ASF feeding

Hey all, I have a question for you more experienced ASF breeders. I started my first two colonies last week and built my rack using 1/4" hardware cloth. I would like to feed them Mazuri pellets on top of the hardware cloth like you see most domestic rat racks set up. However, I was concerned that they might not be able to eat through the 1/4" cloth so I built some feed hoppers out of 1/2" cloth. They eat out of those fine, but of course they crawl on them and I don't think it is very sanitary.

My main question is, have any of you had issues with feeding through the 1/4" mesh top screen? I am just afraid if the food is too hard to get to they might decide to try and chew out the tubs. Thanks in advance.

Here is a couple photos of my set up.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d32194251a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...71e9cddec0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...300e270346.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2f383f5f7e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a3c0c42e8d.jpg

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They can eat just fine through 1/4 inch hardware cloth that what I used .

i have rats but same deal with the 1/4" mesh, non of my rats could get to it, so what i did was trimmed out bigger holes using very small wire cutters so that where i cut it the mesh would not have any hanging shards. (i had a rat destroy its upper pallet due to my initial go at doing this with thicker wire cutters) what i did was make 1/2" wide by 1 1/2" strips where i put the food and i never made two rows right next to each other so that that they would hold up and no one can starch the wire to get out. so that would be a 1/4" squares to separate each strip where they can get at the food. i hope this helps, if you need a better description ill try to post pics but it seems to be a chore to do on here

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Originally Posted by Deborah

They can eat just fine through 1/4 inch hardware cloth that what I used .

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Deborah did you use 1/4" on you feed outs as well?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scherf

i have rats but same deal with the 1/4" mesh, non of my rats could get to it, so what i did was trimmed out bigger holes using very small wire cutters so that where i cut it the mesh would not have any hanging shards. (i had a rat destroy its upper pallet due to my initial go at doing this with thicker wire cutters) what i did was make 1/2" wide by 1 1/2" strips where i put the food and i never made two rows right next to each other so that that they would hold up and no one can starch the wire to get out. so that would be a 1/4" squares to separate each strip where they can get at the food. i hope this helps, if you need a better description ill try to post pics but it seems to be a chore to do on here

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That is good for full size rats but I have read hopper ASF rats can squeeze through 1/2" hardware cloth so I don't think this suggestion would work well in an ASF enclosure. Thanks for the input though.

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Originally Posted by Cornfed_Constrictors

Deborah did you use 1/4" on you feed outs as well?

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I did for ASF and Mice and 1/2 inch for rats and never had an issue. The problem with feeding from the top and using 1/2 inch hardware cloth with ASF is that the babies will escape.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

I did for ASF and Mice and 1/2 inch for rats and never had an issue. The problem with feeding from the top and using 1/2 inch hardware cloth with ASF is that the babies will escape.

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I am gonna rock it then, thanks Deborah.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f6b5a50832.jpg

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i had no idea that ASF's could get through holes that small. thats wild lol

I use 40 gal Breeders for all my ASF's with Screened tops. They chew through anything else ive tried. They won't necessarily get through a tub but I've had them literally naw a hole right in the flat plastic floor of one. My feeder bins are inside the enclosure and are 1/2" hardcloth. They have a lid on them made out of the hard cloth that I flip open to add more food..just use a little wire to make a hinge. I also made holders for my water bottles with the hardcloth however after a few months they found out how to get to a little piece of the plastic water bottle even through the hard cloth so I now i use all glass bottles.
As far as breeding I don't care what anybody tells you on the Internet you'll only get 3 to 4 good litters (12-24) out of them & after that they drop to 5-6 or they just kill/eat them. I don't know why but I've tried it different ways over and over and the best way is to use a female to get 3-4 litters then keep a couple of her pups from the second litter to replace her after.
I feed lab block too. I use Pine Pellets for bedding with a handful of shredded newspaper for them to build a nest. They wont breed until 2.5 months and pups are weaned at 3 weeks. If you dont get the pups out at 3 weeks they will crush the pinkies for that week as the cycle is about every 24 days. Ive never been able to have for than 3 females to a enclosure as pups are born at different times so the younger ones always get smooshed and suffocated from the bigger ones. The best breeding that I've ever had is one male to 2 females in each enclosure and it works perfect without losing a bunch of pinkies each month and feeding another female for no reason.
If you need any info you can PM me. Ive got hundreds.


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You can see the 1/2" hardcloth feeders i make. Ive realized whether you use feeders or you just put it on the floor they go through the same amount of food. When the foods in in a feeder they spend all night trying to chew and get the food out not even eating it. if I just put piles on the floor they don't tend to chew at it and grind it up as much. The feeder almost becomes a game for them. As far as the towels, I use them on the Breeder enclosures not Grow out. They are nervous creatures and without a dark private side to nurse the Litters they sometimes kill/eat them. Once you understand their habits you can breed successfully, but not understanding them you can loose them all. They are not like Norway Rats at all.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2e44aedfba.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8935be90f6.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b2880797b3.jpg
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When I had ASF in my ARS rat breeder bins it didn't work so well, I think the food hoppers on top were a bit too high for them. I actually used a couple 6 inch pieces of 2x4 lumber with a rubber band to hold them together, it gave them a step up to the food and I used another one for the water. I finally put them in ARS mouse bins that worked much better because the bins were not as deep. My wooden blocks would get solid after awhile so I started wrapping them in newspaper which worked pretty good until I got my mouse rack. If the food is too high above the ASF they won't get to it as well as rats and mice. My baby mice will jump up and hang from the mesh above and eat upside down, the ASF won't do that. For my ASF I always but a few Mazuri blocks directly in the tub for the little ones so they could eat until they were tall enough to get to the food above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

I use 40 gal Breeders for all my ASF's with Screened tops. They chew through anything else ive tried. They won't necessarily get through a tub but I've had them literally naw a hole right in the flat plastic floor of one. My feeder bins are inside the enclosure and are 1/2" hardcloth. They have a lid on them made out of the hard cloth that I flip open to add more food..just use a little wire to make a hinge. I also made holders for my water bottles with the hardcloth however after a few months they found out how to get to a little piece of the plastic water bottle even through the hard cloth so I now i use all glass bottles.
As far as breeding I don't care what anybody tells you on the Internet you'll only get 3 to 4 good litters (12-24) out of them & after that they drop to 5-6 or they just kill/eat them. I don't know why but I've tried it different ways over and over and the best way is to use a female to get 3-4 litters then keep a couple of her pups from the second litter to replace her after.
I feed lab block too. I use Pine Pellets for bedding with a handful of shredded newspaper for them to build a nest. They wont breed until 2.5 months and pups are weaned at 3 weeks. If you dont get the pups out at 3 weeks they will crush the pinkies for that week as the cycle is about every 24 days. Ive never been able to have for than 3 females to a enclosure as pups are born at different times so the younger ones always get smooshed and suffocated from the bigger ones. The best breeding that I've ever had is one male to 2 females in each enclosure and it works perfect without losing a bunch of pinkies each month and feeding another female for no reason.
If you need any info you can PM me. Ive got hundreds.


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Do you have any pictures of the size your pups are at the three week mark? One of the colonies I purchased had pinkies included so I am not exactly sure how old they are. I am enjoying them so far. They are interesting to watch.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

When I had ASF in my ARS rat breeder bins it didn't work so well, I think the food hoppers on top were a bit too high for them. I actually used a couple 6 inch pieces of 2x4 lumber with a rubber band to hold them together, it gave them a step up to the food and I used another one for the water. I finally put them in ARS mouse bins that worked much better because the bins were not as deep. My wooden blocks would get solid after awhile so I started wrapping them in newspaper which worked pretty good until I got my mouse rack. If the food is too high above the ASF they won't get to it as well as rats and mice. My baby mice will jump up and hang from the mesh above and eat upside down, the ASF won't do that. For my ASF I always but a few Mazuri blocks directly in the tub for the little ones so they could eat until they were tall enough to get to the food above.

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I am positioning the roof of my hides under a portion of the top screen to help with the height issue. I picked up some cheap flower pots at the dollar store and made them into hides. They seem to like them.

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Their really cool to watch. I call the weaned pups popcorn chicken lol. They pop right off the ground & i cant help but laugh. I'll look and see if i have. Pick of three weeks otherwise in 10 days i have about 80 that will be weaned at 3 weeks.
Also If your mom has another litter you will know your pups are about 3.5-4 weeks. Not a difference in size from 3-4 weeks, they are slow to grow. Once they are 6 weeks they are the size of a small adult mouse. 2 months a full grown mouse. Males are noticeably bigger than females once they're over 4 weeks too.


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Here is one of the food hoppers that I built out of 1/2". I removed them for now to see if they would eat ok through the 1/4" mesh. I will put them back in if I think they are having problems. I plan to put them in my growouts, but if my breeders can eat through the 1/4" ok that is my preference.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f94497a2cc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...efff639bb1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...379ecc0e7f.jpg

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PS- if they are covered in sparing fuzzy hair without skin they are a week. If they are totally covered in hair they are over a week
The 1st pic is 4 days old.
The 2nd3rd pic is 11 days.
Once they get a pointed rodent head/nose they are going on 3 weeks. Under that age they look like rounded puppy dogs faces.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8e19cfbd54.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ae59b56f44.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b3db84c0ef.jpg



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cornfed_Constrictors

Here is one of the food hoppers that I built out of 1/2". I removed them for now to see if they would eat ok through the 1/4" mesh. I will put them back in if I think they are having problems. I plan to put them in my growouts, but if my breeders can eat through the 1/4" ok that is my preference.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f94497a2cc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...efff639bb1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...379ecc0e7f.jpg

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You would have to hang those feeders. once they eat around the sides and top they won't be able to get any food unless the ffoods able to fall so they can eat from the bottom.
The one thing you never want to do is have breeders that struggle to get food. Asf's will eat all the babies within a hour up to a week old if food is hard for them to get too. As cute as they are they are spawns of evil lol. They will bite the hell out of you and kill there pups or any ASF you try to put in their enclosure. Im sure you have already heard this. I tried it as most of what i read ws wrong but that was not. They will kill and eat a asf that isnt theirs or that isn't a part of their colony. You must raise a pup with the mother to introduce another breeder or you can start a new colony from adding 3-4 week old pups together in a new enclosure


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

PS- if they are covered in sparing fuzzy hair without skin they are a week. If they are totally covered in hair they are over a week
The 1st pic is 4 days old.
The 2nd3rd pic is 11 days.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8e19cfbd54.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ae59b56f44.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b3db84c0ef.jpg



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That helps, thank you[emoji16].

How many pups do you typically notice from your first time females? I have 10 babies right now in my "DeKalb" colony, both females are supposed to be first time mothers and each had a 5 pup litter at what appears to be about a week apart judging by your photos.

My colonies are in trios right now. You are saying your best results have been from 1.2. From my first generation of babies I was planning on growing out 2 females for a 1.4 within the "DeKalb" colony. Then I was going to take the other brothers and sisters and grow them out separate as a new colony at 1.4 but sound like maybe I should start the new colony as a trio? The rest I plan to grow out as feeders.

How does my plan sound, would you do anything different? My goal is to have 4 breeder colonies and one grow out for males and one for females in my current rack system.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

You would have to hang those feeders. once they eat around the sides and top they won't be able to get any food unless the ffoods able to fall so they can eat from the bottom.
The one thing you never want to do is have breeders that struggle to get food. Asf's will eat all the babies within a hour up to a week old if food is hard for them to get too. As cute as they are they are spawns of evil lol. They will bite the hell out of you and kill there pups or any ASF you try to put in their enclosure. Im sure you have already heard this. I tried it as most of what i read ws wrong but that was not. They will kill and eat a asf that isnt theirs or that isn't a part of their colony. You must raise a pup with the mother to introduce another breeder or you can start a new colony from adding 3-4 week old pups together in a new enclosure


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I had them hanging but they are kind of a pain because they get in the way when sliding the tubs out of the rack so then I put them on the floor and that's when they started messing in their own food. Gross.

I think I might design one that is smaller and fits over the front lip of the tub and hangs down. Kind of like the tank ones in the sticky.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Scherf

i had no idea that ASF's could get through holes that small. thats wild lol

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Babies ASF are as small as baby mice so 1/2 inch hardware cloth means they can escape just like mice can ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cornfed_Constrictors

That helps, thank you[emoji16].

How many pups do you typically notice from your first time females? I have 10 babies right now in my "DeKalb" colony, both females are supposed to be first time mothers and each had a 5 pup litter at what appears to be about a week apart judging by your photos.

My colonies are in trios right now. You are saying your best results have been from 1.2. From my first generation of babies I was planning on growing out 2 females for a 1.4 within the "DeKalb" colony. Then I was going to take the other brothers and sisters and grow them out separate as a new colony at 1.4 but sound like maybe I should start the new colony as a trio? The rest I plan to grow out as feeders.

How does my plan sound, would you do anything different? My goal is to have 4 breeder colonies and one grow out for males and one for females in my current rack system.

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If you got 5 Pinkies out of each female right now then 1 of three things i can think of.

1) they arent the first litter as that happens after 4 litters. Then count drops and you have to replace the female.

2) The food conditions or stress caused them to eat the other 5-10 of them when they were born.

3) Or Its a bad line of ASF's.

I have a feeling (as most people dont like to sell their ASF's to someone that wants to breed because they are already hard to get) that your mothers are the guys EX Breeders so he sold them to you as he was done with them after 3-4 litters... If you have litters of 5 those females are no good OR they ate all the other babies. I think you better keep pups and start a brand new colony to see.
I get a minimum of 15-24 in each litter of my good breeders. My all white ASF's (bad line) have 8-12 pinkies for the first 3 litters.
After the first 3 litters 2 of three things start to happen. They start killing or eating babies or the litter size drops to 5/8.
You cant afford to have litters of under 10 or you will never get anywhere and you're actually feeding and cleaning which will cost you 10 times as much as it would've if you bought feeders at a pet store. So you have to get a good line of ASF's and your Husbandry has to be spot on with these guys. There just nothing like any other rodent. I've had times where months go by and I practically lost all my colonies when things went bad so I had to almost start over. Only keep a Pup that you want to turn into a breeder from a female that has huge litters (15-24) otherwise you will end up with a breeder that has bad genes and small litters.
I cant stress enough the privacy and food they need or all hell breaks loose.

As far as the size, my best luck is 2.1. Even doing 3.1 i had the 3rd females loos 1/2 the pinkies. They dont feed their pups separately. They all share the same Nesting spot so a 2 week old pup will smoosh a 1 week old pup within a day. I always ended up pulling 12-15 dead babies out. Thats a Pain in the butt. You dont want to keep going into these enclosures as they stress easy when they are feeding their pinkies.
I go in once a week to refresh water and food and i have 40 pups a enclosure every 3.5 weeks.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

If you got 5 Pinkies out of each female right now then 1 of three things i can think of.

1) they arent the first litter as that happens after 4 litters. Then count drops and you have to replace the female.

2) The food conditions or stress caused them to eat the other 5-10 of them when they were born.

3) Or Its a bad line of ASF's.

I have a feeling (as most people dont like to sell their ASF's to someone that wants to breed because they are already hard to get) that your mothers are the guys EX Breeders so he sold them to you as he was done with them after 3-4 litters... If you have litters of 5 those females are no good OR they ate all the other babies. I think you better keep pups and start a brand new colony to see.
I get a minimum of 15-24 in each litter of my good breeders. My all white ASF's (bad line) have 8-12 pinkies for the first 3 litters.
After the first 3 litters 2 of three things start to happen. They start killing or eating babies or the litter size drops to 5/8.
You cant afford to have litters of under 10 or you will never get anywhere and you're actually feeding and cleaning which will cost you 10 times as much as it would've if you bought feeders at a pet store. So you have to get a good line of ASF's and your Husbandry has to be spot on with these guys. There just nothing like any other rodent. I've had times where months go by and I practically lost all my colonies when things went bad so I had to almost start over. Only keep a Pup that you want to turn into a breeder from a female that has huge litters (15-24) otherwise you will end up with a breeder that has bad genes and small litters.
I cant stress enough the privacy and food they need or all hell breaks loose.

As far as the size, my best luck is 2.1. Even doing 3.1 i had the 3rd females loos 1/2 the pinkies. They dont feed their pups separately. They all share the same Nesting spot so a 2 week old pup will smoosh a 1 week old pup within a day. I always ended up pulling 12-15 dead babies out. Thats a Pain in the butt. You dont want to keep going into these enclosures as they stress easy when they are feeding their pinkies.
I go in once a week to refresh water and food and i have 40 pups a enclosure every 3.5 weeks.


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I have no idea if the line is good or not, it's the only one I could find after looking for about a month. I had to drive 3 hours one way to get the colonies that I got so I am happy to have some at this point.

I do know that they have not eaten any of the second litter because the second litter was born under my care. I was hoping that they were young because I was told that they were first time breeders by The guy that U got them from. He also told me his ASFs have a small first litter and then bigger subsequent litters. It made sense to me so I didn't really question it.

I have at least 2 more pregnant females in the other 2 colonies so maybe one of those will give me higher numbers. They look to be of a separate gene pool just due to obvious differences in coloration. Let's hope that they are as prolific as yours!

I will work what I have and try and improve upon it until I find better stock or dial in on some better producing females from my current stock. So far for me these ASFs have been a lot of fun. I was not expectng to enjoy them as much as I am. I really do appreciate your help. Thank you for taking time out of your day to help me.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cornfed_Constrictors

I have no idea if the line is good or not, it's the only one I could find after looking for about a month. I had to drive 3 hours one way to get the colonies. I was hoping that they were young because I was told that they were first time breeders by The guy that U got them from.

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The guy I got them from? If you mean the Newburgh area ASF's? That line are the ones that were a nightmare for me.
I then got my others from Northern NY from a guy that only sells Male Feeders so I paid big money for a few Females and Males and these produce 3 times as many as the White line from Downstate.
The ones i breed now are almost solid Colors as all the down state whites ate their babies and had tiny litters. What state are you in?



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Not sure how far Syracuse is from you but id give you a few Solid Gray or Grey/Beige for good Gene breeding if your ever this way.


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That was a typo. Meant to say "I" not "U".

I am in Indiana. Syracuse is too far for me, but thank you for the offer.

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Not sure if you know this or not but African Soft Fur rats are on the Lacy Act and it's illegal to transport them across state lines. If no one breeds them in your state they can literally go 'extinct' in that state.

Also, ASF are OBSESSED about running on wheels! If you have them in aquariums you absolutely need to get a wheel, they will run on that thing like it's their duty in life LOL. I removed the pregnant females so the babies wouldn't get caught up in the wheels though. Here are a few photos of back when I had ASF:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach....com/ASF-1.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach....com/ASF-2.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach.../ASFbabies.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

Not sure if you know this or not but African Soft Fur rats are on the Lacy Act and it's illegal to transport them across state lines. If no one breeds them in your state they can literally go 'extinct' in that state.

Also, ASF are OBSESSED about running on wheels! If you have them in aquariums you absolutely need to get a wheel, they will run on that thing like it's their duty in life LOL. I removed the pregnant females so the babies wouldn't get caught up in the wheels though. Here are a few photos of back when I had ASF:

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach....com/ASF-1.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach....com/ASF-2.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach.../ASFbabies.jpg

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Your are correct in all that you said about them loving them however those wheels are a death trap period. I had mangled Asf's all over from them. It also has screwed up breeding for some people as all they wanted to do is run & fight over wheels. One of mine would get caught in them but the others would still run as it spun them around breaking limbs and tales and faces.


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Hey check this one out @CALM Pythons. I came home from a business trip to find that one of my females dropped a 21 rat litter! Looks like I know where my new breeding stock is coming from! #pumpedhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...21771727d9.jpg

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I made up some new grow out tanks today. No risk of chew outs and plan to just shop vac old bedding out. Plenty of room for expansion!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...12f4037705.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...8a1bcae637.jpg

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Hello Cornfed Constrictors, I have a ball python and asf rats are extremely expensive where I am . But, I'm thinking about beginning to breed them. However I need to make a spreadsheet so I can know if it'll be worth the investment. How much food would a 1:2 ratio go through a month in pounds approximately? p.S. I love watching your asf rat videos you are extremely well informed.