2 urgent heat tape questions

Sorry to keep asking for help but I thought I would have all these issues sorted before the snake came home and I am having some issues :(

So just 2 questions please and then I think I can truly move forward comfortably.

1. Adding heat tape - can it be taped directly to the bottom of the pvc tank or does there need to be a gap between the tank and the tape?
How do you acheive a gap if needed?

2. My radiant heat panel is not keeping the tank warm enough by itself (therefore adding heat tape); should I buy another thermostat so each has it's own?
Or can I just attach both to the same thermostat and set it for very close to the high temp wanted; placing the probe on the "hot spot" substrate until I am sure they are working together well?

Please help!

Yes, you will need two thermostats. The heat tape will go directly on the bottom of the tank with no gap, and the first tstat probe will be sandwiched between the heat tape and the bottom outside of the tank. It DOES NOT go in the tank. The other probe will go in the tank, controlling the RHP

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could you elaborate more on why your RHP is not working properly?

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Originally Posted by DWRVT

Sorry to keep asking for help but I thought I would have all these issues sorted before the snake came home and I am having some issues :(

So just 2 questions please and then I think I can truly move forward comfortably.

1. Adding heat tape - can it be taped directly to the bottom of the pvc tank or does there need to be a gap between the tank and the tape?
How do you acheive a gap if needed?

2. My radiant heat panel is not keeping the tank warm enough by itself (therefore adding heat tape); should I buy another thermostat so each has it's own?
Or can I just attach both to the same thermostat and set it for very close to the high temp wanted; placing the probe on the "hot spot" substrate until I am sure they are working together well?

Please help!

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Yes, heat tape is applied directly to the outside cage floor. And you dont need a gap as long as you have a t-stat on it which you should anyways. The heat tape will only get as hot as the t-stat is set. I use flexwatt on all my cages and have for years and they have been fine.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...f50a928b_h.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...d4cb01d1_h.jpg


And what do you mean the RHP isnt keeping the cage warm enough? You mean as in ambient temps? If so, heat tape wont help much. It is designed to heat a spot on the floor, not air like RHPs. With that said, you will probably need a bigger/higher wattage RHP. And yes, you need a t-stat for any form of heat you use.

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Originally Posted by Avsha531

Yes, you will need two thermostats. The heat tape will go directly on the bottom of the tank with no gap, and the first tstat probe will be sandwiched between the heat tape and the bottom outside of the tank. It DOES NOT go in the tank. The other probe will go in the tank, controlling the RHP

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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Thank you!! I appreciate your advice! Will have to go track down another thermostat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

could you elaborate more on why your RHP is not working properly?

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My radiant heat panel at full power is not heating up the hot side of the enclosure to above 83 F.
I am measuring this with a temp gun on the substrate directly below the middle of the heat panel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DWRVT

My radiant heat panel at full power is not heating up the hot side of the enclosure to above 83 F.
I am measuring this with a temp gun on the substrate directly below the middle of the heat panel.

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what size/wattage is it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yes, heat tape is applied directly to the outside cage floor. And you dont need a gap as long as you have a t-stat on it which you should anyways. The heat tape will only get as hot as the t-stat is set. I use flexwatt on all my cages and have for years and they have been fine.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...f50a928b_h.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...d4cb01d1_h.jpg


And what do you mean the RHP isnt keeping the cage warm enough? You mean as in ambient temps? If so, heat tape wont help much. It is designed to heat a spot on the floor, not air like RHPs. With that said, you will probably need a bigger/higher wattage RHP. And yes, you need a t-stat for any form of heat you use.

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Thank you for your advice re: the heat tape.
I mean that from all the reading I have done, it appears I need a spot of above 88-92 F for my ball python and I am unable to achieve this with the rhp even on constantly.
I assumed I could try to achieve this hot spot by adding some belly heat.

I have been told that this rhp should be more than enough for my tank so am still debating what to do about the seller possibly giving me the wrong wattage. I paid twice as much as the rhp is worth to buy it from the US and have it shipped here to Canada because I was told these were the best and the seller would know exactly what I needed.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

what size/wattage is it?

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He calls it a PH-115, it says 55 watt.
I was told it should be more than enough for my 24 x 24 x 16 pvc enclosure, even though we have low ambient room temps, so I have no idea what I am doing wrong
Gotta figure out how to get a proper hot spot soon!

Sounds like maybe your ambient room temperature is lower than the seller anticipated. That makes a big difference in how hard the RHP or UTH have to work
at raising the temperature in a cage. Maybe you can exchange it for a higher wattage? You might talk to him??? Since you're in a hurry, ship the larger one
right away, & have yours credited back once he receives it?

How exactly do you have it set up? A 55 watt should be fine for a 24x24x16 cage.

Are you using a temp gun to check the floor? The top of the hide?

Snakes dont need belly heat if they got warm enough ambient on the hot side. You really have 2 choices. I use the cooler ambient temps with a single hot spot via belly heat. The other method is heat the whole cage and just give them a warm spot. The RHP will do that if you use something like a hide under it or a piece of slate or flagstone, anything the RHP can heat up under itself which in turn will radiate heat off the item to warm the air.

Also try to plug the RHP straight into the wall and bypass the t-stat to see if it heats up more. Try a different outlet too. These are all the things Bob at Pro Products told me can affect a RHP. Also put something under the cage to insulate like a piece of plywood.

And I'm not really sure where the 90F hot spot idea came from but none of my snakes like it that hot. I give them a hot spot of 86-88F and the rest of the cage sits around 77-80F depending on the room temp. Most of the time they spend on the cool side or just stretched out in the cage.

But anyways, first thing i would do would be plug the RHP straight in the wall, shove a hide under it and let it run full power for an hour. Then temp gun the top of the hide and look at your temp gauges and see what the ambient temp is on the cool side. Ideally, i would shoot for a 86F or so temp around the RHP with a 78F or so temp on the cool end of the cage. Can be work since you are using a fairly short cage so you dont have much room for a gradient.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Sounds like maybe your ambient room temperature is lower than the seller anticipated. That makes a big difference in how hard the RHP or UTH have to work
at raising the temperature in a cage. Maybe you can exchange it for a higher wattage? You might talk to him??? Since you're in a hurry, ship the larger one
right away, & have yours credited back once he receives it?

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Thank you - I was very honest about having a low ambient room temp and the seller thought he was sending me one that could more than handle my situation.
I am just waiting to hear back from him to see what my options are, super dissapointed this didn't work out as planned :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

How exactly do you have it set up? A 55 watt should be fine for a 24x24x16 cage.

Are you using a temp gun to check the floor? The top of the hide?

Snakes dont need belly heat if they got warm enough ambient on the hot side. You really have 2 choices. I use the cooler ambient temps with a single hot spot via belly heat. The other method is heat the whole cage and just give them a warm spot. The RHP will do that if you use something like a hide under it or a piece of slate or flagstone, anything the RHP can heat up under itself which in turn will radiate heat off the item to warm the air.

Also try to plug the RHP straight into the wall and bypass the t-stat to see if it heats up more. Try a different outlet too. These are all the things Bob at Pro Products told me can affect a RHP. Also put something under the cage to insulate like a piece of plywood.

And I'm not really sure where the 90F hot spot idea came from but none of my snakes like it that hot. I give them a hot spot of 86-88F and the rest of the cage sits around 77-80F depending on the room temp. Most of the time they spend on the cool side or just stretched out in the cage.

But anyways, first thing i would do would be plug the RHP straight in the wall, shove a hide under it and let it run full power for an hour. Then temp gun the top of the hide and look at your temp gauges and see what the ambient temp is on the cool side. Ideally, i would shoot for a 86F or so temp around the RHP with a 78F or so temp on the cool end of the cage. Can be work since you are using a fairly short cage so you dont have much room for a gradient.

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Thank you for your reply, I am unsure what you mean when you say how do I have it set up. I have attached it to one side of the top of the cage as instructed.
Yes - I am using a temp gun to check the floor and the top of the hide. Highest temps I got are 83 and 87. Even though the top of the hide is a little higher, the temp underneath is not.
I understand the hide is absorbing more of the heat but the substrate underneath is still not hot enough.

I do have the cage on plywood. I did speak to Bob and I have had the panel plugged directly into the wall and bypassing the thermostat for over 24 hours - not getting any hotter.

You keep your enclosure cooler than all the care sheets I have read recommend. It's so hard when there are so many people who do things differently. I just want to make sure things and the best I can do for my little guy and I feel like I am failing so far. I wanted to get a bigger enclosure but was told it would likely be too big for him to feel safe.
I will have to do the best I can with this one and wait to see what Bob's next suggestion is about the heat panel.

I don't think you mentioned just how low the ambient air temperatures are in your house or room where the snake cage is, but you might also have to consider
insulating the cage itself...to help keep the heat in. And you really picked a challenge in choosing a BP, a species that needs higher temperatures than many other
possibilities, like a corn snake, that not only require less heat but are more "forgiving" because they hibernate in the wild. Just saying...

As far as insulating the cage, you still need air-flow of course, but it might help? Many things can be used (ie. cut to fit & taped to the cage), such as foam board,
corrugated cardboard, cork or styro-foam, stick-on carpet tiles, packing 'bubbles' (also used w/ foil covering to insulate hot water heaters, though not attractively,
lol). You could try one of these options, installed temporarily (if you like?) & if it works, you might seriously be better off with a cabinet around your snake cage...
wood insulates pretty well too. Best of luck sorting this out.

I agree it's a challenge when "so many people...do things differently", but that's because our conditions & needs vary too. Having a forum for "thinking outside
the box" is what it's all about here. "Where there's a will, there's a way"! Actually, one of the things I like about keeping snakes for many years is that it has
required so much creativity on my part. Boids, colubrids & hots all demand different things from us to be successful...keeps you on your toes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I don't think you mentioned just how low the ambient air temperatures are in your house or room where the snake cage is, but you might also have to consider
insulating the cage itself...to help keep the heat in. And you really picked a challenge in choosing a BP, a species that needs higher temperatures than many other
possibilities, like a corn snake, that not only require less heat but are more "forgiving" because they hibernate in the wild. Just saying...

As far as insulating the cage, you still need air-flow of course, but it might help? Many things can be used (ie. cut to fit & taped to the cage), such as foam board,
corrugated cardboard, cork or styro-foam, stick-on carpet tiles, packing 'bubbles' (also used w/ foil covering to insulate hot water heaters, though not attractively,
lol). You could try one of these options, installed temporarily (if you like?) & if it works, you might seriously be better off with a cabinet around your snake cage...
wood insulates pretty well too. Best of luck sorting this out.

I agree it's a challenge when "so many people...do things differently", but that's because our conditions & needs vary too. Having a forum for "thinking outside
the box" is what it's all about here. "Where there's a will, there's a way"! Actually, one of the things I like about keeping snakes for many years is that it has
required so much creativity on my part. Boids, colubrids & hots all demand different things from us to be successful...keeps you on your toes.

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LOL - that's ok, it was always going to be a ball python and I knew the requirements ahead of time which is why I did go with what I thought was a better set up than my previous bp in a glass tank with a heat lamp.
I went out of my way to research the best enclosure available here and call the pro for rhp's.
I thought I was doing it right based on all the info I have.
I even bought some heat tape just incase.
Now I just need to know the best way to improve what has obviously not been as easy as I was led to believe.

Thank you for the tips about insulating!! My ambient room temp seems to be holding around 68 F right now even though it's warming up here in Ontario.

I am speaking with Pro-Products to see about getting a stronger rhp and will be picking up another thermostat today so I still think I can do this :)