Clutch Division Opinions

I would like to get opinions from you all on this. Details are:

I have a friend who purchased 1 of the females of my 11 BP's. I have kept and fed and cleaned up behind his snake along with my animals ever since he got it mostly due to the fact that he doesn't have his own place yet and his parent won't allow the animal there.
He does buy the FT rats and they are here in my freezer so it really isn't costing me any more money to keep 1 more animal, just some of my time.
Once his female is breeding size, he will want to pair her with one of my males. He has made this clear.
His Female is only 320 grams now so it looks like I will be caring for her for quite a while before this takes place.
The incubation will happen here as well.

What do you all think would be fair as a percentage of the eggs to be his vs mine. I want to be fair to him since he did buy the female but I kind of feel like he has this very easy. One time purchase, no work, reap some reward at some point in the future.

Even though her genes are not in my interests for my wanted projects, they are genes that I would otherwise not have in the collection.

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Originally Posted by Bistem

I would like to get opinions from you all on this. Details are:

I have a friend who purchased 1 of the females of my 11 BP's. I have kept and fed and cleaned up behind his snake along with my animals ever since he got it mostly due to the fact that he doesn't have his own place yet and his parent won't allow the animal there.
He does buy the FT rats and they are here in my freezer so it really isn't costing me any more money to keep 1 more animal, just some of my time.
Once his female is breeding size, he will want to pair her with one of my males. He has made this clear.
His Female is only 320 grams now so it looks like I will be caring for her for quite a while before this takes place.
The incubation will happen here as well.

What do you all think would be fair as a percentage of the eggs to be his vs mine. I want to be fair to him since he did buy the female but I kind of feel like he has this very easy. One time purchase, no work, reap some reward at some point in the future.

Even though her genes are not in my interests for my wanted projects, they are genes that I would otherwise not have in the collection.

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Honestly, If it were me, I would allow him to keep one visual morph (male or female) of his choosing. The rest I would keep/sell. If I was housing, heating, caring for and feeding (I know you said he buys the f/t rats however still my chore) the animal I would want to get some compensation for it. I think your friend should find that more than fair as if it were not for your generosity, they would not have a snake at all.

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Originally Posted by Bistem

I have a friend who purchased 1 of the females of my 11 BP's. I have kept and fed and cleaned up behind his snake along with my animals ever since he got it mostly due to the fact that he doesn't have his own place yet and his parent won't allow the animal there.

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He can't even house the snake and he wants to breed it? Hilarious!

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

He can't even house the snake and he wants to breed it? Hilarious!

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I think he only bought it for the purpose of making some money later.

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Originally Posted by Bistem

I think he only bought it for the purpose of making some money later.

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You can't make money without spending some money - and time and hard work.

Is he planning on caring for the clutch when it comes? or having you care for the babies too?

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Originally Posted by ladywhipple02

You can't make money without spending some money - and time and hard work.

Is he planning on caring for the clutch when it comes? or having you care for the babies too?

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The way it looks, all the work is on me. His female is a Super Pastel, Pinstripe, Chocolate so she is cool since I have nothing else with Chocolate and the super means no normals. He says he will have his own place soon and will take the animal home then but he has been saying that since he got her.

I would invite your friend to the forums. It sounds like hes approaching this from the wrong end, and you are carrying the weight. Im not a breeder so my opinion is based off my personal value of time. As previously mentioned I would offer one baby of his choice and do as you feel necessary with the rest.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Russtix

I would invite your friend to the forums. It sounds like hes approaching this from the wrong end, and you are carrying the weight. Im not a breeder so my opinion is based off my personal value of time. As previously mentioned I would offer one baby of his choice and do as you feel necessary with the rest.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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I appreciate your sentiment. I guess being retired recently, I have a lot of time and I dont see it as being "much" more work but at the same time, I dont want to be taken advantage of either. I also dont want to be an arse when the time comes. I just want to be Fair and I agree that what you suggest seems fair. If I do it that way, that may be all the incentive he needs to step up his game and contribute more or just see 1 baby worth of reward for his investment.

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

He can't even house the snake and he wants to breed it? Hilarious!

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This isn't funny, this is 60% of the community right now. A "Breeder" on IG has like 14 snakes, all housed at his friends, fed by his friend, cared for by his friend but damn it on IG he is the best breeder there is, well at least since 2011 as he claims which would have made him about 13 and has not produced a clutch yet. So this request is common place now which is truly sad because those animals will be sold soon.

I have seen people with Tshirts, pens, jackets, logos and stickers all before they have ever paired their own snakes they got off CL to make millions.

Get a job, move out of mommy's house and be an adult. Why is this so hard these days.

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

This isn't funny, this is 60% of the community right now. A "Breeder" on IG has like 14 snakes, all housed at his friends, fed by his friend, cared for by his friend but damn it on IG he is the best breeder there is, well at least since 2011 as he claims which would have made him about 13 and has not produced a clutch yet. So this request is common place now which is truly sad because those animals will be sold soon.

I have seen people with Tshirts, pens, jackets, logos and stickers all before they have ever paired their own snakes they got off CL to make millions.

Get a job, move out of mommy's house and be an adult. Why is this so hard these days.

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WOW i'm glad i'm not my friend. You dont hold back dude. There isn't anything wrong with stating the cold hard truth. I just had to laugh.

If you're going to be housing both adults, taking time to feed both adults, taking time to incubate all the eggs and then care and feed all the babies (including the possibly dirty work of having to dispose of any that don't make it), then I would say it's fair that he gets to keep his snake, and one visual baby. Maybe the pick of the litter sort of deal?

Do you guys have a contract of any kind? The only reason I'm asking is what happens in the instance that the female becomes ill, or suddenly passes away? Or she becomes egg-bound during the breeding process. Or needs emergency treatment of some kind?

I'm a BIG believer in contractual agreements, especially if you're entering into a business relationship with someone, even if they're a friend, and even if it's a quasi-business relationship.

EDIT: a contract would protect him too, from you taking his snake or simply selling off all the babies, etc. I'm not saying either of you would cheat the other, but it's just nice to have it all buttoned up and legal. That way everyone knows what the deal is, and no one's left hanging without some sort of way to recoup their losses.

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Originally Posted by ElliotNess

This isn't funny, this is 60% of the community right now. A "Breeder" on IG has like 14 snakes, all housed at his friends, fed by his friend, cared for by his friend but damn it on IG he is the best breeder there is, well at least since 2011 as he claims which would have made him about 13 and has not produced a clutch yet. So this request is common place now which is truly sad because those animals will be sold soon.

I have seen people with Tshirts, pens, jackets, logos and stickers all before they have ever paired their own snakes they got off CL to make millions.

Get a job, move out of mommy's house and be an adult. Why is this so hard these days.

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This should be a sticky that all new keepers should have to read before they can post a breeding question. :rofl:

I should have thought of this, buying snakes and have someone else care for them, feed them, breed them great idea. :rolleyes:

Honestly if your friend cannot for whatever reason care for his own snakes he does not need to have more and the animals should not be bred.

Sounds like the subject is heading in a negative direction which was not my intentions. I will be breeding mine and no, I am not a new keeper. This friend used to be a co-worker before I retired and he knew that I kept reptiles and was building up my collection. He wanted to get in on something that he knew I was going to do anyway. It was later that I found out of the intentions for me to do all of the work due to his Mom not letting him have it there.

Mods feel free to shut the thread down if you see it getting out of hand but I do have interest in all of the opinions being voiced here.

i could understand why he can't keep his snake at his house (b/c MOM!) but what is his commitment to his snake and the hobby? does he have an empty enclosure ready to go? does he know basic husbandry? genetics? does he come over to your place to learn the ropes? he just sounds like a future pet owner (which is fine and dandy) and not a hobbyist/breeder at this stage. if u continue w/ the agreement (or contract), i agree w/ others saying he gets pick of the clutch. but he needs to figure his own situation and take care of his own animal first. good luck, keep us updated.

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Originally Posted by Ax01

i could understand why he can't keep his snake at his house (b/c MOM!) but what is his commitment to his snake and the hobby? does he have an empty enclosure ready to go? does he know basic husbandry? genetics? does he come over to your place to learn the ropes? he just sounds like a future pet owner (which is fine and dandy) and not a hobbyist/breeder at this stage. if u continue w/ the agreement (or contract), i agree w/ others saying he gets pick of the clutch. but he needs to figure his own situation and take care of his own animal first. good luck, keep us updated.

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He does have an enclosure but it is one of the Exo-Terra's, the low wide version. It does have the heating pad under it and 3 of the 4 screen sections sealed off with custom cut plexiglass that is hot-glued in place but he hasnt bought a thermostat yet. He knows he needs one. He knows the basics of temp and humidity requirements but has no clue about genetics. He has been to my place ONCE so no, he hasn't learned the ropes. I agree that he needs to spend more time on these missing ingredients and I have made it basically an open invitation for him to come by any time with just a text message notice. He really needs to be here on feeding day which is every Sunday so he cant use the "i have to work that day" excuse.
Believe me, I am regretting the fact that I agreed to this and hope he gets his own place soon but I cant just force the snake out of here. Someone has to care for her.

You guys are nice. Fair to me would be I'll send you pictures of the clutch and if we were really good friends I'll let you see them in person plus a not so gentle discussion on life choices. Granted I don't breed so you breeders might be nicer:)

if it were me he would get no babies from the clutch, he purchased the snake, not the future babies of the snake. If your doing all the work, the clutch is yours. Simple as that. Put it to him that way, if he has an issue with it tell him to get his snake because you wont do work to make him profit.

Your way nicer then me, i would have given my friend a time frame to get his snake otherwise i would re post the snake and refund him half of what he paid for my time and labor.

Kids shouldnt be having the life of multiple babies in their hand, especially with no discipline to learn about them. If he is an adult and living with his mom then he obviously isnt stable enough to breed.

Call me an ass, but its life, nothing is free. If you are still caring for that python by the time its ready to breed, there is a lot more issues with him then I currently see.

I think ladywhipple02 made a very good point about having a contract: situations like this are a "great" way to dissolve friendships. Things can & do go wrong with living creatures.

He does sound very immature to me...I hope he doesn't have a girlfriend, or if he does, she's on the pill. :rolleyes: Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I think ladywhipple02 made a very good point about having a contract: situations like this are a "great" way to dissolve friendships. Things can & do go wrong with living creatures.

He does sound very immature to me...I hope he doesn't have a girlfriend, or if he does, she's on the pill. :rolleyes: Good luck!

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lol love this comment