So I have decieded not to breed. Food for thought.

So after doing much research and looking at numerous animals across several species a few things comes to mind.

1) All my animals are pets. This means that I take them out and spend time with them almost daily. If I start breeding then the time I have to care for each animal is shortened.

2) Housing quality and cost. The more animals I have, the less room and money I have to put towards making larger, quality enclosures for my animals. I have plans to build much larger more natural enclosures for Rainbow and Monty (housed separately). They need room to exercise and roam about to stay healthy and happy. I want to create more natural enclosures for my Ball pythons and RTB as well. I want to provide a quality of life for them.

3) Need for breeding? With all that is available and being breed, I can find almost anything that I desire morph wise. So many people are already doing it. I don't need to sell them to pay for the ones I already have. What if they don't sell (unintentional collection growth)?

4) Cost of feeding. Can I afford it? Yes but it does go up.

So Here is the question. For those who don't breed, why did you choose not to?

The future is not written and I might one day change my mind.

Short answer: I'm not ready.
I think to properly and responsibly breed you need years of experience. Granted I've got that, there are other factors.
-I'm not ready financially.
-My snakes are pets, bought to be pets.
-With BPs especially, the market is already over saturated

Most people wouldn't even have this thought process with dogs/cats. You never have to justify why you wouldn't breed an animal. I think more folks should have to justify why they're choosing to breed animals.

I didn't breed for the first 5-6 years of owning reptiles because I had other things going on in my life, and I wouldn't have been able to give them the time they deserve. Now that I'm more stationary (dad life) I am able to breed :) First clutch should be late in the year.

Interesting question, and I'm excited to see what others have to say.

The thought never crossed my mind that I should breed. All of my furry pets except for the hamster were spayed before I even adopted them so I guess I transferred that "no babies expecting" mentality to my herps as well. I have other people make such suggestions with breeding my Merauke BTS but nah. I prefer to leave these kinds of things to those who take breeding seriously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by craigafrechette

-With BPs especially, the market is already over saturated

---

Amen brother.

I think it would be okay as long as you have the time, finances, and places you know you could find each baby a nice home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaust

Most people wouldn't even have this thought process with dogs/cats. You never have to justify why you wouldn't breed an animal. I think more folks should have to justify why they're choosing to breed animals.

---

I agree but I do think it should be said and others who might be considering breeding need to make sure that is a true path for them and have the dedication and resources to do it. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaust

First clutch should be late in the year.

---

Congratz. Looking forward to seeing them progress.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AnnieHeart

I think it would be okay as long as you have the time, finances, and places you know you could find each baby a nice home.

---

Some are more prepared than others for rehousing them. I am focusing my efforts on the education aspect. I want to share my love of the animals without breeding at this point.

Thanks to everyone who gave information on breeding. If I ever change my mind, I am greatly more prepared to do it as a result. I know I ask a lot of questions. That is how I learn.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyrivers

Some are more prepared than others for rehousing them. I am focusing my efforts on the education aspect. I want to share my love of the animals without breeding at this point.

Thanks to everyone who gave information on breeding. If I ever change my mind, I am greatly more prepared to do it as a result. I know I ask a lot of questions. That is how I learn.

---

Good for you! Wishing you success!!

I've bred crested geckos briefly in the past (on a small scale), and even that took time and money than I had at the time.

I may one day decide to breed but it won't be to make money. It will be solely small scale, with high end animals, and I will make darn sure I have the proper set up, time, money, food, and capability of keeping all the babies until/if they sell.

NOTE: I doubt I will breed BPs. I have mucho respect for the folks that do - and can actually make some cash on it - but I think I'd rather branch out into a market a little less saturated. I've always considered boas as something that would be interesting and fun, and I like their morphs. I've also considered geckos again, cresties or even leos. They're fun little critters. IDK, we'll see.

As long as you took everything into account, you made a proper decision. I for one may try my hand in breeding when i have MUCH more experience (like in 7+ years), but who even knows where i'll be at that point. I want to do it for the experience, but only once i know im ready, financially and mentally, to take such an aspect. Dont think ill plan on making any money with it, either. May keep most of the babies if I do it with high end morphs.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

For me it's a balance of cost, time, and almost an ethical consideration. I see breeding as the pinnacle of successful captive husbandry, so a successful brood would let me know that I'm taking care of my animals right. But there also is (or should be) more to deciding to breed than just "can I do it?" I probably could have thrown two of our cresties together this year and produced viable eggs, but where would I keep the babies? Could I afford to set up enclosures for all of them? If I produce random low-quality offspring with unknown genetics, how am I going to find them quality homes? Can I afford to keep all of the potential babies if I can't successfully find them homes? With over-saturated critters like BPs and crested geckos I think there needs to be a further consideration than just can it be done. The market is already over-saturated with normal-type animals. Does an amateur hobbyist/novice breeder really need to add more?

So I may try my hand at breeding in the future, but I only want to do it when I can make a positive contribution to the hobby. I don't want to throw middling-quality animals into a saturated market just because I can.

I think it is really all about priorities and ability to provide for the animals properly (time, money, space, etc.).

In my case, I do plan to one day breed and am growing out a couple project females for that intended purpose. That said, I'm in no hurry and plan to house and treat them as pets. If I do ever find that perfect male and time / finances allow, I will breed, but won't plan on making loads of cash from it and will also plan on keeping / providing for all the offspring until I sell them.

I think when you consider breeding, you have to know going in that making money will not be guaranteed and that you may even loose money. That said, you have to really enjoy the animals you intend to breed, enough so that you wouldn't mind housing / keeping the offspring.

All of the comments so far about the market are also true. I think you really need to consider what the market is for a certain species or even morph and how easily you would be able to place them. I too have geckos, cresteds, gargs, and a leachie. Of the three, only the leachies have a strong market, and are hard to come by, so I would only ever consider breeding my leachie.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nellasaur

So I may try my hand at breeding in the future, but I only want to do it when I can make a positive contribution to the hobby. I don't want to throw middling-quality animals into a saturated market just because I can.

---

Please also keep in mind % chance for successful desired outcome and pair accordingly to raise % of success and keep in mind that life in general is random and be prepared for the random outcome. This was a key factor in my decision to not to breed. Sure I would love to breed Bob my Banana, jigsaw, granite ball python to something with Surge or Spark to enhance the pattern. Should I? After looking at the chance for success I realized it might take sever years to get the desired outcome if ever. Bob is a wonderful animal. Great temper, socialish, and healthy. Would the world be better for having the new animal in it? Not likely. All the offspring would be lovely but would have to rehome/house them all till desired result achieved? I will buy other peoples success from time to time and be happy to have them.

Another thing that I consider is my age. I am 42. In 20 years will be 62. 30 years be 72. There is a real chance that adding a new animal after that would have to be legacyed to someone who knows how to care for them. This thought make me think about revising my will to include rehoming my animals and their care after I am gone. No I am not "over the hill" but is something that I think gets over looked from time to time. Is one reason I don't own a tortoise that will outlive me 3-4 generations. Is not fair to the animal.

EDIT: I don't have a problem with breeders and hope that this doesn't offend anyone who does. I respect your decision. This is my decision for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaust

Most people wouldn't even have this thought process with dogs/cats. You never have to justify why you wouldn't breed an animal. I think more folks should have to justify why they're choosing to breed animals.....

---

Totally agree! I'm happy to see a thread like this, as I think many herp owners (especially new owners) become enamored with the prospects of breeding
their pets when they keep reading all about others breeding their animals on forums such as this. It's far more "contagious" than it ought to be and it's a
good thing to highlight the downsides of breeding every so often.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Totally agree! I'm happy to see a thread like this, as I think many herp owners (especially new owners) become enamored with the prospects of breeding
their pets when they keep reading all about others breeding their animals on forums such as this. It's far more "contagious" than it ought to be and it's a
good thing to highlight the downsides of breeding every so often.

---

This is why I created this thread. I could have easily kept the decision to myself. Would like some breeders to chime in on their thoughts as well. I know breeding can be rewarding.

I've never had much desire to breed. I see how most people keep their animals and for how long, that's a big deciding factor as snakes are very long lived and can have large clutches, ethics, I'm not going to sell to anyone I wouldn't trust with my own snakes, it's a pretty short list. The second reason is hassle/expense vs simply buying what I want. Buying all the cages and equipment and snakes to eventually reach my goal in 5-10 years if all goes well and dealing with everything that goes into breeding and selling, idk seems like a ton of stuff I don't want to do at all. Someone else is already doing it so why not let them? I've never been much of a diy'er type though. I got all my snakes by 30 for the same reason as you Sky and it's also why I don't have turtles although I love them. I worry too much lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyrivers

So after doing much research and looking at numerous animals across several species a few things comes to mind.

1) All my animals are pets. This means that I take them out and spend time with them almost daily. If I start breeding then the time I have to care for each animal is shortened.

2) Housing quality and cost. The more animals I have, the less room and money I have to put towards making larger, quality enclosures for my animals. I have plans to build much larger more natural enclosures for Rainbow and Monty (housed separately). They need room to exercise and roam about to stay healthy and happy. I want to create more natural enclosures for my Ball pythons and RTB as well. I want to provide a quality of life for them.

3) Need for breeding? With all that is available and being breed, I can find almost anything that I desire morph wise. So many people are already doing it. I don't need to sell them to pay for the ones I already have. What if they don't sell (unintentional collection growth)?

4) Cost of feeding. Can I afford it? Yes but it does go up.

So Here is the question. For those who don't breed, why did you choose not to?

The future is not written and I might one day change my mind.

---

Its not all black and white, either ;)
There is or could be a lot in between..

All my animals are pets, yet, I have bred them (once) and plan on breeding again. It didn't change a thing about "quality time" since I only keep a small number of animals. There is a difference between breeding large scale for profit, or small scale as a hobby/passion. EITHER one can be done right, or wrong. So can pet ownership without breeding.


Housing and other costs are once again not a consideration. I keep my animals the same way, either way. I have kept Ball Pythons in all kinds of enclosures over the years, closely observed and very much loved. I find Ball Pythons doing exceptionally well in a good rack system and prefer to keep this species that way. I have and still would keep them this way even if not breeding. I DO have the room for big cages and I DO have the finances. I leave them in their rack system because I feel they benefit from it. The "anthropomorphism thread" in the general herp forum is a good read. I do have one display cage for a large male, but that setup is more for "MY" benefit, as I enjoy looking at it. I have no problem with people keeping BP in large elaborate setups as long as the basic needs are met. Long story short, housing is not what would keep me from breeding, as I keep a small collection.

There is no need for breeding. We say this now, but without the breeding that has been done, we would not have the animals we do. And most certainly not at those prices. I still remember when all you could get pretty much were WC BP or, if lucky, Captive born in Africa and then imported. Keeping BP's was a lot more challenging. Will the market suffer without the smaller breeders? Probably not, not at this point. Lots of people are fly-by's, they get into it for "profit" and quickly find out there is no quick or big money to be made easily.

Cost of feeding is a consideration. Again, if you want to go large, the cost goes up. That is why most large scale breeders breed their own rodents. More mess, more work, but again, if you do it right, they pay for themselves. Like with everything else, it can be done right, or wrong. Small scale breeders, hobbyist or people doing this out of a passion usually do not have a much larger cost. You usually find a good feeder source or buy frozen in bulk.


You wanted views from different sources, so here is mine, from a (very) small hobbyist breeder.

While there was some additional work and cost (one time cost of incubator, etc) the payback was immense. I'm not talking about money. All my babies were placed either free or low price. I was able to be picky about where they went. But the best part ??? To this day, months after placing the last one, I still hear from the former owners. I didn't require that from them, they do it on their own. I have had 4 of the new owners ask me within the last 2 weeks if I have more/new babies. They are THRILLED with their babies, love them, want more. I had a couple people inquire because they know the person owning my babies and they love those snakes.

I get pictures of them growing, and I can see the happiness they bring their new owners.

That is a great feeling.


The reason you go into breeding makes a big difference. Is it "just a job" ? Profit ?
Is it a passion?
Are the animals priority #1 ?

Even though I'm very small time, there are some that have been breeding on a larger scale and for years and still the animals are the priority, the people do it out of passion. Just look at Deborah or others in this forum.

What they do is provide happiness for so many people.

Breeding doesn't always equal less care or attention, esp. if you breed animals that would PREFER to be left alone rather than handled frequently or for large amount of times.

Whether I will breed again, or not, I love my animals and I will take care of them the same way.

For anyone thinking about breeding, take your time, do it right. Most of all, do it out of the love for this hobby and the animals. Breed what you LIKE. What you want to see in your house and hands. Don't think about market, profit and what will sell or not.

I love Desert Ghosts, so that is what I have and possibly will breed. I don't care if they loose "hype" or how much they will sell for. It is what I love.

:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zina10

Its not all black and white, either ;)
There is or could be a lot in between..

All my animals are pets, yet, I have bred them (once) and plan on breeding again. It didn't change a thing about "quality time" since I only keep a small number of animals. There is a difference between breeding large scale for profit, or small scale as a hobby/passion. EITHER one can be done right, or wrong. So can pet ownership without breeding.


Housing and other costs are once again not a consideration. I keep my animals the same way, either way. I have kept Ball Pythons in all kinds of enclosures over the years, closely observed and very much loved. I find Ball Pythons doing exceptionally well in a good rack system and prefer to keep this species that way. I have and still would keep them this way even if not breeding. I DO have the room for big cages and I DO have the finances. I leave them in their rack system because I feel they benefit from it. The "anthropomorphism thread" in the general herp forum is a good read. I do have one display cage for a large male, but that setup is more for "MY" benefit, as I enjoy looking at it. I have no problem with people keeping BP in large elaborate setups as long as the basic needs are met. Long story short, housing is not what would keep me from breeding, as I keep a small collection.

There is no need for breeding. We say this now, but without the breeding that has been done, we would not have the animals we do. And most certainly not at those prices. I still remember when all you could get pretty much were WC BP or, if lucky, Captive born in Africa and then imported. Keeping BP's was a lot more challenging. Will the market suffer without the smaller breeders? Probably not, not at this point. Lots of people are fly-by's, they get into it for "profit" and quickly find out there is no quick or big money to be made easily.

Cost of feeding is a consideration. Again, if you want to go large, the cost goes up. That is why most large scale breeders breed their own rodents. More mess, more work, but again, if you do it right, they pay for themselves. Like with everything else, it can be done right, or wrong. Small scale breeders, hobbyist or people doing this out of a passion usually do not have a much larger cost. You usually find a good feeder source or buy frozen in bulk.


You wanted views from different sources, so here is mine, from a (very) small hobbyist breeder.

While there was some additional work and cost (one time cost of incubator, etc) the payback was immense. I'm not talking about money. All my babies were placed either free or low price. I was able to be picky about where they went. But the best part ??? To this day, months after placing the last one, I still hear from the former owners. I didn't require that from them, they do it on their own. I have had 4 of the new owners ask me within the last 2 weeks if I have more/new babies. They are THRILLED with their babies, love them, want more. I had a couple people inquire because they know the person owning my babies and they love those snakes.

I get pictures of them growing, and I can see the happiness they bring their new owners.

That is a great feeling.


The reason you go into breeding makes a big difference. Is it "just a job" ? Profit ?
Is it a passion?
Are the animals priority #1 ?

Even though I'm very small time, there are some that have been breeding on a larger scale and for years and still the animals are the priority, the people do it out of passion. Just look at Deborah or others in this forum.

What they do is provide happiness for so many people.

Breeding doesn't always equal less care or attention, esp. if you breed animals that would PREFER to be left alone rather than handled frequently or for large amount of times.

Whether I will breed again, or not, I love my animals and I will take care of them the same way.

For anyone thinking about breeding, take your time, do it right. Most of all, do it out of the love for this hobby and the animals. Breed what you LIKE. What you want to see in your house and hands. Don't think about market, profit and what will sell or not.

I love Desert Ghosts, so that is what I have and possibly will breed. I don't care if they loose "hype" or how much they will sell for. It is what I love.

:)

---

If I ever do breed I would have the same attitude about it as you do. Thanks for responding.

Couple of reasons...

This picture of of my "problem child" hatchling. The one that just did NOT want to eat, despite every trick tried, despite eventual assist feeding.
My most challenging one. The one I started thinking just won't make it. But...it did. And once I got this one eating well, I placed her for free, with full disclosure, but knowing that once they eat well, they are just like any other BP. But to me it didn't feel right selling her.

Her owner ADORES her. Loves her to pieces. Lets me know every time she eats, LOL. They couldn't have afforded a nice morph, but they can afford to take care of her well. And look at her now..

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...43760640_n.jpg


And another one, the owner of this one keeps asking me if I have more, they love her dearly and proudly show her off to all friends and family. The friends of this owner have also asked me if I have any more..

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens.../image223.jpeg


http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...e/image41.jpeg


There are a couple of people that have texted me the updates and sadly I forgot to save the pictures they texted. Pictures of healthy, happy babies and proud owners.



I know it doesn't and won't always go well. But many times it does and will. For those it is worth it to me. I'm not saying I'm better then anyone else or that everyone should do this for fun (not profit) only. There is nothing wrong making some money in exchange for all the time, love and effort.

What is important is that it is done right, with highest priority to the animals well being. The larger the operation, the more time and effort it takes to do it right. Some people can do it, others fail. Some fail even when done "small scale". Some can't even keep them well as "pets only".


It CAN be highly rewarding, though, but a lot of thought and planning should go into it, so for that I commend you on your decision. To many jump into this , some for the wrong reasons and quickly become overwhelmed and the care of the animals suffers..

The reason for now is just that I have no time left! All my spare time is being put into my other hobbies (training my puppy for dog sports... which turns out is a lot more time and specific efforts than just raising a pet dog!)
But I totally might try again in the future, when my dog is a mature adult and isn't as time consuming.

I had tried breeding for a clutch a year and a half ago. I was just looking for the experience of breeding, incubating, seeing the little guys pip and then selling them. I also already built an active audience on another site and a couple friends who were interested in buying from my clutch, so it would've been sweet!

The female and my male locked at least 8 times and she never ovulated with me. That said, I still have no idea how to feel for follicles and wasn't sure whether any behavior I observed was developing follicles or just coincidence. Then I sold her for a fairly cheap price to "a breeder" in about March or April 2017 considering she locked with my BEL so many times... and she ovulated 1 month later! LOL.

Turns out the guy didn't even have an incubator and obviously was not a breeder. I can not roll my eyes hard enough.

He got an incubator maybe a week late, and the clutch turned out funny looking! A few BELs and a few odd colored snakes that weren't identifiable as a morph, or definitely were unknown genes. Someone suggested it might have been due to the poor incubation in the beginning and causing defects in their coloration. I actually kind of wish I bought one of them just to see how it would've developed.

Thanks for sharing your wonderful success and happiness here. I love the fact that you love them so much as I do. I just think my focus has shifted to an education aspect. I love taking a few species and showing them to people who would have never thought of being near them and having them walk away with new understanding and love the animals. I have 3-4 more species on my list that I desire to acquire but has to be the right animal within that species that has a good personality to do it with. The "morph" has become less important as finding a good representative of the species to share.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zina10

Couple of reasons...

This picture of of my "problem child" hatchling. The one that just did NOT want to eat, despite every trick tried, despite eventual assist feeding.
My most challenging one. The one I started thinking just won't make it. But...it did. And once I got this one eating well, I placed her for free, with full disclosure, but knowing that once they eat well, they are just like any other BP. But to me it didn't feel right selling her.

Her owner ADORES her. Loves her to pieces. Lets me know every time she eats, LOL. They couldn't have afforded a nice morph, but they can afford to take care of her well. And look at her now..

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...43760640_n.jpg


And another one, the owner of this one keeps asking me if I have more, they love her dearly and proudly show her off to all friends and family. The friends of this owner have also asked me if I have any more..

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach.../image223.jpeg


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...e/image41.jpeg


There are a couple of people that have texted me the updates and sadly I forgot to save the pictures they texted. Pictures of healthy, happy babies and proud owners.



I know it doesn't and won't always go well. But many times it does and will. For those it is worth it to me. I'm not saying I'm better then anyone else or that everyone should do this for fun (not profit) only. There is nothing wrong making some money in exchange for all the time, love and effort.

What is important is that it is done right, with highest priority to the animals well being. The larger the operation, the more time and effort it takes to do it right. Some people can do it, others fail. Some fail even when done "small scale". Some can't even keep them well as "pets only".


It CAN be highly rewarding, though, but a lot of thought and planning should go into it, so for that I commend you on your decision. To many jump into this , some for the wrong reasons and quickly become overwhelmed and the care of the animals suffers..

---

So sad when people misrepresent themselves and the animals suffer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by redshepherd

The reason for now is just that I have no time left! All my spare time is being put into my other hobbies (training my puppy for dog sports... which turns out is a lot more time and specific efforts than just raising a pet dog!)
But I totally might try again in the future, when my dog is a mature adult and isn't as time consuming.

I had tried breeding for a clutch a year and a half ago. I was just looking for the experience of breeding, incubating, seeing the little guys pip and then selling them. I also already built an active audience on another site and a couple friends who were interested in buying from my clutch, so it would've been sweet!

The female and my male locked at least 8 times and she never ovulated with me. That said, I still have no idea how to feel for follicles and wasn't sure whether any behavior I observed was developing follicles or just coincidence. Then I sold her for a fairly cheap price to "a breeder" in about March or April 2017 considering she locked with my BEL so many times... and she ovulated 1 month later! LOL.

Turns out the guy didn't even have an incubator and obviously was not a breeder. I can not roll my eyes hard enough.
He got an incubator maybe a week late, and the clutch turned out funny looking! A few BELs and a few odd colored snakes that weren't identifiable as a morph, or definitely were unknown genes. Someone suggested it might have been due to the poor incubation in the beginning and causing defects in their coloration.

---

this question is worded wierdly and/or comes from a POV of someone who had a change of heart and mind. most often the questions is "Why did u decide to breed?"

i agree w/ some of the replies and def. w/ what Zina said.

anyways Skyrivers i think this is the best decision for you at the moment. but who knows what the future holds, so keep reading, learning and keeping. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyrivers

Thanks for sharing your wonderful success and happiness here. I love the fact that you love them so much as I do. I just think my focus has shifted to an education aspect. I love taking a few species and showing them to people who would have never thought of being near them and having them walk away with new understanding and love the animals. I have 3-4 more species on my list that I desire to acquire but has to be the right animal within that species that has a good personality to do it with. The "morph" has become less important as finding a good representative of the species to share.

---

Before I moved I lived in a city that had a better represented reptile community. We had a lot of fun.
We would often go to wild life parks to hold educational presentations. We had great many people show up and most were so open minded, it was awesome. That is where I had the experience with a autistic little girl. That little girl held my BP for 10 minutes, just sitting still and gazing at that snake with such love in her eyes. She was SO careful. I admit, I was a little nervous but I didn't have the heart not to let her hold Delilah after she held out her hands. I could tell her parents were nervous too, they later told me that the girl could never focus on anything for very long and never sat still. They were afraid the girl would not give the snake back without a tantrum (which was my thought, too), but after the 10 minutes she just quietly handed Delilah back to me. Her parents were blown away by the experience.

I also took my Veterans (2 normal BP's that were used to this and completely at ease, they would eat the same day sometimes) to schools. I was asked by the school administration if I could come spend an hour teaching the children about snakes. It was so awesome. The principal would show up and other teachers too, and the only ones afraid were the adults, LOL. The kids were great. I taught them about snakes in general (mostly about how great of creatures they are but to not approach wild ones, and why). The best part was at the end, when we have "questions and answers". I had one boy ask me what would happen if I took off my shoe and socks and stuck my foot in front of the snakes face.

.... I had to admit, I never tried that !!! :rofl:


There is so much that is rewarding about keeping these animals. Whether breeding or not, always have fun with it and do it right :)

To breed or not to breed?

I first got in this because there was no way I could have afford a 10K pet so I made it instead, I was instantly hooked.

I have Pets that do not breed and never will, I have pets that are breeders and I have breeders that would I fall in the livestock category (they are not pet and may be sold at any time when no longer needed for some projects just like any hatchling being produce). Ultimately regardless of what category they fit in even hatchlings for sale they all have the same level of care and attention but the emotional attachment is different.
That is why I chose to have a small permanent collection (under 60) and have no interest in large scale commercial breeding.

Does it cost money? Yes

Is it a easy get rich type thing? No, most people will actually fail to make a profit

Is it easy? No it’s a lot of work not to mention the heartache when something goes wrong, dealing with nightmare customers etc

Is it rewarding? It is so long one can keep the passion alive, over the years I have known many people that just got burned out, too many projects not allowing them to see them fully come to terms, too many animals, not enough time etc

I am glad to see that you really gave it a serious thought, sadly too many people jump right in even though they own their very first snake for less than a month.

"Breeders" can be pets also.
In the options above as a reason not to breed says "quality of husbandry" implying the breeders do not provide as good husbandry as pet only keepers?
I don't think that was your intention? Generally, in order to have animals successfully reproduce, husbandry will need to be on point.

I have bred my pets here and there, more often now than in the past. Anyways, kudos to all pet-only keepers! Without you there wouldn't be much of a hobby to provide CBB babies for.
:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyrivers

.... I just think my focus has shifted to an education aspect. I love taking a few species and showing them to people who would have never thought of being near them and having them walk away with new understanding and love the animals.....

---

Some years back I bred several kinds each year, & for several years thereafter...as a hobbyist only, no desire to be seriously commercial about it.
Rat snakes (Everglades & Amelanistic black rat snakes, Trans Pecos, Okeetee corns & Taiwan Beautys) kings (california kings, MBKs) & rosy boas.
The rosy boas I really didn't want to breed but had little choice- I took in an older one from a nature museum that had "other plans", very long story.

Anyway, I never bred more than a couple kinds per year...it's a lot of extra work raising snakes, no matter how much I loved doing it, & I would never
sell (or place) a snake that doesn't have a good feeding record, that I'm sure are easy for a new owner. Then comes the really hard part of parting with
them, worrying...knowing that no matter how careful you are, not everyone is as responsible an owner as they present themselves to be, or that things
'change'. I just like snakes (& all animals) too much I guess, they are all special to me, especially when I've seen them hatch or live born. So I really
don't miss breeding snakes...my snakes are my pets.

For many years I've done my best to educate others about snakes...all kinds of snakes & in many venues. As Skyrivers said, the feeling of seeing so
many people who've always feared or "hated" snakes, actually change their minds when they can safely meet some of mine...it's priceless. So for me,
that's my preferred way to contribute...not by breeding more, but making sure that the snakes we have in the wild, as well as the ones people choose
to keep as pets, are respected, valued & properly cared for. Doesn't matter what age, little children to grandparents have held my snakes & found out
they aren't scary or out to 'get' them, that instead they are just shy & beautiful creatures to appreciate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

I am glad to see that you really gave it a serious thought, sadly too many people jump right in even though they own their very first snake for less than a month.

---

I agree and I know people were worried about all the questions I was asking but how can I make an educated decision if I don't ask. Also thanks for shairing for people who read this to learn also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

"Breeders" can be pets also.
In the options above as a reason not to breed says "quality of husbandry" implying the breeders do not provide as good husbandry as pet only keepers?
I don't think that was your intention? Generally, in order to have animals successfully reproduce, husbandry will need to be on point.

I have bred my pets here and there, more often now than in the past. Anyways, kudos to all pet-only keepers! Without you there wouldn't be much of a hobby to provide CBB babies for.
:)

---

I think you missed the mark on the husbandry question here. The point was, the more you have the more you have to provide housing for. Almost every breeder I have seen use racks. I am not to judge of that is bad or good. BPs are good with racks and most thrive in them. For me... my other species I carry like the retics and boa would enjoy room to move about some. I would have less resources to provide for them if they were breeders for me so I made a personal choice and that played a factor in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

For many years I've done my best to educate others about snakes...all kinds of snakes & in many venues. As Skyrivers said, the feeling of seeing so
many people who've always feared or "hated" snakes, actually change their minds when they can safely meet some of mine...it's priceless. So for me,
that's my preferred way to contribute...not by breeding more, but making sure that the snakes we have in the wild, as well as the ones people choose
to keep as pets, are respected, valued & properly cared for. Doesn't matter what age, little children to grandparents have held my snakes & found out
they aren't scary or out to 'get' them, that instead they are just shy & beautiful creatures to appreciate.

---

It is also nice to take my large girls and let people who love them but cant afford a large animal have the fun of holding one and watching them grow. I have always had a huge passion for animals. I would have a zoo if I could afford it and do it properly. I started as a young child learning about animals and have worked hard to educate myself through the years on many animals and am a biologist at heart. My job has none thing to do with animals now though but the education continues. I wanted to be a Marine Biologist when I first went to collage. My parents discouraged me till I dropped out year 3 and went into the Army. Now (2 degrees later) I work on medical equipment and have animals as a hobby.

You are correct in a way. I did give it some serous thought. The sparkley and cool was very incising but gave way to education and respect for what breeders go through. I so drool over GTPs. I would have to get one raised by someone to adulthood and give testimony about it being calm and ok with being handled or at least demonstrated. They are so lovely to look at and such HUGE personalities. Don't care what morph. Just want a good pet. Oh well. One day I might make the plunge and try raising one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ax01

this question is worded wierdly and/or comes from a POV of someone who had a change of heart and mind. most often the questions is "Why did u decide to breed?"

i agree w/ some of the replies and def. w/ what Zina said.

anyways Skyrivers i think this is the best decision for you at the moment. but who knows what the future holds, so keep reading, learning and keeping. ;)

---

I have bred in the past and produced animals I couldn't have bought straight out the gate.

But then I got a new job with a lot of traveling time and realised I really don't have enough hours in the day to commit to it. :(

I have even had to slim down my collection to keep things manageable so, for the forseeable future, I don't really have the necessary resources to breed and no desire to compromise the husbandry to try and make it feasable.

Hopefully in the future I will have the time again and may begin to expand and consider breeding a few clutches again - but in the meantime I am happy to keep the snakes I have and can cope with. :cool:


dr del

I have a few breeders but the vast majority of my snakes are pets.

I'd actually like to move into breeding species that are less common and/or threatened in the wild, like my Savu pythons, or Eastern Indigoes eventually.

Honestly, I just haven't felt much need to for the species I currently keep. There are so many great breeders unless I got something rare I just don't see the need to bother. I'm fine keeping my snakes as pets.

I might breed one day but until that day possibly comes and i am prepared ahead of time with all the baby racks, nest egg of cash for possible complications of mom or one of the babies or other possible unforseen emergencies and most of all, having snakes that are plenty old enough to breed (not powerfed or fast grown ones), all my snakes are just 'pets'. Really the only one i would be interested in breeding would be Gina who has about 6 more years before i even think about, Louie who has probably a couple years to go but i would need a 6+ year old female for him, and Pat who has at least 2-3 years to go assuming i can tell from his shed that he is male. If he turns out to be a she, then again, probably 6 years. And finally maybe Dottie one day as i do like pied BPs. She would have about 2 years to go still as i have had her for about 4.5 years now. I personally would not want to breed any female under 6+ years old.

When I first got into balls and kept my single boy for a while I was like "wow! breeding will be so easy! let's start today! I'll make so much money!" or something like that. And then I really looked into and I realized there's a lot more behind it. I still thought it'd be so much fun, and was still daydreaming about those days. And then a realization hit me like a brick. For one, there are so many risks involved with it, and I don't think I could be mentally prepared for the loss of those animals (I'm just that much of a softy lol), I'd cry my eyes out everytime a hatchling didn't make it. And feeding costs :O:tombstone And so much more. I'm fine with keeping my animals as pets :DAnd like someone mentioned, the BP market is huge! I think we have enough breeders already :) In short, I'm just too soft

My snake is my pet. I'd rather not burden her with breeding. And I don't think the world needs any more Ball Pythons right now.

When you breed snakes that are also your pets, you also add an element of risk to the life of your female, no matter how healthy you think she is.
Snakes can have unforeseen problems, like egg-binding. Hatchlings can turn up with problems too & be unsaleable, what then? And while this may
not apply to BPs (?), some snakes have no "off switch" when it comes to laying fertile eggs: a corn snake that I once bred many years ago kept laying
healthy clutches of fertile eggs for 3 years thereafter with no further breeding. So breeding snakes can open a real "can of worms", no pun intended. :snake:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

When you breed snakes that are also your pets, you also add an element of risk to the life of your female, no matter how healthy you think she is.
Snakes can have unforeseen problems, like egg-binding. Hatchlings can turn up with problems too & be unsaleable, what then? And while this may
not apply to BPs (?), some snakes have no "off switch" when it comes to laying fertile eggs: a corn snake that I once bred many years ago kept laying
healthy clutches of fertile eggs for 3 years thereafter with no further breeding. So breeding snakes can open a real "can of worms", no pun intended. :snake:

---

All very good points. I wonder if there are some snakes that can have issues if they don't breed?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyrivers

All very good points. I wonder if there are some snakes that can have issues if they don't breed?

---

None that I know of specifically, but certainly some individuals can.

See my post: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ion-about-eggs
(regarding my late rosy boa)

I am a breeder. I can relate to all of the pros and cons of both decisions. There is no right or wrong in any case as its up to the individual to make the decision that's right for him or her. It's important to educate yourself in the aspects of keeping and breeding snakes, geckos, leechies, mice, rats and or whatever animal/s you are considering. It helps to study the market as well so you are breeding a species, morph, animal that has a demand. Most of all, there should be a passion to do it and or some aspect that is heart driven and interesting about the breeding. For me, it's the unparalleled sense of accomplishment in being sucessful with the eggs, babies of the species. It's a attitude also though, that is also needed to be sucessful that must accompany the passion. You can't be concerned too much about the cons of breeding but focus instead on the pros. Reptile reproduction truly never gets old especially on the "conservation" level. Good luck on whatever decision you stay with.

I am considering breeding my tortoises and possibly my Bp once each. I'm only considering doing so because I'm defaulting to assuming that I wont be able to rehome any offspring. If I cant rehome or sell any of them then I will just have larger collections of those species. Planning for the worst case scenario and using that as a basis seems reasonable.

I should mention that my tortoises are covered by CITES so anyone who legally wants to purchase one has to get paperwork showing they were bred in the country. If I do breed them then I'm providing a legal source of pets for other people and hopefully can reduce the number of animals being removed from the wild. This is an aspect about breeding that hasn't been mentioned yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vipera Berus

I should mention that my tortoises are covered by CITES so anyone who legally wants to purchase one has to get paperwork showing they were bred in the country. If I do breed them then I'm providing a legal source of pets for other people and hopefully can reduce the number of animals being removed from the wild. This is an aspect about breeding that hasn't been mentioned yet.

---

Correct and it's why I want to breed my savu pythons and dumerils boas. Unfortunately the populations of both species are taking a beating in the wild, and one day the captive specimens may be all that are left.

I don't breed my lizards simply because I feel that too much of the reptile hobby has become obsessed with breeding. I am not against selective breeding, like in order to preserve a species that is critically endangered in the wild. No, what I am talking about is EVERYONE jumping on the "breeding bandwagon" and muddling the gene pool just because the hobby is dictating breed breed breed!!! There's a favorite meme of mine that says: Little Known Fact: It is Possible To Enjoy Keeping Reptiles Without Breeding Them.

Reptiles are still seen in such a negative light by people that I think education needs to be emphasized even more so than breeding. But to each their own.

Just my .02
Rant over
Thanks guys

I think is wonderful that people breed for the right reasons. I am grateful for the people who breed the snakes I currently have and made them accessible and cheaper to own. I also love that people breed for repopulation of endangered species. It was a personal choice for me not to. I think for me it would limit the amount of different species I could own. I would be so picky with the offspring and who received them that I would just wind up keeping them. I have to admit that having the experience just once would be both educational and rewarding.

Thanks for everyone for taking part in this discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by monty_python9

I don't breed my lizards simply because I feel that too much of the reptile hobby has become obsessed with breeding. I am not against selective breeding, like in order to preserve a species that is critically endangered in the wild. No, what I am talking about is EVERYONE jumping on the "breeding bandwagon" and muddling the gene pool just because the hobby is dictating breed breed breed!!! There's a favorite meme of mine that says: Little Known Fact: It is Possible To Enjoy Keeping Reptiles Without Breeding Them.

Reptiles are still seen in such a negative light by people that I think education needs to be emphasized even more so than breeding. But to each their own.

Just my .02
Rant over
Thanks guys

---

Well said