Would you get him (or her)?

Hey guys, so I'm in a bit of a moral conundrum right now. We were at our local big box pet store earlier today for some non-reptile supplies, and of course I go look at their snakes.

Immediately I see this poor little normal BP that has awful stuck shed. He managed to get his belly clear, but everything else was just like glue and he was very crispy looking. Eye caps stuck and the whole nine yards. Also looked pretty thin.

I had an employee let me take him out and I talked to her and the manager on duty about needing to increase his humidity. They keep BP's on aspen but other reptiles on Eco Earth/mulch. 🤷 The manager told me they have to keep them on aspen per corporate but that they'd soak him.

My heart wants to go back and take him home because he's so pathetic looking and was a really sweet snake despite probably being really uncomfortable. I know logically that is a stupid line of thinking because purchasing him would just support their bad practices and he'd be replaced by another snake that would also have the same problems due to poor husbandry.

But I can't help feeling like I could make a difference for this particular snake. What would you do?

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Been there, done that. I know & agree with all the reasons not to, and mostly I don't, but yes, I've made some exceptions & no regrets. You and only
you have to live with your heart.

I'd also raise heck with their management though...;) Ask for their "corporate" contact # and be sure to let them know how many people you discuss
and have influence with. Snakes cannot speak for themselves...only we can do that.

Honestly, I would buy it. I have a very soft kind heart and any animal in need I would try my hardest to help of I can. But it's not just the heart you have to rely on, you have to think logically too. Do you have room, can you afford another snake, the time it may take to look after it because if the poorly mistreatment it may already have had in life?? If you can honestly say yeah to all of these then go for it. I would. And probably a load of other people on this forum would agree with me.

I can't stand pet shops not looking after there pets when they are suppose to be some what experts in them. I understand not all pet shops are the same as in some may be more qualified but if you don't know what your doing then don't sell them or at leather someone with a hell of a lot more experience.

Anyway I can rant on for pages and pages, but it's your choice, if you do then your be a hero, not like the snake may realized that but you will and if you can't, then you shouldn't feel bad either especially if it's down to home circumstances.

Do what you think is best for you and the hiss and Sid. [emoji216]

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One more thing: if you do get him, take lots of before & after photos to document their crappy treatment, then shove it in their face, politely of course. ;)

As someone who works at one of those box pet stores.... that is not good husbandry. That snake should have been moved to a quiet room and taken care of. Sadly, policy does say ashen for snakes ad much as I wish I can change it.

Don't purchase as much as you want to. you can contact the corporate office regarding concerns for the animal's care. Ask if they will adopt the pet to you for proper care. This means you sign a waiver and do not have to pay for the pet. The worst is they say no but hopefully move to do right by the baby.

no matter how much it breaks your heart, giving them money in exchange for their less than desirable goods (a LIFE they have proven time and again they don't care about) only reinforces their terrible practices.

the answer is you need to take to twitter, fb etc. and raise hell, seriously. their image is important, and they won't keep quiet if you throw it in their faces for the world to see. then go to the manager and raise hell with them. there's quite a few examples on this forum of people finding big box snakes in deplorable conditions and actually getting some progress made and the snakes looking better.

you may be able to help that one snake, but your money will not help the next snake they can now place in the same deplorable conditions for some other bleeding heart to save.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

no matter how much it breaks your heart, giving them money in exchange for their less than desirable goods (a LIFE they have proven time and again they don't care about) only reinforces their terrible practices.

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This. By purchasing that snake you are rewarding the company for keeping it bad conditions. The only way to make them stop - and they have been doing this for years - is to stop purchasing those animals until they change how the animals are kept.

After more thought and consulting with my husband, who is opposed to adding another snake at this time, we will not be getting him, but I will be contacting corporate to express my concerns. Hopefully someone will give him a good home...

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

After more thought and consulting with my husband, who is opposed to adding another snake at this time, we will not be getting him, but I will be contacting corporate to express my concerns. Hopefully someone will give him a good home...

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It's sad but if they had a dog or cat in the same condition, animal control would be all over them and people would be protesting in front of the store.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

It's sad but if they had a dog or cat in the same condition, animal control would be all over them and people would be protesting in front of the store.

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I know :(

It just broke my heart to see this little snake, probably only a couple of months old, in that condition. I really should have taken photos.

They are offering a promotion on BP's where if you purchase a 40g setup, you'd get the snake for $10. A bit sketchy in my opinion, but we do need to keep upgrading our tanks, so I was considering getting a larger tank for one of our bigger BP's and using the freed up cage for the little guy for now...

Space, time, money, food, etc. isn't an issue. UGH. This is normally why I don't ask my husband about helping out animals and just do it.

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Originally Posted by midg8290

Honestly, I would buy it. I have a very soft kind heart and any animal in need I would try my hardest to help of I can. But it's not just the heart you have to rely on, you have to think logically too. Do you have room, can you afford another snake, the time it may take to look after it because if the poorly mistreatment it may already have had in life?? If you can honestly say yeah to all of these then go for it. I would. And probably a load of other people on this forum would agree with me.

I can't stand pet shops not looking after there pets when they are suppose to be some what experts in them. I understand not all pet shops are the same as in some may be more qualified but if you don't know what your doing then don't sell them or at leather someone with a hell of a lot more experience.

Anyway I can rant on for pages and pages, but it's your choice, if you do then your be a hero, not like the snake may realized that but you will and if you can't, then you shouldn't feel bad either especially if it's down to home circumstances.

Do what you think is best for you and the hiss and Sid. [emoji216]

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^ THIS ^

Providing you can afford the expense..


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if i was like Elon Musk i would just buy out PetCo, Petsmart, etc and shut down their animal sales.

what's that like $1bil? if i start a GoFundMe would y'all donate??

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

if i was like Elon Musk i would just buy out PetCo, Petsmart, etc and shut down their animal sales.

what's that like $1bil? if i start a GoFundMe would y'all donate??

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Petsmart estimated value ....$7 billion (privately held)

Petco estimated value ...$4.6 billion (purchssed in 2015 by CVC Capital Partners and the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board ).....talk about an odd investor into the world of pet supplies :rolleye2:

Apparently it pays to be in the pet supplies world, not so much the breeding world however. Elon Muskwould have to spend roughly half of his net worth to purchase both!

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Originally Posted by KevinK

Petsmart estimated value ....$7 billion (privately held)

Petco estimated value ...$4.6 billion (purchssed in 2015 by CVC Capital Partners and the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board ).....talk about an odd investor into the world of pet supplies :rolleye2:

Apparently it pays to be in the pet supplies world, not so much the breeding world however. Elon Muskwould have to spend roughly half of his net worth to purchase both!

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okay so a ~$20bil GoFundMe to buy out all big-box pet stores to shut down their animal sales business.

who's gona donate??

EDIT: not me that's insane LOL

This little snake was gnawing at my conscience, so I told my husband I was getting him, and I'm happy I did. The bottom line for me is that I helped this particular animal. And boy, did he need it. :(

I ended up getting a larger setup for Sunny and this little guy for ten bucks, so win-win. :) It took some Shed Ease, soaking, and several runs through a damp towel to get his shed off. It was worse than I thought, but I managed to get almost all of it off. Just a bit on the tip of his nose and under his chin left.

And he's so calm! Definitely an awesome temperament so far. Still need a name...

Below are some photos. The first 2 are before, but it might be hard to tell how bad he looked. The last 4 are after. He's currently exploring his new home. :)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b92dfc8a63.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b3a650590e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...be9e8e5b1e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4f6ca6f878.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c73ee8fdbc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9eb8f9ce1c.jpg

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Originally Posted by WhompingWillow

I know :(

It just broke my heart to see this little snake, probably only a couple of months old, in that condition. I really should have taken photos.

They are offering a promotion on BP's where if you purchase a 40g setup, you'd get the snake for $10. A bit sketchy in my opinion, but we do need to keep upgrading our tanks, so I was considering getting a larger tank for one of our bigger BP's and using the freed up cage for the little guy for now...

Space, time, money, food, etc. isn't an issue. UGH. This is normally why I don't ask my husband about helping out animals and just do it.

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It's tough. I hate even buying dog food from the big box stores. I got one of my rescue dogs, Banning, from an adoption event at one of those stores (when he was 9 months old and had been thrown out of car down south after being abused and neglected for months). He's awesome and I saved him from a kill shelter. He's been with me 10 years now. I am glad the chain stores do things like that, even if it's so they sell more supplies by letting ASPCA set up a tent in their parking lot.

I agree with a lot of what's been said here.

Buying = Reward $$$$$$$$ money for them. They will just replace that poor snake with another.

Another potentially big issue is that you have know idea what ailments/problems/illnesses that snake might have or spread to the rest of your collection.

Quarantine is a must regardless of who you get a snake from, but a situation like that is begging for air-tight quarantine and vet visits. You'll spend more in a month of either treating the poor animal, or ensuring you got lucky, then you can imagine. Might as well get your dream snake at that point.

I also wish breeders wouldn't sell to these stores. Not good.

Finally, you have to draw a line somewhere. You cannot save every animal out there. I wish I could adopt every neglected dog, but I have 5 dogs! Katie had 3 and I had 2 and we moved in together. It's so hard knowing there are so many animals that need homes, but you can only do what you can do.

Bottom line:

I am glad you chose to stay away. Not worth risking your current collection, not worth supporting the box store, and the risks are very high that you have issues and who knows what happens to the snake.

However, I understand the heartbreak and torment you feel. Good people who take good care of their animals (dog, cat, reptile, etc) want to be able to save them all. It's tough knowing we have limitations.

Literally posted the above and then saw you got him.


Okay, I am choosing to leave what I said above for others and I stand by it.

I am glad you are going to give the little guy a good home.

PLEASE quarantine like your life depends on it. His life and the lives of your other reptiles just might.

Let us know if you have any quarantine questions, or any other questions for that matter, and please keep us in the loop on the little guy.

Wishing you and him the best and that he has a wonderful life with you.

Such a good looking little classic wishing this little Hercules 😉 all the best😊👍 already you have him looking much better than when you found him.

well, we said our peace, you weighed your options, and now that noodle is going to have the best life they'll ever know. [emoji4] congrats on your new addition, tho i can't say i would have done the same.

they're already looking much better! but please please follow a strict QT; big box stores are known for their snakes having many nasty health issues.

again, congrats. [emoji3] that's a nice reduced pattern!

He looks (& I'm sure, FEELS!) SO much better already, OMG! Beautiful color, hope there's no issues that your TLC can't easily fix. :gj:

We can't win them all, sadly...but with heart, we can make a huge difference for some.

And those of you breeding snakes, PLEASE don't be part of the problem by breeding too many & selling cheaply to retailers that do this!

Well I followed the whole thing, and I’ll say this much. He’s quite the looker. Congratulations, and best of luck. The heart does was the heart wants. And it’s kinda hard to fault you, I can think of so many worse things done[emoji6]


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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

And those of you breeding snakes, PLEASE don't be part of the problem by breeding too many & selling cheaply to retailers that do this!

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I can't say it's the same for every particular store... But for the district that my box store is in... (And the same box this snake came from cause that sale promo also pissed me off.)

We are not allowed to take animals from local breeders that are just wanting to sell excess. People try to give us fish all the time and we turn them away. We cannot put them in our fish system. Small animals are the same. And abandoned animals are absolutely not allowed in the areas our animals are in.
Everything is automated by computer. We sell a snake, the breeder is updated and an invoice created for a new shipment. Our breeder is a corporate approved provider...And a very well known one at at that, which is why I was disappointed in some of the animals we have seen at my store...But that's a different can of worms.
The purchase price is also not as low as people think. A typical beardie runs my store 35$ in cost. And we are required to follow vet protocols. I just sent corporate off a vet bill for 300$ on a guinea pig and another 200$ on a hamster that needed emergency surgery.

I can tell you we try to do best by the critters in my store. If this store is lacking, the company needs to know.
This store did VERY poorly. The snake was in the same condition and still on the sales floor when you returned the next day?
I would still contact corporate with the info regarding this pets condition. This store needs to have a district manager aware of this.

Had it been blue, that's an okay to have on the floor. Most in my store shed out just fine. This snake should have been moved as soon as the dehydrated appearance and flakey shed started. A quiet room and a good soaking.

Well, I see you went to the dark side. Chalk up one point for the bad guys. They'll just fill that space with another animal that will suffer.

I can't say that I would have done the same, can't save them all. Nor would I help finance that mistreatment of animals.

But, since you made up your mind I truly wish you the best. Hopefully the animal isn't harboring any illnesses and the vet bills don't pile up.

One final word: QUARANTINE

Good luck with your new pet, he looks great since you "fixed him up".

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

I would still contact corporate with the info regarding this pets condition. This store needs to have a district manager aware of this.

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I posted on their FB page and PM'd the store info. Was told an inquiry was created. If I don't receive follow up in the next few days I'll make additional contact with corporate.

We went in the AM right when they opened yesterday for cat food and I brought the snake's condition to who I'm assuming was a shift lead/manager on duty, because it's who the first employee called for. When I decided to get the snake it was right before close and he was still in the tank. :( If they had at least soaked him at any point in between I would have felt better about his care, but at that point it seemed downright neglectful.

Such a tough situation. Saw a GTP in a petco the other day with no perch and 20% humidity. Was very hard not to scoop up the poor thing 😞

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Originally Posted by Team Slytherin

Such a tough situation. Saw a GTP in a petco the other day with no perch and 20% humidity. Was very hard not to scoop up the poor thing 😞

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I saw the same exact thing in my local Petco about a year ago. No perch, humidity below 30%. I tried to teach them, even showed them pics of GTPs, all on perches. They didn't care. The next tome I went in (about 3 weeks later) it wasn't there. I asked if it sold, only to be told it died a few days prior.

As someone who works for Petco as the animal manager I have always said I am available for questions. Just as there are 1000's of breeders there are 1000's of box stores. You CANNOT group every box store into a lump group. Are they on display more than breeders...yea. Are there bad breeders who don't know what the hell they are doing...yep! And we can put them on Eco earth if we wish. We have a first option and a second option. First being aspen second being Eco earth. I keep mine on aspen because 1. I keep them misted to keep proper humidity and 2. I clean ever week and it is easier to clean. If option 1 wasn't working option 2 it is. Also I train people to have proper husbandry as well.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

As someone who works for Petco as the animal manager I have always said I am available for questions. Just as there are 1000's of breeders there are 1000's of box stores. You CANNOT group every box store into a lump group. Are they on display more than breeders...yea. Are there bad breeders who don't know what the hell they are doing...yep! And we can put them on Eco earth if we wish. We have a first option and a second option. First being aspen second being Eco earth. I keep mine on aspen because 1. I keep them misted to keep proper humidity and 2. I clean ever week and it is easier to clean. If option 1 wasn't working option 2 it is. Also I train people to have proper husbandry as well.

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While I know others have mentioned Petco in this thread, this snake was not from Petco.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

As someone who works for Petco as the animal manager I have always said I am available for questions. Just as there are 1000's of breeders there are 1000's of box stores. You CANNOT group every box store into a lump group. Are they on display more than breeders...yea. Are there bad breeders who don't know what the hell they are doing...yep! And we can put them on Eco earth if we wish. We have a first option and a second option. First being aspen second being Eco earth. I keep mine on aspen because 1. I keep them misted to keep proper humidity and 2. I clean ever week and it is easier to clean. If option 1 wasn't working option 2 it is. Also I train people to have proper husbandry as well.

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Sunnieskys,

No hard feelings and nothing personal. I really respect that you are trying your hardest to properly care for the animals in your store and educate both staff and customers.

It just seems most of the big stores don't do that. It's not clear to me whether it's because corporate doesn't set proper initiatives and discipline properly for mistreatment, or there are too many employees, managers, etc. who don't care.

Either way, objectively, it seems like a problem.

Again, greatly appreciate your efforts.

Thank you.

David

- - - Updated - - -

WhompingWillow,

How's he doing?

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Originally Posted by dakski

WhompingWillow,

How's he doing?[/COLOR]

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He's doing great! He just took a F/T mouse, which makes me happy because he hadn't yet eaten at the store. He seems to have a pretty laid back demeanor so far, and I'm really happy I got him. :)