New BP Owner - Need Help

Hi. I just got my first BP at an expo a few days ago. The only other snake I've had was a plains garter snake. I was careful not to walk in blindly, though, and have done plenty of research.

However, I do need some help and suggestions on a few things, since I'm not very experienced in ball pythons yet.

I've heard various arguments on what rodent should be fed to a ball python. The breeder who sold him to us said he was on rats, but I'd heard that mice work too, and thought they would be easier to aquire at such short notice. After I got him, I stopped by a reptile store and bought five feeder mice (the expo only sold frozen or pinky mice, and I'm not allowed to keep frozen rodents in our freezer). But now, I'm hearing that it might be best to make sure he stays on rats. I will be getting a freezer just for rodents soon.

My questions are:

Will he be too hard to get back onto frozen rats if he eats these five live mice?

What size rats should he be eating? I was told he isn't full grown, and he's about 31 inches. I tried to weigh him but I only have access to a normal scale. I put him in a bowl on it and tried to subtract the weight of the bowl from the snake, but the bowl wasn't heavy enough to register. If what it said was true, my snake is 300g-400g. It might not be accurate at all.

How often should he be fed (mice vs rats)?

If I'm feeding him mice right now, should I give him one or two?

How long do I have to wait to handle him? It's been 2-3 days since I got him, and I'll be honest, I've been handling him quite bit, but mostly to clean out his tank or weigh/ measure him.

When should I feed him? I made a mistake and didn't ask the breeder when he was last fed, when he last shed, or how old he was. And now I can't seem to get a hold of them. Would it do any harm to wait a week from when I got him?

Thank you for any help!

Start here:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ius)-Caresheet

And here:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...ALL-caresheets!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 55fingers

Hi. I just got my first BP at an expo a few days ago. The only other snake I've had was a plains garter snake. I was careful not to walk in blindly, though, and have done plenty of research.

However, I do need some help and suggestions on a few things, since I'm not very experienced in ball pythons yet.

I've heard various arguments on what rodent should be fed to a ball python. The breeder who sold him to us said he was on rats, but I'd heard that mice work too, and thought they would be easier to aquire at such short notice. After I got him, I stopped by a reptile store and bought five feeder mice (the expo only sold frozen or pinky mice, and I'm not allowed to keep frozen rodents in our freezer). But now, I'm hearing that it might be best to make sure he stays on rats. I will be getting a freezer just for rodents soon.

My questions are:

Will he be too hard to get back onto frozen rats if he eats these five live mice?

What size rats should he be eating? I was told he isn't full grown, and he's about 31 inches. I tried to weigh him but I only have access to a normal scale. I put him in a bowl on it and tried to subtract the weight of the bowl from the snake, but the bowl wasn't heavy enough to register. If what it said was true, my snake is 300g-400g. It might not be accurate at all.

How often should he be fed (mice vs rats)?

If I'm feeding him mice right now, should I give him one or two?

How long do I have to wait to handle him? It's been 2-3 days since I got him, and I'll be honest, I've been handling him quite bit, but mostly to clean out his tank or weigh/ measure him.

When should I feed him? I made a mistake and didn't ask the breeder when he was last fed, when he last shed, or how old he was. And now I can't seem to get a hold of them. Would it do any harm to wait a week from when I got him?

Thank you for any help!

---

Congratulations on you new addition! This feeding chart is a good general guide to go by.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...80d99354d5.jpg

There is some debate on which is more nutritional, rats or mice, but I think you'll find rats more economical in the long run as your snake gets bigger. I personally stick to rats.

He may have some difficulty going back to frozen if you feed him live a few times. I'd try to avoid that if he's already used to eating f/t and you ultimately want him on f/t.

Let him settle for at least a week before handling (starting now) and feeding. He can wait to eat, it's no problem. Then it is recommended to get 2-3 meals in him before you start handling. No handling 24 hours prior to feeding, or 48 hours after feeding, or you run the risk of regurgitation. Then keep handling sessions short (15-20 minutes tops) and positive.

Make sure your husbandry is dialed in to perfection. Review those links dr. del posted and then check against what you are set at. Husbandry is the #1 reason new snakes stress and go off food. So ensure you're all set there.

Thank you! That feeding chart really helps. I might be stuck feeding him live mice a few times, but now that I think about it, if I get a freezer soon, I could see if the reptile shop might trade the mice for a frozen rat or two.

I've read the link, and I believe his setup is adequate. He is in a 30 gallon long tank (I think it's 30), and has two hides, one at the cold side and one at the hot, a water bowl, a heat lamp, a heat pad, and is on a coconut fiber based substrate, which is sure to help humidity, I'd think.

Also, is there any preference towards a digital or analog thermometer/hydronometer? Is analog accurate? I've heard various things.

I personally have been testing to see how accurate the cheap analog ones you get at the pet store. I have a very expensive/accurate Fluke digital meter that I have been comparing with. They seem to be within 3% and that’s good enough for me. I think Accurite has a digital temp/humidity gauge that many people like. They sell them at Walmart.

I use this digital one by Acurite:

https://smile.amazon.com/AcuRite-The...ite+hygrometer

You can find fancier, but this does the trick and so far has been very accurate. Use a temp gun to verify all temperature readings. Your setup sounds great but I didn't see you mention thermostats. ALL heating elements must be plugged into a thermostat - UTH and CHE both. If your heating is not regulated by a thermostat, unplug it now as they can easily spike too high and permanently damage your snake.

I started out using Jumpstarts while I saved for, and recently upgraded to, the Herpstat2.

https://smile.amazon.com/MTPRTC-Cont...mostat+reptile

P.S. Sorry for the AmazonSmile links...I support my local bat rescue :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hilabeans

I use this digital one by Acurite:

https://smile.amazon.com/AcuRite-The...ite+hygrometer

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Just found and bought it at Wal-Mart, thanks!

Also, where is the best place to put it? In the middle? Or at the hot side?

Do you have a thermostat? I did not see that listed in your setup skinny. If you don’t have one, unplug the heat source and get one before feeding and ASAP or you’ll be sorry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 55fingers

Hi. I just got my first BP at an expo a few days ago. The only other snake I've had was a plains garter snake. I was careful not to walk in blindly, though, and have done plenty of research.

However, I do need some help and suggestions on a few things, since I'm not very experienced in ball pythons yet.

I've heard various arguments on what rodent should be fed to a ball python. The breeder who sold him to us said he was on rats, but I'd heard that mice work too, and thought they would be easier to aquire at such short notice. After I got him, I stopped by a reptile store and bought five feeder mice (the expo only sold frozen or pinky mice, and I'm not allowed to keep frozen rodents in our freezer). But now, I'm hearing that it might be best to make sure he stays on rats. I will be getting a freezer just for rodents soon.

My questions are:

Will he be too hard to get back onto frozen rats if he eats these five live mice?

What size rats should he be eating? I was told he isn't full grown, and he's about 31 inches. I tried to weigh him but I only have access to a normal scale. I put him in a bowl on it and tried to subtract the weight of the bowl from the snake, but the bowl wasn't heavy enough to register. If what it said was true, my snake is 300g-400g. It might not be accurate at all.

How often should he be fed (mice vs rats)?

If I'm feeding him mice right now, should I give him one or two?

How long do I have to wait to handle him? It's been 2-3 days since I got him, and I'll be honest, I've been handling him quite bit, but mostly to clean out his tank or weigh/ measure him.

When should I feed him? I made a mistake and didn't ask the breeder when he was last fed, when he last shed, or how old he was. And now I can't seem to get a hold of them. Would it do any harm to wait a week from when I got him?

Thank you for any help!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 55fingers

Hi. I just got my first BP at an expo a few days ago. The only other snake I've had was a plains garter snake. I was careful not to walk in blindly, though, and have done plenty of research.

However, I do need some help and suggestions on a few things, since I'm not very experienced in ball pythons yet.

I've heard various arguments on what rodent should be fed to a ball python. The breeder who sold him to us said he was on rats, but I'd heard that mice work too, and thought they would be easier to aquire at such short notice. After I got him, I stopped by a reptile store and bought five feeder mice (the expo only sold frozen or pinky mice, and I'm not allowed to keep frozen rodents in our freezer). But now, I'm hearing that it might be best to make sure he stays on rats. I will be getting a freezer just for rodents soon.

My questions are:

Will he be too hard to get back onto frozen rats if he eats these five live mice?

What size rats should he be eating? I was told he isn't full grown, and he's about 31 inches. I tried to weigh him but I only have access to a normal scale. I put him in a bowl on it and tried to subtract the weight of the bowl from the snake, but the bowl wasn't heavy enough to register. If what it said was true, my snake is 300g-400g. It might not be accurate at all.

How often should he be fed (mice vs rats)?

If I'm feeding him mice right now, should I give him one or two?

How long do I have to wait to handle him? It's been 2-3 days since I got him, and I'll be honest, I've been handling him quite bit, but mostly to clean out his tank or weigh/ measure him.

When should I feed him? I made a mistake and didn't ask the breeder when he was last fed, when he last shed, or how old he was. And now I can't seem to get a hold of them. Would it do any harm to wait a week from when I got him?

Thank you for any help!

---

Welcome to the forum!! Congrats on your first BP!!

I would definitely check out the links provided above by bcr29.

Now, to answer your questions:

- BPs can be notoriously finicky with food. For that reason, it's best to start feeding whatever the snake was eating before you brought it home. Since he was already on F/T rats you should really keep him on F/T rats. Switching him now may result in a) refusals now and b) may set him back to live or mice and he'll be tough to switch back.

- as for what size, follow the chart shared above by hilabeans...
There are also two basic rules of thumb regarding prey size for young BPs. 1) feed prey items that are 10-15% of the snake's body weight and 2) tje prey item should be about the same girth as the snake at the snake's widest part.

- BPs do well on a weekly feeding schedule while young.

- As for handling, do yourself AND YOUR SNAKE a favor and let him get settled in before doing any more handling.

You already said you've been handling him quite a bit, but only for enclosure cleanings and to weigh/measure him. You just got him a few days ago, his tank should be clean. You weighed/measured him already. Leave the poor guy alone now.

Again, BPs can be very finicky. Handling now will lead to stress. Stress leads to food refusals. It is VERY important to let the snake get acclimated and eating consistently before handling. You'll have 20+ years to handle the snake, let him acclimate now.
I highly advise new BP keepers to let their snake eat three consecutive meals without refusal before handling. I know, seems like forever, but it's what's best for the snake, which is most important.

- Lastly, as for when to feed, that's up to you, but waiting a week is fine. If I were you, I'd get my hands on a F/T small rat and offer whenever you get it. Since you can't keep frozen rodents in your freezer, you'll have to buy one at a time (expensive this way) til you get your freezer. This is another good reason to refrain from handling. It'll get expensive wasting rats if your snake is refusing due to stress.


Good luck and feel free to ask any questions you may have!!

Oh and also ARE YOUR HEAT SOURCES REGULATED BY A THERMOSTAT????

Ah sorry for not responding!

No, I currently do not have any thermostats, and since it has been brought up, I have just researched it and realize now that I need one. I had heard that people use them, but wasn't sure if they was necessary, or what they were, but nobody had told me that I needed one.

Now that I know their importance, it might explain my previously healthy garter snake's sudden and mysterious death.

I have a few more questions, if you guys don't mind:

I have two heat sources for him, a light and a mat. The mat was originally a seedling mat, and the lamp has a normal house bulb in it. It gives off some heat though, I imagine. Is a thermostat needed for both of them? Or just the heating mat, since the lamp has a normal bulb?

Do I need two thermostats, or can I plug a power strip into one as long as I don't exceed the maximum wattage?

This might depend on the brand/model, but if I plug them both into a power strip, and I put the probe between the lamp and mat, will it switch them both off when it reaches the ideal temperature between them? And will it switch them both back on when needed?

I'm going to order one from online as soon as I can. It may take from a few days to a week to get here. Is it really the best to switch off his heat sources in the meantime? Is it at least okay to keep his lamp on? It's pretty high up and I'll mention again, a normal house bulb.

Thank you for all the help! I wouldn't want my BP to go the same way my garter did.

You will need seperate thermostats for each heat source

As for switching the heat mat off for now, definitely.

How often is the bulb on? Is it just a regular white bulb?

Usually I leave it on along with my LED tank light until I go to bed, then back on when I wake up, but I could change that if needed. It is a regular incandescent light bulb.

I just read that I could use a dimmer instead of a second thermostat. Is that true?

Also, where's the best place to put the thermometer? Would it be best in the middle of the tank, or at the hot or cold side? If I will have a thermostat on monitoring the hot side, would it be best to put the thermometer at the cold side?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

- As for handling, do yourself AND YOUR SNAKE a favor and let him get settled in before doing any more handling.

You already said you've been handling him quite a bit, but only for enclosure cleanings and to weigh/measure him. You just got him a few days ago, his tank should be clean. You weighed/measured him already. Leave the poor guy alone now.

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Thank you for the help. Also, I just want to clarify since I probably didn't make sense; I had handled him around three times in total, the first time was the journey between the expo and putting him in his tank, then I realized the next day that the tank was too small for him and moved him to a different tank, then after that I wanted to weigh/measure him so I could buy the right rat size in preparation. I haven't taken him out since everyone on here advised me to wait, so I'm hoping I'm finally doing it right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 55fingers

Thank you for the help. Also, I just want to clarify since I probably didn't make sense; I had handled him around three times in total, the first time was the journey between the expo and putting him in his tank, then I realized the next day that the tank was too small for him and moved him to a different tank, then after that I wanted to weigh/measure him so I could buy the right rat size in preparation. I haven't taken him out since everyone on here advised me to wait, so I'm hoping I'm finally doing it right.

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Sounds good!!!

Now, for the bulb...what's your reason for using it? It's probably not serving any purpose for the snake and could be adding unnecasary stress.

Although it is a normal bulb, it is still surrounded by the metal heat lamp, which gathers the heat and gives off a good amount of warmth. It still warms up the hot side of his tank to an extent when it's the only heat source.

Is it unnecessary, though? Will a ball python be okay with just a heat mat?

My thermostat, dimmer, and feeding tongs have either arrived or are about to arrive. I have acquired a freezer and have weaned rats now, deciding That's better for him than mice. I might be getting some fake plants for his enclosure tonight. My question is, can I add this all at once? Would it be okay to move him to a different container while he eats, and leave him to digest while I put the thermostat and all this new stuff in? Or would that overwhelm him? Is it best to feed him in has tank, or in a separate feeding tank? I've heard that stops them from associating the tank opening with food, but if I move him after he eats, isn't there a chance he will regurgitate?

You can get everything set up all at once.

I would wait a few days after adjusting everything to try to feed, but it's really up to you. I personally would wait, it's not going to hurt him. If you offer now he may or may not eat, no biggie.

As for a seperate feeding tub, that is old school and proven counter productive. I have always fed inside their enclosures and have never been bitten or even struck at within the enclosure.
This topic always brings a little debate, but you'll find the vast majority feed inside the enclosure. Using a feeding tub increases the chance of a regurge as well as increases the chance of getting tagged while the snake is in feed mode. Also, it can stress the snake prior to it even eating and cause refusals.

Thank you! I will try to add all the new stuff, then probably wait a few days to feed him so he gets used to it. He comes out at night regularly, but recently I think he's been looking hungry so I was worried about how soon to feed him, but I'm glad to hear it won't hurt to wait a few more days.

Also thank you for the information about whether or not to move him to a feeding tub. I'd heard so many different things about it I didn't know what was the right way.

I'm thinking that I'll try to put a lid down under the rat, as I'm worried about him accidently eating his substrate (eco earth coconut fiber). When I had a garter snake, his worms and fish, being slimy, would get covered in it and he would get it all stuck in his mouth and was visibly uncomfortable. I hope Ralph (my BP) doesn't get hurt by it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 55fingers

Thank you! I will try to add all the new stuff, then probably wait a few days to feed him so he gets used to it. He comes out at night regularly, but recently I think he's been looking hungry so I was worried about how soon to feed him, but I'm glad to hear it won't hurt to wait a few more days.

Also thank you for the information about whether or not to move him to a feeding tub. I'd heard so many different things about it I didn't know what was the right way.

I'm thinking that I'll try to put a lid down under the rat, as I'm worried about him accidently eating his substrate (eco earth coconut fiber). When I had a garter snake, his worms and fish, being slimy, would get covered in it and he would get it all stuck in his mouth and was visibly uncomfortable. I hope Ralph (my BP) doesn't get hurt by it.

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Sounds Good!

I wouldn't worry too much about him getting a little substrate in his mouth. It happens. But yeah, a lot of people lay a paper plate or something over the substrate prior to feeding. I find they take they prey where they want to take it anyway, so I don't personally put anything down. It certainly won't hurt if you feel better putting it down though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 55fingers

Although it is a normal bulb, it is still surrounded by the metal heat lamp, which gathers the heat and gives off a good amount of warmth. It still warms up the hot side of his tank to an extent when it's the only heat source.

Is it unnecessary, though? Will a ball python be okay with just a heat mat?

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Can't answer this without knowing the temperatures IN your cage...also how cold is your house (ambient room temperatures outside the cage)?
In the winter, many ppl keep their house colder & that can make it so you need more cage heat to keep the temps up; likewise, if you use a lot of A/C in summer.

"Normal" light bulbs (aka incandescent bulbs) can give off a LOT of heat, depending on the wattage. They can over-heat the cage, especially in conjunction with UTH.
All this should have been tested before you moved a live snake into the cage, by the way...just so you know for "next time"? And I highly recommend that you buy
a lamp dimmer (aka rheostat) from the nearest hardware store A.S.A.P. Not only will you save electricity, but you will reduce your snake's stress & possible injury from
overheating. You can buy a lamp dimmer to install* on the cord of whatever lamp you are using, but easier* still is to buy an extension cord with the dimmer already
installed. These are NOT expensive, please don't wait. If you don't link the light to a thermostat, you STILL need to make sure it's not too hot...you need to know the
temps. IN the cage...ok? There is a huge difference between the heat output of a 25 watt bulb and the heat given off from a 60 or 100 watt+ bulb. Please check!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 55fingers

... Would it be okay to move him to a different container while he eats, and leave him to digest while I put the thermostat and all this new stuff in? Or would that overwhelm him? Is it best to feed him in has tank, or in a separate feeding tank? I've heard that stops them from associating the tank opening with food, but if I move him after he eats, isn't there a chance he will regurgitate?

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Handling a snake that is expecting food can do several bad things: it can stress the snake so it doesn't want to eat...it can get you bit (when the snake is over-eager and you are "warm & wiggling" your hands in what may seem like prey to a snake, "oops!"), and snakes that feed "enthusiastically" may stay in "food mode" (ready to bite) for hours or even a day+, so trying to put that snake back into it's cage can be problematic (& dangerous, with really large snakes!) So for all those reasons, please leave your snake in his own cage to feed...there are plenty of ways to cue your snake that you are handling them, not feeding. You need to remember to use your snakes best senses:scent & touch. By properly learning to use scent & touch cues, very few snakes bite by mistake. Many if not most snakes get alert when when we open their cage, hoping that maybe food is arriving. It's your job to anticipate this, & respond by giving them your scent &/or touch so they know what to expect.

Meanwhile, if a snake can associate you opening the cage with food (& therefore be ready to bite you by mistake), what's to stop them from learning to associate you handling them with food, & biting you anyway? See? So learn to communicate using touch (aka "hook training" etc) or scent (blow air across your hand thru screen in their direction so they get your scent & it's NOT a food scent; or if you have long hair or a shirt sleeve handy, lower that in so they can sniff it..."oops, not a rat! yuck, never mind"). You'll see they calm right down once they know it's not food heading their way.