hot rock+ reptibark

Has anyone ever heard of a hotrock burning the substrate, because reptibark is wood, and I would hate to see Olaf's cage burn down (and possibly my house, too). thanks.

I know it's not the best of questions. I'm guessing it would be fine, but I'm just double checking.

NEVER use a hot rock for a reptile.. it will burn the snake! Use an under tank heater.. preferably flexwatt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by olaf

Has anyone ever heard of a hotrock burning the substrate, because reptibark is wood, and I would hate to see Olaf's cage burn down (and possibly my house, too). thanks.

---

You should not be using a hot rock, they can be very dangerose to the health of your snake and a fire hazard.
It is safer to use an undertank heater. I'm sure more folks will hop in here.
Sorry to make this so short but I need to get back to cleaning house. I'm sure you will soon get alot of wonderful tips on how to better regulate your snake's temps.
Sincerely
Rusty

I am currently using a UTH for the primary heat source. It's just that my dad has had snakes since he was my age (before you could get snakes on the internet and there was only one herper-and he lived in Florida) and he hasn't had a problem with hotrocks.

I know heat rocks are considered bad, but I am confused as to why EVERY pet store recommends them.

arent they ok for lizzards, i dont think they hurt lizzards right?

im not sure though, please correct me if im wrong

...because they want to to buy it, for your snake to get burnt up and die, and for you to come back to them for more herps...or the pet stores that do recommend them are idiots :)

Get rid of the hot rock....just cause your dad and this FIRST herper (LMAO) had no problems with them, does not mean that your snake will not get burnt up.....

I have seen snakes get burned by hot rocks.....what a mess :(

And since your dad is the expert on hot rocks, what is his opinion on your original question?

Mr Python, I wouldn't use a hot rock for any living thing.

I have also seen burnt snakes.. not pleasant.

oh, ok. i would never use a hotrock either but i was just wondering.

Well, now you know. :)

[QUOTE=daniel1983....just cause your dad and this FIRST herper (LMAO) had no problems with them, does not mean that your snake will not get burnt up.....
[/QUOTE]
First, what does LMAO mean?
And second, wouldn't they be alright if they went through all the proper testing? One would think that they wouldn't put something potentially dangerous on the market.

LMAO = Laughing My A$$ Off

Since BPs don't really like to stay in the open too long, wouldn't they only stay on the hot rock for a short time? And is there anyway to hook a thermostat or something of that sort to prevent overheating?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by olaf

First, what does LMAO mean?
And second, wouldn't they be alright if they went through all the proper testing? One would think that they wouldn't put something potentially dangerous on the market.

---

Laughing My *fill the blank* Off

That'd be nice if they only put safe things on the market. But.. it doesn't work that way, because the hot rocks are aesthetically pleasing, people want to buy them, so they sell them! There's a reason why any care sheet worth it's salt says DON'T USE HOTROCKS.

Besides, even an UTH bought straight from the petstore is going to get too hot, that is why a thermostat or rheostat is essential for ANY form of heating for herps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by olaf

Since BPs don't really like to stay in the open too long, wouldn't they only stay on the hot rock for a short time? And is there anyway to hook a thermostat or something of that sort to prevent overheating?

---

Would you want to force your shy snake to sit on an (overheated) hot rock just to keep warm? One of the great things about under tank heaters (and belly heat) is you can put a hiding spot over it so the snake is secure AND warm.

I wouldn't want to mess with a hot rock, thermostat or not, for several reasons. Just get yourself some flexwatt, or other UTH and a thermostat/rheostat.

http://www.zoomed.com/html/rock_heat...pful_hints.php

and I quote:
"Ball Python warning: Practice extreme care when using a rock heater with ball pythons!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shelby

that is why a thermostat or rheostat is essential for ANY form of heating for herps.

---

do bulbs need a thermostat? i use bulbs in both my cages and one has a thermostat but one doesnt the one without has the right temps. i dont know april i think i got you there!:P ;) muhahahaha!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shelby

Laughing My *fill the blank* Off

That'd be nice if they only put safe things on the market. But.. it doesn't work that way, because the hot rocks are aesthetically pleasing, people want to buy them, so they sell them! There's a reason why any care sheet worth it's salt says DON'T USE HOTROCKS.

Besides, even an UTH bought straight from the petstore is going to get too hot, that is why a thermostat or rheostat is essential for ANY form of heating for herps.

---

So does that mean that a thermostat or rheostat would work to make a hot rock safe, or am I just interpreting(probably spelled wrong, but that's about the biggest word I've ever seen) your answer wrong?

Interpreting wrong.. I don't feel that hot rocks are safe even with a thermo/rheostat. They tend to get major hotspots, and it is an inadaquate way to heat your herp's enclosure. The snake can't feel secure when it can't hide and be warm at the same time.

Would maybe a spotlamp thing work better than a hot-rock? Or would it cause problems with light, because then the BP wouldn't feel secure because it's too bright.

i use blacklights for my snakes. just dont use a regular incandescent light for it. it does cut down on the humidity though, i find myself misting my snakes cages about 1-2 times a day to keep humidity around 55%

Stephen L. Barten, DVM
From his Burns chapter, in Reptile Medicine and Surgery (Douglas Mader, DVM, ed. W.B. Saunders. 1996. pp. 9-19).

"Thermal burns may result from any source of heat. Heat sources that allow direct contact between the captive reptile and the source, such as hot rocks, heating pads, or spotlights within the cage, are most often implicated in burn cases. Burns may be prevented by keeping heat sources outside of the cage or shielding them to prevent contact with the captive reptile. Backup thermostats should be wired into the system in case the primary thermostat malfunctions."

Hey, Dr Barten is my herp vet! Very cool guy.

I wouldn't use a light because it does suck all the humidity out of the air. If you really want to use one, use a red or black light, as a white light will definitely stress a nocturnal snake such as a BP.

Notice the cage I built around my lamp to keep the snake off. The box has changed drastically since this pic was taken. I am currently researching, and upgrading her cage to make it better for her, this weekend I am cutting two holes in the top and adding a white light and a dark light. I am going to run the wire mesh across the ceiling to keep her even safer from the light. I want to order some "Flexwatt" soon, I just need to find a way to apply it because of the thickness of the wood. I did discover I have about 1/8" paper board/cardboard across the back, so maybe I will place some there. The thing to do Olaf is be willing to learn and accept criticism. Most people here only want to teach you how to do it better. There is a lot of sound knowledge here in these forums.
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../1/0/bp002.JPG

ANY heat producing product for a reptile cage has to have some type of control device on it.. No matter if it is a bulb, mat or coal stove:)

Pet stores continue to sell hot rocks because #1 they "look pretty" #2 people buy them not knowing the risks to their snakes and most pet stores promote them!

So they look pretty. The rescue BCI we have came in with a pretty well started thermal belly burn....direct cause....a heat rock...not very pretty...not very nice for the snake! Would you enjoy a 3 foot sunburn type thing on your tender belly (and mind his was just starting....had he stayed on that rock...it would have been MUCH more serious).

Please don't use heat rocks. Perhaps at one time in the reptile market there wasn't much else to offer but with so many other heating options available at reasonable prices, there's just no logical reason to use these. If people stopped using them, these stupid items would stop being produced.

The best way to use a heat rock is to cut the cord off it....makes a lovely albeit expensive cage decoration!


~~Jo~~

lars5277- you can use flexwatt inside the cage as long as you put a thin sheet of plexiglass over it and then silicone it so no water can get in there wat so ever.

I have pretty much ruled out the hotrock idea;) . But I still have 2 quick questions.
1. What should you use to make a basking spot, if any? (I should have asked that right away, but I though of it last night)
2. What is the best way to heat the air temp?

flexwatt or other UTH will do what you need when controlled properly. It will increase the inside air space not just the floor area. You can easily creat a hot and cool side as for basking...I don't have a basking area per say in my tubs the hot and cool side alow the snake a choice. It isn't written in stone that you need to have a hot spot basking area heated with a lamp. I don't like lamps as everyone has said it will suck the moisture out and these guys are nocturnal so they will be hiding while the lamp was on all day anyway unless your using something like above that does not give off "light".

So tell me if anyone objects to this. Right now I have a 10 gallon tank with an UTH, but the air temps are 70-75 about. I am currently building a cage 35 inches tall, so the air temp would probably be a problem. I have decided not to use a hotrock, but to just go with a ceramic heat emitter. I would be losing a basking spot, but at least the air would be warmer. Should I put some sort of cage over the heat emitter so he can't touch it? Oh yeah, I am also going to have an UTH on his new cage.

what is the temps at the bottom of the tank where your snake is ???, I might be wrong but air temps dont need to be very high as long as the temp is correct where the snake lays and hides.

On the warm side of my girls (cleo) tank is is 90 deg on the floor, and 78 deg on the cool side. I don't use anything other than the natural light in the room anymore because the heat lamp was drying things out way to much

Any time a heat source, like a emiter or a bulb is inside the cage it needs a screened cover to prevent the snake from touching it as it will be very hot on the surface.

Also if you like the look a hot rock provides it can be subed with a flat piece of slate or lime stone and the rock can be placed over part of the UTH to warm the rock a little.

IMHO hot rocks shouldn't be sold at all, but are because inexperienced people will often fall for the sales talk (which, of course makes for profit to the retailer).

I wouldn't use them for any reptile as it risks the animal getting a horrible burn. I use UTH's for some of my snakes but ceramic heaters enclosed in safety guards and on a thermostat for my boids...like this.

They work really well and they give the snake a basking spot if he wants it too, plus there's no danger of him getting burnt.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...2/PICT0055.jpg

(That's a much younger Byron showing off just after he'd had a shed:D )

OK.. hot rocks have No means to regulate their temperatures. And yes, I know that there are a few that do have a rheostat; but they have an irregular surface, thus there is uneven heat distribution on the surface.
Reptiles have no porous, feely-type skin like we do; thus, they cannot feel themselves baking to deth.
When I was a kid, I had an iggy; he ended up burning on a hot rock. You could see the irregular burns on his chest; from the hot spots on the rock..

is this 35" tall cage for a bp? for a big cage you might want to look into radiant heat panels sold by helix and pro products. also you might want to run 2 tstats one for the hot side and one for the cool side, it's going to take a lot of heat and control (thermostats) to keep a cage that big warm enough.


vaughn

What watt ceramic heater would be nescissary for heating a 16x16x35" cage? It's not quite that big, because the bottom is a square with a corner cut off and the top 15" slope into a triangle into a point in the back, so I would guess it's about 4780 cu. in., or 2.75 cu. ft. Right now, I have a ZOO-MED rh4 undertank heater, but my snake likes climbing, so I want to get the air temps up more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by justcage

ANY heat producing product for a reptile cage has to have some type of control device on it.. No matter if it is a bulb, mat or coal stove:)

---

i know, the last part i was just messin with shelby:P :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by olaf

What watt ceramic heater would be nescissary for heating a 16x16x35" cage? It's not quite that big, because the bottom is a square with a corner cut off and the top 15" slope into a triangle into a point in the back, so I would guess it's about 4780 cu. in., or 2.75 cu. ft. Right now, I have a ZOO-MED rh4 undertank heater, but my snake likes climbing, so I want to get the air temps up more.

---

It will really be hard to say what wattage you need. Every cage is different and will react differently to a heating element in some aspect.. I would go one size larger than you think and then jus have the thermostat control the temps...

I think that this is for a room, but would something like this work, or would it be too powerful? It's got a thermostat built in, so that might be helpful.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=4100060

Yeah that woudl make the cage an oven within 10 seconds....
http://www.mgreptiles.com/EMITMAIN.html

I don't have the largest amount of money to spend on a thermostat, so I looked on ebay and found this- http://cgi.ebay.com/SZMRT500R-REPTIL...QQcmdZViewItem does anyone know if this is a good thermostat? I have a zoo-med UTH, so I would think that they would work in conjunction with each other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by olaf

I don't have the largest amount of money to spend on a thermostat, so I looked on ebay and found this- http://cgi.ebay.com/SZMRT500R-REPTIL...QQcmdZViewItem does anyone know if this is a good thermostat? I have a zoo-med UTH, so I would think that they would work in conjunction with each other.

---

Itll do the job. Out of the lower priced thermostats (under $50) I think its the best and its a better option than a dimmer.

I am using the same one, works fine, just check your temps often