Difference between black head and woma?

I've been contemplating getting either a black headed python or a woma as my next addition and have noticed that other than color and pattern, these two snakes seem very similar to each other. What are the main differences between these two snakes? Temperment? Size? Appetite? Care requirements? Thanks.

They are very similar in terms of care as far as I know. Black head pythons are larger and more expensive than Womas. BHP average 5-10' and Womas average 4-6'

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

They are very similar in terms of care as far as I know. Black head pythons are larger and more expensive than Womas. BHP average 5-10' and Womas average 4-6'

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Wow, major size difference there, I like big snakes so I may lean towards a black head if I can find/afford one.

Aaaand I just looked up the price on black heads.... wow...maybe a woma then. Lol

There are also albino and axanthic black head pythons *drool*
From what little I know (having talked to Doug Price and Derek Roddy about 10 years ago) they are not the easiest to breed consistently which is a factor in the pricing staying high.
One of my dream species to own, probably never will but they are stunning in person!

Just looked those up... the axanthic is one of the most bad ass snakes I've ever seen. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Alter-Echo

Just looked those up... the axanthic is one of the most bad ass snakes I've ever seen. :bow:

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Should be at $1500 each !


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Both of these snakes come from Australia and it's against their laws to export them. So if you see some high end morphs down under you may not be able to get your hands on them. By the way, there's a Woma ball python and a Black Head ball python too, talk about confusing LOL.

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

Both of these snakes come from Australia and it's against their laws to export them. So if you see some high end morphs down under you may not be able to get your hands on them. By the way, there's a Woma ball python and a Black Head ball python too, talk about confusing LOL.

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I know, we are left scrounging up what the poacher manage to get through.

It's like water pythons, rare here, but there they keep them like we keep corn snakes, they are all over the place!

$1500 is peanuts to what they were 10 years ago
As far as I know, those morphs were established in the UK and have since been brought over to US

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

$1500 is peanuts to what they were 10 years ago
As far as I know, those morphs were established in the UK and have since been brought over to US

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And they probably got them from Germany, those sneaky Germans like to get their hands on all the good stuff.

Back when I kept carnivorous nepenthes plants, the new and rare (and usually illegal) species usually were "aquired" by German growers before being produced in large enough numbers to be sent abroad. Now if only they could do that with more blackheads... :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Alter-Echo

And they probably got them from Germany, those sneaky Germans like to get their hands on all the good stuff.

Back when I kept carnivorous nepenthes plants, the new and rare (and usually illegal) species usually were "aquired" by German growers before being produced in large enough numbers to be sent abroad. Now if only they could do that with more blackheads... :rofl:

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Talking about Germans ... ok Hitler wasn't strictly German .... ... but I read somewhere that Hitler bought the first Albino Boa or Albino Burm python for around £50,000 !?!?!

Not sure if thats in today's money or the 1940's equivalent...


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Talking about Germans ... ok Hitler wasn't strictly German .... ... but I read somewhere that Hitler bought the first Albino Boa or Albino Burm python for around £50,000 !?!?!

Not sure if thats in today's money or the 1940's equivalent...


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Well... there's a thing I did not know.... if only he stuck with reptiles instead of trying to burn the world down. Lol

Or maybe he just liked the fact that some boas look like they are sporting tiny mustaches?

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Talking about Germans ... ok Hitler wasn't strictly German .... ... but I read somewhere that Hitler bought the first Albino Boa or Albino Burm python for around £50,000 !?!?!

Not sure if thats in today's money or the 1940's equivalent...

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Where'd you hear this because I'm pretty sure that it isn't true (the price sounds correct though).
I'd have to read the section again to be sure but in the book Stolen World it describes how the first albino burm was obtained (and ended up going to Bob Clark). They weren't found until the 80s. Here is the story of the history of the first albino boa, also in the 80s: http://www.reptileinsider.com/showth...riginal-Kahl-s

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

Where'd you hear this because I'm pretty sure that it isn't true (the price sounds correct though).
I'd have to read the section again to be sure but in the book Stolen World it describes how the first albino burm was obtained (and ended up going to Bob Clark). They weren't found until the 80s. Here is the story of the history of the first albino boa, also in the 80s: http://www.reptileinsider.com/showth...riginal-Kahl-s

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I really can't recall ..... Just stuck in my mind about Hitler and the first white / albino Boa or Burm and the price ..


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In the states, that's more in the ballpark of a normal black-headed python with good bloodlines/lineage. I don't recall the prices quoted to me for axanthics/hets but it was high enough that the thought of buying any flew right out of my head, haha.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Should be at $1500 each !


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Originally Posted by Alter-Echo

Just looked those up... the axanthic is one of the most bad ass snakes I've ever seen. :bow:

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I've been thinking as well, BHP vs woma, and found BHP's are more pricey due to their sexual maturity taking a bit longer and low offspring numbers. Combine that with not being readily available at pet shops and you've got your answer as to why the price is higher than a woma.

That being said, we have some premiere BHP breeders who are very good at what they do, produce some incredible specimens, and quite frankly are easy to contact and inquire about their snakes and care. IMHO we get what we pay for.

I've also learned their husbandry is a little different and BHP's are less likely to nibble on you like the womas do LOL

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Originally Posted by BR8080

I've been thinking as well, BHP vs woma, and found BHP's are more pricey due to their sexual maturity taking a bit longer and low offspring numbers. Combine that with not being readily available at pet shops and you've got your answer as to why the price is higher than a woma.

That being said, we have some premiere BHP breeders who are very good at what they do, produce some incredible specimens, and quite frankly are easy to contact and inquire about their snakes and care. IMHO we get what we pay for.

I've also learned their husbandry is a little different and BHP's are less likely to nibble on you like the womas do LOL

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Interesting, so how does the husbandry differ between the two?

The major thing I found was the BHP's temps (warm side 90-95/cool 75-80) whereas womas like to be kept between 85-90/75-80, and both can tolerate night temps drops to 75.

I watch the K Brothers YouTube channel (BHP master breeders in Australia) and they mentioned the BHP's don't need a lot of humidity but the reading I've done suggests 50% is a good target for them. I will confirm with the breeder I choose at time of purchase naturally, but I like to research and best prepare as to have an educated conversation with the breeder instead of sounding like a dolt.

I was lucky enough to handle a BHP at Reptile Rapture when I visited them in February and was blown away...needless to say I think my mind was made up at that point I will add a BHP to my collection someday.

Axanthic lines in the us are different than the axanthic lines in Europe and they do not mesh. There are many different morphs both line bred (yellowjacket), recessive (axanthic), co-dominant (tiger) available in the Us. There are a lot more than listed above.
As far as womas go there is not much in the way of morphs like the black-heads but the different localities they originally came from carried greatly and although it is impossible to get locality specific womas here the melting pot of genes has made for some wild line bred stuff.
Keep in mind both black-heads and womas can change a great deal in looks from the time they hatch into adulthood. The most common change muddies their color and contrast making beautiful hatches into ugly adults. More selective breeders have for the most part line bred this trait out of their stock but unless you can see the parents you have no idea what the hatchling is going to look like when it grows up. Basically you get what you pay for. I have seen womas for as little as 250.00 and as high as 500.00. Black-heads as low as 750.00 and as high as 10k (morphs). These are current prices, 20 years ago they were 10k for womas and 20k for black-heads.
As far as physical differences between the two the black-heads do get larger to a point but the really big ones are big due to feeding bias and typically die young because of it. Healthy bhp's can be as small as 6". Womas typically top out at about 4.5 to 5 feet. Both are slender however the womas have a triangle shape to them whereas the blackheads are more cylindrical.
Care requirements are similar, bhp's like a little more humidity and a little warmer hot spot. As neonates bhp's are notoriously hard to get feeding. Womas not so much. Once eating however bhp's will literally eat anything you put in front of them. Both are known for being rather hardy.
If you want to see some stellar examples of bhp's check out Derek Roddy's stock. He has some beautiful womas too. Another greeter of exceptional womas is Art Aviles. There are also Facebook pages for bothers species. Black-headed pythons use, woman pythons use and aspedities keepers.
Hope this helps.

From what I was told the Western localities are more likely to be black and white and the Eastern localities are the reddish phases.

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Originally Posted by enginee837

Axanthic lines in the us are different than the axanthic lines in Europe and they do not mesh. There are many different morphs both line bred (yellowjacket), recessive (axanthic), co-dominant (tiger) available in the Us. There are a lot more than listed above.

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I didn't know there were two lines of axanthic! The person I was talking to at a show (I have his card somewhere), he imported the UK axanthic line here, so I guess that just muddies the waters even more.

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

From what I was told the Western localities are more likely to be black and white and the Eastern localities are the reddish phases.



I didn't know there were two lines of axanthic! The person I was talking to at a show (I have his card somewhere), he imported the UK axanthic line here, so I guess that just muddies the waters even more.

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Yes the western bhp's tend to be smaller, their blacks are more black and their banding is more cream/white with great contrast. One downside to this locality is they are almost exclusively reptile eaters in the wild sons neos they are very difficult to get feeding. As far as "normals" go the westerns are the most sought after and hardest to come by you are looking in the 2k+ range for one with proven breeding. There is only one person in the US to my knowledge that breeds pure westerns and that is Derek Roddy. I have one of his pure Lazic western females and am anxiously waiting for him to produce more so I can get her a boyfriend. The other line I am working with (also from Derek) are his yellowjacket lines which are 75% Lazik 25% Goergen (may have misspelled that name).
As for the axanthics, the European line in my opinion are not as clean and tend to muddy up as adults however even with the cost of shipping and importing they are much cheaper than US line axanthics. This coupled with the fact that there may be unscrupulous people trying to buy one and sell it as another can create problems if you are wanting to create a breeding program. Fortunately the BHP community is a rather small one so simply sticking to the people that have a good name will prevent these issues.

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Originally Posted by enginee837

Axanthic lines in the us are different than the axanthic lines in Europe and they do not mesh. There are many different morphs both line bred (yellowjacket), recessive (axanthic), co-dominant (tiger) available in the Us. There are a lot more than listed above.
As far as womas go there is not much in the way of morphs like the black-heads but the different localities they originally came from carried greatly and although it is impossible to get locality specific womas here the melting pot of genes has made for some wild line bred stuff.
Keep in mind both black-heads and womas can change a great deal in looks from the time they hatch into adulthood. The most common change muddies their color and contrast making beautiful hatches into ugly adults. More selective breeders have for the most part line bred this trait out of their stock but unless you can see the parents you have no idea what the hatchling is going to look like when it grows up. Basically you get what you pay for. I have seen womas for as little as 250.00 and as high as 500.00. Black-heads as low as 750.00 and as high as 10k (morphs). These are current prices, 20 years ago they were 10k for womas and 20k for black-heads.
As far as physical differences between the two the black-heads do get larger to a point but the really big ones are big due to feeding bias and typically die young because of it. Healthy bhp's can be as small as 6". Womas typically top out at about 4.5 to 5 feet. Both are slender however the womas have a triangle shape to them whereas the blackheads are more cylindrical.
Care requirements are similar, bhp's like a little more humidity and a little warmer hot spot. As neonates bhp's are notoriously hard to get feeding. Womas not so much. Once eating however bhp's will literally eat anything you put in front of them. Both are known for being rather hardy.
If you want to see some stellar examples of bhp's check out Derek Roddy's stock. He has some beautiful womas too. Another greeter of exceptional womas is Art Aviles. There are also Facebook pages for bothers species. Black-headed pythons use, woman pythons use and aspedities keepers.
Hope this helps.

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This is immensely helpful, thank you. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Alter-Echo

This is immensely helpful, thank you. :bow:

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You are welcome.
Disclaimer, although I should be breeding my womas this year and possibly even some of my black-heads I have zero experience with actual breeding and only about 3 years experience keeping them. Most of my knowledge came from Derek and some from research and books I have found. One in particular I believe is called Australian Pythons which covers husbandry as well as breeding for all of the aussie pythons.
If you are serious about getting either womas or blackheads I strongly suggest reaching out to Derek, he is a wealth of knowledge and is super friendly.
I will try to make a post in here with close up pics showing the differences between the womas and blackheads as well as some locality stuff.

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Originally Posted by enginee837

You are welcome.
Disclaimer, although I should be breeding my womas this year and possibly even some of my black-heads I have zero experience with actual breeding and only about 3 years experience keeping them. Most of my knowledge came from Derek and some from research and books I have found. One in particular I believe is called Australian Pythons which covers husbandry as well as breeding for all of the aussie pythons.
If you are serious about getting either womas or blackheads I strongly suggest reaching out to Derek, he is a wealth of knowledge and is super friendly.
I will try to make a post in here with close up pics showing the differences between the womas and blackheads as well as some locality stuff.

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First pic on is my western female the other two are my yellowjacket lines bhp'shttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...569db7bb37.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...29f7ff2b4b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...983650bfaa.jpg

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Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]Here are close up shots of the heads, as you can see the bhp head shape is a little more pointed and the womas heads can vary quite a bit even so far as having a different scale count.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e41e30a229.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0d3c49517e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e804e6836e.jpg

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Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]Here you can see how cylindrical the body of the bhp is as opposed to the triangular shape of the woma.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...105d971336.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d3152df9a8.jpg

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My god, your snakes are beautiful! :O

I actually have that book, Australian pythons, and have found it to be very helpful as I got it after getting my liasis fuscus and discovering that husbandry info on them is extremely hard to come by.

I didn't want to throw names around but yes, Derrick Roddy is one of the masters I spoke of, and sorry Engine837 I didn't want to drop your name and put you on the spot. You do have some incredible snakes in your collection..by the way..where are you located?

Thank you! Yeah, normally I would be hesitant to name drop as well but Derek has been very open to helping people new to the aspedities club. Hopefully I will be able to help add to the pool of responsible quality breeders out there.
I live in Peoria (a suburb near Phoenix) Az.