Dwaf vs BCI: Need Advice

Hello there.....

As some as you know, I'm looking for my 1st and only BOA (don't laugh). Initially I was only looking at male dwarfs, mostly due to size and I found my interests in the Hog Island locality. I contacted several breeders and was coming up short everywhere I looked. My interests then started shifting to male BCIs thinking maybe the difference in size wouldn't be too much of a stretch (I'm thinking a 4x2 pvc enclosure). Long story short, I started to communicate to a well respected breeder and I found some BCIs that I really liked (i.e. Super Ghost).

Now all of a sudden, I was contacted by a respected Hog Island breeder who has some babies for sale so I'm looking to the board for some advice.

The factors that are most important for me are the following:

Temperament: I want a BOA that's docile and that I can handle. I've heard that Central Americans can be a little nippier then Colombian Boas. Any truth to this and should this be a big factor in my decision? Are Columbians considered better pets in terms of handling, etc...???

Visual Appearance: I tend to gravitate to a more clean looking BOA and some of the Hog Islands that I've seen are very speckled (not a fan) while others have a cleaner look. Is this something that changes over time?

Size: I'm not looking to power feed so I'm assuming a male BCI won't exceed what I'm looking to get into (again I have a 4 x 2 enclosure).

Thanks!!!

First, BCI are found from northern and western Colombia through Mexico. So you are asking about locality differences, which are hard to characterize, especially as place of origin often gets lost after a snake passes through several owners between importer and final owner. And one owner may cross boas from different countries.

Temperament: There is enough range in temperament that you can get a nasty BCI from anywhere in the range. Most BCI are pretty good, though. The biggest factor is whether you start with a captive bred baby or a wild caught adult. The CB baby has by far the best temperament. And I figure that the worst temperaments are going to be selected out after a couple of generations of captive breeding.

Visual appearance: Boa constrictor babies tend to be rather dark and lighten a bit as they age. But speckling remains constant. Get pictures of the baby and parents before buying, if possible, so you can see if you like the looks.

Size: Male Colombians commonly get into the 7-8 feet length. Male Central Americans may get as big as Colombians or only get into the 5-6 foot range. But there is so much variation in genetics and feeding that size is impossible to guarantee. Best guide is the size of the parents.

A 4x2 cage is just adequate for an 8 foot 0 inch boa, IMO. But bigger is better.

4x2 is adequate for most male BCI I think but size can vary. Note that even if they DO outgrow it though, it will take a long time.

I was looking into the same thing recently and my conclusion was that a male captive bred BCI was the way to go. Readily available, not expensive, and better odds on a good attitude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ckuhn003

Hello there.....

As some as you know, I'm looking for my 1st and only BOA (don't laugh). Initially I was only looking at male dwarfs, mostly due to size and I found my interests in the Hog Island locality. I contacted several breeders and was coming up short everywhere I looked. My interests then started shifting to male BCIs thinking maybe the difference in size wouldn't be too much of a stretch (I'm thinking a 4x2 pvc enclosure). Long story short, I started to communicate to a well respected breeder and I found some BCIs that I really liked (i.e. Super Ghost).

Now all of a sudden, I was contacted by a respected Hog Island breeder who has some babies for sale so I'm looking to the board for some advice.

The factors that are most important for me are the following:

Temperament: I want a BOA that's docile and that I can handle. I've heard that Central Americans can be a little nippier then Colombian Boas. Any truth to this and should this be a big factor in my decision? Are Columbians considered better pets in terms of handling, etc...???

Visual Appearance: I tend to gravitate to a more clean looking BOA and some of the Hog Islands that I've seen are very speckled (not a fan) while others have a cleaner look. Is this something that changes over time?

Size: I'm not looking to power feed so I'm assuming a male BCI won't exceed what I'm looking to get into (again I have a 4 x 2 enclosure).

Thanks!!!

---

Ckuhn003,

I think most male BCI's will rarely see 6FT, if feed properly, meaning not overfed and slow grown.

A 4X2' should suffice for the life of a BCI male, and it will take 5-6 years for a BCI to reach adult size, so you have some time. Also, ask about the size of the parents. That plays a part as well.

BCC males may very well get 7FT+, but you are looking at BCI males, which is different. I do not think they are too many 7FT+ BCI males out there that were fed properly and grown slowly. 8FT, not likely. An 8FT female BCI is pretty big. Again, a 9-10FT female BCC is much more likely, along with a 7FT+ male.

BCI's are bred mostly for temperament and color/pattern/morph. I do not know many breeders that are out there trying to breed monsters, but you can ask.

Most BCI's, especially if handled from birth, although they are likely to have a strong food response, will be rather docile and more so with handling.

If you want to ensure a calm BCI, work with a breeder who knows each snake and can tell you who the calmest are, or at least who isn't nippy. Alternatively, if you get a juvenile instead of a baby, their "personality" will be more intact, and if calm and easy to handle, will probably stay that way, if not improve with regular handling with you.

Again, I would worry less about general species traits and more about the individual you are getting.

In a situation like this, working closely with a breeder is vital. Make sure you know what you are getting into.

I love BCI's because of the morph options and temperament and personality. I have nothing negative to say about dwarf species (and yes, and dwarf should be happy in a 4X2') but have limited experience.

Good luck and keep us in the loop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paulh

Temperament: There is enough range in temperament that you can get a nasty BCI from anywhere in the range. Most BCI are pretty good, though. The biggest factor is whether you start with a captive bred baby or a wild caught adult. The CB baby has by far the best temperament. And I figure that the worst temperaments are going to be selected out after a couple of generations of captive breeding.

Visual appearance: Boa constrictor babies tend to be rather dark and lighten a bit as they age. But speckling remains constant. Get pictures of the baby and parents before buying, if possible, so you can see if you like the looks.

---

Excellent information Paul….As you’ve stated, I’ve heard the same statements you made in regards to CBs having the best temperament which is very important to me. In my contacts w/ breeders, it’s one of the 1^st questions that I ask. In regards to visual appearance and size, I’ll start requesting info on the parents. For the Hog Island babies, they looked pretty clean but I believe the parents had some significant speckling which could be a sign of ‘things’ to come.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dakski

BCI's are bred mostly for temperament and color/pattern/morph. I do not know many breeders that are out there trying to breed monsters, but you can ask.

Most BCI's, especially if handled from birth, although they are likely to have a strong food response, will be rather docile and more so with handling.

If you want to ensure a calm BCI, work with a breeder who knows each snake and can tell you who the calmest are, or at least who isn't nippy. Alternatively, if you get a juvenile instead of a baby, their "personality" will be more intact, and if calm and easy to handle, will probably stay that way, if not improve with regular handling with you.

Again, I would worry less about general species traits and more about the individual you are getting.

In a situation like this, working closely with a breeder is vital. Make sure you know what you are getting into.

I love BCI's because of the morph options and temperament and personality. I have nothing negative to say about dwarf species (and yes, and dwarf should be happy in a 4X2') but have limited experience.

Good luck and keep us in the loop.

---

As always Daski, you are a blessing when it comes to well thought out responses and helping out others. I ‘think’ I know where I’m leaning on this but I just wanted others input because to me it’s a big choice that I’m going to have to live with for a LONG time ;) I’ll be sure to keep everyone in the loop J

I have 1.2 Tarahumaras, the smallest of the dwarf boas, as well as several BI morphs. The only real difference between them is that the Taras stayed defensive for a long period of time, where their larger cousins grew out of their baby nippiness fairly quickly. Otherwise care is the same, attitudes are the same feeding schedules are the same, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

I have 1.2 Tarahumaras, the smallest of the dwarf boas, as well as several BI morphs. The only real difference between them is that the Taras stayed defensive for a long period of time, where their larger cousins grew out of their baby nippiness fairly quickly. Otherwise care is the same, attitudes are the same feeding schedules are the same, etc.

---

Thanks BCR...I was hoping to hear from some owners like yourself who had both dwarfs and BCIs. If at all possible, I'd like to avoid the nippiness

I've been hissed at and struck at by my hogs and my normal Bi (BCi). Boa babies can be nippy but mostly for show and strikey a bit, almost all grow out of it. both my hog isle I can handle without issue, majority of my boas I can handle without issue, sometimes they have an off day, any species can. The more you work with them the calmer they will be, same for most species. A boa that is calm with the breeder might get defensive in a new enviroment and be strikey with you when it never struck at the breeder, or could be strikey with the breeder and then the calmest sweetheart and never an issue with you. /shrug. there's no magic formula for it.
Clean babies are clean adults, speckled babies are speckled adults. Wild types of both, esp hog isle are generally speckled, people breed for 'cleanness' (low speckles) because they like the look. One of my hogs is highly speckled (more like a wild type) and the other was bred for cleanliness. I think the speckled ones look more 'pure' but both of mine are multiple generation cbb pure, it's just part of their normal variation (same in any boa locality).
Boas are awesome, males are generally smaller. I think you'll be happy with whatever you choose. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

I've been hissed at and struck at by my hogs and my normal Bi (BCi). Boa babies can be nippy but mostly for show and strikey a bit, almost all grow out of it. both my hog isle I can handle without issue, majority of my boas I can handle without issue, sometimes they have an off day, any species can. The more you work with them the calmer they will be, same for most species. A boa that is calm with the breeder might get defensive in a new enviroment and be strikey with you when it never struck at the breeder, or could be strikey with the breeder and then the calmest sweetheart and never an issue with you. /shrug. there's no magic formula for it.
Clean babies are clean adults, speckled babies are speckled adults. Wild types of both, esp hog isle are generally speckled, people breed for 'cleanness' (low speckles) because they like the look. One of my hogs is highly speckled (more like a wild type) and the other was bred for cleanliness. I think the speckled ones look more 'pure' but both of mine are multiple generation cbb pure, it's just part of their normal variation (same in any boa locality).
Boas are awesome, males are generally smaller. I think you'll be happy with whatever you choose. :)

---

Awesome stuff April. So do you have 'favorite' in your BOA collection? The Hog's seemed a little bit more exciting to me after I realized how hard they were to obtain.

Almost any male boa, be it BCI or BCC has the potential to reach the same size as a female.
In captivity even more so if the snake isn’t exposed to the phermonal breeding cues given off by a female and simply raised as a pet.


My male, Barranquilla, Colombian is a 6.5 to 7 foot animal. I don’t feed him from late October until late March. (6 years old) He grows more when he is off feed as an adult. That span of fasting seems to be recognized by the experts as a period in which growth takes place. Vincent Russo, Gus Rentfro and Eugene Bassett speak of seasonal changes and a natural chain of events that lead to less feeding. Russo discusses in his book his observations when his animals are not eating. Energy usually used for digestion goes toward growth.

I have experienced the same.
I did not use the seasonal method until my boy was 2 years old.



A boa without locality data can be a mix of BCC and BCI. It may look BCI but end up larger because of some cross way back in its lineage. Don’t assume “common boa” is a guarantee of anything. It may stay small or have some substantial size genetics in it.



If you are looking for something in particular go with a breeder that specializes in what it is you seek.

There are dwarf animals. Research the island populations and read about their adaptations to the migratory habits of certain birds and other animals. They are smaller due to their environment, prey size and prey availability during the year.

Colombian boas can get very large but any huge boa is the exception not the rule. People can be 7 feet tall however most people are not.

I’m using a phone here and can’t go into much more detail.

This is a good site.
https://boa-constrictors.com/en/_home

A boa is an excellent choice, and if raised properly, you’ll have a long lived pet. Most end up very docile which is why they are often recommended as the perfect big snake.

Hey there Ckuhn... I would agree with most of what dakski stated, but I have to vote for the hog island boa's. If you research on this type of boa, you will read in lots of documentation that the hog island boa is one of the most docile boa found (thats not to say that BCI or other types of Boa's are not docile or have good temperment) but hogs are naturally calmer. And their dwarf size is nice too- being that males range from 4-5ft and females 5-5.5ft (6ft max) this is for a TRUE hog island boa's not a mixed type.

With that said, I have 2 female hypo hog island boa's which are sisters. Their parents are that of an hypo CA boa @ 4ft (Dad) and hog island boa @ 5ft (Mom). Both of their temperment was very laid back and never struck unless food was present and their coloring was simply gorgeous. My 2 girls are like handling a puppy...LOL and the only time I got struck was at feeding time and it was clearly my fault!! Both girls have the bright oranges, whites and salmon pink coloring and change from light to darker depending on their moods. There has been a little more of the black speckles seen as they grow, but it's not overkill. They both act different when being handled, the oldest sister is very curious when she is out and likes to move around for a bit then settles down nicely and usually chills on my chest. The younger sister is not at all curious when she is out and simply just chills in my arms. Regardless it's your decision at the end, but don't just dismiss the hog island boa from your list because you said you dislike the black speckles...Take in the big picture and do your research and I promise you will not be disappointed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jus1More

Hey there Ckuhn... I would agree with most of what dakski stated, but I have to vote for the hog island boa's. If you research on this type of boa, you will read in lots of documentation that the hog island boa is one of the most docile boa found (thats not to say that BCI or other types of Boa's are not docile or have good temperment) but hogs are naturally calmer. And their dwarf size is nice too- being that males range from 4-5ft and females 5-5.5ft (6ft max) this is for a TRUE hog island boa's not a mixed type.

With that said, I have 2 female hypo hog island boa's which are sisters. Their parents are that of an hypo CA boa @ 4ft (Dad) and hog island boa @ 5ft (Mom). Both of their temperment was very laid back and never struck unless food was present and their coloring was simply gorgeous. My 2 girls are like handling a puppy...LOL and the only time I got struck was at feeding time and it was clearly my fault!! Both girls have the bright oranges, whites and salmon pink coloring and change from light to darker depending on their moods. There has been a little more of the black speckles seen as they grow, but it's not overkill. They both act different when being handled, the oldest sister is very curious when she is out and likes to move around for a bit then settles down nicely and usually chills on my chest. The younger sister is not at all curious when she is out and simply just chills in my arms. Regardless it's your decision at the end, but don't just dismiss the hog island boa from your list because you said you dislike the black speckles...Take in the big picture and do your research and I promise you will not be disappointed.

---

Thanks Jus1More! I definitely have not dismissed the Hog Island but I will say I turned down some that were not visually appealing to 'me' because of too many speckles. I'm hoping that I'll get to see some this weekend at a show to see how truly beautiful they are.

Hi
As already said it really does depend on the individual snake not the locality,if there worked with from young they will be pretty chilled from a younger age but even if you get them later you can still turn them round,
When I first had my ca Hypo img who was a year old she hissed and struck the whole two hour drive back with her it took just over six months of regular tap training and patience and now she’s really nice and chilled
My Hypo nic was a few months old when I had her and was from a small breeder so was handled regular and although she loves her food is really nice, my corn island nics again had her around 1.5 years old and never been nipped by her but she thinks she’s being fed all the time do hook training was great most of the time I can get her out with just stroking her with my hand as her back ends normally hanging out her hide
I have Bcl and bci also ,I’ve had more bites from my female bci she was 4 when I had her but she’s quite unpredictable more than any of my other locality or Peruvian longtails
Hope this helps


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jus1More

Hey there Ckuhn... I would agree with most of what dakski stated, but I have to vote for the hog island boa's. If you research on this type of boa, you will read in lots of documentation that the hog island boa is one of the most docile boa found (thats not to say that BCI or other types of Boa's are not docile or have good temperment) but hogs are naturally calmer. And their dwarf size is nice too- being that males range from 4-5ft and females 5-5.5ft (6ft max) this is for a TRUE hog island boa's not a mixed type.

With that said, I have 2 female hypo hog island boa's which are sisters. Their parents are that of an hypo CA boa @ 4ft (Dad) and hog island boa @ 5ft (Mom). Both of their temperment was very laid back and never struck unless food was present and their coloring was simply gorgeous. My 2 girls are like handling a puppy...LOL and the only time I got struck was at feeding time and it was clearly my fault!! Both girls have the bright oranges, whites and salmon pink coloring and change from light to darker depending on their moods. There has been a little more of the black speckles seen as they grow, but it's not overkill. They both act different when being handled, the oldest sister is very curious when she is out and likes to move around for a bit then settles down nicely and usually chills on my chest. The younger sister is not at all curious when she is out and simply just chills in my arms. Regardless it's your decision at the end, but don't just dismiss the hog island boa from your list because you said you dislike the black speckles...Take in the big picture and do your research and I promise you will not be disappointed.

---

Just to be clear and avoid confusion, Hog Island boas are BCI.

They are beautiful and a great option. I have found they tend to be a it more defensive and less calm, but each snake is different. Most boas calm with age no matter the locale.

Just to throw another monkey wrench into your decision: BCL (longicauda) could be an option too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dboeren

Just to throw another monkey wrench into your decision: BCL (longicauda) could be an option too.

---

Yea, I think I'm good with keeping it to a Hog Island and a few other BCIs that I have my eye on. I'm considering visiting the Tri State Reptile Expo in West Virginia this weekend to visit with some breeders I've been in contact with. I know nothing about this show but I hope it's a good one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

Just to be clear and avoid confusion, Hog Island boas are BCI.

They are beautiful and a great option. I have found they tend to be a it more defensive and less calm, but each snake is different. Most boas calm with age no matter the locale.

---

Hey there Gio... Like you stated "each snake is different". I was just making the comment with the research I studied in regards to hogs and as well as my own experience with my 2 girls. I once had a sonoran het leopard boa and that thing was very defensive and wanted to rip off my hand every time I went to open the doors of its enclosure. Needless to say, it went back to the breeders and will forever have the nickname of Chain Saw Mary... :P