Hard time switching to frozen, strange day time behavior

Hello everyone. My new male ball python was fed live before I got him and I'm having a really hard time switching him over to frozen. I've been trying to feed him some fuzzies every 3 days, but no luck. I have a few theories on why hes's not eating. First, he ate hoppers before, or I may be stressing him too much. Now, yesterday, he didn't want to eat again. I really wanted him to have a meal, so I decided to try and assist feed him. Yes, stupid me. It's only been two weeks since he got to my house, and I already tried to assist feed him. He's the calmest snake ever, but is insanely head shy. Touching his head is a big nono for now. When I was finally able to get the mouse in his mouth, he just spat it out and tried to hide. This day, after I took him out to inspect him, he was a little bit shy coming out but after 20 mins, I decided to put him back into his tank. He crawled right back out and went straight to exploring. I tried to put him back, but every time he would try to come back out. Mind this, it's in the middle of the day. I'm very confused with this behavior. Is it because he's really hungry? What should I do next in feeding? Thanks for reading.

Ok. First, you need to leave this snake alone to acclimate. He’s only been with you for two weeks and you’ve attempted to feed every 3 days and tried to assist feed? Second, do NOT assist feed this animal. He’s not eating because he’s stressed out. If he has not taken a meal with you, wait a full 7 days before offering again, offer the same type of prey he was last eating , and do not handle for those 7 days. Two weeks is NOTHING for a snake. There is no need to think twice about it, much less try to force feed him.

The most likely reason common with new owners is you don't have correct husbandry for the species. Ball pythons won't thrive in just any old tank with a water bowl and some decor, you need to set it up according to the species needs.

You should post a picture of your setup, what equipment you're using, your temps and what you're using to measure temps.

No handling him whatsoever until he eats at least two meals, unless absolutely necessary

They can eat mouse hoppers right out of the egg, so you could offer hoppers instead... but fix the husbandry first.

No need to assist feed or force feed at all. Once you fix your husbandry, he will fall into place.

Follow this for the easiest way! You can always fix up his tank later after he's started to thrive and eat consistently.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-hatchling-101

Yeah, I shouldn't have handled him much at all. I'm very new to the snake hobby so I have a hard time telling if my snake is stressed or not. My bad on the feeding too, I just don't want him starving even though I know he's probably fine. I can't offer him a live hopper because I don't really know where I could get just one. My parents would also be very unhappy with me if I had to keep mice, and finally, if I did somehow just get one, what would I do with it if my snake wouldn't want it(and just feeding a frozen mouse makes me feel a little bit sad)? I don't think anyone really told me what his strange longing to come out in the daytime means. On the topic of caging. I'll post some pictures later but for now I'll list what I have.
A 20 gallon tank, ZooMed 8 Watt 10-20 gl. heat pad, a ZooMed 4 Watt 5-10 gl heat pad, An IPOWER Heat Mat Thermostat, Zilla Jungle Mix substrate, a realistic looking cave hide(just the perfect size for him, I will also be getting a smaller little hide for him tomorrow, as well as the frozen hoppers), a water bowl just big enough for his body, a ZooMed Dual Analog Thermometer and Humidity Gauge, a $10 digital thermometer and humidity tracker, Infrared thermometer heat gun(that I use once a day). My temps: Hot side(88-93F), Cool side(77F), Ambitient temp: 80F. Humdity: I spray the tank fully twice a day. My humidity is usually around 55-58%.

MO, it's best to give the snake eating what it's used to a couple times before trying to switch it over to f/t. Your snake won't starve if you give it a week or two to settle in.

You have two UTHs but only one thermostat? You know that an unregulated UTH can get hot enough to burn your snake? You need to unplug it until you can get another thermostat.

I would also swap out that analogue thermometer for a digital one, they aren't the most accurate and your snake could pull them down and get the adhesive stuck to them.

Yeah, I'm currently getting another same exact thermostat in a few days, for now I'll unplug it. I would feed it live but I really don't know where I could get one or two. Ok, I'll but a better thermometer in a bit. Thanks for the feedback.

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Originally Posted by Danya

Yeah, I shouldn't have handled him much at all. I'm very new to the snake hobby so I have a hard time telling if my snake is stressed or not. My bad on the feeding too, I just don't want him starving even though I know he's probably fine. I can't offer him a live hopper because I don't really know where I could get just one. My parents would also be very unhappy with me if I had to keep mice, and finally, if I did somehow just get one, what would I do with it if my snake wouldn't want it(and just feeding a frozen mouse makes me feel a little bit sad)? I don't think anyone really told me what his strange longing to come out in the daytime means.]

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All stuff that should have been figured out BEFORE bringing an animal home.

PLEASE DO NOT try assist feeding this poor snake again. You are causing WAY more damage than good. Leave the snake COMPLETELY alone for a week and try offering again. If the snake doesn't eat try again in a week. Repeat...
NO HANDLING during this time. Wait til the snake is eating consistently before handling. You'll have this snake 20+ years, plenty of time for handling.

There are 2 major reasons snakes don't eat 1) is husbandry and 2) is stress.
Your husbandry sounds pretty good, but did I read that there is only 1 hide?? You need 2.
So, now the obvious answer is STRESS!!! Leave the snake COMPLETELY alone so he can relax and get comfortable. A scared, stressed snake will NOT eat, and you've got yourself a scared, stressed snake.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

All stuff that should have been figured out BEFORE bringing an animal home.

PLEASE DO NOT try assist feeding this poor snake again. You are causing WAY more damage than good. Leave the snake COMPLETELY alone for a week and try offering again. If the snake doesn't eat try again in a week. Repeat...
NO HANDLING during this time. Wait til the snake is eating consistently before handling. You'll have this snake 20+ years, plenty of time for handling.

There are 2 major reasons snakes don't eat 1) is husbandry and 2) is stress.
Your husbandry sounds pretty good, but did I read that there is only 1 hide?? You need 2.
So, now the obvious answer is STRESS!!! Leave the snake COMPLETELY alone so he can relax and get comfortable. A scared, stressed snake will NOT eat, and you've got yourself a scared, stressed snake.

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What he said...Perfectly stated and spot on!

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

All stuff that should have been figured out BEFORE bringing an animal home.

PLEASE DO NOT try assist feeding this poor snake again. You are causing WAY more damage than good. Leave the snake COMPLETELY alone for a week and try offering again. If the snake doesn't eat try again in a week. Repeat...
NO HANDLING during this time. Wait til the snake is eating consistently before handling. You'll have this snake 20+ years, plenty of time for handling.

There are 2 major reasons snakes don't eat 1) is husbandry and 2) is stress.
Your husbandry sounds pretty good, but did I read that there is only 1 hide?? You need 2.
So, now the obvious answer is STRESS!!! Leave the snake COMPLETELY alone so he can relax and get comfortable. A scared, stressed snake will NOT eat, and you've got yourself a scared, stressed snake.

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Not going to be mean but this OP's thread is just ridiculous. How can you bring home a Living Thing and not have the first clue on what it needs...
Let me give a quick "wise guy" scenario, don't get upset but this is how silly & uninformed you sound..
.....i'll come pick you up even though you dont know me or expect it, take you back to my place, i'll rub you head and face even though you'll be nervous and flinch trying to get away. Then i'll prepare a nice Steak every couple hours and force feed you even though your scared as hell and in no way need to eat a whole Steak every couple hours....
Hmmm, wonder how many dates i'll get with this story [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23].
Im really not trying to come off like a jerk, i just want you to understand how ridiculous everything youve done is. This is not a dog, they will never "like" or crave attention from us. It does not want you to pet it.
Some snakes will tolerate us better than others, key word tolerate. Ball pythons will go Months & Months without eating at times. Dont ever try and Force Feed a healthy snake unless a Reptile Vet says your snake is starving and that would take a healthy snake over a year.. Of course a sick snake less time. You can rip teeth out, cause a infection or just stress a healthy snake so bad it will associate eating with something bad and go off feed.
Ball Pythons ARE HEAD SHY. This is one of the reasons why i said your post is so ridiculous. Why on earth do people assume Ball Pythons would enjoy their head being touched.....Well because they didn't properly research the animal in the first place.
In no way am i suggesting your a bad person, this isnt a personal attack but these are living things not Toys for our amusement.
Read up & research a animal before giving one a home, it is not fair to think we can do whatever we want at the expense of any other creature on this earth.


(PS) I just found out your 15 years old. This info should have been researched by your Guardian/Parents first before they allowed you to have a snake. I understand your younger and I dont want to upset you but please discuss all this with a adult so you can successfully take care of your snakes needs.


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A lot of new python owners have a difficulty grasping how different snakes are from us. Snakes, and pythons especially, have very, very slow metabolisms. An healthy, plump adult python can go for MONTHS without eating. obviously an underweight, young python can’t survive that long, but they can still go for weeks before starving.
Forget about feeding, just focus on getting your new pet as comfortable as possible. Ball python’s like to feel hidden. Give him darkness and cover. Black out all of the walls of the enclosure except for one viewing side. Give good hides where the snake can completely hide himself from view. Make sure the temps are good, check and re-check with a laser thermometer (temp gun), adjust your thermostats, and do lots of research.
The snake has a DO NOT DISTURB sign up whenever it is hidden, and any time it is in a new environment. So DO NOT DISTURB the little guy. Just change his water, check the temps and leave him alone in darkness to hide and calm down.
After the snake is comfortable for at least 4-5 days, then try to feed. The snake is scared of you, but now is not the time to try to tame it. Now, let it be scared if you, do not remove his hide or go near him with your hand when you feed. Just drop a live feeder in the enclosure and let him ambush it and watch.

Good luck


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By the way, I only take out and handle my snakes, once or twice per week, as they are content to be left alone most of the time. They are really not “fun” pets, as people might wish. They are extremely boring in many ways, lol. But I love them, and its enough for me to just take care of their needs, and occasionally take one out to interact with.


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Thanks for everyone's feedback. I really do appreciate it even though it's not the nicest, but that's the only real way for me to learn right now. I now know how improperly I am doing a lot of important stuff in my husbandry. I will do as people told me(have minimum contact with the snake for a week, and then try and feed it). But, my original thread and some posts had some questions that I didn't get an answer for. One of the questions I asked was "Where I could get one or a few live hoppers?". I do have a pet shop not too far away that I know sells live mice, but I don't know if they will sell me just one. Let's say they did sell me one hopper on the day I would try to feed my snake(After a full week of basically bare minimum human contact) and he wouldn't eat the hopper. Where would I keep it? Would I have to get a cage for mice and make them live and grow with me for another whole week? I also asked what the strange day time behavior could mean. Someone also told me that I did need a second hide after I stated that I will be getting another one soon, which made me think that my thread wasn't read completely through(No hard feelings at all, just made me feel a little bit frustrated). I hope this doesn't make me sound like an ungrateful person. Thank you all for your feedback, No hard feelings.

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Originally Posted by Danya

Thanks for everyone's feedback. I really do appreciate it even though it's not the nicest, but that's the only real way for me to learn right now. I now know how improperly I am doing a lot of important stuff in my husbandry. I will do as people told me(have minimum contact with the snake for a week, and then try and feed it). But, my original thread and some posts had some questions that I didn't get an answer for. One of the questions I asked was "Where I could get one or a few live hoppers?". I do have a pet shop not too far away that I know sells live mice, but I don't know if they will sell me just one. Let's say they did sell me one hopper on the day I would try to feed my snake(After a full week of basically bare minimum human contact) and he wouldn't eat the hopper. Where would I keep it? Would I have to get a cage for mice and make them live and grow with me for another whole week? I also asked what the strange day time behavior could mean. Someone also told me that I did need a second hide after I stated that I will be getting another one soon, which made me think that my thread wasn't read completely through(No hard feelings at all, just made me feel a little bit frustrated). I hope this doesn't make me sound like an ungrateful person. Thank you all for your feedback, No hard feelings.

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Dont get frustrated. Everyone starts somewhere. The important thing is that you are receptive to the advice.

I am not an expert, but reading through and interpreting others’ responses and also thinking through how I would attempt to resolve the issues you are facing right now, these are my thoughts.

As to your question regarding him roaming and exploring after having him out and handling him for about 20 minutes, your question was indirectly, although not explicitly answered. If a ball python is stressed and scared, it will not behave the way it would when it is not stressed or afraid. When you put him back into his enclosure, which is a space that he has not had time to sufficiently adjust to in the first place due to over handling and repeated efforts to feed him when he wasn’t ready, what you interpreted to be exploring, may have actually been him searching for a place in the enclosure that he felt safe and secure in.That’s why people have recommended to leave him be, no handling, etc... Let him have the time to settle and de-stress.

As for the live hopper, once you get him eating regularly, it won’t be a concern. In the meantime, my personal opinion is that a live hopper mouse does not present a danger to your snake. I would NOT recommend this with a larger mouse or rat, but you could put the hopper mouse in and leave in in the enclosure. My guess is that at some point overnight, when things are quiet and dark, he will eat it and it will be gone by morning. Worst case scenario, a hopper mouse is not very expensive, so if it goes to waste and you buy one the following week, I don’t think it’s that big of a loss. Maybe $2? You’ll be spending that anyway once he is eating regularly. Once you get him eating on a consistent basis (at least 3 weeks in a row), you could switch him over to f/t.

Someone with more more experience can jump in here if I am off base on any of this.

Thanks for the great feedback! I won't be having any contact with him for a week from today, so let's see how that goes. He's currently just lying on his warm spot. As for the mouse, I guess I'll pick one up this Friday(that was the day he was fed before) and see how that goes. I really hope he eats it because I don't know what I'll do with it if he won't. Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by Danya

Thanks for the great feedback! I won't be having any contact with him for a week from today, so let's see how that goes. He's currently just lying on his warm spot. As for the mouse, I guess I'll pick one up this Friday(that was the day he was fed before) and see how that goes. I really hope he eats it because I don't know what I'll do with it if he won't. Thanks again.

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If he doesnt eat the mouse you can keep the mouse in a Plastic tote or small $7 critter cage or old 10 gallon tank. Dont try cardboard as they will chew threw. You can throw any food in there for them for a week. Dry dog/cat food if you have some or some scraps from your dinner. A little shallow bowl or something that holds some water. Make sure there are a couple air holes for the mouse too.


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Originally Posted by Danya

I really hope he eats it because I don't know what I'll do with it if he won't. Thanks again.

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If he doesn't eat, seriously just buy a 6qt tub and the correct hides, and follow Deborah's guide here to a T. It will not go wrong, it's much cheaper to set up than a tank, and your snake will eat and grow while you figure out the rest of the "main tank's" husbandry!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-hatchling-101

I don't know how my parents would react to the mice, lol. The problem is, I would grow really attached to the animal in a week and I wouldn't have the heart to feed it to the snake, even though I know my snake needs its food. Yeah, if in a week or two he won't eat, I'll do the tub setup.

I'm happy to see you're open to learning and receptive to advice. Since you're concerned with your parents being unhappy about a mouse in the house I'm guessing you're young? So good on you for taking the constructive criticism maturely. We've seen MANY adults get all hurt and act like children if they were given any advice that wasn't sugar coated.

As for your original questions, the activity in the enclosure is due to stress. The animal is STRESSED to the max. Granted people and snakes are entirely different, try to put yourself into a similar human related situation. You'd be stressed, anxious, nervous, etc...
Also, snake brains are very simple and at this point all that snake is thinking is "don't get eaten". And since it hasn't had a chance to feel safe and secure yet, it is SCARED.
So, the behavior is directly due to stress and fear, things YOU can fix easily.

Don't get overwhelmed, we were ALL new once. Learn from mistakes and grow. We've ALL made mistakes with our animals and in life. It's how we learn and grow that matters...

Onto the mouse concern... first off hoppers are too small. BPs eat hoppers for the first 3-5 meals out of the egg and quickly are ready for bigger prey.

That being said, if the snake doesn't eat you have a few options:
1) keep the mouse in a tote, tank, etc... that it can't chew out of. Feed it, make sure it has water and offer again in a week.
2) throw it outside for a neighborhood cat, snake, etc...
3) ask the store if they'll take it back
4) humanely euthanize the mouse and freeze it for later


As for the part about you being frustrated that not all your questions were answered, sorry bout that.
Sometimes it's hard to remember everything from the thread, sometimes we forget.
There are lots of threads, lots of members, lots of questions.
We are all here willingly sharing our experience and knowledge, giving our time and doing it simply because we want to help people enjoy the hobby we love.

Anyway, I hope I helped you out. Feel free to ask any questions you may have. Keep learning from the right people and applying what you learn. You'll be a great snake keeper in no time!!

Yeah, I'm only 15 right now, thanks for the compliment! He's now acting more or less normal, at night hes active, in the daytime he either sits on his hot or cool spot. Only one problem, I think he thinks that if he goes under the cool hide, he'll be taken out because he stopped going into it, instead he sits on it. Do you think he'll start getting back into it soon? I'll get a live hopper this Friday(feeding day) and give it to him at night. Another member said that a hopper isn't a threat to a young ball python so you could leave it in the tank overnight(In their opinion). Any thoughts? I really hope he'll take it, because I'd grow attached to it really fast, haha. No hard feelings about my questions, I totally understand there's a lot of help to be given out. Thanks for reading! I hope to get a response soon! :-)

Going to make a quick edit on how things are going right now. Monty did decide to come back into his cave, so that's good. I had a lot of plans yesterday so I couldn't get a hopper, will be getting one in an hour or so. I bought a special hanging vine for him(which he absolutely loves), he sits on it like an Emerald Tree Boa or a Green Tree Python would, haha. He explores and climbs during the night and sleeps during the day(Behavior seems to be normal again). I've had bare minimum contact with him, just giving his enclosure a quick spray once a day and changing his water every other day. I did put a thin "blanket" over his cage which keeps it somewhat dark, and surprisingly keeps his humidity very well. Anyways that's it for now, will update after I offer him the hopper. Bye.

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Originally Posted by Danya

Going to make a quick edit on how things are going right now. Monty did decide to come back into his cave, so that's good. I had a lot of plans yesterday so I couldn't get a hopper, will be getting one in an hour or so. I bought a special hanging vine for him(which he absolutely loves), he sits on it like an Emerald Tree Boa or a Green Tree Python would, haha. He explores and climbs during the night and sleeps during the day(Behavior seems to be normal again). I've had bare minimum contact with him, just giving his enclosure a quick spray once a day and changing his water every other day. I did put a thin "blanket" over his cage which keeps it somewhat dark, and surprisingly keeps his humidity very well. Anyways that's it for now, will update after I offer him the hopper. Bye.

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If you haven't already bought it, I wouldn't buy a hopper. Hoppers are too small. Buy a small.adult mouse if you can.

Welp, already bought it... He was fed hoppers at XYZ, so I figured. He's approx. 100-120 grams, the hopper is 11 grams(I asked the lady to weigh it), so he'll be eating about 10% of his own weight. I heard that a ball python should eat 10-15% of it's own weight in a week. Now that I think about it, he hasn't eaten in over 2 weeks, so maybe I should have gotten a larger mouse. I'll get a larger one next time. Thanks for your reply.

Great news everyone! My BP did eat the hopper mouse! :D As soon as I dropped the mouse into the tank, he lunged right at it. Ate it in about 4 minutes and went right back into his hide. This takes a ton of stress of my back! Thanks to everyone who wrote to me! :)

Excellent !!!


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Guys, I have a question. Since I successfully got my snake to eat a live hopper, should I try and switch to frozen the next time I feed him, or should I try to get another live mouse? Any info is appreciated. Thanks!

Get him to eat live with you a couple times before trying to switch.

So, maybe once more? My parents told me that they'd only take me once more to get a live mouse. I hate not having a car, haha. Do you think I should try and feed him a frozen mouse before I try and feed live, or should I just stick to live for now? Thanks fro your reply.

Congrats he ate!!! No worries on the small size of they hopper, its gonna do the trick. Just go bigger next time.

I would offer live again in 5-7 days. At least get him eating consistently before trying to switch him. I would say at least 3 more live feedings.

Are you able to get to the store to buy the prey without your parents? By that I mean is it within a distance you could walk or ride a bike?

If not, maybe show this thread to your parents? Often times people simply don't understand the importance of certain things because it's something they never needed to learn. For example, I've never planted a flower garden, so I have no clue if certain products are important to a flower garden. However, if my niece or nephew got into flower gardens and taught me the importance of a certain fertilizer I'd happily drive them to the moon to pick it up if it was important to them.

Anyway, I'm glad your feeding was successful. Keep up the good work!!

Thanks, yeah next time i'll get a small adult mouse. :P Three more live feedings seems almost impossible. The store's not for from me, approx. 10 miles. The problem is I have to drive down a long highway without any bicycle walks which seems very unsafe. I'll definitely get at least 1 more live feeding, but I'll try and work on another 2.

At this point this thread is just me updating on stuff and asking questions. I need to figure out how to rename it, Haha. Anyways, I have a few questions about tub setups. I have a large tub for my snake's future because I'll hopefully start keeping more snakes in a few years(once I figure out how a BP works) and I'll probably keep all of them in tubs. When my snake grows up, I want to have all the knowledge on how tubs work so I'm going to ask some questions now. I was wondering if it is safe to use a ZooMed UTH on a tub because there's always a chance that the thermostat will break and the plastic will melt. Is there any way to totally prevent that or at least really lower the chances of that happening? I was also wondering if a tub can be too high for a BP because my tub is quite large in that aspect. Those are my only questions for now, all answers are greatly appreciated! :-)

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Originally Posted by Danya

At this point this thread is just me updating on stuff and asking questions. I need to figure out how to rename it, Haha. Anyways, I have a few questions about tub setups. I have a large tub for my snake's future because I'll hopefully start keeping more snakes in a few years(once I figure out how a BP works) and I'll probably keep all of them in tubs. When my snake grows up, I want to have all the knowledge on how tubs work so I'm going to ask some questions now. I was wondering if it is safe to use a ZooMed UTH on a tub because there's always a chance that the thermostat will break and the plastic will melt. Is there any way to totally prevent that or at least really lower the chances of that happening? I was also wondering if a tub can be too high for a BP because my tub is quite large in that aspect. Those are my only questions for now, all answers are greatly appreciated! :-)

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I don't use tubs, so won't be any help. You should start a new thread though, you'll get more replies. Good luck :)

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Originally Posted by Danya

At this point this thread is just me updating on stuff and asking questions. I need to figure out how to rename it, Haha. Anyways, I have a few questions about tub setups. I have a large tub for my snake's future because I'll hopefully start keeping more snakes in a few years(once I figure out how a BP works) and I'll probably keep all of them in tubs. When my snake grows up, I want to have all the knowledge on how tubs work so I'm going to ask some questions now. I was wondering if it is safe to use a ZooMed UTH on a tub because there's always a chance that the thermostat will break and the plastic will melt. Is there any way to totally prevent that or at least really lower the chances of that happening?

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a thermostat will lower the chance of something bad happening -- that's why you buy a high quality one that's unlikely to malfunction, like the Herpstats, or Vivarium Electronics' 'stats.

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Originally Posted by Danya

I was also wondering if a tub can be too high for a BP because my tub is quite large in that aspect. Those are my only questions for now, all answers are greatly appreciated! :-)

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I use a fairly large tub for my juvenile ball python, and I've used it since she was 59 grams. it's a 39x21x18 sterilite tub, and i currently have a CHE/UVB fixture attached to it to help keep the ambient temperatures where they should be. i also don't really use a UTH much because of the CHE - it makes a hot spot right beneath the CHE, negating a need for a UTH. only time i really use a UTH is to make the cold side go up some, which was an issue over the winter. not so much now that the temperatures have (sort of.... darn nature...) risen again.

i'm currently working on setting up a christmas tree tote (52x20x15) with a radiant heat panel and a UVB strip light. both are already installed, i'm just waiting to key it in to the right temps at the moment. Maze won't be in there for another month at least, maybe more depending on how life goes.

Thanks for your information! I'm probably going to invest into a JumpStart Thermostat soon because mine isn't the best. That's a pretty large tub, was your snake not stressed at all when it was that small? I currently don't really know the exact measurements for my tub but it's fairly large. How long do you think I should wait until moving my 5 month old(~110 gram) baby BP? Thanks for reading.

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Originally Posted by Danya

I was wondering if it is safe to use a ZooMed UTH on a tub because there's always a chance that the thermostat will break and the plastic will melt. Is there any way to totally prevent that or at least really lower the chances of that happening? I was also wondering if a tub can be too high for a BP because my tub is quite large in that aspect. Those are my only questions for now, all answers are greatly appreciated! :-)

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I would get Ultratherm UTH off reptilebasics. The Zoomed UTH reach a much higher temp when uncontrolled (125~130+ degrees), while ultratherms only reach about 110 or so, so it's much safer.

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Originally Posted by Danya

Thanks for your information! I'm probably going to invest into a JumpStart Thermostat soon because mine isn't the best. That's a pretty large tub, was your snake not stressed at all when it was that small? I currently don't really know the exact measurements for my tub but it's fairly large. How long do you think I should wait until moving my 5 month old(~110 gram) baby BP? Thanks for reading.

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I would not recommend going with a large enclosure like that anytime soon for how you are already having problems and are a new keeper still figuring things out. Large enclosures place many more factors into why a ball python might not be eating, might not be accepting f/t, or isn't behaving normally.

The most important aspect of even keeping a young ball python in a large enclosure is the necessity to add many hides, vines, and just a a lot of "clutter" on the ground to provide many, many hiding spots, "walls", and security for it. And if you don't get it "right", the ball python won't eat, or will have a harder time accepting f/t. And for a ball python who isn't already extremely foody and well-settled, you want to lessen the factors.

It's nice to hear about other people using big tubs for their ball pythons, but it's not necessary yet by any means. For your BP and your situation, I personally wouldn't even bother considering it until your BP is at least 800g+.

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Originally Posted by redshepherd

I would get Ultratherm UTH off reptilebasics. The Zoomed UTH reach a much higher temp when uncontrolled (125~130+ degrees), while ultratherms only reach about 110 or so, so it's much safer.



I would not recommend going with a large enclosure like that anytime soon for how you are already having problems and are a new keeper still figuring things out. Large enclosures place many more factors into why a ball python might not be eating, might not be accepting f/t, or isn't behaving normally.

The most important aspect of even keeping a young ball python in a large enclosure is the necessity to add many hides, vines, and just a a lot of "clutter" on the ground to provide many, many hiding spots, "walls", and security for it. And if you don't get it "right", the ball python won't eat, or will have a harder time accepting f/t. And for a ball python who isn't already extremely foody and well-settled, you want to lessen the factors.

It's nice to hear about other people using big tubs for their ball pythons, but it's not necessary yet by any means. For your BP and your situation, I personally wouldn't even bother considering it until your BP is at least 800g+.

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I have to agree with this. If you're already in the process of fixing your husbandry and experiencing difficulties, I would not try to go for a more ambitious set-up. Keep it simple and achievable and learn and understand the rules before you try to break them.

I admit I also started larger with tons of clutter, cover and multiple hides. My boy (I got him at 126 grams) has been doing absolutely phenomenal but what worked for me may not work for others and I definitely wouldn't recommend for new keepers to follow the same path when there are already existing problems. While there are some keepers who have been successful with hatchlings in larger set ups, I don't feel it's something that should be casually encouraged without considering troubleshooting and additional complications that may come with it. It has to be done properly to work with little room for error, and frankly not everyone knows how to do it right. Success also varies on snake to snake so it's not a one size fits all situation.

I second redshepherd's recommendation on holding off on anything larger until your bp has been an established eater and grown a bit in the 500-800 gram range, but this will vary how your snake's behavior develops over time.

Equipment wise, definitely consider Ulltratherm heatmats. For thermostats if you want to go about saving money for a higher quality one you might as well invest in Herpstats as Jumpstart isn't as accurate or have the same longevity and safety features as proportional thermostats. Especially if you're worried about it potentially failing on you unexpectedly, which Jumpstarts have a tendency of needing to be replaced within the same year you get it.

Yeah, my comment wasn't a reccomendation that you should do this, only that it can be done successfully. I would follow redshep's advice and get your current setup working properly for a few months (snake eating included) before doing anything upgrade-wise.

Larger setups are awesome -- but a lot harder to do right.

Thank you all for your great advice but I have some terrible news. I was taking out Monty out for a little checkup because I knew he was going to shed soon(I wanted to know what a snake close to shedding feels like) and I found two mites on him. I quickly got some warm water into his future tub(yes it was thoroughly cleaned before this) and plopped the snake in. In 20 minutes of soaking I found another mite in the water. After that I collected the now three mites into a jar and closed it. Next, I thoroughly washed out the tub and it's lid and made a little flower pot hide, got a new little bowl of water and placed paper towl as bedding. I will be following GoHerping's mite guide(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnJqt9Up2eI) to get the mites as soon as I can out of the original enclosure. Now, my question. I heated up my room to about 82 degrees(F) so it doesn't go below 78 degrees at night. How long will my snake be ok without a heat pad?I will order the spray(from the video) tonight so it might only come in a day or two. Any other advice? I'm so dissapointed because I was just going to start a feeding schedule with him and I find mites.

If the room is 82, your snake will be fine without any other heating for now.

I recommend this guide:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...it-with-AaronP


Or this guide:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I wrote this after my second battle with mites for people in the US. While other treatments, such as ivermectin injections and wiping the snakes with Frontline, do exist, I have not tried them so I've not included them in my own writeup. You can find out about Frontline at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwCA...&feature=share


Mite Eradication 101:


*** Permethrin ***


Permethrin comes in many forms - Provent-A-Mite (PAM), NIX/RID head lice treatment, Permethrin-10 from a livestock supply store, etc. Once mixed with water its half life is 30 days if kept out of direct sunlight.


PAM has several advantages. It has been tested for use with reptiles, and it comes ready to use. The disadvantages are that it's expensive and most reptile stores don't have it in stock, so you have to wait for it to be shipped to you if you don't have any on hand. Meanwhile the mites are busy feeding and breeding.


NIX/RID is cheaper than PAM and is readily available at WalMart, CVS, and other drug stores. It is also easy to dilute: mix one two ounce (59 ml) bottle of the cream rinse with one gallon of water.


At a dollar per ounce Permethrin-10 is the cheapest of the three options; one eight ounce bottle will make 240 gallons of solution, as only 6 milliliters of it are needed per gallon of water to make an effective mite spray. The upside is that if you have a lot of snakes to treat this will do it very economically. The downside is that it's all too easy to make too strong of a permethrin solution which can seriously injure or kill your snakes.


No matter which product you use, it must be used correctly. I've never applied any permethrin product directly onto my snakes as it's not needed for mite treatment, and permethrin poisoning in a snake can cause irreversible neurological damage or death.


Permethrin use: spray the enclosure, paper substrate, and hides with the diluted solution or PAM. DO NOT SPRAY THE WATER BOWL. Allow everything to dry completely before returning your snake to its home. Also keep a supply of treated and dried newspaper or paper towels and treated hides available so that when a snake makes a mess, you replace the soiled paper and hides with treated ones. Treat the enclosure every two to three weeks.


*** Natural Chemistry Reptile Spray ***


Reptile Spray kills mites on contact while wet, once it dries it loses its effectiveness pretty quickly. Reptile Spray is a solution of salts rather than an insecticide; it kills mites by dehydrating them. I don't spray the snakes as more ends up on the floor than on the snake. Instead, I spray a white paper towel with it and wipe it on the snake. That way you get even coverage on the snake, you can work it into the area under their chin really well as that's a favorite hiding place for mites, you don't stress out your snake, and you can look for mites on the paper towel to see how quickly they're being eradicated. Apply twice a week. Note - this stuff hurts like hell in an open wound.


*** Hot Shot No-Pest Strips ***


Some people take a Hot Shot No-Pest strip, cut it into pieces, put each piece into a small sealed container, poke some holes in the container, and put each container into the snake's enclosure. I've used the No-Pest strip but I just hang it in the snake room and close the door. Either way is effective, especially if you have a major outbreak.


If you do use it, remove the water bowls as the insecticide is strongly attracted to water and you don't want the snake drinking it. After 24 hours remove the strip (or pieces), put them into an airtight container for future use, air out the room, and put the water bowls back. Repeat treatment weekly.


Important! If you also keep tarantulas, feeder roaches/dubias, crickets, etc. do not use the No-Pest Strip as it can kill them too!!!!


*** Mild Dish Soap ***


One or two drops of mild dish detergent in your snake's bath water will break the surface tension and prevent mites from floating in the water so they drown. No more than that is needed, your snake should not look like it is taking a bubble bath.


*** Heat ***


Don't laugh, but a temperature of 135*F for five seconds will kill mites and the eggs. I purchased a heat gun used for stripping paint that can be set to blow hot air from 180*F through 1200*F. Using the heat gun and a temperature gun I heated the surfaces and crevices of my racks and enclosures to kill off any mite eggs that may have been laid outside the tubs. Don't get your enclosure surfaces and joined/glued areas too hot or you can damage them.


Mite treatment should continue for 30 days after you stop finding mites on your snake, as an egg can take that long to hatch.


*** FINAL NOTE ***


Effective quarantine means that you treat every new arrival as if it has mites, and new snakes are kept as far away from your established collection as possible for at least 90 days. I treat the quarantine enclosure, hides, and paper with permethrin a day or so before the new snake arrives, and I wipe it with a paper towel soaked in Reptile Spray as part of my inspection process when it comes out of the shipping box. If it has mites I will know it within a day or two at most. This also goes for snakes from "trusted" sources, my first mite outbreak ever came from someone I trusted.

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Here is where you can buy Prevent-a-mite

http://pro-products.com/provent-a-mite/


Here is another helpful thread with using Frontline spray as an alternative to Nix solution or Reptile spray

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-bugs!-(/page3


Just make sure you quarantine your bp for atleast 2-3 months while treating mites.

I'll invest into provent-a-mite too, I currently have EVERYTHING that was in my setup(no, not heat pads, haha) soaking in the bathtub fully submerged. It's been around 12-14 hours and I changed the water three times, so I'm guessing another bit and those mites and eggs will be fully drowned. Since my BP will probably shed today or tomorrow, when should I try and feed him? Thanks for all your replies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

Not going to be mean but this OP's thread is just ridiculous. How can you bring home a Living Thing and not have the first clue on what it needs...
Let me give a quick "wise guy" scenario, don't get upset but this is how silly & uninformed you sound..
.....i'll come pick you up even though you dont know me or expect it, take you back to my place, i'll rub you head and face even though you'll be nervous and flinch trying to get away. Then i'll prepare a nice Steak every couple hours and force feed you even though your scared as hell and in no way need to eat a whole Steak every couple hours....
Hmmm, wonder how many dates i'll get with this story [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23].
Im really not trying to come off like a jerk, i just want you to understand how ridiculous everything youve done is. This is not a dog, they will never "like" or crave attention from us. It does not want you to pet it.
Some snakes will tolerate us better than others, key word tolerate. Ball pythons will go Months & Months without eating at times. Dont ever try and Force Feed a healthy snake unless a Reptile Vet says your snake is starving and that would take a healthy snake over a year.. Of course a sick snake less time. You can rip teeth out, cause a infection or just stress a healthy snake so bad it will associate eating with something bad and go off feed.
Ball Pythons ARE HEAD SHY. This is one of the reasons why i said your post is so ridiculous. Why on earth do people assume Ball Pythons would enjoy their head being touched.....Well because they didn't properly research the animal in the first place.
In no way am i suggesting your a bad person, this isnt a personal attack but these are living things not Toys for our amusement.
Read up & research a animal before giving one a home, it is not fair to think we can do whatever we want at the expense of any other creature on this earth.


(PS) I just found out your 15 years old. This info should have been researched by your Guardian/Parents first before they allowed you to have a snake. I understand your younger and I dont want to upset you but please discuss all this with a adult so you can successfully take care of your snakes needs.


iPhone using Tapatalk

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Fine by me, there is a 15 year old kid with over 1000 BP's ($1,000,000 worth collection) i saw the other day on YouTube, and your right with the parents, get them involved as this could fun if you invest correctly or b costly if you don’t do it right

Information is FREE!! it kills me when you got on this site when you have an issue, none of us are prepare for issues. But if you do some research you would be surprised how fast you can take care of your problem. sometimes it’s just time ... like this issue, other times it calls for a professional opinion (like when I had to take Spell to the Vet for her burn) I did the same thing my 1st snake (10yrs ago) now with the information out here there is no reason why ppl find their snakes acting out or in bad condition. I just wanted to say thanks...
Reading this was hard to not be like "WTF"... But again you need a kick in the butt sometimes to get ya stuff in line

I just posted a new thread where I will be listing my current situation, and my current and future questions. Check it out: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...26#post2612726