Impacted Urates - Holy Crap!

A couple nights ago I discovered that one of my Blood Pythons - "Dexter" had severely impacted urates that were poking out against the sides of his tail. So, last night one of my local breeder friends and I soaked/swam him in warm water while trying to massage the hardened urates out of him and after about an hour they finally started working their way out. I couldn't even believe the amount of crap that ended up coming out of that poor little guy's behind! Here is a photo:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...-up-urates.jpg

There was even more hardened urates, which dissolved in the water. Two terds, which were about the same size as the urates shown in the photo also came out, but they weren't hardened. This poor fella must feel sooo much better now!

Can any of you guys possibly tell by looking at the photo about how long these urates might have been being backed up? This snake hasn't taken a dump since clear back on 12/09/17 and as some of you might recall, I had started having regurgitation problems with him back on 12/05/17. I would say it's pretty obvious that all of this backed up urate must have been the cause of his regurgitation issues, wouldn't you guys? Can you guys tell me what causes urates to become impacted and how it can be prevented?

Just to give a little more history... This snake came into my possession on 5/10/17... Since then he has only defecated 4 times - On 9/14/17, 10/23/17, 12/09/17 (massive) and a tiny little bit on 12/26/17.

holy smokes! glad you guys 'worked' it out
I bet he feels so much better now

First off, I have no direct experience with bloods but I understand that "saving it up" is what they typically do. While it makes perfect sense to "connect"
the regurgitation to the constipation, I wouldn't want to assume that's the only possible cause. One thing you can do (assuming they take f/t prey) is to
thaw their prey in water & serve it wet to help with their hydration. A periodic soak wouldn't hurt either, & make sure their enclosure's humidity stays up.

And if bloods are like most creatures, being too sedentary contributes to this problem, so maybe a bigger cage would help? and more handling & "field trips"?

This was definitely far beyond what would be considered normal. If you notice the urate on the right side in the photo, it has a bend to it. That is what was poking out against the sides of his tail. My guess is that due to that bend it became lodged and he was unable to pass it, which then caused the the rest of the urates to get backed up. Bloods and Short Tails actually urinate A LOT on a pretty regular basis (a couple times per week at times), which he had not been doing. Judging by the size of these hardened urates and the amount of them and the fact that he hadn't defecated since December, I think it's pretty safe to say that these urates have been building up for many months. So, waste from months worth of feedings would keep accumulating due to his inability to defecate and he would swell up like a balloon. I feel like this must have been causing him a very difficult time digesting his food properly then in turn, causing him to regurgitate. Does that make sense?

Either way, I'm just sooo glad we were able to get all of that out of him! It obviously saved his life... I was prescribed Panacur for him (as a precautionary measure) at the vet back in January and I had decided against giving it to him at that time. He had stopped regurgitating clear up until about a month ago then he regurgitated again. I took him off of food again for another month, while treating his water with Nutribac. He has had 2 small meals since I started feeding him again a couple of weeks ago. I have been very concerned about how he hasn't been putting on weight or growing properly and how his spine continues to stick up more than it should no matter how much he eats or how fat (swollen up) he gets, so 2 nights ago I decided to go ahead and give him the Panacur as a precautionary and to be able to rule out parasites. That was when we discovered that he had impacted urates. So, anyway... He will get his third and final round of Panacur tonight and afterwards I am going to mix some Nutribac up with water and syringe a nice dose of Nutribac down his hatch to get some good healthy probiotics working in his gut and help replenish any gut flora he may have lost through all of this. I'm going to give him a couple more weeks off of food then start him back up on very small prey items and slowly work him back up to appropriate size meals. Hopefully this will be the end of his problems so he can get back to growing properly...

Yowsers!!! Dexter must feel so much better.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Yowsers!!! Dexter must feel so much better.

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He SURELY must! I was cringing every time another piece was working it's way out. That definitely could not have have felt very good coming out! He acted sooo calm, still and solemn once it was all out. I'll be happy once he has had his last panacur treatment and has gotten a nice dose of Nutribac tonight, so I can just leave him alone for a couple of weeks. It has been a big past 3 days for the poor little fella...

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

He SURELY must! I was cringing every time another piece was working it's way out. That definitely could not have have felt very good coming out! He acted sooo calm, still and solemn once it was all out. I'll be happy once he has had his last panacur treatment and has gotten a nice dose of Nutribac tonight, so I can just leave him alone for a couple of weeks. It has been a big past 3 days for the poor little fella...

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How was he during the soak and the whole process?

Eek! Hopefully he's ok after this. His first few poops he had with you seem ok. I only had an impaction issue with one of my bloods. She didn't go for at least 10 mos, and when it came out she proposed. I was able to fix her up at home, and she was always very "regular" after that. I don't know if she was as backed up as yours but she never regurged. All of my other bloods were very regular. How often does he soak? I agree that more frequently soaks (like in a bathtub so he can move) would be helpful.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

How was he during the soak and the whole process?

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He was squirmy and flighty, which i'm sure actually helped a lot. We kept sorta draping his back end over the side of the tub as we massaged and worked the urates out. Surprisingly, he never struck or tried to bite through all of it. He has always been such a sweet boy... :)

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Originally Posted by kristan

Eek! Hopefully he's ok after this. His first few poops he had with you seem ok. I only had an impaction issue with one of my bloods. She didn't go for at least 10 mos, and when it came out she proposed. I was able to fix her up at home, and she was always very "regular" after that. I don't know if she was as backed up as yours but she never regurged. All of my other bloods were very regular. How often does he soak? I agree that more frequently soaks (like in a bathtub so he can move) would be helpful.

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I'm guessing you must mean prolapsed? Dexter was definitely happy afterwards, but not quite happy enough to propose to me! lol But, seriously... Yeah, I was scared to death that was going to happen the way his innards were stretching outwards when the urates were coming out.

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

He was squirmy and flighty, which i'm sure actually helped a lot. We kept sorta draping his back end over the side of the tub as we massaged and worked the urates out. Surprisingly, he never struck or tried to bite through all of it. He has always been such a sweet boy... :)

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That's good. I knew he wouldn't "enjoy" it, but I wasn't sure if he fought you the whole way. I honestly believe when you've developed a level of trust with any animal they tend to know we're trying to help them in times of distress. But, of course, that's just a thought I have and there are always exceptions.

Hahaha, yes...prolapsed. I never know what my phone is going to edit next!
Luckily I was able to use prepH and some vet wrap to keep her vent closed long enough for it to heal. I was really nervous the next time she went, but it never happened again. That said, I've seen some completely outlandish turds come out of bloods that hadn't even been holding it...so sometimes they're just huge.

I really glad he didn't prolapse OR "propose" (:rofl:) & Craig, that's been my experience too- they typically sense we're trying to help & don't fight me either.

I had a "rescue" snake that had urate stones (like marbles) that I successfully helped remove, & the swimming motion a snake can do in bathtub of water
really does help, but I also used some KY jelly (lubricant) & there was nothing close to any prolapse, happily. Just an explosion of feces, lol...:O

Food for thought about this blood python, as far as what happens now or another option for future reference (and PLEASE, ask your vet about this first)-
A little backstory to explain: years back I took in a starving bearded dragon that owner threatened to just dump outside. He was unable to defecate due
to being thoroughly blocked up having eaten an improper diet in desperation (only fed large crickets- large back legs hard to digest, then he ate some of the
wood shavings he was kept on, having no other food offered). My vet had me dose him orally with mineral oil (which is an indigestible petroleum product that
promotes excretion of feces) and I added bathing the dragon in warmish water in my tub also: I was able to save him, he had massive dumps in water for 3
consecutive days, & thereafter ate healthy foods like crazy, made up for lost time growing (he was half-grown when I got him) & lived happily ever after...

So here's my thought: I've never used mineral oil on a snake before, but if it's safe & effective for a beardie, I should think the same would hold true for a
snake. While you really want to get to the bottom of his blockages, I wonder if this is something to consider using if it happens again?

my word...that snake must have been so uncomfortable!!! thank goodness you noticed and took action.

that photo speaks for itself...that's honestly impressive. glad that's no longer inside him!

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I really glad he didn't prolapse OR "propose" (:rofl:) & Craig, that's been my experience too- they typically sense we're trying to help & don't fight me either.

I had a "rescue" snake that had urate stones (like marbles) that I successfully helped remove, & the swimming motion a snake can do in bathtub of water
really does help, but I also used some KY jelly (lubricant) & there was nothing close to any prolapse, happily. Just an explosion of feces, lol...:O

Food for thought about this blood python, as far as what happens now or another option for future reference (and PLEASE, ask your vet about this first)-
A little backstory to explain: years back I took in a starving bearded dragon that owner threatened to just dump outside. He was unable to defecate due
to being thoroughly blocked up having eaten an improper diet in desperation (only fed large crickets- large back legs hard to digest, then he ate some of the
wood shavings he was kept on, having no other food offered). My vet had me dose him orally with mineral oil (which is an indigestible petroleum product that
promotes excretion of feces) and I added bathing the dragon in warmish water in my tub also: I was able to save him, he had massive dumps in water for 3
consecutive days, & thereafter ate healthy foods like crazy, made up for lost time growing (he was half-grown when I got him) & lived happily ever after...

So here's my thought: I've never used mineral oil on a snake before, but if it's safe & effective for a beardie, I should think the same would hold true for a
snake. While you really want to get to the bottom of his blockages, I wonder if this is something to consider using if it happens again?

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Yes... I have read that mineral oil is a natural laxative, which can be given to snakes. When syringed into a frozen/thawed rat it is referred to as "Ratlax"... I've also read that vets will often try to treat impacted snakes with an enema concoction of Milk Of Magnesia and mineral oil before electing to do surgery. We were just researching all of this last night, actually and happened upon a somewhat funny and ridiculous article about a guy in Canada being charge with animal cruelty for giving his impacted Blood Python an enema... lol

Here's a link:

http://www.vancourier.com/news/you-c...ema-1.23356945

My borneo girl was peeing, but getting more and more bloated on the back end not popping out urates or feces for quite a long time, which they do. I figured eventually a meal would push it all out, I've had young ones hold it almost a year before so wasn't overly concerned. But I decided a couple months ago that it was getting to a point of looking uncomfortable. Put her to soak in a tub for a few hours (3+ seems to be the magic number) and yowza, huge rock hard urates and so much poop. So much. I wish I had been thinking and weighed her before and after. Since then she's been holding in nothing it seems so idk.

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

My borneo girl was peeing, but getting more and more bloated on the back end not popping out urates or feces for quite a long time, which they do. I figured eventually a meal would push it all out, I've had young ones hold it almost a year before so wasn't overly concerned. But I decided a couple months ago that it was getting to a point of looking uncomfortable. Put her to soak in a tub for a few hours (3+ seems to be the magic number) and yowza, huge rock hard urates and so much poop. So much. I wish I had been thinking and weighed her before and after. Since then she's been holding in nothing it seems so idk.

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My understanding is that snakes are thought to absorb some water thru their skin, but also when they soak they're apt to drink some too. I think wild snakes
often do this naturally when it rains...that is, take the opportunity to soak & drink & expel wastes. A swimming motion while in water also works on most snakes.

It’s normally there’s no reason to work them out. They will come out on there own in time


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Poor snake. Happy everything came out ok. I know snakes typically don't move around much in captivity but in the wild they move around from time to time. Even swim and explore at night from time to time. I wonder if they need this exercise to keep things moving in the wild. Would he have gone swimming on his own to work things out? Does he move around some trying to get exercise and simply not have enough room? Not an expert but just asking simple questions that come to mind. I play with all my animals a few times a week. I wonder if this helps with healthy BM? Always looking to improve my husbandry to keep my animals and the biologist at heart in me makes me think about these things. If anyone has thought on this would like to hear them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

A couple nights ago I discovered that one of my Blood Pythons - "Dexter" had severely impacted urates that were poking out against the sides of his tail. So, last night one of my local breeder friends and I soaked/swam him in warm water while trying to massage the hardened urates out of him and after about an hour they finally started working their way out. I couldn't even believe the amount of crap that ended up coming out of that poor little guy's behind! Here is a photo:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...-up-urates.jpg

There was even more hardened urates, which dissolved in the water. Two terds, which were about the same size as the urates shown in the photo also came out, but they weren't hardened. This poor fella must feel sooo much better now!

Can any of you guys possibly tell by looking at the photo about how long these urates might have been being backed up? This snake hasn't taken a dump since clear back on 12/09/17 and as some of you might recall, I had started having regurgitation problems with him back on 12/05/17. I would say it's pretty obvious that all of this backed up urate must have been the cause of his regurgitation issues, wouldn't you guys? Can you guys tell me what causes urates to become impacted and how it can be prevented?

Just to give a little more history... This snake came into my possession on 5/10/17... Since then he has only defecated 4 times - On 9/14/17, 10/23/17, 12/09/17 (massive) and a tiny little bit on 12/26/17.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

That's good. I knew he wouldn't "enjoy" it, but I wasn't sure if he fought you the whole way. I honestly believe when you've developed a level of trust with any animal they tend to know we're trying to help them in times of distress. But, of course, that's just a thought I have and there are always exceptions.

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I think so as well. Monty with his rage with a toothache relaxed when I was opening his mouth to helped him. I expected an angry fight from him. It was like he knew I was trying to help him. Yes I know is reading to much into it. He has calmed back down. On the fence about returning him to his new owner. We both learned some that day. LOL.