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Very uncertian about doing this.
My breeder friend is wanting to breed Rainbow (sun tiger) with his boy (Jaguar Platinum sun tiger). I said I would consider it if and when she is of proper age and weight.
What are your thoughts on the pairing?
Issues with the pairing?
Go!
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Re: Very uncertian about doing this.
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Re: Very uncertian about doing this.
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you already made a thread like this.
i'll repeat what i said last time: if you have no intentions of breeding her, then don't.
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Well, here are the questions you got to answer for yourself.....
Are you willing to and can accept losing her due to complications?
Do you have all the stuff needed to incubate the eggs, house the babies and feed the babies until they are ready to sell?
Do you have the cash to feed all the babies that dont sell for 6 months....a year...maybe longer?
Throwing 2 snakes together and having them do the deed is the easy part. It's what comes next that is the work. kind of like people lol. Hopping in the sac with your lady friend is easy. Having to care for a screaming kid for 18 years is a whole other thing haha.
Now if your breeder friend is going to take on that task, then you still got to ask yourself are you willing to lose her to complications if they arise and i would assume you would need to move her caging and her to your breeder friends house unless he is going to come over and set everything up at your place and then come over all the time to check on everything.
If you had the male, i would say go for it as you would have the easy end of the job but since you got the female, you would have the workload end lol.
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Your snake is new to you , came to you under fed, and if I recall you were not 100% sure of her complete genetic background??
So many breeders producing so many snakes. Is this potential breeding going to improve any certain qualities or change anything in the retic world ? I’m still waiting to see someone here other than BCr with a retic that is older, as in over 10-15 years. Lots get into them but few keep them and why add to the pool?
I honestly would say no.
You guys just got the retic and boa. Enjoy them and concentrate on beautiful caging and long term care.
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I say never breed anything unless you are passionate about it, if you have any doubts, don't do it.
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Talking about breeding seems a little putting the cart before the horse, she is beautiful for sure but so little and new to her home I tell him thank you ever so much for the offer but I pass , but that just me and my mind process of why make a peaceful hobby a job and a pain in the rear ;)
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I would not say yes or no yet. I would re-assess once the female gets some age and size on her. From the other thread, the owner of the sire is taking on the work of incubating the eggs and keeping/selling the babies; OP is simply getting paid per viable egg laid.
So here are some things I would consider before moving forward:
- Is there a good reptile specialist veterinarian locally who could deal with the female if she became egg bound or there were other complications? Who is responsible for that vet bill?
- How would quarantine be handled, both when the female goes to the male and when she comes back?
- Who pays to feed the female while she's out getting knocked up?
- Is the owner of the male close enough I could drive to his place fairly easily?
- If the female retains sperm who owns the eggs from the subsequent clutch?
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Re: Very uncertian about doing this.
Having now asked a similar question now 2 times in 2 months should be enough to give you your answer. No, no, and heck no.
I've owned the giants in the past and now once again in my nearly 4 decades of exotic snake ownership. I've never asked myself the question of should I or shouldn't I on anything with my snakes. If I have even a sliver of doubt I default to no.
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Re: Very uncertian about doing this.
Truth is, I don't see any true benefit for doing it so most likely will not happen. Was asked if I would be willing and wanted to get educated on the dangers both genetically and physically for her. My number 1 devotion is to her health and safety. Please keep in mind that I am reading many articles and would also talk to my vet before doing anything. Education, education, education......... Also She is at least 2 or more years away from being healthy and proper size to breed. A lot can change between now and then.
If I did say yes to doing it, to answer a few questions asked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcr229
I would not say yes or no yet. I would re-assess once the female gets some age and size on her. From the other thread, the owner of the sire is taking on the work of incubating the eggs and keeping/selling the babies; OP is simply getting paid per viable egg laid.
So here are some things I would consider before moving forward:
- Is there a good reptile specialist veterinarian locally who could deal with the female if she became egg bound or there were other complications? Who is responsible for that vet bill?
- How would quarantine be handled, both when the female goes to the male and when she comes back?
- Who pays to feed the female while she's out getting knocked up?
- Is the owner of the male close enough I could drive to his place fairly easily?
- If the female retains sperm who owns the eggs from the subsequent clutch?
- Is there a good reptile specialist veterinarian locally who could deal with the female if she became egg bound or there were other complications? Who is responsible for that vet bill?
Yes I have a very good herp specialist here locally. I would have to care for any bills and needs of both her and the male.
- How would quarantine be handled, both when the female goes to the male and when she comes back?
The male would be provided to me at no cost. I would house, feed, and care for them both. I would own both.
- Who pays to feed the female while she's out getting knocked up?
Me.
- Is the owner of the male close enough I could drive to his place fairly easily?
He is 30 min drive from the house. Someone I have known over a year and half.
- If the female retains sperm who owns the eggs from the subsequent clutch?
Any and all eggs, offspring would be mine and my responsibility until he sells the offspring and I get 60/40 split profit. He provides the incubator and cares for the offspring after hatching. He sells them for me.
I ask questions because I want to learn. The more educated I am the better provider I will be. Just because I ask a question, doesn't mean I am walking that direction. It means I want to get educated!
Thanks everyone for advice given and will be given.
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Re: Very uncertian about doing this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyrivers
Truth is, I don't see any true benefit for doing it so most likely will not happen. Was asked if I would be willing and wanted to get educated on the dangers both genetically and physically for her. My number 1 devotion is to her health and safety. Please keep in mind that I am reading many articles and would also talk to my vet before doing anything. Education, education, education......... Also She is at least 2 or more years away from being healthy and proper size to breed. A lot can change between now and then.
If I did say yes to doing it, to answer a few questions asked.
- Is there a good reptile specialist veterinarian locally who could deal with the female if she became egg bound or there were other complications? Who is responsible for that vet bill?
Yes I have a very good herp specialist here locally. I would have to care for any bills and needs of both her and the male.
- How would quarantine be handled, both when the female goes to the male and when she comes back?
The male would be provided to me at no cost. I would house, feed, and care for them both. I would own both.
- Who pays to feed the female while she's out getting knocked up?
Me.
- Is the owner of the male close enough I could drive to his place fairly easily?
He is 30 min drive from the house. Someone I have known over a year and half.
- If the female retains sperm who owns the eggs from the subsequent clutch?
Any and all eggs, offspring would be mine and my responsibility until he sells the offspring and I get 60/40 split profit. He provides the incubator and cares for the offspring after hatching. He sells them for me.
I ask questions because I want to learn. The more educated I am the better provider I will be. Just because I ask a question, doesn't mean I am walking that direction. It means I want to get educated!
Thanks everyone for advice given and will be given.
Breeding loans, in general, make me very nervous. I've read many accounts of them going south even when people have thought they knew the person well.
If you do decide to go through with this, I would get everything in writing in a contract and get it notarized. I would also say documentation (eggs, offspring, etc.) would need to be very thorough. I'd also carefully document each hatchling with photo for ID purposes and have a list noting exactly what sex morph and have him sign (and even get it notorized) when you hand the hatchlings over for him to sell. I'd also want specifications on time-frame of selling, method, prices, and form of payment to you. If he is legit, he shouldn't have an issue with a strict contract, notorized photos / proof of offspring, etc. as that would protect both of you.
If I've read the above info correctly, the male would come and stay with you during the breeding process. You would need to quarantine before putting them together Would you actually "own" him afterwards or will he just be "loaned" to you (was not sure based on your response). Also, will the breeder be providing the male's cage / setup for you to use?
One other thing to consider is that possible vet bills could outweigh any profit you'd make.. Plus feeding the extra retic during breeding won't be cheap either. You said in your other response that you'd be responsible for the vet bills on the male also? it is not unknown for retics to get rough during breeding and medical attention to be required. This would be a lot of risk on you (financially). Also consider an aggressive male during breeding mode and having to transfer to cages, separate if they fight, etc. Hopefully you have 2-3 people that could help you with this should the need arise.
If it was me, I'd probably pass, but as you said, you've got 2 years to make up your mind. I'd use those 2 years to very carefully watch this breeder friend of yours and see how he handles business transactions, the condition of his animals, etc. I'm not saying he's a bad guy at all, but that will be enough time for you to get a good idea of how he does with business dealings and how he keeps his animals. It might also be wise to supervise a retic breeding and get experience handling aggressive adults between now and then. IMO, this breeding loan would leave you with most of the financial risk (actually all of it, save feeding the babies) so that is something to be considered.
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Re: Very uncertian about doing this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgecko
Breeding loans, in general, make me very nervous. I've read many accounts of them going south even when people have thought they knew the person well.
If you do decide to go through with this, I would get everything in writing in a contract and get it notarized. I would also say documentation (eggs, offspring, etc.) would need to be very thorough. I'd also carefully document each hatchling with photo for ID purposes and have a list noting exactly what sex morph and have him sign (and even get it notorized) when you hand the hatchlings over for him to sell. I'd also want specifications on time-frame of selling, method, prices, and form of payment to you. If he is legit, he shouldn't have an issue with a strict contract, notorized photos / proof of offspring, etc. as that would protect both of you.
If I've read the above info correctly, the male would come and stay with you during the breeding process. You would need to quarantine before putting them together Would you actually "own" him afterwards or will he just be "loaned" to you (was not sure based on your response). Also, will the breeder be providing the male's cage / setup for you to use?
One other thing to consider is that possible vet bills could outweigh any profit you'd make.. Plus feeding the extra retic during breeding won't be cheap either. You said in your other response that you'd be responsible for the vet bills on the male also? it is not unknown for retics to get rough during breeding and medical attention to be required. This would be a lot of risk on you (financially). Also consider an aggressive male during breeding mode and having to transfer to cages, separate if they fight, etc. Hopefully you have 2-3 people that could help you with this should the need arise.
If it was me, I'd probably pass, but as you said, you've got 2 years to make up your mind. I'd use those 2 years to very carefully watch this breeder friend of yours and see how he handles business transactions, the condition of his animals, etc. I'm not saying he's a bad guy at all, but that will be enough time for you to get a good idea of how he does with business dealings and how he keeps his animals. It might also be wise to supervise a retic breeding and get experience handling aggressive adults between now and then. IMO, this breeding loan would leave you with most of the financial risk (actually all of it, save feeding the babies) so that is something to be considered.
Thank you. This was very helpful.
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If in fact the deal is that you get to keep the male, I would include in the contract what happens if the female slugs out - or if she kills him (yes it happens).
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Re: Very uncertian about doing this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgecko
Breeding loans, in general, make me very nervous. I've read many accounts of them going south even when people have thought they knew the person well.
If you do decide to go through with this, I would get everything in writing in a contract and get it notarized. I would also say documentation (eggs, offspring, etc.) would need to be very thorough. I'd also carefully document each hatchling with photo for ID purposes and have a list noting exactly what sex morph and have him sign (and even get it notorized) when you hand the hatchlings over for him to sell. I'd also want specifications on time-frame of selling, method, prices, and form of payment to you. If he is legit, he shouldn't have an issue with a strict contract, notorized photos / proof of offspring, etc. as that would protect both of you.
If I've read the above info correctly, the male would come and stay with you during the breeding process. You would need to quarantine before putting them together Would you actually "own" him afterwards or will he just be "loaned" to you (was not sure based on your response). Also, will the breeder be providing the male's cage / setup for you to use?
One other thing to consider is that possible vet bills could outweigh any profit you'd make.. Plus feeding the extra retic during breeding won't be cheap either. You said in your other response that you'd be responsible for the vet bills on the male also? it is not unknown for retics to get rough during breeding and medical attention to be required. This would be a lot of risk on you (financially). Also consider an aggressive male during breeding mode and having to transfer to cages, separate if they fight, etc. Hopefully you have 2-3 people that could help you with this should the need arise.
If it was me, I'd probably pass, but as you said, you've got 2 years to make up your mind. I'd use those 2 years to very carefully watch this breeder friend of yours and see how he handles business transactions, the condition of his animals, etc. I'm not saying he's a bad guy at all, but that will be enough time for you to get a good idea of how he does with business dealings and how he keeps his animals. It might also be wise to supervise a retic breeding and get experience handling aggressive adults between now and then. IMO, this breeding loan would leave you with most of the financial risk (actually all of it, save feeding the babies) so that is something to be considered.
This should be fun. I asked my friend about helping him out with his breeding projects this year. Going to get some hands on experience with moving them around and pairing them, etc. Is going to be fun. He has big girls and boys. Also he said I can help him with egg removal when it is time. He has one girl ready to pop any day now. Hope for good experience and education in the process.
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