Fussy eater - do I give in or stand firm?

In November I purchased a hatchling ball python (b.d. August of 2017) from a breeder. She weighed 196 gms. and was in excellent condition. I was told she would eat either live or f/t and all went well for the first month. She took f/t with no hesitation and gained 30 grms. After 4 wks. she refused her meal, but struck, coiled and then left it. I wasn't concerned because a few days later she had a healthy shed. That was the last time she ate f/t. She seems interested, is active in her bin, strikes quickly, will stay coiled for a few moments, then crawls away.
After about 3 wks. of waiting her out, I reluctantly offered a live rat pup, she had it before it even hit the floor of her bin and consumed it with no problem. I REALLY don't want to get into the whole live prey thing, but nor do I want her to starve to death. Since mid November, I've tried to wait her out, but caved every time and eventually given her live prey, which she takes IMMEDIATELY. We are now in the midst of the longest wait yet and I don't know how to proceed. She now weighs 250 gms., down 12 grms. from what her best weight has been. Her last meal was a live pup offered Feb. 15. Do I continue with the "tough love" thing or resign myself to giving live prey..........which is a 45 minute drive (one way) in addition to just NOT being what I want to do.
Nothing in my husbandry has changed, why would she eat f/t with gusto for the first month, and then suddenly refuse?
My male is doing the same thing. He ate voraciously every week after I bought him in October (he was thin though) and has refused every offer of food since Feb. 4. I'm not as worried with him, he's still 250 grms. more than he was when I bought him and I do understand that some males will go off their food at this time of year. I thaw rats in hot water and offer while still very warm (exactly as I did from the beginning) I'm beginning to feel like a failed ball python parent. Do I just need to take some deep breaths and wait this out, or do I resign myself to feeding live.

12g isn't all that much to loose, it could've pooped that out. Have you tried the hair dryer method? If I recall correctly you warm the rodent with a hairdryer to about 100f and offer it. I'd also try thawing your rats in a plastic bag in some warm water.

At 250 grams the animal should not go of feed and should be a voracious feeder.

If you have not done so downsize (15 quarts tub max or 10 gallons tank) , if it already is in a 10 gallons tank go with a tub.

If the animal still do not resume feeding after a week in their new environment FEED WHAT WORKS (what YOU want is irrelevant). There is absolutely no reason why a healthy animal that is growing has not ate since November just because the food source is 45 min away or because you do not want to feed live.

If you don't feed a young growing animal that is voracious it's gonna become a viscous circle the less you will feed the less it will want to eat, it's not about what YOU want to feed it's about what the animal wants to eat.

If they both will eat live that's what they should be on for now until they are ready to be switch, obviously F/T is not working at this point.

I have an eat or starve philosophy when it comes to healthy animals and I haven't seen or heard of a healthy animal starving itself to death yet when food was offered consistently. If my snakes don't take their food from the tongs I leave the f/t prey item in the enclosure for an hour or two. If they haven't eaten it by then it goes to the next hungry snake. If your animal was previously eating f/t prey consistently I'd wait it out. If their temps are good, and the animal isn't losing much weight or showing other signs of illness, I figure they'll eat when they're ready. I had a BP that once went over a year without eating and he was just fine. I have a finicky albino carpet python that ate once when I first got her then didn't eat again for almost another two months. She was only 120g at the time. I kept offering food every 2 weeks and she eventually got with the program too. She's still a pita sometimes but she's definitely a more consistent feeder now. I've had kings go all winter without eating and even though I did offer a small live feeder to the kings after 3-4 months off feed that was years ago when I used to worry about them missing meals. Those days are long gone. Now, I'm a firm believer that the hunger ALWAYS wins in the end.

If it were me I'd pick up a half dozen live mice so you don't have to keep making the drive and keep them in a small tank with food and water bottle, maybe pick up one of those small scientific cages where you can feed rodent blocks from above. Mice stay pretty small and most likely won't outgrow your snake, and won't need to nurse like a rat pup. Try to get all females so they don't smell. I'd first try a fresh killed mouse euthanized with CO2 followed by a frozen thawed in the same feeding to see if you can convert. If the fresh killed doesn't work I'd wait a day or two and feed a live mouse just to keep him growing then try again with a pre-killed the next feeding. It helps to have multiple snakes so the uneaten rodents don't go to waste. You should be able to get him converted but I wouldn't stop offering live and putting him on a fast.

How are you prepping the frozen rodent ?

my guess is something is off with the temp and activity.

You waht thst food hot! Not cooked hot but hot just as a live one would be. As someone suggested using the hair dryer or if you have a heat lamp.

Also as someone suggested use a plastic bag to keeonthe rodent dry and retain all its smell.

I soak mine mine in cold sink water for an hour. Then I warm my sink faucet as high as it goes and it sits there for another 25 min or so then I grab w tongs and hot dog roast it under the heat lamp for a short stint again you don't want to "cook" the rodent but you want it hot. The snakensenses heat.

Also witgle the rodent around by the snake make it act live and it should be zero issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deborah

At 250 grams the animal should not go of feed and should be a voracious feeder.

If you have not done so downsize (15 quarts tub max or 10 gallons tank) , if it already is in a 10 gallons tank go with a tub.

If the animal still do not resume feeding after a week in their new environment FEED WHAT WORKS (what YOU want is irrelevant). There is absolutely no reason why a healthy animal that is growing has not ate since November just because the food source is 45 min away or because you do not want to feed live.

If you don't feed a young growing animal that is voracious it's gonna become a viscous circle the less you will feed the less it will want to eat, it's not about what YOU want to feed it's about what the animal wants to eat.

If they both will eat live that's what they should be on for now until they are ready to be switch, obviously F/T is not working at this point.

---

I think perhaps you misread my post. I didn't say she hasn't eaten since November, I said that the last time she ate f/t was in November. I offer her f/t every 7 - 10 days, she declines. She HAS had live prey,on 3 different occasions, the last one February 15th. It's not that I'm unwilling to drive the distance, it's because I'm not always able to during business hours. I appreciate your opinion though, thank you. And yes, she's already in a tub.

Thank you for your advice. It does get confusing, some have a casual approach and say not to worry if she's active, appears healthy and isn't losing weight, others have a different point of view. :)

Thank you Phillydubs,
I'm doing all the things you suggested, EXCEPT, I'm not putting the f/t in a plastic bag, just putting it directly into the water. I never thought about that removing the odor. Will definitely try that and see if it makes a difference, thank you.

Thank you cchardwick, she did happily take a fresh killed rat pup, even though it was 45 minutes before I got it home and offered it to her, I'm just mystified why she won't accept f/t, esp. since they're warmer than the f/t was when i offered it to her. And it's not that she won't strike, she strikes immediately, and wraps, but refuses to eat. Very odd!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B.P.'s 4me

Thank you Phillydubs,
I'm doing all the things you suggested, EXCEPT, I'm not putting the f/t in a plastic bag, just putting it directly into the water. I never thought about that removing the odor. Will definitely try that and see if it makes a difference, thank you.

---

No prob. Hope it helps. I think you are getting rid of or watering down the scent and offering a soaked rodent. I don’t know about you but I don’t want to eat some water down tasteless meal.

Imagine someone takes a slice of pizza soaks it in a bucket for an hour then hits it w a hair dryer and is like here good as new .... ummmm no thanks.

Zip lock all the way. Dry rodent. Full scent. I bet it does the trick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MD_Pythons

12g isn't all that much to loose, it could've pooped that out. Have you tried the hair dryer method? If I recall correctly you warm the rodent with a hairdryer to about 100f and offer it. I'd also try thawing your rats in a plastic bag in some warm water.

---

Thank you for your suggestion, I do thaw the rats in warm water and offer warm, it's not that she won't take them, she strikes and wraps immediately, but then leaves them. I don't have a hair dryer, but warm under a heat lamp for a couple of minutes. :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phillydubs

No prob. Hope it helps. I think you are getting rid of or watering down the scent and offering a soaked rodent. I don’t know about you but I don’t want to eat some water down tasteless meal.

Imagine someone takes a slice of pizza soaks it in a bucket for an hour then hits it w a hair dryer and is like here good as new .... ummmm no thanks.

Zip lock all the way. Dry rodent. Full scent. I bet it does the trick.

---

I actually towel dry them lightly before offering, and put them under a heat lamp for a couple of minutes, so they aren't wet. :-) I'm certainly going to try your zip lock suggestion though,can't believe that didn't occur to me, but saw one of the big breeders on youtube soaking rats in a bucket of hot water, no plastic bags there..... in retrospect, probably because they do so many at a time. Thanks so much. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by B.P.'s 4me

Thank you cchardwick, she did happily take a fresh killed rat pup, even though it was 45 minutes before I got it home and offered it to her, I'm just mystified why she won't accept f/t, esp. since they're warmer than the f/t was when i offered it to her. And it's not that she won't strike, she strikes immediately, and wraps, but refuses to eat. Very odd!

---

One of my Sumatran Short Tails is famous for doing that. My belief is, she has a hard time figuring out that she needs to swallow it head first sometimes. If your snake keeps biting and wrapping, you have it made! All you have to do is keep reheating the prey up with a blow dryer and offering it again. Sometimes you might have to heat it back up and re-offer a half a dozen times in a row, but she will eventually get it right...

One of my snakes can be a fussy eater at times. i've found that wriggling parts of the thawed rat after it's been wrapped by the snake's coils, such as pulling gently but consistently, from time to time, on the tail, or an exposed leg, with my tongs further helps to convince the snake that he's killing the rat in his coils. I'm just trying to simulate the actions of a dying rat. After a minute or so of that, I then cover the terrarium with a towel so he doesn't get distracted by what's happening outside the terrarium.

It just seems to focus his mind and give purpose to his efforts.

<><Ciao

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dadofsix

One of my snakes can be a fussy eater at times. i've found that wriggling parts of the thawed rat after it's been wrapped by the snake's coils, such as pulling gently but consistently, from time to time, on the tail, or an exposed leg, with my tongs further helps to convince the snake that he's killing the rat in his coils. I'm just trying to simulate the actions of a dying rat. After a minute or so of that, I then cover the terrarium with a towel so he doesn't get distracted by what's happening outside the terrarium.

It just seems to focus his mind and give purpose to his efforts.

<><Ciao

---

Yep I do that with my SD Retic and Dwarf SunGlow Boa :)

It's almost as though they grab it then go to sleep until I shake it a bit ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk