Male Super Dwarf Retic or Male Suriname BCC

Not sure we here to post this but I’ve had my male BCI for six months and I want another snake.

I’m still in the early stages of researching both but I was wondering which one would you pick and why? Personality? Pros and cons? Is there something you had learned after getting the snake that you wish you knew before?

Thanks in advance!


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I have no experience with Retics (dwarf or otherwise) but I would think about whether you want to have another snake that's quite similar to what you have now, or something different.

In my case, I have a carpet python now and will be looking for a boa and a short-tailed python for diversity, but I'm also acknowledging that I'm giving up having a breeding project which I could have by owning a pair of the same species. Different species will mean a little more effort since they might need different temps or humidity but also more different personalities and behaviors.

Both are great choices. My personal observation from my animals past and present.

Retic / BCC

12-20 feet/ 6-9 feet
very active/ Can be active but more laid back
Eats large and almost any correctly sized mammal (Rabbits and small pigs when grown but males smaller) / Eats jumbo rats at most.
Both are beautiful.
Both bring unique personalities.

I am partial to retics though.

Keep in mind this is my personal experience.

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Originally Posted by svtvenom

Not sure we here to post this but I’ve had my male BCI for six months and I want another snake.

I’m still in the early stages of researching both but I was wondering which one would you pick and why? Personality? Pros and cons? Is there something you had learned after getting the snake that you wish you knew before?

Thanks in advance!


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It really boils down to what kind of snake you want. I have a bci and a male SD. My wife likes slower less active snakes so she has balls and the bci. I like more active and inquisitive snakes so I have corns and retics. My carpet seems like a nice mix of the two styles.

Both the SD retic and Suri BCC will top out at about the same size, but the retic will get there a few years sooner.

While retics are fun and highly intelligent snakes, they are also a lot more work to keep. They eat more often and have faster metabolisms, which means they make messes more often.

Cant go wrong with either but my vote would have to be towards a BCC. I have always been a boa guy though so my vote might be a bit skewed lol. And pretty much what BCR said, sums it up.

I do enjoy how my boa now usually just chills with me and does for hours. So a retic wouldn’t sit with me? He would be just always on the move or trying to get away? Are retics pretty friendly like a boas?


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The only time my retics are chill is when they are in shed.

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Originally Posted by svtvenom

I do enjoy how my boa now usually just chills with me and does for hours. So a retic wouldn’t sit with me? He would be just always on the move or trying to get away? Are retics pretty friendly like a boas?


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If mine is out of his enclosure the only time he sits still for more than a minute is if he is going to poo. He'll spend 5 minutes trying to get somewhere or climb something, once he has accomplished his goal he will rest for a minute then be off again exploring.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I think I’m probably leaning towards a BBC or maybe just another BCI. I really wanted a purple albino SD, they’re so beautiful. But I think I’d be happier with a boa.


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If you are looking for more of a lap snake, might look into a dumerils. They are the king of loungers. A retic is not going to be a lounger snake. They are always on the move.

But again, if between the 2 choices of retic or boa, a boa is going to be much more laid back for the most part, require less upkeep as retics always poop, pee and eat, and be cheaper overall to keep. Plus they grow a lot slower so you will be able to have a 'baby' for a much longer time. Although even boas can get excited. I had Gina out today and she was just nonstop go. She kept exploring everything and was being grabby, trying to grab the keyboard and computer tower while i was doing stuff on the computer lol.

A purple SD is not necessarily going to stay small; purple albino is a mainland gene. A high percentage SD purple is going to be very expensive.

That’s good to know. Honestly I think I would be annoyed if I was just constantly try to hold him back. My boa is so relaxed when I hold him he’s only active once in awhile and I do like how boas are so muscular [emoji7]. Thank you for sharing your personal experiences. The comment about how they only sit still to poop and if they are in shed (which I wouldn’t hold him anyways) kinda decided it for me lol. I would only want a purple albino if I were to even get a retic, so I guess it’s a no lol.


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My vote has to go to the SD Retic... One of my SDs is a Lavender Albino Motley, actually. So, I can totally understand your attraction to them! Of all the snakes and species i'm currently working with, if I had to choose only one snake to keep it would be that guy hands down! I'm absolutely crazy about him! Both of my Retics are only 25% SD (Kalatoa) and only one year old, but so far, they are remaining much smaller than the vast majority of 50%, 75% and even pure SDs of the same age that I have seen. I think that is mostly attributed to smaller prey sizes and moderate feeding schedules, as well as smaller parent sizes. That is a whole other subject, but higher percentage SD bloodlines definitely do not automatically guarantee smaller size animals. All of that aside, I love Boas, too and they are a very close second, but my vote goes to SD, because of their intelligent, inquisitive nature, joy of handling and unmatched beauty with regards to lush colors and markings, which only continue to get even more vibrant with age. Most other species (Boas included) darken and fade with age. There isn't a huge difference in handling Boas and Retics. They are both very active and somewhat flighty when being held, but they can both be pretty chill at times as well. That depends entirely on the individual animals, though. My female SD Retic is much more flighty than my male most of the time. Care-wise, it's a horse a piece for me...

If you decide to go with an SD Retic, just be sure to ask the breeder a lot of questions about the animal's SD percentages and parent sizes and definitely keep him on smaller prey sizes and a moderate feeding schedule or you will likely end up with a monster regardless of his SD percentages...

PS The SD's locale should also be a huge consideration for you if you decide to go that route. SDs, which derive from Kalatoa bloodlines generally seem to be the smallest...

Well, if you are looking for a SD, make sure the mother is is the SD or the highest percentage. SD mom will make smaller babies. SD dad can produce large babies.

As for feeding, i know a lot of people say it makes a big difference but from my experience with Caesar, it made little difference. I fed Caesar heavily as a baby and at just over 2 years old now, he is 7-8 feet. By comparison, Gio fed Wallace very conservatively and he is about the same age as Caesar and is maybe a foot shorter i think. And Wallace is higher percentage dwarf and lower percentage mainland than Caesar too.

Bottomline is ask the parents size and who is the SD like i said above.

And like mentioned, a high percentage SD purple is not going to be cheap. Caesar being a white tiger 50% het snow(anery) was over $700 but i got him on a deal for considerably cheaper from Kris at Vital Exotics.

What do you want?

Activity and some busy interaction, or a calm, more controlled experience that still includes activity?


Here is a male BCI that is 6 years old and about 7 feet.

https://i.imgur.com/wpgUetd.jpg

Easy to handle, pretty mellow and very dense.

https://i.imgur.com/53NhQUS.jpg

Good picture in true outdoor lighting.
https://i.imgur.com/Pv3O6lS.jpg


This is a SD X Dwarf X Mainland, male retic. Only 18% mainland 30+% SD and 40+ Dwarf. He's 2 years old and closing in on 8 feet.

https://i.imgur.com/tz0jE4m.jpg

Both snakes are beautiful animals.

https://i.imgur.com/lP2zx3K.jpg

I honestly have to have both species.
https://i.imgur.com/36XkjPh.jpg


Boas are VERY impressive, easier to handle and sit with. My retic isn't overly food driven due to the high amount of SD and Dwarf and doesn't eliminate excessive amounts of waste.

I own 3 pythons, and one boa, which makes it hard to believe I'm a "boa guy".

I love my retic, boa and carpet, even the little royal, but if I were to add another, it would be a BC or carpet.

Still, retics are really neat!

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Cant go wrong with either but my vote would have to be towards a BCC. I have always been a boa guy though so my vote might be a bit skewed lol. And pretty much what BCR said, sums it up.

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I think Pat and Ceaser disagree with this statement such spoiled little princes they are ;)

I don't know if you've considered it, but another option for a "lap snake" would be a short tailed python (Blood, Borneo, Sumatran).

Bloods also get better looking as they age because the red intensifies over time.

Just curious how much could I expect to pay for a purple albino that stays smaller?


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I was going through the same debate with myself that you are. I decided to go with a SD retic myself, completely opposite of a ball python. Which is what I wanted, something that tolerated the handling more, alot more active and a killer feed response. I picked up this 75% kalatoa 12.5% jampea today and she has already taken her first meal with me tonight no problem at all(was her scheduled day to eat and was told I could offer tonight). So far I'm happy as can be with her.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...29145bdf4f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f386d5c3b2.jpg

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Late to the party here, but I vote Boa.

Much easier to handle when at size and that size is usually a little smaller than even a dwarf retic.

How big is your little BCI now? Have you held a large/adult female BCI or BCC? Have you handled a retic?

I know you had a lot of questions early on about your little BCI and, in my opinion, BCI's are much easier to house, keep healthy, and handle. You were also looking at upgrading to a better enclosure, but that takes time, funds, and space. Did you solve those issues and have room for another large tank?

I've been keeping snakes/reptiles for the better part of my life and just recently, at 37 (now 38), got my first BCI. I have the time, space, finances, and skill level where I feel I can easily provide for Behira (my BCI). It wasn't until two weeks ago at the NH reptile expo that I held and adult female BCI (7FT and 16 pounds). I was shocked how easy a full grown BCI was to control and handle. However, I had been worried up to them how Behira might be at 20 pounds versus 2 pounds that she is now. Seems like she will just be a gentle giant like the girl I held at the show.

I am not telling you what to do, but I am encouraging you, as I get the sense that you are relatively new to the game, to take your time and make wise and informed decisions. Many experienced snake keepers never get a retic, dwarf or otherwise, and in many states it's illegal anyway (mine - CT). They are a handful, even compared to an adult Boa.

Also, keep in mind that a healthy Boa that's fed properly will live 20-30 years. Not sure about retics, but I believe they are long-term commitments too.

Make sure you are making a decision and that you can care for the animal (animals) for their lifetime.

I want the best for you and your current and soon to be growing collection. Sorry if I sound preachy, but I've had to learn my limitations (in my case health issues and time that I can spend with the animals I have limits me to what I have now), and as difficult as it can be when what you want doesn't align with what you are able to do, it's best for everyone to be realistic.

I hope I am misreading the situation and please forgive me if I am, but please do what's best for all involved; both you and the growing reptile collection.

In any event, if you are getting another snake, I vote Boa all the way, and suggest a cool BCI morph, or as you are looking for, a beautiful locale BCC (keeping in mind that they need to be grown slower, are a little more sensitive to environment than BCI's, and that ultimately, they get bigger).

Good luck and keep us in the loop.

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Originally Posted by svtvenom

Just curious how much could I expect to pay for a purple albino that stays smaller?


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Well you want a high percentage SD blood animal and you want that high percentage to be from mom, not dad. That will increase your chances but again, it boils down to what said snake takes as the genetics when it grows up. Just like some people are tall and some are short. Also certain genes are from mainland and can influence the size like tiger gene which is from mainland.

So bottom line, for something to stay under 10 feet, get a male from a high percentage SD mom. And just a guess but you can probably expect to pay around $1000 for something like a 75% SD purple albino. Just a guess but seems pretty safe. Caesar who is 37.5% SD, 31.5% dwarf white albino tiger 50% het snow(anery) was $750 but i got him on a deal from Kris Brown at Vital Exotics.

If you want a retic, get one.

They are awesome and can take the place of two separate species if you are looking for something active and that displays well.

There are male mainlands that don't go over 10 feet.

It's a crapshoot with the mainlands, but get into some high % SD and Dwarf and you should be plenty safe form a giant.

It sounds like you truly want to go the SD route. If so go for it as I went Boa, Carpet and still wanted the retic. Once the curiosity and urge hits, you just have to do it or you will always want what you didn't get.

Any other snake you buy afterwards will be a walk in the park.

I love this snake.

https://i.imgur.com/c4KtPpc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/l9oCIt0.jpg

They do pretty much anything when it comes to semi arboreal and terrestrial behavior.

https://i.imgur.com/5HYrOYQ.jpg


I can tell you want the retic!! Just do it!
https://i.imgur.com/FJWTJW0.jpg

Another consideration. My retics require a permit to have them. I live in Texas. Is only $20 a year. Know your state laws.

By the way I am partial to the tiger gene in retics. Yes I am bias but look at them.

I agree. I did want a retic in the beginning. Took a while and lots of research before I jumped on one. I went with a mainland female. The size was not as important to me as temperament. Don't get me wrong. Some females can be defensive. I purchased one that was already 2 years old and the breeder could answer a lot of questions. Rainbow has been a wonderful experience all the way around. Even saying that, you always have to stay on your toes. Keeping her awake during handling secessions is important (don't want to surprise her) as well as respecting her feelings on the days she wants to be left alone. I would not say she is trained but that we have an understanding (for the most part) of what is going to happen during handling cessions.

I had a young male retic for a little while. He had to be 6 months? Not sure. He was a lot less predictable than my larger girl. I could offer him a hook and then take him out. Never bit during handling cessions but was cage defensive. As soon as I put him back in his cage he would randomly strike the glass door. Not sure if was food response or defensiveness.

Retics are almost always hungry. Food food and more food. You have to regulate them. Boas have much slower metabolisms.

I had a RTB that was 5 foot plus and she was super laid back. Could sit and watch TV with her in your lap. Supper chill. Would not even strike her pre-killed rat.

They both were very different and rewarding experiences.

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Originally Posted by Gio

If you want a retic, get one.

They are awesome and can take the place of two separate species if you are looking for something active and that displays well.

There are male mainlands that don't go over 10 feet.

It's a crapshoot with the mainlands, but get into some high % SD and Dwarf and you should be plenty safe form a giant.

It sounds like you truly want to go the SD route. If so go for it as I went Boa, Carpet and still wanted the retic. Once the curiosity and urge hits, you just have to do it or you will always want what you didn't get.

Any other snake you buy afterwards will be a walk in the park.

I love this snake.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/c4KtPpc.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/l9oCIt0.jpg

They do pretty much anything when it comes to semi arboreal and terrestrial behavior.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/5HYrOYQ.jpg


I can tell you want the retic!! Just do it!
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/FJWTJW0.jpg

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The BCI I have is in his new AP T10 so his husbandry is great now.

I looked it up and retics are legal to own where I live. I do remember a vendor at the last reptile expo I went to and the retics they were holding were so hyper lol. Maybe at next expo I’ll ask to hold one. I wouldn’t mind paying 1k for a snake. I guess I’ll just have to think more about which one I’ll go with but I do appreciate everyone sharing their experiences.


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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Well you want a high percentage SD blood animal and you want that high percentage to be from mom, not dad.

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where did you hear this?
because it really shouldn't matter which parent is the SD, it's the % of SD that matters.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

where did you hear this?
because it really shouldn't matter which parent is the SD, it's the % of SD that matters.

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A lot of breeders have mentioned it like Garrett whatever his name is as well as a few off the retic FB boards. I too wouldnt think it would really matter but like i said, more than a couple breeders have said that.

And i agree the percent should be it but take for example Gene, Phyllis, Wallace and Caesar. Phyllis who is 100% Kalatoa is a lot bigger than any of our hybrids. Caesar is 37.5% SD, 31.5% dwarf and was heavily fed yet he is not much bigger than Wallace who is same percent SD but even higher percent dwarf. Then there is gene who is zero SD i believe is just dwarf and he is about the same size as Caesar.

I personally question pretty much anything anyone says about SD hybrids as i hear a lot of theory craft about it but then i see real world evidence which says otherwise lol.

My mistake, Gene is 25% SD 25% dwarf. So we have Gene at about the same size as Caesar who is 37.5% SD 31.5% dwarf. Then we got Wallace who is i believe 37.5% SD and 43% dwarf who is slightly smaller than Caesar and Gene. Then we got Gerald who is 50% SD and around 6 feet i think. And then we got Phyllis who is just a monster. Pure Kalatoa and like 10 feet.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

where did you hear this?
because it really shouldn't matter which parent is the SD, it's the % of SD that matters.

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Here is a video from Garret Hartle where he explains the mainland X SD vs. SD X mainland and percentage sizes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjs6v3CDIjc

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

My mistake, Gene is 25% SD 25% dwarf. So we have Gene at about the same size as Caesar who is 37.5% SD 31.5% dwarf. Then we got Wallace who is i believe 37.5% SD and 43% dwarf who is slightly smaller than Caesar and Gene. Then we got Gerald who is 50% SD and around 6 feet i think. And then we got Phyllis who is just a monster. Pure Kalatoa and like 10 feet.

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Gerald is 8’ now, but very lean. Haven’t weighed in a while but I think he’s still under 10lbs


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Gerald is 8’ now, but very lean. Haven’t weighed in a while but I think he’s still under 10lbs


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Wow, he's possible bigger than Caesar then lol. From watching Caesar in his cage, I would guess he would be 8 foot tops but he looks more between 7-8. And Gerald is 50% SD. This is why i question all the people who try and give concrete sizes for SD crosses. Between all our snakes, we have such a big variance in percentages, yet all our snakes are close in size with the exception of Phyllis who should technically be the smallest of the lot yet she is a monster lol.

Caesar has a lot more girth it sounds like but not the length.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Wow, he's possible bigger than Caesar then lol. From watching Caesar in his cage, I would guess he would be 8 foot tops but he looks more between 7-8. And Gerald is 50% SD. This is why i question all the people who try and give concrete sizes for SD crosses. Between all our snakes, we have such a big variance in percentages, yet all our snakes are close in size with the exception of Phyllis who should technically be the smallest of the lot yet she is a monster lol.

Caesar has a lot more girth it sounds like but not the length.

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Yeah there is no guaranteed definite size for SD. I feel like the average size is more like 6-10’ than this 5-7’ average that people like to talk about. A 5’ retic is an Indonesian corn snake lol. Although some people say kayuadi is a SD island but some of that locale can hit 12’+.
When they’re 8’ they just don’t look like it because they’re relatively thin. If I had never seen Gerald go around the back and both sides of his T8 I wouldn’t guess he was that long. Totally covers those three sides or one long sized twice easily. I haven’t had a Red Bull in years but he’s probably as thick as those cans at the very most.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Yeah there is no guaranteed definite size for SD. I feel like the average size is more like 6-10’ than this 5-7’ average that people like to talk about. A 5’ retic is an Indonesian corn snake lol. Although some people say kayuadi is a SD island but some of that locale can hit 12’+.
When they’re 8’ they just don’t look like it because they’re relatively thin. If I had never seen Gerald go around the back and both sides of his T8 I wouldn’t guess he was that long. Totally covers those three sides or one long sized twice easily. I haven’t had a Red Bull in years but he’s probably as thick as those cans at the very most.


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Hmm so he is probably only slightly thinner than Caesar. Caesar is probably a little thicker than a redbull can but thinner than a coke can.

And yeah, this 5-7 feet SD thing i think is breeders trying to be conservative to sell their animals lol. So far out of all our SD hybrids, they seem to be around the 8 foot mark.

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Originally Posted by 67temp

Here is a video from Garret Hartle where he explains the mainland X SD vs. SD X mainland and percentage sizes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjs6v3CDIjc

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thank you for the link! Don't know if I buy the theory but Garret does have a lot of good info and experience.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

And yeah, this 5-7 feet SD thing i think is breeders trying to be conservative to sell their animals lol.

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Yes that is very true.

Both of our SD adults are between 7-10' and I'd consider them small.
(75% kalatoa (SD) 12.5% jampea (dwarf) - we backtracked to find the original breeder through three hands to finally confirm the %, they had been listed incorrectly at time of purchase as 87.5% SD, probably because that would raise the value or perhaps simple misunderstanding of the terms) :mad:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Hmm so he is probably only slightly thinner than Caesar. Caesar is probably a little thicker than a redbull can but thinner than a coke can.

And yeah, this 5-7 feet SD thing i think is breeders trying to be conservative to sell their animals lol. So far out of all our SD hybrids, they seem to be around the 8 foot mark.

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That's about the size of Wallace, a Red Bull can, but he keeps getting longer. He's got to be 7.5 - 8 feet.


Topping at 9 is where I feel comfortable handling solo, unless he stays lean. The SD blood usually keeps them a bit thinner at least.

And really, 9-10 feet is a dwarf size in the retic world.