Ball Python Keeps Biting and Holding

Hello everyone.

My female spider bp is about a year old and has bitten me the past couple of times I’ve tried to take her out. Two weeks ago she bit me when I took her out to handle her, and she bit me again yesterday while I was preparing to move her 30 minutes away to my parent’s house where I’m staying now.

She’s bitten me about 7 times now (since I adopted her in August) and each time it’s been a bite-and-hold, which I’m assuming is a feeding response. She’s never struck at me in a defensive way (except one time when I spooked her and she head butted me). I’m not sure why she believes my hands are food, because I always wash my hands thoroughly before handling her. I’ve even made sure to avoid handling her on days when I’ve touched raw chicken. I think she may still have problems correctly identifying what’s food, since she’s tried to eat a Sherpa lined hoodie when she was about 3 months old, and she tried to eat a towel that I was cleaning blood up with (after she bit me two weeks ago).

I’m concerned it may be due to her spider genes. She flops upside-down sometimes and wobbles during feeding, and when she bit me the 4th time it seemed like she had trouble letting go (she wiggled her mouth around like she was trying to get loose but was still snagged so I helped her). I noticed she doesn’t really ball up either, and I’ve only seen her do it once.

I’m also not sure if there’s a good way to get them to let go after a bite. Two times when I was in a hurry, because I needed to be somewhere soon, I submerged her in lukewarm water until she released her grasp. The other times I just waited, but she would take around 20-45 minutes to let go. Hopefully I can stop her from biting me in the first place so this won’t be a problem.

I’m still kinda nervous around her which I’m sure does not help, but I’ve always had a mild fear of snakes. One of the reasons I decided to get her was to help me overcome it since I’m trying to become a biologist and might need to work with them one day. Her biting me has not been helping assuage these fears (possibly reinforcing them) and it doesn’t help that when she does bite me she acts normal - she’ll nose around and smell a bit, then suddenly open her mouth and close it on my hand without striking, and wrap around it. It’s a surprise as to when it will occur, because it has happened when I first take her out, after she’s been out for a while, and right as I’m putting her back into her tub.

Also I feed her once a week usually on Friday, and try to only handle her Sunday-Thursday to give her time to relax and digest.

I hope this wasn’t too much information to read through.
Any help would be appreciated as I’m sure I must be doing something wrong.

TL;DR: Snake keeps biting me like she’s trying to eat my hand, and it’s becoming more frequent. Unsure what’s wrong and what to do.


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Prey size? Is she due for a shed soon? Enclosure? Temps? I am not trying to be rude but for the great people here to help the most efficiently as possible this info will go a long way. Sorry your snake is having this response. Best wishes always ;)

Wow, that is SO unusual...and such ROTTEN luck for you. I've known countless snakes for decades & never had one as clueless as yours seems to be.
It may indeed be an defect from inbreeding, assuming she isn't starving? It may be that her sense of smell is poor, for whatever reason, as she appears
to be basing her decision to "feed" on your hand by just your body warmth & perhaps motion. (warm & wiggling = prey to her) Are you SURE you're
feeding her enough???? As a snake grows, you need to size UP her prey...what are you feeding her? (pix of her AND her typical prey might help?)

You're a beginner with snakes and you'd be so much happier (feel comfortable) with a snake that matches your experience. It's not for me to say, but it
would make total sense for you to swap snakes with someone who has a reliable (boring?) "pet" and the experience and desire to work with yours. Or
just re-home yours & start over...(and NOT with a king snake either, LOL! They can be pretty stupid about hands sometimes too...)

In fact, if you live anywhere near me (I won't ship), I could fix you up with a perfect pet snake (just not a BP).

One other thing comes to my mind though: have you had her stool checked for parasites? If she has them, that could make her hungry all the time, since
she's sharing her food. But short of that, you somehow picked a totally wrong snake. :(

As far as making a snake let go, a bit of alcohol is often recommended...though I've never personally used it. You could try rubbing it on your hands, so
they smell of it when you try to handle her. I'm impressed that you've had her this long, under the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Wow, that is SO unusual...and such ROTTEN luck for you. I've known countless snakes for decades & never had one as clueless as yours seems to be.
It may indeed be an defect from inbreeding, assuming she isn't starving? It may be that her sense of smell is poor, for whatever reason, as she appears
to be basing her decision to "feed" on your hand by just your body warmth & perhaps motion. (warm & wiggling = prey to her) Are you SURE you're
feeding her enough???? As a snake grows, you need to size UP her prey...what are you feeding her? (pix of her AND her typical prey might help?)

You're a beginner with snakes and you'd be so much happier (feel comfortable) with a snake that matches your experience. It's not for me to say, but it
would make total sense for you to swap snakes with someone who has a reliable (boring?) "pet" and the experience and desire to work with yours. Or
just re-home yours & start over...(and NOT with a king snake either, LOL! They can be pretty stupid about hands sometimes too...)

In fact, if you live anywhere near me (I won't ship), I could fix you up with a perfect pet snake (just not a BP).

One other thing comes to my mind though: have you had her stool checked for parasites? If she has them, that could make her hungry all the time, since
she's sharing her food. But short of that, you somehow picked a totally wrong snake. :(

As far as making a snake let go, a bit of alcohol is often recommended...though I've never personally used it. You could try rubbing it on your hands, so
they smell of it when you try to handle her. I'm impressed that you've had her this long, under the circumstances.

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I wonder if sense of smell and eye site both are diminished or non existence?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...25e52ff8a.heic
I know the feeling, I’m still iffy when I feed him cause this happens last year. Lol


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aerries

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...25e52ff8a.heic
I know the feeling, I’m still iffy when I feed him cause this happens last year. Lol


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"I'm going to eat you now!" LOL What a mean little bugger.

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

I wonder if sense of smell and eye site both are diminished or non existence?

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That's possible too...but most snakes (including BPs) don't rely on vision for anything other than the motion that signifies "prey" to them. That's why a hungry
snake will chase our motion thru the glass/plexi of a cage, but back off when they finally get our scent & realize their mistake. They go by scent & touch mostly.

But of course when snakes are bred in captivity for fancy morphs, all sorts of strange genetic things can happen (including "lethal genes"). No way to be sure, we
can only try to suggest reasons online...so you can rule out issues like insufficient food or parasites. And to be honest, some snakes ARE smarter than others.....

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

"I'm going to eat you now!" LOL What a mean little bugger.

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Omg just check out my post for it, it’s one of my old threads lol it was hysterical to see my husbands response. [emoji23]🤣 I wish I had it on video. But sorry I don’t wanna hijack a thread lol


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aerries

Omg just check out my post for it, it’s one of my old threads lol it was hysterical to see my husbands response. [emoji23]�� I wish I had it on video. But sorry I don’t wanna hijack a thread lol


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Link it please

After you wash your hands use lemon scent hand sanitizer on them before picking her up. Between the sharp smell and the cooling effect from the alcohol in it, she may leave your hands alone.

Otherwise keep a small container of white vinegar in your snake room. When you get a food bite, a drop of it rubbed on your snake's nose will break the food response; it even works on my retics. Sometimes just the smell of it is enough if you rub some on a finger on your other hand and get it close enough to your snake's nose so that it gets a good whiff of it.

How heavy is she and what size prey are you feeding her?

That's the first thing I would consider, since she's apparently always hungry LOL. But super unusual for a ball python!

Sorry for the late reply, my relatives are over so I’ve been busy.

She just shed a couple of weeks ago so I left her alone after finding this out when I went in to clean her enclosure. I actually picked her up really quick when she was deep in blue for the cleaning and she seemed really calm.

I think she’s around 200-220 Grams. The last time I took a picture of her on the scale was in March and she was 168 grams.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cb099bb8c9.jpg

This will be my third week feeding her rat pups. I’m not sure how many grams they are because their website is under maintenance.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3ccb419eba.jpg
I’m going to feed her tonight, because Friday is usually feeding day.

The setup I have for her is pretty simple, just a tub with eco earth substrate, two hides, a water bowl, hygrometer/thermometer, and an under tank heater hooked to a thermostat.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3f1c9f3518.jpg
I’m planning on adding more decorations in the future, but I’m not sure what to put still.

The humidity is at 74, ambient temp is 80 degrees, and temp in her hide from the heater is around 90 degrees.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f52dfc64c0.jpg

Here’s a pick of her peeking out. owo
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7133878991.jpg


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Originally Posted by GoldenRoyal

Here’s a pick of her peeking out. owo
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...7133878991.jpg

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LOL that's the classic "I'm hungry feed me hoo-man" pose!

Just finished feeding her.

Here’s a few pics, but it might be hard to determine the size of the rat.
It took her a while to get it down, but she managed. I’m surprised she pretty much went straight to eating. She usually likes to bite and sit like that for a while before attempting to swallow the prey.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d629a10028.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...aacc61519d.jpg

And afterwards.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c557008597.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a9966b7306.jpg

This is basically her default setting. She likes to have her head poking out of her hide whenever she’s awake.


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I might have to see if I can get an appointment set up for the vet’s so I can rule out any illnesses or parasites.

Hopefully there is something I can do to fix this. I would rather not give up on my animal even if she is difficult, and I dunno if swapping is really an option anyway because I don’t know any snake owners that live near me. Most people I know think snakes shouldn’t be owned as pets (which I once believed as well) and think I’m crazy for keeping one (including my parents). My room mates have actually been asking me if they can see my snake, but I’m afraid to show her off to them, because if they see her bite me (or worse, if she bites one of them) they’ll come out of the experience with a worse opinion on snakes instead of a better one.


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Snakes often bite & hold their already-dead prey, just to make sure....it's a good instinct, as swallowing a rat that's still alive can be a fatal mistake.

As far as I can tell, the prey you're feeding is sized just fine, so why she is still so hungry is a mystery...unless, as I said earlier, she has "help" from parasites.
You want to take a fresh stool sample to the vet, even if you just drop it off & make an appt'mt for another day with her. Maybe the vet will have an answer
for you, if they can check the stool ahead of time. It's typically hard to make an appt'mt ahead of time & get lucky enough to get a fresh stool on the right day.

I'm glad you are determined to work with her, despite the difficulty and the fact that she's a far cry from being a "good will ambassador" for her species...:rolleyes:
Snakes, like other animals, are individuals too. I agree that allowing others to get bit by her won't win any friends for snakes (much less for you). I hope her
personality improves, but if not, that someday you also get a snake that will be more docile, as most are, and one that you'll enjoy cuddling.

I picked up a gorgeous killer queenbee and while she shows very little of the spider wobble, she is as defensive as they come.
She doesn't grab on like the 'food??' response you described with yours - That chill one moment, headbump and then slow mouthgrab. She just starts striking erratically. Anything that catches her attention.
I don't think it has to do with the spider gene specifically. I think I just got a 'moody' snake. I've recently seen a normal type behave the same way. I've seen super chill spiders as well.

The biting is rare as ball pythons are typically more passive in thier defense, hence the 'ball'. But the way you described your snake does sound more like a feeding response. If she's pooping well, maybe try feeding every 4 days for a bit and see if that helps? I had that issue with a kingsnake and the increased feeding schedule is what helped mellow him out. But yes! Do get her checked for parasites just in case as well.

It always seems like there's some joke being played on us somewhere. I'm sorry that the attempt to allieve some fears seems to be adding to them instead. You are awesome for trying to see this through and understand the why and not just writing it off and letting your phobia take the front. I think that's wonderful and should help you go far in your field of study when you can show this level of concern and care.

my ball python has not bitten me yet but she was pretty mad when i took her out to clean the enclosure in the other hand my corn snake as she gotten older shes moody last thursday i digged her out of the tank and she striked at me twice but didn't bite me snakes can be moody sometimes there not like a cat or a dog snakes don't really care about you or love you but there fun to have as pets

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Originally Posted by ballpythoncornsnake

my ball python has not bitten me yet but she was pretty mad when i took her out to clean the enclosure in the other hand my corn snake as she gotten older shes moody last thursday i digged her out of the tank and she striked at me twice but didn't bite me snakes can be moody sometimes there not like a cat or a dog snakes don't really care about you or love you but there fun to have as pets

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Sometimes you need to re-think how you approach and handle them: remember that being out of their cage ("cave") or being picked up instinctively means danger
from predators that are about to eat them (-like you! -not saying you would, but you need to remember where a snake is "coming from"). If your handling is too abrupt,
& you don't allow them time to recognize you (scaring them in the process) then I have to say that you have earned a bite: most of the time snakes that are handled
with empathy do NOT bite...it's up to you to make a little more effort, & maybe slow down a bit. Communication with a snake is different, because they don't see well
(don't identify us visually) and don't hear, but they know a great deal by our scent and touch...you have to use their best senses to communicate what's going on.

When you re-examine your approach, you'll likely find that your snakes calm down, & living without stress is better for all of us. Remembering what your pet's
best senses are helps to avoid confusion: if you handle their food & smell like a rat, your snake will bite you because they go after scent & motion...this is
easy to avoid. If you need to clean their cage, first give them a chance to recognize your scent so they don't panic (feeling under attack)- either blow air
across your hand in their direction until you see them flicking their tongue (how they 'smell'), or let them sniff a sleeve of a shirt you're not wearing or even
some of your hair IF it's long enough (to keep your face out of the way). When you routinely approach a snake this way, giving them information that you
are not food or a predator but someone they recognize, they relax more and are far less likely to bite. How would YOU feel if you didn't see well, couldn't
hear and some huge unknown creature approached you?

Hello everyone,

I’m back with another inquiry. The past few nights I’ve been observing Freyja to see if maybe she has another problem affecting her behavior. She’s been pretty active the last few nights, really exploring her tub, and just before I went to sleep I noticed she was opening her mouth every once in a while. I tried to take a closer peek and it looked like she could have some mucus in her mouth (so I’m thinking possible RI). Moments after I turned off my lamp to go to sleep I hear her make very loud fart-like noises and I turned on the light to see her mouth open, so could that indicate difficulty breathing?
I will try to get her a vet appointment soon (she pooped already this week and I forgot to keep it for a sample) to see if she may be sick.

Could an RI impair her ability to smell, possibly making her mistake my hands as food more often?
Also, for stool samples, how fresh do they need to be?

Thank you for all of your help so far in diagnosing her issues.

Yes, sounds like an RI...I'm so sorry! :( Poor snakes cannot cough out mucus, so they really need help with an RI to breathe. I can see where an RI
could impair her scent discrimination, but the degree of enthusiasm she shows for your hands is still pretty unusual, especially for a BP.

The fresher the better for a poop sample.
If you can manage to scoop one while it's still moist, seal it up in a zip lock baggie and store it in the fridge. 48 hours like that can still be okay. A dried up dusty poop won't reveal as much sadly.

Sorry to hear she may have a RI ;n;
The open mouth breathing and mucus are classic signs.

The fart sound... I know a couple of mine let one rip when they urinate or poop. But if that's not the case for yours it could have been her trying to clear that excess mucus. Just rare for it to be so loud.

Maybe she’s one of those “bite first and decide if it’s food later” personalities, I’ve met a couple rat snakes and a juvenile woma like that (where anything that’s warm and moves is food until proven otherwise) but never a ball. That’s very odd for a ball python. You should check out “Snake Discovery” on YouTube, I believe they have a Rosy boa like that and they may have some ideas you can try. I think they put their email in the descriptions of their videos.

It’s a good thing you’re making an appointment with the vet. RI can definitely impede a snakes ability to smell, but I would think the feeding response would be hampered by the illness as well. Snakes usually don’t tend to eat well when they’re sick, and I wouldn’t expect her to be as food aggressive as she is if she’s also ill with an RI... so strange. As for stool samples I would assume the fresher the better but asking the vet office will give you the best answer. Please keep us updated

Okay, so I brought her to the vet today and she said Freya wasn’t showing any signs of an RI, and that I should slightly raise the temps to activate her immune system in case something mild is lingering. She opened up her mouth and it was clean and clear of mucus. I was thinking that maybe since my apartment is usually in the lower 70’s, and my parents house is in the low 80’s, the move may have helped her to fight off any symptoms she was showing.

I also told her about the biting, and she said maybe her feeding response it just very active and maybe I should only handle her on Monday and Tuesday when she’s completely full. When I explained the “nosing into my arm/hand and then biting it” phenomenon, she said that she’s seen snakes that do that to potential prey before consuming it, so maybe that’s just a weird ball python behavior. She also recommended vinegar for releasing snake bites, so I’ll be sure to keep both vinegar and hand sanitizer near her tub Incase I need it in the future.

I’m glad she’s completely healthy, but I’m still a bit worried about the biting. It’s honestly the anticipation of whether she’s going to decide to bite or not that raises my heartbeat rather than the actual bite (because after than I’m just like “welp, I guess I’ll just wait around for her to release”).

Also, I’m gonna bring in a stool sample whenever she decides to defecate this week to rule out parasites, and I purchased a snake hook to see if I can associate the hook to ‘handling time’ instead of ‘feeding time’.

I have to admit that I was a bit jealous when the vet picked her up and handled her a ton without any signs of biting or running away. She just wrapped onto her hand and didn’t flinch much even when she was gesturing. I guess she’s a lot more experienced with handling, being an exotic animal vet. Perhaps my nervousness makes me a target?


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I forgot to mention Freya’s a whopping 273 grams now according to the scale at the vet’s office! That seems like a huge jump from just a few months ago. I’m guessing their growth starts to ramp up once prey items increase in size.


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Originally Posted by GoldenRoyal

I forgot to mention Freya’s a whopping 273 grams now according to the scale at the vet’s office! That seems like a huge jump from just a few months ago. I’m guessing their growth starts to ramp up once prey items increase in size.


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Most snakes put weight on fast, once they start taking hands...;) LOL

That's great that her health has checked out, pending her stool check too...just frustrating that she still thinks you're edible. That's unusual for most snakes,
but especially for BPs. Maybe in time & with more handling she'll get the right idea...I hope so, for your sake. Hang in there, glad you're trying to hook train too. :gj:

The vet's confidence in handling her might play some part in who your snake thinks is edible, but I think it's more likely that she was inhibited by the new
unfamiliar surroundings & unusual smells.