warm if feeding a "fussy" snake (like most BPs). I just blot the water off on a paper towel & feed immediately, as I
don't have any BPs currently.

I don't know howuch he weighs, but he has gotten quite bigger since he started eating.

I feed him once a week. I try the f/t on sundays and if no go, I give a live one monday.

I will definitely use the water method and give that a shot.

Thanks all!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Acedink

I don't know howuch he weighs, but he has gotten quite bigger since he started eating.

I feed him once a week. I try the f/t on sundays and if no go, I give a live one monday.

I will definitely use the water method and give that a shot.

Thanks all!

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Try defrosting properly and warming properly. That should make a big difference.

If he's eating every week and has some weight on him, I would try F/T the right way, and then if he refuses, try again in 1 week. Then if he refuses again, you can offer a live mouse a few days later

You should not be offering food two days in a row. If he refuses once, that can also be due to stress.

If you could weigh him that would be very helpful.

If he's 200G, I wouldn't go more than 2 weeks, for example, without getting him to eat, if possible. However, at 350-400G, I would say try 3-4 weeks in a row with F/T until he takes it.

How often do you handle him? Do you leave him alone the day before and the day of feeding? BP's can be shy and often will not eat if feeling stressed for any reason.

Finally, what tank size, type, what temps, and what is humidity? Another reason a snake may not take F/T is not ideal conditions. You say you are new to this, so let's make sure everything is dialed in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Acedink

...I will definitely use the water method and give that a shot....

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And after you thaw in cold water, & then put in warm water, by "briefly" I mean just a couple minutes, literally.
For more warmth, use the blow-dryer & offer quickly, before it can cool off.

Yeah .. I let them thaw naturally in the snake room to get the snake juices going :)
Then a quick blast with a Hairdryer and offer instantly whilst still warm .


I stopped soaking in water when I noticed my two Albino Royals showed no interest in them - I presumed I'd been washing the smell away ...

It only really matters if they're dead fussy feeders I guess


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As far as soaking in water "washing the scent away", that can be true for some snakes and can be mitigated in one of two ways:

Put rodent in small zip lock baggy and get the air out before you thaw in water.
Use tweezers or tongs to pinch the nose of rodent (hard!) once it's thawed to help release scent & help the snake target the head.

While I don't dry-warm any rodents with a blow-dryer, I'm pretty sure that's going to release a lot more scent anyway.

Most snakes learn to accept rodents thawed in water just fine, but it can be a change from whatever they're used to. Many snakes even prefer rodents
thawed in water: desert & rescued snakes sure don't turn them down, and my TX longnose snake (a lizard feeder by design) has been eating "washed"
mice for 16 years now...he hesitates some on fresh-killed.

Yeah, I read somewhere that if the mouse/rat got wet, the smell was gone. So I've put them in a ziplock when I put in the water. And I think he's interested in them until he smells it (they've been rotted). But when I got him, and I was trying to figure everything out, he didn't eat for like 7 weeks (scared the crap out of me). Since he started eating 5-6 weeks ago, I haven't handled him except to clean tank.

I held him last night for the first time to watch some tv. Since he started eating, I didn't want to jinx anything. But I love this board because no matter what troubles I'm having, someone on here has either had them before, or knows how to cure it!

Thanks again.

Frozen rodents typically pick up moisture just from the freezing process, and for snakes not used to eating f/t, they may hesitate no matter how you
thaw, but with a little help, they'll figure it out. The main thing is not to let them spoil by incorrect thawing- our snakes have a keen sense of smell &
that's asking them to eat garbage. :O Having seen so many posts where ppl are thawing incorrectly and so many posts where "snakes refuse to eat
f/t", I can't help thinking there's a correlation.

Rarely, some frozen rodents have been handled improperly* even before you got them (*allowed to thaw, then refrozen with evident spoilage), so if
your snake refuses, use your own nose to see if it smells nasty....he's probably right.

I use water to thaw/warm my feeders and never had a problem with snakes refusing them. I do dry them off with a paper towel before offering them, maybe that helps with the scent.

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Originally Posted by dboeren

I use water to thaw/warm my feeders and never had a problem with snakes refusing them. I do dry them off with a paper towel before offering them, maybe that helps with the scent.

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I blot mine on paper towels too, after I pull them out of the water...they're damp, not really dry. I don't have any really picky snakes (no BPs) currently, so sometimes
they're fed fresh-killed too, and none of them care between fresh or f/t. I sure can't promise with a BP though, they seem to get "stuck" on "one thing" for meals?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Acedink

Yeah, I read somewhere that if the mouse/rat got wet, the smell was gone. So I've put them in a ziplock when I put in the water. And I think he's interested in them until he smells it (they've been rotted). But when I got him, and I was trying to figure everything out, he didn't eat for like 7 weeks (scared the crap out of me). Since he started eating 5-6 weeks ago, I haven't handled him except to clean tank.

I held him last night for the first time to watch some tv. Since he started eating, I didn't want to jinx anything. But I love this board because no matter what troubles I'm having, someone on here has either had them before, or knows how to cure it!

Thanks again.

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Good you are not handling much and good you now know how to defrost and warm prey properly.

However, would still be helpful for all involved to know your tank size, temps, humidity, hide situation, his weight, what exactly you are feeding, etc.

There's a chance that something else is off and that would contribute to him being reluctant to taking F/T. Generally, the quicker you can switch a young BP, the better. If you don't want him eating live, that information would be helpful to us to see if there are other reasons why he might refuse when you offer F/T.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Good you are not handling much and good you now know how to defrost and warm prey properly.

However, would still be helpful for all involved to know your tank size, temps, humidity, hide situation, his weight, what exactly you are feeding, etc.

There's a chance that something else is off and that would contribute to him being reluctant to taking F/T. Generally, the quicker you can switch a young BP, the better. If you don't want him eating live, that information would be helpful to us to see if there are other reasons why he might refuse when you offer F/T.

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Hes about 80-85 grams and in a 10 gallon screen top. Temps on hot side 90-94 and warm is 81-84. A hide on both sides. Frozen mice are from feeder source, at Repticon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Acedink

Hes about 80-85 grams and in a 10 gallon screen top. Temps on hot side 90-94 and warm is 81-84. A hide on both sides. Frozen mice are from feeder source, at Repticon.

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Hot side should be no more than 90F. Tops. Try to aim for 88-89F on the ground on the hot spot taken with a temp gun. Make sure you get a good temp reading from under the hide, it can warmer in there.

Ambient about 84F is fine, and 81F cool spot is fine. It's hard to regulate in a tank that small. It will be much easier when he grows and you put him in a bigger tank, preferably a proper enclosed tank like a Boaphile, or Animal Plastics, etc. Much easier to maintain heat and humidity in.

Also, I think we went over, but to be clear, your temps and heating elements are all regulated with a thermostat(s), correct? That's a must.

When are you offering food again? I imagine if you get the hot side temps dialed in better, and defrost the mouse properly, he will eat.

Keep us in the loop.