BP Unusually Small?

Hey all, I'm super new to the forums! I got my first BP off craigslist about a month ago. She is in great condition, super healthy little (assumed) gal! Her previous owner didn't specify whether she eats rats or mice, but the latter wouldn't surprise me, as she is only 264 grams and a little under 2 feet long. She eats frozen, apparently, but hasn't taken food from me yet. I'm trying her on rats, and thinking about getting her a live feeder because she hasn't responded to me heating, pre scenting, and braining the frozen weanlings. She shed for me not even a week ago, so that explains her earlier reluctance, but I tried to feed her today, and she showed some interest but still didn't eat.

I feed her in her enclosure, and when I tried today, she tried to coil around the rat on the fourth strike, only for one of her hides to get in the way. She just got agitated after that. Any tips for me to get her to eat? She was eating fine in her old home, with thin aspen bedding, low humidity, and unregulated temperatures. She's on a mix of coconut fiber and cypress mulch now (which she seems to adore! Shes burrowing now that she doesn't have a hide and dish that take up her whole enclosure!), with better temps and much better sized hides and water dish, and she's still not eating.

Also, I was told she is somewhere between one and a half and two, so her small size is a bit concerning. My only guess is either she's a much pickier eater than I was told, or kept on mice when she really should be on rats. Any help with getting her to eat, and any advice on how to get her up to a good size would be appreciated!

Here's a picture of her:
https://i.imgur.com/wlFdR01.jpg

And here's her enclosure:
https://i.imgur.com/Qw5jP9j.jpg

Congrats and Welcome!

Here are a couple of things that I try with problem feeder.
1) I feed live and I feed at night. Just before I go to bed I drop in the prey item and then 1st thing in the morning I check to see if the prey item is gone. If not I remove the item and try again in 3-5 days.
2) I don't interact (play/handle) the snake in question until it gets to a consistent feeding schedule. I only got into the tub to change the water when necessary.
3) I try to feed the same day of the week and same time. This will help to establish a more consistent feeding response. Once established you can adjust to what ever you like. But until then I feel it's what best for the animal.
4) Being 1/5 - 2 years old and being 256 grams is a concern but I think it's more about consistent feeding than anything and not the animal itself. She was probably feed to small of a meal and feed every 2 to 3 weeks, which would explain her size. Once on a consistent feeding schedule with the proper size prey item this will be corrected almost immediately.
5) if none of the above has any positive result I would consider covering the exposed glass on your tank. This would be the last thing I would do and only if all the other changes don't help. It's far down the list of options.

I don't think you have anything to be overly concerned about. She at least had an initial response so we need to build in that, If you have any other questions just let me know. I'd be happy to help anyway I can.


Pete

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Originally Posted by Damage, Inc.

1) I feed live and I feed at night. Just before I go to bed I drop in the prey item and then 1st thing in the morning I check to see if the prey item is gone. If not I remove the item and try again in 3-5 days.

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I'm not an expert, but isn't this dangerous? Especially with rats? I know I've read more than a few stories about live food being left in an enclosure overnight and the snake ends up dead. :(

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Originally Posted by Damage, Inc.

I feed live and I feed at night. Just before I go to bed I drop in the prey item and then 1st thing in the morning I check to see if the prey item is gone. If not I remove the item and try again in 3-5 days.

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Originally Posted by sufficio

I'm not an expert, but isn't this dangerous? Especially with rats? I know I've read more than a few stories about live food being left in an enclosure overnight and the snake ends up dead. :(

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that is extremely dangerous and, frankly, stupid.

Couple of things I see. Those stick on gauges....get them out NOW! Nothing sticky ever goes into cages. Plus those gauges are not accurate anyway.

Cover three sides of the cage leaving the front to see.

Those plants need to come down for more security for your beep.

No handling until your beep eats.

feed at night with the lights off. (NEVER leave a live animal overnight...that is well I'll be nice...it is dangerous to your beep).

How are you measuring your temps and do you have a thermoSTAT for your heat mat? Not a thermometer that's different.

humidity should be 60%

Yeah, I've heard that's pretty dangerous for the snake. She seems to spook herself after striking a few times and gets agitated if I'm dangling the prey near her for too long, I'd definitely have to heavily monitor her to make sure she doesn't just panic and hide. I'll try feeding live, though I'm worried about having to keep her on live, as she's just as likely to hide from the frozen as strike at it. Don't want to cause any unnecessary suffering to either her or the feeder.

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

Couple of things I see. Those stick on gauges....get them out NOW! Nothing sticky ever goes into cages. Plus those gauges are not accurate anyway.

Cover three sides of the cage leaving the front to see.

Those plants need to come down for more security for your beep.

No handling until your beep eats.

feed at night with the lights off. (NEVER leave a live animal overnight...that is well I'll be nice...it is dangerous to your beep).

How are you measuring your temps and do you have a thermoSTAT for your heat mat? Not a thermometer that's different.

humidity should be 60%

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Ah I've been meaning to go and get a thermostat as soon as I'm able to afford it! I purchased the velcro thermometer and humidity gauge without knowing how inaccurate they are, but at least I have some temporary way of gauging if the temperature or humidity is way out of whack. Also been thinking of a new heat mat, since this one came with her, and while it does work, feels like it might not be warm enough. I'm reluctant to get one that's too hot, though, because she does like to burrow and will lay right on the pad, which has been fine so far because it isn't super hot. Not like I can really discourage burrowing.

Also! I have been covering her enclosure more often, really only taking the blanket off for the picture and when I need to get in to change stuff around. I will admit, however, to being one of the new BP owners who couldn't keep their hands off the first couple weeks. I've handled her once or twice after her shed, only the second was for me, the first was quick to make sure she was all done shedding and it went smoothly. I'll hold off on handling her until she eats.

I use and would recommend a thermostat brand called Herpstat. Works wonderfully, high-quality, and very simple and easy to use. :)

Thermostats are very important and you need to get one ASAP. :snake::)

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Originally Posted by Heartley

Ah I've been meaning to go and get a thermostat as soon as I'm able to afford it! I purchased the velcro thermometer and humidity gauge without knowing how inaccurate they are, but at least I have some temporary way of gauging if the temperature or humidity is way out of whack. Also been thinking of a new heat mat, since this one came with her, and while it does work, feels like it might not be warm enough. I'm reluctant to get one that's too hot, though, because she does like to burrow and will lay right on the pad, which has been fine so far because it isn't super hot. Not like I can really discourage burrowing.

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Welcome to the forum! Just so you know, even if the heat mat doesn't feel that hot to you, it doesn't mean it isn't getting too hot. Our body temps are close to 100 degrees, but if the heat mat was at that temperature (unregulated they usually get way hotter than that) there is a real concern about the snake getting burns. Also, the effect the heat mat has on ambient temps is negligible, it is really for more localized belly heat. I strongly suggest getting a thermostat asap, and if you can't check the temp with a temp gun immediately, unplugging the heat mat until you can. Temp guns are like $15-20 on Amazon, and I'm sure you can find one at walmart or home depot. Either way, especially considering your beep doesn't have any food in its stomach its better that it would be a liitle colder than to potentially risk burns. Please keep us posted, definitely recommend that you read the caresheets and stickies and I hope your baby starts eating soon:):):)

PS-For feeding, if it was on mice maybe try mice for the first few feedings. After that, I found that you can throw some mouse or gerbil bedding in with the feeder, and shake it up to scent it.

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Originally Posted by Avsha531

PS-For feeding, if it was on mice maybe try mice for the first few feedings. After that, I found that you can throw some mouse or gerbil bedding in with the feeder, and shake it up to scent it.

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I've tried prescenting already, and though she shows immediate interest in the smell of the litter, she doesn't seem to be going after the feeder. I think the plan is gonna be to try a live rat in a little while to get her used to them, unless yall think it'd be wiser to try a frozen mouse and then try to switch her to rats after that? Ig even a small meal is still a meal, she's obviously hungry even though she's not eating. I'll have to wait until I can grab a feeder from a pet store out of town either way, all we have here by way of feeders is frozens from petco and petsmart, and nope, not going there. Purchased a mouse from petco a while ago in a pinch and it was real expensive and in pretty crap shape.

If she was eating mice before I would definitely suggest keeping with mice until feeding regularly. Have you tried using a hairdryer to warm it up?

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Originally Posted by Avsha531

If she was eating mice before I would definitely suggest keeping with mice until feeding regularly. Have you tried using a hairdryer to warm it up?

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Yup, I've warmed, prescented with gerbil litter, and brained and still no eating happening. Hopefully getting a mouse will work. Idk what size she was being fed, obviously not big enough. Should I go a little smaller than the weanling rats I've been offering? Could the size be part of the problem? The rats are just a little smaller around than she is.

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Originally Posted by sufficio

I'm not an expert, but isn't this dangerous? Especially with rats? I know I've read more than a few stories about live food being left in an enclosure overnight and the snake ends up dead. :(

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I definitely wouldnt do it i watched a small rat walk up and bite my caramel het hypo right in the back before i could stop it thankfully he didnt draw blood or disturb any scales but they are definitely capeable of much more.

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Originally Posted by Heartley

Yup, I've warmed, prescented with gerbil litter, and brained and still no eating happening. Hopefully getting a mouse will work. Idk what size she was being fed, obviously not big enough. Should I go a little smaller than the weanling rats I've been offering? Could the size be part of the problem? The rats are just a little smaller around than she is.

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Can you ask the person you got her from what she was eating? And if she is 264g she can very easily eat a large adult mouse, which is about the same size as a rat weanling. If that is what she was eating previously then it is definitely recommended to keep feeding the same thing they were eating before. Once she is eating regularly, then you can work on making the switch to rats

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Welp. Guess I figured out the problem. Apparently he was still feeding her hopper mice. Im gonna try some smaller mice and try to work her up to eating larger prey once she gets used to the size change. Then I guess I'll switch her to rats. Not too pleased with the guy who gave her to me, but hey, all I can do now is make sure she transitions to rats smoothly.

Glad you figured that out, hoppers are minuscule for a BP that age, they take down hoppers as tiny babies. Definitely would suggest adult mice in the 30-35g range for the next few feeding until she is settled in and eating well

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Update: finally got her to eat!!!! I offered her an adult mouse (from petco *shudders*) but at least she took it! Gonna go to a pet store out of town with a better frozen supplier this weekend. She still seemed fairly hungry, but I didn't want to push it, so I'll either feed again tomorrow or in a couple of days. Covered her enclosure all up with a dark blanket, made sure she had fresh water, and misted, put fresh sphagnum moss in her other hide just in case, and now the hope is that she'll keep it down and be willing to take another tomorrow. She got that thing down pretty dang fast! I'm gonna order a thermostat online asap, also. Thank you guys for the help!!!

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Originally Posted by Heartley

Update: finally got her to eat!!!! I offered her an adult mouse (from petco *shudders*) but at least she took it! Gonna go to a pet store out of town with a better frozen supplier this weekend. She still seemed fairly hungry, but I didn't want to push it, so I'll either feed again tomorrow or in a couple of days. Covered her enclosure all up with a dark blanket, made sure she had fresh water, and misted, put fresh sphagnum moss in her other hide just in case, and now the hope is that she'll keep it down and be willing to take another tomorrow. She got that thing down pretty dang fast! I'm gonna order a thermostat online asap, also. Thank you guys for the help!!!

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I would suggest waiting 5-7 days before the next meal, let her digest before offering again. You can also order frozen rodents online, I would suggest Big Cheese, Reptile Deli, or Layne Labs. All good websites with quality feeders.

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Originally Posted by Avsha531

I would suggest waiting 5-7 days before the next meal, let her digest before offering again. You can also order frozen rodents online, I would suggest Big Cheese, Reptile Deli, or Layne Labs. All good websites with quality feeders.

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Unfortunately I don't have space in my freezer to buy in bulk, and paying $90 shipping on a $12 or so order doesn't sound great. I know the rats I've bought from the pet store a few towns over are great, well kept, and not spendy. I've bought animals from there too, all healthy and happy! Would consider bulk feeders if I had a bigger freezer, lmao!

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

that is extremely dangerous and, frankly, stupid.

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If you don't agree with someone probably best not to insult them, especially if your don't know them or their experience.

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Originally Posted by Damage, Inc.

If you don't agree with someone probably best not to insult them, especially if your don't know them or their experience.

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Regardless of experience, feeding live prey any larger than a hopper, which at 264 grams this snake will be eating at least a small adult mouse, is extremely dangerous and irresponsible.
It's also extremely bad advice to offer to newcomers. If you're willing to roll the dice with your animals that's your call. But please don't advise new keepers to practice dangerous feeding techniques.
You'd probably feel pretty lousy if your advice was the reason OPs new snake ended up with a trip to the vet for mouse/rat bites.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Regardless of experience, feeding live prey any larger than a hopper, which at 264 grams this snake will be eating at least a small adult mouse, is extremely dangerous and irresponsible.
It's also extremely bad advice to offer to newcomers. If you're willing to roll the dice with your animals that's your call. But please don't advise new keepers to practice dangerous feeding techniques.
You'd probably feel pretty lousy if your advice was the reason OPs new snake ended up with a trip to the vet for mouse/rat bites.

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100% this. Snakes have been severely injured by unsupervised live feedings before, some leading to gruesome deaths, and I mean REALLY gruesome. If anyone doesn't believe me, google it but be warned the results are graphic.

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Originally Posted by Heartley

Welp. Guess I figured out the problem. Apparently he was still feeding her hopper mice. Im gonna try some smaller mice and try to work her up to eating larger prey once she gets used to the size change. Then I guess I'll switch her to rats. Not too pleased with the guy who gave her to me, but hey, all I can do now is make sure she transitions to rats smoothly.

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I keep (ONE) frozen mouse in my freezer at all times for any new arrivals that were on mice. I never feed that mouse, it is only there to rub it onto a thawed rat pup. You can rub the frozen mouse all around the rat pup without really thawing the frozen mouse then just put the mouse right back into the freezer. The snake's sense of smell is probably it's strongest sense of all so it don't take a lot of scenting to get them to pick it up. This has worked for me every time.

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Originally Posted by Damage, Inc.

If you don't agree with someone probably best not to insult them, especially if your don't know them or their experience.

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i didn't mean to insult you personally, as that really wasn't my intention, but unsupervised live feedings is a stupid practice, full stop.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Regardless of experience, feeding live prey any larger than a hopper, which at 264 grams this snake will be eating at least a small adult mouse, is extremely dangerous and irresponsible.
It's also extremely bad advice to offer to newcomers. If you're willing to roll the dice with your animals that's your call. But please don't advise new keepers to practice dangerous feeding techniques. You'd probably feel pretty lousy if your advice was the reason OPs new snake ended up with a trip to the vet for mouse/rat bites.

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bingo, this was the only reason i chimed in and made a point with my post. it's important for new keeps to understand the risks, and i made sure to use strong language to emphasize that.

i hope you understand, @Damage, Inc. have a good day. :)