Mites :(

So it turns out that Clark, our first BP that we got at Tinley in March, has mites. :( He shed a couple of days ago, and that's when we discovered them. I didn't think mites were going to be an issue for him since he's been eating great and hasn't soaked at all in his water dish.

I'm really hoping we caught them early, but here is how we've addressed them so far. I'd appreciate any feedback on whether we should do anything else or if I've missed something.

- Removed all substrate via vacuum from cages. Cleaned cages with diluted bleach solution and put down paper towels as cage liners.
- Soaked each snake in warm water with a little dish soap.
- Ordered Provent-a-Mite and Natural Chemistry Mite Spray (these arrived today).
- Soaked all cage items in hot water and bleach, rinsed thoroughly, air dried.
- Now that we have the mite sprays, we are following directions for treatment (ie, putting cages back together before using PAM). We'll treat everyone and all cages.

With the way our house is setup, it's not really feasible to quarantine in different rooms, and most of our snakes were acquired in a relatively short span of each other. (And admittedly I had no idea about quarantining snakes when we got Clark.)

Is there anything else I should be doing? We currently use ReptiBark for substrate - is this safe or should I use something else? I'm assuming Clark brought the mites in because we've seen no sign on other snakes so far, but I'm also irrationally paranoid that it might have been from his substrate.

Thank you!

Also, we will obviously go to an exotic vet if we feel Clark or anyone else's condition is declining or if we can't get a handle on the mites ourselves. :)

Sorry for your bad luck! You should be keeping the snakes on white paper towels for some time to come, as mites tend to come back in generational waves. You need
to keep checking & re-checking.

If your Repti Bark was near any snakes that now have mites, you might want to bake it or toss it, out of an abundance of caution (in case some mites drifted into it).

When you soak your snakes in mild soapy water (like Ivory), use warmish water & stay with them for 20-30 minutes to make sure the mites drown. But, they can still
survive on the snake's face where you cannot soak, so keep in mind that while this helps, it's just part of the solution. It helps get rid of many mites quickly, but not all.

Make sure that NO bleach smell remains on any hides...& never use bleach on anything porous (like wood/branches) because the fumes are toxic & will not
come out. (actually, I think most people throw out any cage decor that's porous...it's asking for trouble, mites hiding in crevices?)

Happy to say I haven't ever had to use Provent A Mite so I'll let those members who have give you pointers on that, except to say that it's important to follow
the directions carefully, otherwise it can harm your snake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Sorry for your bad luck! You should be keeping the snakes on white paper towels for some time to come, as mites tend to come back in generational waves. You need
to keep checking & re-checking.

If your Repti Bark was near any snakes that now have mites, you might want to bake it or toss it, out of an abundance of caution (in case some mites drifted into it).

When you soak your snakes in mild soapy water (like Ivory), use warmish water & stay with them for 20-30 minutes to make sure the mites drown. But, they can still
survive on the snake's face where you cannot soak, so keep in mind that while this helps, it's just part of the solution. It helps get rid of many mites quickly, but not all.

Make sure that NO bleach smell remains on any hides...& never use bleach on anything porous (like wood/branches) because the fumes are toxic & will not
come out. (actually, I think most people throw out any cage decor that's porous...it's asking for trouble, mites hiding in crevices?)

Happy to say I haven't ever had to use Provent A Mite so I'll let those members who have give you pointers on that, except to say that it's important to follow
the directions carefully, otherwise it can harm your snake.

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Thank you! We did toss anything wooden or porous, thankfully that was just a couple of items. I haven't noticed anything near Clark's eyes or pits, but definitely on the rest of his body.

My one question on the PAM is that it says to use with substrate, not on a bare bottom enclosure. So we added new substrate back into his cage before treatment, but I'd feel better treating the cages with paper towels as liners if that's safe to do with PAM?

You do not want to use a natural substrate when treating for mites, there are just too many places for them to hide, avoid the insecticide, and lay eggs. Use newspaper, spray the PAM on the newspaper, let it dry, and line the enclosures with it. Keep a supply of treated and dried paper on hand for when your snake makes a mess.

I've had to deal with mites a few times, so far they weren't terribly hard to get rid of. My procedure is as follows...

Toss substrate and soak hides and other cage furniture in scalding hot soapy water for at least an hour, completely submerged. Do the same with the tank or tub and scrub the hell out of it.

Spray snake down with reptile relief spray and allow the snake to remain wet for at least 15min.

Set up clean cage with hide, water bowl, and paper towel substrate and add snake.

Treat snake and repeat cleaning for tank and furniture once a week for a month.

So far this has worked for me.

Someone linked this video for me the last time I had a mite problem, and it's so simple to do. Re-apply the frontline to the snake after 2 weeks. Be sure to wait until the snake is completely dry before placing it back in the enclosure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwCAuhSVRV4

I also had PAM to spray all over nearby furniture and floors and outside the enclosures. I caught the mites really early, so I didn't find any dead bodies, but the mite issue was resolved doing both these.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

Someone linked this video for me the last time I had a mite problem, and it's so simple to do.

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You beat me to it Red :gj:

Please forgive my skepticism, but how SAFE is Fipronil on snakes? They are very different, cold-blooded & typically much smaller than the dogs & cats for which
this product (Frontline spray for fleas & ticks on dogs & cats) was made. Just because an animal survives a treatment does not necessarily mean that it will not
become sick in 6 mos or a year with cancer or other related disease process...how long has this been used on snakes that have survived long-term? This is the
first time I've heard of anyone using Frontline spray on snakes.

Thank you everyone! While I read about using Frontline spray in my research, I'll stick with the Natural Chemistry product and PAM for now.

I think what we'll do this weekend is take the substrate back out of Clark's cage and treat with PAM and paper towels. Fingers crossed!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Please forgive my skepticism, but how SAFE is Fipronil on snakes? They are very different, cold-blooded & typically much smaller than the dogs & cats for which
this product (Frontline spray for fleas & ticks on dogs & cats) was made. Just because an animal survives a treatment does not necessarily mean that it will not
become sick in 6 mos or a year with cancer or other related disease process...how long has this been used on snakes that have survived long-term? This is the
first time I've heard of anyone using Frontline spray on snakes.

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I googled "fipronil on reptiles" and it's been tested on snakes since at least 2005 with 0.25% fipronil. I didn't find any extensive research on 0.25% fipronil, but the conclusions overall are it can be used on snakes with acceptable safety level and is a known treatment.

I'm glad to know that...I haven't had a snake with mites in several decades (& only 2, ever) so I must admit I didn't search for the latest fipronil uses.

FWIW, I'm not a fan of pesticides in general...I do organic gardening & the only pesticide I own is wasp spray for when they nest in my gate & gang up on
me when I try to enter or leave. I don't even use pesticide when ants invade...I use less toxic ways to persuade them to go elsewhere. (-it takes some time
but they do learn) 'Cause really, all this stuff ends up doing collateral damage to the web of life, leaching into ground water, & coming back to 'bite us'.

Stop trying to use internet remedies on snakes. Use what is recommended, follow the instructions and so long as you don't have resistant mites then you are good. Mites do not survive water baths so you can soak your snakes to get adults and nymphs off and provent-a-mite and natural chemistry to treat the enclosure and the snake itself.

Don't use olive oil or crisco or topical flea treatment for dogs or RID. You wouldn't put frontline on yourself to prevent fleas so don't use it on your snake for mites.

Realize no one here is a qualified herpetologist or exotic vet so when in doubt, ignore the internet and refer to people who's job it is to treat your animals.

I feel your pain. I purchased my Red Tail Boa and fortunately, someone contacted me within an hour to let me know it and another snake had mites. I've been using plastic tubs as homes for now and use fresh cheap aspen bedding (she likes to burrow) every 2-3 days as well as a bit of Natural Chemistry. I spray the plastic tubs with fairly powerful germ killers (like Lysol) and wash them repeatedly before reuse. It's been a couple of weeks now and I can no longer find mites on her when I let her run through my hands (rubbing off the NC spray and mites). However, I occasionally find a dead mite in the bedding and will continue this until I feel there are none possibly left. She will stay in quarantine and get fresh bedding for a bit after I stop with the spray to make sure none were left behind.

Hopefully it helps keep your spirits up and your mite problem goes away. This is also my first experience with them, so if I am doing something wrong, I would like to know too. I was told to keep up this process for 90 days, but it feels excessive (90 days) based on research.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDA

Stop trying to use internet remedies on snakes. Use what is recommended, follow the instructions and so long as you don't have resistant mites then you are good. Mites do not survive water baths so you can soak your snakes to get adults and nymphs off and provent-a-mite and natural chemistry to treat the enclosure and the snake itself.

Don't use olive oil or crisco or topical flea treatment for dogs or RID. You wouldn't put frontline on yourself to prevent fleas so don't use it on your snake for mites.

Realize no one here is a qualified herpetologist or exotic vet so when in doubt, ignore the internet and refer to people who's job it is to treat your animals.

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Sometimes the internet has something called studies, performed for veterinary info.

https://www.vin.com/apputil/content/...767&id=3854376

The internet also includes this forum, which is shared knowledge and discussion from experienced keepers and breeders. I'm sure you learned a lot about husbandry and remedies from the internet yourself.

Vets are obviously a must for illness, but when it's something as straightforward as mites, known remedies are commonly shared online.

Using "I wouldn't use it on myself" also isn't scientific, because we are not reptiles.

I'd personally never use Pam or frontline with snakes, I've heard of many "sudden deaths" occurring during use. I highly suspect that certain species of snake have a lower tolerance to them than others, but I've had success in treating mites without them, so i dont take that risk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alter-Echo

I'd personally never use Pam or frontline with snakes, I've heard of many "sudden deaths" occurring during use. I highly suspect that certain species of snake have a lower tolerance to them than others, but I've had success in treating mites without them, so i dont take that risk.

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And the first goal of medical treatment is "first, do no harm". I'm with you, Alter-Echo. :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alter-Echo

I'd personally never use Pam or frontline with snakes, I've heard of many "sudden deaths" occurring during use. I highly suspect that certain species of snake have a lower tolerance to them than others, but I've had success in treating mites without them, so i dont take that risk.

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Not even PAM just in the enclosure? We're obviously not using it on Clark, just his cage. I thought PAM was kind of a gold standard for eradicating mites in habitats? I'm still new at all of this and definitely don't want to endanger any of our snakes...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDA

Stop trying to use internet remedies on snakes. Use what is recommended, follow the instructions and so long as you don't have resistant mites then you are good. Mites do not survive water baths so you can soak your snakes to get adults and nymphs off and provent-a-mite and natural chemistry to treat the enclosure and the snake itself.

Don't use olive oil or crisco or topical flea treatment for dogs or RID. You wouldn't put frontline on yourself to prevent fleas so don't use it on your snake for mites.

Realize no one here is a qualified herpetologist or exotic vet so when in doubt, ignore the internet and refer to people who's job it is to treat your animals.

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I'm not sure if this was directed at me, but by PAM I mean Provent-a-Mite, not the aerosol baking spray...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alter-Echo

I'd personally never use Pam or frontline with snakes, I've heard of many "sudden deaths" occurring during use. I highly suspect that certain species of snake have a lower tolerance to them than others, but I've had success in treating mites without them, so i dont take that risk.

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If there has been reports of sudden death it makes me wonder if instructions were not followed properly? Out of curiosity do you have any links to these incidents we could look at to better access the situation?

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Originally Posted by MissterDog

If there has been reports of sudden death it makes me wonder if instructions were not followed properly? Out of curiosity do you have any links to these incidents we could look at to better access the situation?

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Your hunch on that may be correct, or mostly so. While I'm very hesitant to use any sort of pesticide for any purpose, I will say that I remember reading an account or 2 on another forum about the supposed side-effects of using PAM (Provent A Mite), but in each case, the owner had NOT followed the instructions to the letter, & had returned their snake to a slightly damp cage, whereupon the snake suffered neurological issues & nearly died. So any time the subject of mites comes up, I generally repeat the forum-accepted solutions to use PAM (along with soapy water, etc), but I always say to follow directions very carefully & that it's only for the cage, not to be used on the animal. I suspect that not everyone reads all the instructions though? :( I also don't doubt that some animals really ARE more susceptible to injury by PAM though. I would think that some species may be more inclined to be harmed, or maybe just the smaller, younger individuals?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MissterDog

If there has been reports of sudden death it makes me wonder if instructions were not followed properly? Out of curiosity do you have any links to these incidents we could look at to better access the situation?

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One was from this forum recently, poor guy (or girl) lost a woma python suddenly and of unknown cause during a mite infestation using pam. I would normally consider this an unfortunate coincidence, but I have heard a few first hand accounts from keepers I have known over the years and have read online accounts of this. I will see if I can find any and I will post them when I do.

Here is the first one I found in a quick search, I can probably find many more.

http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/thamn...an-killer.html

Now, this is not pam, but its another commonly used treatment for mites, and the main ingredient is the exact same thing.

http://thetegu.com/showthread.php?83...lling-my-snake

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alter-Echo

Now, this is not pam, but its another commonly used treatment for mites, and the main ingredient is the exact same thing.

http://thetegu.com/showthread.php?83...lling-my-snake

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Oh geez, that's so sad. But they used it ON the reptiles as well as the cages...:( So no wonder!
I've seen that product (NIX or RID) commonly recommended on another forum too, in the past, for getting rid of snake mites.
Seems like it's just SO easy for the instructions (use on cage only, must dry thoroughly) to get lost in translation online.

Thing is, in the first link I posted they apparently followed instructions and it killed the snake anyway, and with many others I've spoken to in person it was the same way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alter-Echo

Thing is, in the first link I posted they apparently followed instructions and it killed the snake anyway, and with many others I've spoken to in person it was the same way

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I don't doubt that at all. It's just like some humans cannot take certain medications, they react badly to it for whatever reason. When it comes to chemicals used on
any living things, less is best.

Just found mites on one of my snakes as well. I'm moving everyone in that rack to paper towels and giving my gravid female a new container with fresh eco-earth as I don't want to risk it. Infected male is going into quarantine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Please forgive my skepticism, but how SAFE is Fipronil on snakes? ... This is the
first time I've heard of anyone using Frontline spray on snakes.

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With due respect, just because it is the first time you have heard about it does not mean it is something new. There were articles dating back to the '90s in Reptiles magazine written by vets on the use of Frontline for treating mites and if you listen to the MPR episode where SBK (from the vid above) spoke on this topic you will find out that he learned about it from a vet. Off label usage of medications by vets when it comes to herps is actually pretty common.

If you've owned snakes for any length of time, chances are you've had mites at one time or another or if you haven't you will. My process was this (and it took me the better part of a full day with my collection). I set up two tubs for soaking (one with some dawn dish soap and the other just plain water) and soaked each snake for 15 minutes in each tub. While the snakes soaked I washed all hides and water bowls in hot soapy water. The tub was cleaned with bleach and water. I then sprayed the tub down with PAM and let it dry completely. All racks were also cleaned with bleach and water and sprayed with PAM (snakes were in different room at the time). I say this about PAM (Provent-A-Mite) as I have used it successfully twice during my time owning/breeding Balls. I followed the directions to a T and made sure each and every tub was completely dry before I put the paper towels, hides and water bowls back in. I had no issues with any of my snakes. Everyone is still healthy and doing quite well. I'm not saying anyone whose snake died as a result of using PAM did or did not follow the instructions but from my personal experience, once dry it is no longer a threat to your snakes health.

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Originally Posted by PghBall

once dry it is no longer a threat to your snakes health.

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What about using a spray bottle to raise humidity? Wouldn't this dissolve the PAM residue and possibly harm your snakes?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jaust

What about using a spray bottle to raise humidity? Wouldn't this dissolve the PAM residue and possibly harm your snakes?

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I rarely use a spray bottle as I keep mine in tubs and the water bowls keep the humidity pretty high. I have had snakes spill their water and had moisture all though the tubs (after allowing proper drying time after PAM application) and never once had a snake start acting strangely (neurologically) or otherwise. I'm talking within 24 hours of treatment they've spilled their water.

Thank you everyone for your continued input. We did end up treating our snakes with Natural Chemistry Reptile Spray and the enclosures with PAM. I'm knocking on wood here, but I'm hopeful that we caught it early, because after several days of being on paper towels, there has been no evidence of mites on any other snake, in any other enclosure, or in any of the other water dishes. 🤞