So what where mom and dad?

This one should be easy guys...

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../5/1/18002.jpg

Quick guess.

Both parents have Mojave. At least one parent has the spider gene and pinstripe?

Don't super Mojave leucies have a grey headstamp? Is that a mystic potion in there? Or purple passion?

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Originally Posted by Sirus Uno

Don't super Mojave leucies have a grey headstamp? Is that a mystic potion in there? Or purple passion?

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You could be right. The pinstripe spider one doesn't show the Mojave gene. I missed that at first glance. I suck at the morph guessing game. LOL.

Second guess is Mystic potion bread to a spider pin?

Hint. These are fresh out of the egg last night, this will cause color to be slightly off.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Hint. These are fresh out of the egg last night, this will cause color to be slightly off.

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Am I close with the mystic potion X spider pin mojo?

PurplePassion x Jigsaw (or Passion Pin x Mojave)

Offspring pictured are a Passion, a PassionPin, two SuperMojave possible Pin, a Jigsaw, a PhantomPin, and a Phantom

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

Am I close with the mystic potion X spider pin mojo?

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You are close. Your eyes are playing tricks with you a bit. Daddy is my profile image.

I have no idea, but I'm going to guess anyway!!!

Mystic Potion x Mojave Pinstripe

I don't necessarily see spider in there.

Edit: Uh oh, new info. Will have to make a new guess.

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Originally Posted by asplundii

PurplePassion x Jigsaw (or Passion Pin x Mojave)

Offspring pictured are a Passion, a PassionPin, two SuperMojave possible Pin, a Jigsaw, a PhantomPin, and a Phantom

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Close enough. Got the Passion Pin. Good eye. A little hard to tell in this pick. Right now I am not thinking Phantom pin. I think they are both jigsaws. Any particular reason you say Phantom pin?

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

You are close. Your eyes are playing tricks with you a bit. Daddy is my profile image.

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I truly have no clue. The one on the right looks like a spider to me but might just be a jigsaw?

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Originally Posted by skydnay

I have no idea, but I'm going to guess anyway!!!

Mystic Potion x Mojave Pinstripe

I don't necessarily see spider in there.

Edit: Uh oh, new info. Will have to make a new guess.

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Purple Passion Pin x a very dark Mojave

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Purple Passion Pin x a very dark Mojave

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Was fun to try and learned a little.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Purple Passion Pin x a very dark Mojave

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Ohh!! I was closer than I thought! Very cool pairing; you've got some gorgeous babies!

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Originally Posted by skydnay

Ohh!! I was closer than I thought! Very cool pairing; you've got some gorgeous babies!

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Going to have a lot of white ones this year. This is the first of 5 clutches that will have different white snake versions. The guy I wholesale to asked for white snakes, he's going to get a few. LOL

:O Take all the pictures! I love white snakes, and in pursuit of a pairing I can used to produce some of my own. It'll take me a while to get there (next year at the earliest, likely), but it seems like such a fun venture!

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Originally Posted by skydnay

:O Take all the pictures! I love white snakes, and in pursuit of a pairing I can used to produce some of my own. It'll take me a while to get there (next year at the earliest, likely), but it seems like such a fun venture!

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The whitest combo is Lesser x Mojave. Outside of the BEL complex Ivories can be pretty white. So can white weddings.

White snakes are some of my favorites too! I am hoping to find an Ivory or super fire myself this year lol

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

The whitest combo is Lesser x Mojave. Outside of the BEL complex Ivories can be pretty white. So can white weddings.

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That's what I've been told! I have a super pastel lesser female, and pretends2bnormal suggested a male fire mojave could make some neat babies outside of the BEL combos. I'll make sure to update everyone when I get going with that~

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Good eye. A little hard to tell in this pic

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Meh... I cheated LOL. I did PhantomPin x EnchiMojave in 2016 so I was pretty familiar with what I was looking at

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Right now I am not thinking Phantom pin. I think they are both jigsaws. Any particular reason you say Phantom pin?

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PhantomPin is less disrupted/jagged in the pinstriping areas along the dorsal, minimal/no freckling in the dorsal, the laterals tend to be tighter together, the colour is about a half tone darker.


And I also have a hatchling PhantomPin sitting in a bin at home that looks spot on to yours

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

The whitest combo is Lesser x Mojave.

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Respectfully I disagree. The whitest combos I have seen are either all-white BlkELs or the all-white Pied combos. Every BluEL, even the whitest of them, develop a very light cream tone to them as they mature. Put a 1000g+ all-white BlkEL side by side with a white BluEL and you can see the difference (there is a YouTube video out there somewhere with a guy doing exactly this... Cannot recall who it was now though.)

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Originally Posted by asplundii

Respectfully I disagree. The whitest combos I have seen are either all-white BlkELs or the all-white Pied combos. Every BluEL, even the whitest of them, develop a very light cream tone to them as they mature. Put a 1000g+ all-white BlkEL side by side with a white BluEL and you can see the difference (there is a YouTube video out there somewhere with a guy doing exactly this... Cannot recall who it was now though.)

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Interesting! I'll have to look into that to see what you mean. I have heard that pied helps in whiteness, though since I already have lesser in my collection, I wanted to try for BluEL. I'm not super concerned about the snakes being whitest of whites, just as high white as I can get them. Def not going to be bummed as the cream shows up, though I have seen some flawless BluELs (maybe it's natural, ~maybe it's photoshop!~). But BlkEL is an interesting option. Super fire is a BlkEL, right? That would be a cool route if I got a mojave fire male.

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Originally Posted by asplundii

Respectfully I disagree. The whitest combos I have seen are either all-white BlkELs or the all-white Pied combos. Every BluEL, even the whitest of them, develop a very light cream tone to them as they mature. Put a 1000g+ all-white BlkEL side by side with a white BluEL and you can see the difference (there is a YouTube video out there somewhere with a guy doing exactly this... Cannot recall who it was now though.)

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LOL. You don't disagree. Whole comment was "The whitest combo is Lesser x Mojave. Outside of the BEL complex Ivories can be pretty white. So can white weddings."

Lesser x Mojave whitest BEL.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

LOL. You don't disagree. Whole comment was "The whitest combo is Lesser x Mojave. Outside of the BEL complex Ivories can be pretty white. So can white weddings."

Lesser x Mojave whitest BEL.

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Since I don't know, and am now curious, does a BlkEL not count as a BEL? If someone is using "BEL," is it to be assumed the eyes are blue? I know (or do I???) black eyed lucies and blue eyed lucies are different complexes, but I thought BEL was used interchangeably between the two.

I'm awful with morphs and trying to learn as much as I can. ;-;

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Originally Posted by asplundii

Meh... I cheated LOL. I did PhantomPin x EnchiMojave in 2016 so I was pretty familiar with what I was looking at




PhantomPin is less disrupted/jagged in the pinstriping areas along the dorsal, minimal/no freckling in the dorsal, the laterals tend to be tighter together, the colour is about a half tone darker.


And I also have a hatchling PhantomPin sitting in a bin at home that looks spot on to yours

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I agree about the dorsal, however all the phantom pins I have had do not have a dark line above the eye stripe. I have never had a jigsaw, however the ones I have seen all have a dark line above the eye stripe.

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Originally Posted by skydnay

Since I don't know, and am now curious, does a BlkEL not count as a BEL? If someone is using "BEL," is it to be assumed the eyes are blue? I know (or do I???) black eyed lucies and blue eyed lucies are different complexes, but I thought BEL was used interchangeably between the two.

I'm awful with morphs and trying to learn as much as I can. ;-;

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The whole BEL abbreviation thing confuses people and we should probably stop using it. This is why some people will use BlkEL when talking about black eyed snakes, but this isn't right either because Black Eyed white snakes can be made from 2 different complexes which are not interchangeable (yellowbelly and fire). Different pied combos can also result in a mostly white snake.

When I say BEL I am referring to the complex containing mojaves, phantoms etc. Blue eyed supers and als. I think from now I on will refer to it as the mojave bel complex.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

The whole BEL abbreviation thing confuses people and we should probably stop using it. This is why some people will use BlkEL when talking about black eyed snakes, but this isn't right either because Black Eyed white snakes can be made from 2 different complexes which are not interchangeable (yellowbelly and fire). Different pied combos can also result in a mostly white snake.

When I say BEL I am referring to the complex containing mojaves, phantoms etc. Blue eyed supers and als. I think from now I on will refer to it as the mojave bel complex.

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Oooooh, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for clearing that up! :) I was unaware that YB can also produce white snakes. Geez, I'm sure once you're exposed to all this information, you have a good idea of what's going on, but for now, I'm having a hard time keeping track of just the popular morphs. @_@

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Originally Posted by skydnay

Oooooh, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for clearing that up! :) I was unaware that YB can also produce white snakes. Geez, I'm sure once you're exposed to all this information, you have a good idea of what's going on, but for now, I'm having a hard time keeping track of just the popular morphs. @_@

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I have been obsessed with white BP's from the beginning. Especially the blue eyed ones, but I am working other combos including fire and yellowbelly. The only thing I have not started chasing is a white wedding.

My end goal are cherry bomb variations (REL, red eyed leucistic). White snake + albino.

3P's and REL's FTW!!!

great clutch. congrats!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I have been obsessed with white BP's from the beginning. Especially the blue eyed ones, but I am working other combos including fire and yellowbelly. The only thing I have not started chasing is a white wedding.

My end goal are cherry bomb variations (REL, red eyed leucistic). White snake + albino.

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There's a couple places I have seen complaints about White Weddings, so I don't blame you on that one. I adore the blue eyes! It's so pretty, and really cool to see in a snake. Even the pastel's signature green eyes are gorgeous.

Holy moly, that would be something!! You gotta let me know if you can get some of those. I'd be curious to see what you can do with them! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I have been obsessed with white BP's from the beginning. Especially the blue eyed ones, but I am working other combos including fire and yellowbelly. The only thing I have not started chasing is a white wedding.

My end goal are cherry bomb variations (REL, red eyed leucistic). White snake + albino.

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I was just talking with my wife about REL and how they are very uncommon and nobody really tries for them anymore.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

I was just talking with my wife about REL and how they are very uncommon and nobody really tries for them anymore.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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LOL. Lots of years and luck go into making a REL. I am actually going to hit with my lavenders first. My normal albinos are not cooperating. In two years I will be able to produce them at will. I am waiting on 3 females to be ready. I could have hit it this year, but my girl reabsorbed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

LOL. You don't disagree. Whole comment was "The whitest combo is Lesser x Mojave. Outside of the BEL complex Ivories can be pretty white. So can white weddings."

Lesser x Mojave whitest BEL.

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Ah... I read your post differently.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

The whitest combo is Lesser x Mojave.

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^^^
This, to me, was a complete and all inclusive statement - e.g., out of all the white combos possible, the whitest combo is Lesser x Mojave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I agree about the dorsal, however all the phantom pins I have had do not have a dark line above the eye stripe. I have never had a jigsaw, however the ones I have seen all have a dark line above the eye stripe.

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Never noticed the line before. I will check mine at home this evening and report back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

The whole BEL abbreviation thing confuses people and we should probably stop using it. This is why some people will use BlkEL when talking about black eyed snakes, but this isn't right either because Black Eyed white snakes can be made from 2 different complexes which are not interchangeable (yellowbelly and fire). Different pied combos can also result in a mostly white snake.

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I would note that the quality of the eye colour between BlkELs and Ivories is different so I am not sure it if fair to say you get the same phenotype from disparate complexes (and some might find it interesting to learn that neither are actually black). I use BluEL, BlkEL, Ivory, and Pied to describe the different white snakes. Blu and Blk are full complexes of animals while Ivory is a one-off within its complex and the white Pieds are all combos.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by asplundii

Ah... I read your post differently.

^^^
This, to me, was a complete and all inclusive statement - e.g., out of all the white combos possible, the whitest combo is Lesser x Mojave.




Never noticed the line before. I will check mine at home this evening and report back.




I would note that the quality of the eye colour between BlkELs and Ivories is different so I am not sure it if fair to say you get the same phenotype from disparate complexes (and some might find it interesting to learn that neither are actually black). I use BluEL, BlkEL, Ivory, and Pied to describe the different white snakes. Blu and Blk are full complexes of animals while Ivory is a one-off within its complex and the white Pieds are all combos.

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Yeah. We are saying the same stuff. You are just saying better.

Its interesting what you say about the black eyed snakes. I am going to compare my Super Fire to my Ivory tonight. They look super black to me, but I am going to hit them with some light tonight.

I think the whitest of the white may actually turn out to out to be a REL, but Ax is the only one I know of that has one. Maybe he can chime in and give some insight. It may not really count for this discussion though since we are going outside the complex to nail down the white.

Please let me know about the eye line.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I think the whitest of the white may actually turn out to out to be a REL, but Ax is the only one I know of that has one. Maybe he can chime in and give some insight. It may not really count for this discussion though since we are going outside the complex to nail down the white.

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RELs may end up being quite white as well, but I have a feeling that RELs from BluEL group may still end up with a hint of colour bleeding through.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

Please let me know about the eye line.

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Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing with the eye line - I am reading this to mean how the lighter gold eye-stripe is basically outlined in darker brown right along the top. Is that correct? If so, then I can report that the hatchling PhantomPin, hatchling PhantomPin combo, and my breeder female PhantomPin all have the dark line.

I would post pics but ever since Photobucket went stupid it has been too much of a hassle for me to find a now place to host pics so I can put them up. I can email you pics if you would like (hit me up via PM with your addy).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by asplundii

RELs may end up being quite white as well, but I have a feeling that RELs from BluEL group may still end up with a hint of colour bleeding through.




Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing with the eye line - I am reading this to mean how the lighter gold eye-stripe is basically outlined in darker brown right along the top. Is that correct? If so, then I can report that the hatchling PhantomPin, hatchling PhantomPin combo, and my breeder female PhantomPin all have the dark line.

I would post pics but ever since Photobucket went stupid it has been too much of a hassle for me to find a now place to host pics so I can put them up. I can email you pics if you would like (hit me up via PM with your addy).

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The phantom pin pictured here is the grandfather to the current clutch. Granted an adult, but almost no dark line above the yellow eye line. I have some known phantom pins pipping now. Should have some something to compare to of similar age. I should have kept more pictures of older clutches.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

The phantom pin pictured here is the grandfather to the current clutch. Granted an adult, but almost no dark line above the yellow eye line. I have some known phantom pins pipping now. Should have some something to compare to of similar age. I should have kept more pictures of older clutches.

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Yeah, the darker line on my breeder girl is faint but it is there. However it is very distinctly there on both of my hatchlings.

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Originally Posted by JodanOrNoDan

I should have kept more pictures of older clutches.

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Story of my life LOL