I think I need help (Regurgitation)

Hi,

three weeks ago I moved my snake to a new enclosure. A week after that he ate happily. That's when the problems started.
Like usual I tried to feed him a week afterwards with a F/T rat. When I tried to pick the rat up the tail fell off. I never experienced that before, so I didn't think too much of it (I know: stupid). I offered him the rat and he took one bite at it but then refused to eat it. I figured that it might have gone bad.
Today (like usual) I tried to feed him again with a rat from the same package as the first an the second one. I offered him the rat but lost the grip on it when a whole piece of skin on the back feel off. Before I could intervene my snake had already caught it. Since last time he refused to eat the possibly rotten rat I thought that he might know better than me but he didn't. He regurged just a few minutes ago.
I threw the rest of the rats away and I'm going to buy new ones.
Humidity is at 52%.
Hot spot is at 90,5 degrees and the cold spot is at 80 degrees at the moment.

Can anyone please give me some tipps? Is it likely that the regurgitation was due to the rats or could there be other problems?

I'm really worried. Thanks to everyone in advance.

are you absolutely positive on your husbandry, or your f/t thawing process? i'll assume so:
bad rats are absolutely a possibility, especially how you describe them basically falling apart. TBH that's nasty lol.

i actually got a batch of feeders a year ago and they STUNK; looked fine, thawed fine, smelled like butt. my CG female refused this batch entirely. others ate, but i felt she was a Warrant Canary and i decided to replace my stock of weaners.

she ate fine from those.

EDIT: my only regurge was from a runaway heating element which was easily identifiable, so idk much about regurge from feeders specifically.

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

are you absolutely positive on your husbandry, or your f/t thawing process? i'll assume so:
bad rats are absolutely a possibility, especially how you describe them basically falling apart. TBH that's nasty lol.

i actually got a batch of feeders a year ago and they STUNK; looked fine, thawed fine, smelled like butt. my CG female refused this batch entirely. others ate, but i felt she was a Warrant Canary and i decided to replace my stock of weaners.

she ate fine from those.

EDIT: my only regurge was from a runaway heating element which was easily identifiable, so idk much about regurge from feeders specifically.

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Thanks for the answer.

My husbandry has always been the same just like my thawing process.
I've mentioned the temperature and the humidity (at this moment) above. My snake has always something to drink. I don't handle him so that wouldn't stress him and the enclosure is covered up to he can feel at ease. I use cypress mulch as the bedding. I also use two identical hides. This is how my set up has always worked.

Concerning the thawing process: I always put the rat in a zip bag and then I put the zip back into lukewarm water for about 20 minutes until it's thawed out. After that I take hot water at 140 Fahrenheit and put the zip bag in there for like 2 minutes. Normally the rat is just warm enough wafter that.



Also there are two more things I've noticed. My zip bag had a small hole so that the rat was wet when I offered it. That's not a problem since my snake eats it anyway and it's just water. While cleaning I noticed that the water that was left in the bag was brown. I don't think I've seen that before and that's probably not a good sign.

I shouldn't feed my snake for 2 weeks now, right? I'm a bit worried since he is losing weight (he's one year old and weighed about 750 grams, now about 730 grams) but he should be okay. He's a good enough weight to make it through two weeks. I hope it'll be okay.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caali

Thanks for the answer.

My husbandry has always been the same just like my thawing process.
I've mentioned the temperature and the humidity (at this moment) above. My snake has always something to drink. I don't handle him so that wouldn't stress him and the enclosure is covered up to he can feel at ease. I use cypress mulch as the bedding. I also use two identical hides. This is how my set up has always worked.

Concerning the thawing process: I always put the rat in a zip bag and then I put the zip back into lukewarm water for about 20 minutes until it's thawed out. After that I take hot water at 140 Fahrenheit and put the zip bag in there for like 2 minutes. Normally the rat is just warm enough wafter that.



Also there are two more things I've noticed. My zip bag had a small hole so that the rat was wet when I offered it. That's not a problem since my snake eats it anyway and it's just water. While cleaning I noticed that the water that was left in the bag was brown. I don't think I've seen that before and that's probably not a good sign.

I shouldn't feed my snake for 2 weeks now, right? I'm a bit worried since he is losing weight (he's one year old and weighed about 750 grams, now about 730 grams) but he should be okay. He's a good enough weight to make it through two weeks. I hope it'll be okay.

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what happened with the regurge exactly? was it immediately after feeding, or days later? sorry, my reading apprehension is lacking atm.

at that weight, you have no needs to worry or rush to feed. let their body readjust and relax; digestion is super stressful on a snake.

it sounds like you have quite a few variables regarding the feeder(s) in question which makes the source of the problem hard to pin down: brown water, wet rat, hole in bag,

not to be redundant: have you triple-checked husbandry?

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

what happened with the regurge exactly? was it immediately after feeding, or days later? sorry, my reading apprehension is lacking atm.

at that weight, you have no needs to worry or rush to feed. let their body readjust and relax; digestion is super stressful on a snake.

it sounds like you have quite a few variables regarding the feeder(s) in question which makes the source of the problem hard to pin down: brown water, wet rat, hole in bag,

not to be redundant: have you triple-checked husbandry?

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It was immediately after he ate it. He slithered over to his water bowl and regurged. Right now he's back in his cold hide, sleeping.

I checked my husbandry again just now. Nothing looks (or smells for that matter) out of the usual. The temps are still the same, humidity as well. The thermostats are still doing their jobs as well and the temps match those ones my thermometers show.

I actually believe that the brown water came from the rat since I only saw it where I put the rat before picking it up. The water inside my heating bowl was also normal clear water.

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Originally Posted by Caali

It was immediately after he ate it.

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so it didn't smell like death? good news: that's not a regurge! just a snake deciding not to eat their prey; bad news!: we still gotta figure out why.

was the snake spooked somehow?

honestly, to me, those feeders sound nasty. i wouldn't eat them either from the way you described them. any chance you can offer from a new stock?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

so it didn't smell like death? good news: that's not a regurge! just a snake deciding not to eat their prey; bad news!: we still gotta figure out why.

was the snake spooked somehow?

honestly, to me, those feeders sound nasty. i wouldn't eat them either from the way you described them. any chance you can offer from a new stock?

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Why isn't that a regurge? I'm actually really happy that it isn't.

I've heard that it was supposed to smell but to be honest the smell was worse before than afterwards. The feeder was just a bit longer than before and also slimy and bloody but it didn't smell like anything. At least not that much that the smell struck me when I took it out of the enclosure and into a little box but I have to add that I can't smell that well anyway (I have hayfever at the moment and I can only smell very strong scents).

I don't have a new stock at home at the moment but a big pet store (the one I've been buying my feeders at since I've had my snake) is just 20 minutes away (by bike) from my home, so I could buy new feeders today. Do you think I should offer again?

Sounds like he vomited. And it does also sound like it could be bad feeders. I would still treat it like a full regurge, especially since you said there was blood present? Was it alot?

Either way, wait 2 weeks before offering again. He'll be perfectly fine. 30 grams of weight loss is nothing for a bp. He could probably poop almost as much!

Yeah, that's not a regurge. A regurge woukd be partially digested and even with hay fever you'd smell it.

Based on the info at hand. I would say the feeders are bad. And honestly, I'd be reluctant to buy from that source again. Unless of course they were stored improperly once you got them?

Do you have another prey source??

I'd also wait 2 weeks to offer again. Your snake is at a weight that can easily handle a few weeks without...

BUT...you mentioned the snake is already losing weight??? Why is that???

Others have touched base on the regurging so I want to touch base on your thawing process and feeder source.

When you thaw out, the water you said is 140, is that boiled water, or is that just your sink water turned on hot? If it's boiled, I wouldn't do that, if it's regular sink water, I would still try to back off a bit. That's just my personal opinion though.

Where do you get your feeders from? Honestly if you have stuff falling apart that sounds like bad feeders. I would highly suggest you find another source to get your feeders from and I'll gladly help you find a better place which will save you money.

I have a friend who lives in Germany so I can ask her where she gets her stuff from.

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Originally Posted by Team Slytherin

Sounds like he vomited. And it does also sound like it could be bad feeders. I would still treat it like a full regurge, especially since you said there was blood present? Was it alot?

Either way, wait 2 weeks before offering again. He'll be perfectly fine. 30 grams of weight loss is nothing for a bp. He could probably poop almost as much!

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Thanks for the help!
It wasn't a lot of blood and I'm pretty sure it was the rat's. Ok, I'll make him wait for the next week for two weeks. Just to make sure that he stays healthy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

craigafrechette

Yeah, that's not a regurge. A regurge woukd be partially digested and even with hay fever you'd smell it.

Based on the info at hand. I would say the feeders are bad. And honestly, I'd be reluctant to buy from that source again. Unless of course they were stored improperly once you got them?

Do you have another prey source??

I'd also wait 2 weeks to offer again. Your snake is at a weight that can easily handle a few weeks without...

BUT...you mentioned the snake is already losing weight??? Why is that???

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Thank you for the information.
I researching other places to buy feeders from. I'm sure there are some.
Well, maybe one of my roommates might have left the freezer open and didn't tell me? I don't have another explanation :oops:
The weight loss is probably not that bad. The first time I weighed him was three days after a big meal (he hadn't pooped in a while as well) and then the second time was after he had a big poop. I timed it very badly. That's probably the reason for the weight loss.

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Originally Posted by Neal

Others have touched base on the regurging so I want to touch base on your thawing process and feeder source.

When you thaw out, the water you said is 140, is that boiled water, or is that just your sink water turned on hot? If it's boiled, I wouldn't do that, if it's regular sink water, I would still try to back off a bit. That's just my personal opinion though.

Where do you get your feeders from? Honestly if you have stuff falling apart that sounds like bad feeders. I would highly suggest you find another source to get your feeders from and I'll gladly help you find a better place which will save you money.

I have a friend who lives in Germany so I can ask her where she gets her stuff from.

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Thanks for the tipp.
I'll definitely will not use water as hot as that anymore.
To the feeding source: I have a "Fressnapf" near my home. They have different supplier brands and feeder sizes which gives me lots of room to choose from. Personally I really love the brand called Petmad but it's hard to get the feeders from them since they're not always available.
If it's okay, I'd still like to take you up upon that offer with your friend in Germany. My friends don't really like or care about snakes which is why no one around me has an idea where to buy from. I'd love to hear from someone else where they get their feeders from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caali

Thank you for the information.
I researching other places to buy feeders from. I'm sure there are some.
Well, maybe one of my roommates might have left the freezer open and didn't tell me? I don't have another explanation :oops:
The weight loss is probably not that bad. The first time I weighed him was three days after a big meal (he hadn't pooped in a while as well) and then the second time was after he had a big poop. I timed it very badly. That's probably the reason for the weight loss.

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Ok cool. Then the snake is actually losing weight. That's good.
I would try to find another source for feeders and offer in two weeks.
Assuming all goes well from there then you can just chalk it up to bad feeders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caali

Thanks for the help!
It wasn't a lot of blood and I'm pretty sure it was the rat's. Ok, I'll make him wait for the next week for two weeks. Just to make sure that he stays healthy.





Thank you for the information.
I researching other places to buy feeders from. I'm sure there are some.
Well, maybe one of my roommates might have left the freezer open and didn't tell me? I don't have another explanation :oops:
The weight loss is probably not that bad. The first time I weighed him was three days after a big meal (he hadn't pooped in a while as well) and then the second time was after he had a big poop. I timed it very badly. That's probably the reason for the weight loss.



Thanks for the tipp.
I'll definitely will not use water as hot as that anymore.
To the feeding source: I have a "Fressnapf" near my home. They have different supplier brands and feeder sizes which gives me lots of room to choose from. Personally I really love the brand called Petmad but it's hard to get the feeders from them since they're not always available.
If it's okay, I'd still like to take you up upon that offer with your friend in Germany. My friends don't really like or care about snakes which is why no one around me has an idea where to buy from. I'd love to hear from someone else where they get their feeders from.

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Yea, I just think that 140 is a bit hot. I have one of the knock off yeti cups that keep stuff hot/cold and I put the rats in a ziploc bag in there with hot tap water, my water is usually 110ish if I had to guess, I know it's not 140. She said she gets hers from tropic-shop, her and a few of her friends place a big order normally.

I'm not sure which part of Germany you're from but if you need snake friends I'm sure my friend Sarah would love to help you more being she may be closer to you and able to recommend stuff being you're in the same geographic location. I know she's from somewhere in Westfalia or NRW.

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Originally Posted by Neal

Yea, I just think that 140 is a bit hot. I have one of the knock off yeti cups that keep stuff hot/cold and I put the rats in a ziploc bag in there with hot tap water, my water is usually 110ish if I had to guess, I know it's not 140. She said she gets hers from tropic-shop, her and a few of her friends place a big order normally.

I'm not sure which part of Germany you're from but if you need snake friends I'm sure my friend Sarah would love to help you more being she may be closer to you and able to recommend stuff being you're in the same geographic location. I know she's from somewhere in Westfalia or NRW.

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I'm from NRW (Westfalia is also in NRW) as well. I live in what we call the Rhineland.
Thanks for the tip. Maybe I'll try ordering online :)

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Originally Posted by Caali

I'm from NRW (Westfalia is also in NRW) as well. I live in what we call the Rhineland.
Thanks for the tip. Maybe I'll try ordering online :)

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I told her where you got your food from and she said: "Ahhh No". The food from fressnapf is from Petman and they had really really bad frozen.

I'm going to send you a message.