Feeding Live VS Frozen

I know that this has probably been covered, and that it is a controversial subject. I've been feeding my 3 month old BP live since I've had her, and she hasn't been injured because the rats are pups still. But I always watch over her when feeding anyways. Is it still dangerous to feed live if I spectate and assist if needed? I feel like live is more natural, and I prefer to. I just want to know if she's still in danger with me watching over her.

Be right back , just gonna get some popcorn :)



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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Be right back , just gonna get some popcorn :)



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admit it, you're really off to get the blow drier !!! :P

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Originally Posted by zina10

admit it, you're really off to get the blow drier !!! :P

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LMBO ^^^^


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From what I understand, it's *generally* a matter of opinion and snake preference. Since you're extremely vigilant and watch the whole thing, she should be fine- just make sure that your rats are well fed and watered and calm beforehand as they get larger. A feisty rat is an unsafe rat!

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Originally Posted by Bamboozle146

I know that this has probably been covered, and that it is a controversial subject. I've been feeding my 3 month old BP live since I've had her, and she hasn't been injured because the rats are pups still. But I always watch over her when feeding anyways. Is it still dangerous to feed live if I spectate and assist if needed? I feel like live is more natural, and I prefer to. I just want to know if she's still in danger with me watching over her.

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Yes, controversial subject for sure.

I will give my opinion and state some facts. Keep in mind, I am not telling you what to do or what you should do, just what I do and why.

I only feed F/T. I believe most snakes, especially young snakes, and even picky BP's can be switched to F/T. There are rare occasions where it won't happen, but I think many cases where it doesn't happen it has more to do with lack of patience and persistence, lack of desire, or it's a young snake and the owner/breeder just wants to make sure it eats.

Okay a fact: A live rat can injure, possibly badly, a BP, even if you are watching it happen. I think it's much easier to intervene when the snake is not interested in feeding and you just have to remove the rat. Not so easy when a snake gets a bad strike and/or the rat fights back, hurting the snake. What could you do while that is happening?

My opinion: Live feeding is more natural, but nature isn't always safe, convenient, or humane.

I think it's cruel to the prey item, I think it's dangerous to the snake, and it's downright inconvenient, especially if you have multiple snakes. Who wants to get a bunch of live rats, bring them home, etc. I just take food out of the freezer, defrost, and done. Plus, if my BP, for instance, who fasts in the winter, doesn't want to eat, what do I do with a live rat? I don't like babysitting rats, thank you.

Many people think snakes enjoy hunting and killing. They do it to eat, period. I do not believe they have the capacity to enjoy the kill. They are just hungry and doing what is necessary. We anthropomorphize animal behaviors often. We are very different than snakes, in many ways. Humans can enjoy killing something, even take pride in it, but snakes cannot.

All my snakes, a BP, a corn, and BCI, are healthy weights, eat F/T happily, and have their entire lives, or the majority. There are no ill effects to the snake feeding F/T and risks to feeding live.

I know some people are convinced that it's difficult to switch a snake over, and it can be. However, I have had experience switching an adopted adult BP (I believe wild caught as well), who only ate live, to switch to F/T. I know, that's one example, and it took a lot of persistence and time. However, it worked. Again, may not work in all cases, but I was determined. This was also many moons ago, so please don't test me on time it took, etc.

In my experience, most snakes switch no problem, provided the prey is appropriate size, frozen and then defrosted properly, and offered in a way the snake likes, which often means simulating that is alive.

Bottom line/Conclusion: I do not think there are many, if any, advantages to the snake by feeding live.

Again, my opinion, and I do not judge other people who hunt, fish, feed live prey to their snakes, etc. These are just things I don't do because I have trouble seeing any animal be hurt or killed.

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Originally Posted by Bamboozle146

I know that this has probably been covered, and that it is a controversial subject. I've been feeding my 3 month old BP live since I've had her, and she hasn't been injured because the rats are pups still. But I always watch over her when feeding anyways. Is it still dangerous to feed live if I spectate and assist if needed? I feel like live is more natural, and I prefer to. I just want to know if she's still in danger with me watching over her.

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I hate frozen. I fed it twice this week. Thats a long story so i'll stick to the thread. What your feeding now is ok, really no risk as pups. As soon as you move up to the next size it can be a problem. I feed Rats and ASF's and i gas them all first. (Fresh kill) Ive seen the rats teeth get stuck on a plastic hide and actually leave marks. That would go threw a snake like a hot knife threw butter. It isnt that the snake cant constrict it fast enough, its that while gasping for air the Rats open and close their mouth and their teeth bite down on anything as they struggle. You also have Rats that will fight to death also.. With all of that said, nothing to me is worth a injury to your snake and Vet visit. Thats would stress me out beyond belief. These Snakes are my buddies.
I also breed my own Rats for feeders and have 4 as pets also.. Ive seen the damage they can do and its no joke. A Rat bite is 20 times worse than a Ball Python bite.
Try Fresh Kill if frozen isn't something you want to do. Frozen is nasty as hell i think, but crazy cost effective. Mine will take frozen as long as they are 100 degrees.. So its a option for most healthy snakes that have a good living environment. My2Cents


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Originally Posted by dakski

Okay a fact: A live rat can injure, possibly badly, a BP, even if you are watching it happen. I think it's much easier to intervene when the snake is not interested in feeding and you just have to remove the rat. Not so easy when a snake gets a bad strike and/or the rat fights back, hurting the snake. What could you do while that is happening?
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BOOM *
On the money[emoji1362]



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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

I hate frozen. I fed it twice this week. Thats a long story so i'll stick to the thread. What your feeding now is ok, really no risk as pups. As soon as you move up to the next size it can be a problem. I feed Rats and ASF's and i gas them all first. (Fresh kill) Ive seen the rats teeth get stuck on a plastic hide and actually leave marks. That would go threw a snake like a hot knife threw butter. It isnt that the snake cant constrict it fast enough, its that while gasping for air the Rats open and close their mouth and their teeth bite down on anything as they struggle. You also have Rats that will fight to death also.. With all of that said, nothing to be is worth a injury to your snake and Vet visit. Thats would stress me out beyond belief. These Snakes are my buddies.
I also breed my own Rats for feeders and have 4 as pets also.. Ive seen the damage they can do and its no joke. A Rat bite is 20 times worse than a Ball Python bite.
Try Fresh Kill if frozen isn't something you want to do. Frozen is nasty as hell i think, but crazy cost effective. Mine will take frozen as long as they are 100 degrees.. So its a option for most healthy snakes that have a good living environment. My2Cents


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Yeah, good points CalmPythons. F/T is much cheaper and pre-killed isn't a bad option. It can also help if you are trying to switch a snake to F/T.

Yeah, I really don't like rodents (I don't want them to suffer, but I don't like them very much) and I would take a snake bite over a rodent bite any day. I had a pet gerbil when I was little kid. What a jerk. He enjoyed drawing blood!

Ive fed both ways. Never had much of an issue with either. I feed thawed now, mainly to save money snd convenience.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Be right back , just gonna get some popcorn :)



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What kind of popcorn did you end up making?

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Originally Posted by dakski

What kind of popcorn did you end up making?

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If its some kettle corn I’d love some!


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It's about feeding what works for you and your snakes and be educated on the subject what other think or do is irrelevant, I have fed well over 25000 live preys (probably over double that even) over the past decade with no issue, I have fed several thousands of F/T prey with no issue either.

I will saying it again EDUCATION is key regardless of what you chose.

I have no ethical problems feeding live - as long as it is humane. Trying to "stun" the prey just makes it injured, scared, and in pain - not fair to the rodent or the snake that is now dealing with a prey item that is confused and defensive.

Feeding frozen in more convenient for me (I only have one snake) as he goes on hunger strikes regularly. . . this would leave me with a live rodent that I now have to care for until my snake is ready to eat. Not too big of a problem, I actually love rats as pets, but I'd either get attached or have a feeder rat that hated my guts and was a pain to deal with.

I've fed live prey to at least 80 different species of predator, from reptiles and birds to mammals - it always comes with a risk (unless the prey is something helpless). But even feeding live crickets to a small lizard can end with a lizard with a chewed up tail. The risk is always there and as long as you are capable and willing to deal with accidents then feeding live is fine. Snakes get bit in the wild, some heal some get infections - its' part of being a predator. But since in captivity I can offer safer (if less natural) options then I will.

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Originally Posted by zina10

admit it, you're really off to get the blow drier !!! :P

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LMAO!!! :rofl:

I'm done playing games with Ball Pythons trying to keep them eating frozen/thawed on any sort of consistent basis!

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Originally Posted by zina10

admit it, you're really off to get the blow drier !!! :P

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Hahahaha, well played, Zina!!

Sorry, Zinc, but one point Zina on this one, hahahahaha.

Man I love this community. So many good people and many have become friends from all over the world. Good stuff!

OP, I think what Deborah said is very important. Either can work, it's a matter of what works for you and the snake and being PROPERLY EDUCATED.

I personally feed F/T to all my snakes, but have fed live in the past.

For me, if the snakes eat the F/T prey it makes the most sense for the following reasons:
- Frozen prey can't fight back = safe for the snake
- I can buy bulk and store months worth of prey in my freezer = cheap and easy
- If prey isn't eaten and there isn't another snake to feed it to you're not stuck housing a live mouse/rat.

Bottom line: do what's best for you and your animal. Just take the time and care to do it right.

-

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Originally Posted by dakski

Yes, controversial subject for sure.

I will give my opinion and state some facts. Keep in mind, I am not telling you what to do or what you should do, just what I do and why.

I only feed F/T. I believe most snakes, especially young snakes, and even picky BP's can be switched to F/T. There are rare occasions where it won't happen, but I think many cases where it doesn't happen it has more to do with lack of patience and persistence, lack of desire, or it's a young snake and the owner/breeder just wants to make sure it eats.

Okay a fact: A live rat can injure, possibly badly, a BP, even if you are watching it happen. I think it's much easier to intervene when the snake is not interested in feeding and you just have to remove the rat. Not so easy when a snake gets a bad strike and/or the rat fights back, hurting the snake. What could you do while that is happening?

My opinion: Live feeding is more natural, but nature isn't always safe, convenient, or humane.

I think it's cruel to the prey item, I think it's dangerous to the snake, and it's downright inconvenient, especially if you have multiple snakes. Who wants to get a bunch of live rats, bring them home, etc. I just take food out of the freezer, defrost, and done. Plus, if my BP, for instance, who fasts in the winter, doesn't want to eat, what do I do with a live rat? I don't like babysitting rats, thank you.

Many people think snakes enjoy hunting and killing. They do it to eat, period. I do not believe they have the capacity to enjoy the kill. They are just hungry and doing what is necessary. We anthropomorphize animal behaviors often. We are very different than snakes, in many ways. Humans can enjoy killing something, even take pride in it, but snakes cannot.

All my snakes, a BP, a corn, and BCI, are healthy weights, eat F/T happily, and have their entire lives, or the majority. There are no ill effects to the snake feeding F/T and risks to feeding live.

I know some people are convinced that it's difficult to switch a snake over, and it can be. However, I have had experience switching an adopted adult BP (I believe wild caught as well), who only ate live, to switch to F/T. I know, that's one example, and it took a lot of persistence and time. However, it worked. Again, may not work in all cases, but I was determined. This was also many moons ago, so please don't test me on time it took, etc.

In my experience, most snakes switch no problem, provided the prey is appropriate size, frozen and then defrosted properly, and offered in a way the snake likes, which often means simulating that is alive.

Bottom line/Conclusion: I do not think there are many, if any, advantages to the snake by feeding live.

Again, my opinion, and I do not judge other people who hunt, fish, feed live prey to their snakes, etc. These are just things I don't do because I have trouble seeing any animal be hurt or killed.

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^ THIS ^

and ...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ef43da615.jpeg


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

^ THIS ^

and ...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ef43da615.jpeg


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You should of seen my Daughters face when she came into her room and i had a pile of rats on the floor heating them up with her blow drier last night hahahahahaha. God I cant wait until I get rid of all these Frozen. PITB.


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

^ THIS ^

and ...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ef43da615.jpeg


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See, I knew it ! :P

Zinc, its time for a upgrade, though.

Check this out, and its a Dyson !!!


http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...on_dryer.0.jpg


The Dyson Supersonic, which will retail for $399, has been four years, $71 million, and 600 prototypes in the making. It features four heat settings, a cool shot, and three airflow settings. It claims to be able to stabilize the dryer temperature so it doesn't get too hot, which can cause hair RODENT damage, and to control airflow to ensure a fast, controlled drying and styling session.

This is like no hair dryer you've ever seen. While most hair dryers are top heavy and have a barrel that's longer than the handle to accommodate a motor at the back, this one has an itty-bitty but very powerful motor in the handle instead. The stubby dryer with the hollow barrel looks odd, but it's actually much easier to hold and makes it feel lighter in the hand and less awkward. Your rodents will look deliciously fluffy and stylish, and be at the precise temperature needed. No arm fatigue after re-blowdrying for the 13th time, either. Your snakes will be impressed and most likely you have to re-blowdry on average 6 times less often then usual.

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Originally Posted by zina10

See, I knew it ! :P

Zinc, its time for a upgrade, though.

Check this out, and its a Dyson !!!


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...on_dryer.0.jpg


The Dyson Supersonic, which will retail for $399, has been four years, $71 million, and 600 prototypes in the making. It features four heat settings, a cool shot, and three airflow settings. It claims to be able to stabilize the dryer temperature so it doesn't get too hot, which can cause hair RODENT damage, and to control airflow to ensure a fast, controlled drying and styling session.

This is like no hair dryer you've ever seen. While most hair dryers are top heavy and have a barrel that's longer than the handle to accommodate a motor at the back, this one has an itty-bitty but very powerful motor in the handle instead. The stubby dryer with the hollow barrel looks odd, but it's actually much easier to hold and makes it feel lighter in the hand and less awkward. Your rodents will look deliciously fluffy and stylish, and be at the precise temperature needed. No arm fatigue after re-blowdrying for the 13th time, either. Your snakes will be impressed and most likely you have to re-blowdry on average 6 times less often then usual.

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LOL :)!

I got Katie that dyson hair dryer for her birthday! It's awesome. Hmmmmm, do you think she would let me use it to heat up rats?

I dont' know. In the meantime, the hot water trick works great and my guys pound their F/T.

If you have to ask if it is safe to feed live rodents than the answer is no. Can experienced reptile keepers feed live rodents while limiting the potential for harm to their collection? Of course. should you feed live rodents if your reptile feeds off frozen thawed? No. If your reptile refuses frozen thawed are you a horrible person for feeding live? Absolutely not.

However and this is advice from experience talking...

If you do not know what you are doing with a fully grown live rodent in a confined space with your precious pet then don't do it. You can find enough horror stories of someone leaving a live rodent in their snake cage, walking away only to come back to a chewed up snake and a very expensive vet bill. If your snake will eat frozen thawed rodents, do that. If not and you must feed live, the best option is to pre kill it yourself before offering. If you can't do that then NEVER leave a live rodent, once it is grown and has the teeth to do damage, unattended in your snake's cage and never just drop a live rodent into a cage without the snake being prepared to strike.

Because you can do something does not mean you should. Why would you take the chance of wasting hundreds of dollars and immense stress over harm to your snake simply because you are either ignorant about what a rodent can do or arrogant about your snake being some killing machine?

Want to see what an adult rodent can do to a snake? This is graphic but it drives the point home

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEzL0nyj8Ac

Wait ... I need more popcorn ..
:)


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Originally Posted by zina10

See, I knew it ! :P

Zinc, its time for a upgrade, though.

Check this out, and its a Dyson !!!


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...on_dryer.0.jpg


The Dyson Supersonic, which will retail for $399, has been four years, $71 million, and 600 prototypes in the making. It features four heat settings, a cool shot, and three airflow settings. It claims to be able to stabilize the dryer temperature so it doesn't get too hot, which can cause hair RODENT damage, and to control airflow to ensure a fast, controlled drying and styling session.

This is like no hair dryer you've ever seen. While most hair dryers are top heavy and have a barrel that's longer than the handle to accommodate a motor at the back, this one has an itty-bitty but very powerful motor in the handle instead. The stubby dryer with the hollow barrel looks odd, but it's actually much easier to hold and makes it feel lighter in the hand and less awkward. Your rodents will look deliciously fluffy and stylish, and be at the precise temperature needed. No arm fatigue after re-blowdrying for the 13th time, either. Your snakes will be impressed and most likely you have to re-blowdry on average 6 times less often then usual.

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A $400.00 hair dryer??? NOPE!!! I wouldn't even pay $40.00 for one... lol

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

A $400.00 hair dryer??? NOPE!!! I wouldn't even pay $40.00 for one... lol

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For what it’s worth, Katie loves it and thinks it’s amazing. So does her mom who used to be a hairdresser.

I also got it on sale and with coupons and gift cards at BestBuy.

Either way, it is absolutely crazy and expensive for a hair dryer. However, I do like to spoil Katie. She doesn’t seem to mind either. Lol.

As far getting it to heat up rats. Yeah. A little overkill.

I have magic snake oil available for only $300.00 an ounce and it will make them have perfect hair. How many ounces would you like to buy? :P

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Originally Posted by dakski

For what it’s worth, Katie loves it and thinks it’s amazing. So does her mom who used to be a hairdresser.

I also got it on sale and with coupons and gift cards at BestBuy.

Either way, it is absolutely crazy and expensive for a hair dryer. However, I do like to spoil Katie. She doesn’t seem to mind either. Lol.

As far getting it to heat up rats. Yeah. A little overkill.

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You are an awesome fiance !!!! Keep it up :)

I would totally use it for rodents too, LOL. But I don't use the blow drier method regularly.

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

I have magic snake oil available for only $300.00 an ounce and it will make them have perfect hair. How many ounces would you like to buy? :P

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Would you do $500 for 2 ounces? :sarcasm:

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Originally Posted by dakski

Would you do $500 for 2 ounces? :sarcasm:

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Really ? You can't put a price on perfect hair !!!! :colbert:

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Originally Posted by zina10

Really ? You can't put a price on perfect hair !!!! :colbert:

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You would know Zina10! :P

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Originally Posted by dakski

Would you do $500 for 2 ounces? :sarcasm:

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All day long!!! lol

Alright people it's time to get back on track here, this thread is about SNAKE FEEDING.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by Bamboozle146

I know that this has probably been covered, and that it is a controversial subject. I've been feeding my 3 month old BP live since I've had her, and she hasn't been injured because the rats are pups still. But I always watch over her when feeding anyways. Is it still dangerous to feed live if I spectate and assist if needed? I feel like live is more natural, and I prefer to. I just want to know if she's still in danger with me watching over her.

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Like its been said, live feeding carries some risk. That risk can be greatly reduced if it's done right, but not completely eliminated.

Unless you do something bad like leaving the rodent (older then a baby, with teeth and using them) unsupervised with the snake, you usually don't get fatal injuries. But bites and scratches can happen and even if you stand right there, you can't always intervene or do it quick enough.

Some snakes have lost eyes that way.

Then again, many people feed live because it's what works for them. They don't leave rodents with the snake, or they pre kill. If a small injury happens, they treat it. They have done this for a long time and quite successfully.

With live feeding you may have to do a fecal on your snake at some point, esp. if you don't have your own rodent colony.

Both ways have pro's and cons. Both ways can be done right or wrong. Ultimately it has to work for you and it is your decision.

For what it's worth, things like "it's natural" or "the snake needs to hunt and kill for mental stimulation" are not really points you have to worry about. Either method can be successful in raising healthy snakes.


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Originally Posted by zina10

Like its been said, live feeding carries some risk. That risk can be greatly reduced if it's done right, but not completely eliminated.

Unless you do something bad like leaving the rodent (older then a baby, with teeth and using them) unsupervised with the snake, you usually don't get fatal injuries. But bites and scratches can happen and even if you stand right there, you can't always intervene or do it quick enough.

Some snakes have lost eyes that way.

Then again, many people feed live because it's what works for them. They don't leave rodents with the snake, or they pre kill. If a small injury happens, they treat it. They have done this for a long time and quite successfully.

With live feeding you may have to do a fecal on your snake at some point, esp. if you don't have your own rodent colony.

Both ways have pro's and cons. Both ways can be done right or wrong. Ultimately it has to work for you and it is your decision.

For what it's worth, things like "it's natural" or "the snake needs to hunt and kill for mental stimulation" are not really points you have to worry about. Either method can be successful in raising healthy snakes.


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The argument some people make about it being natural in the wild and therefore good in captivity is completely illogical.

It's natural for wild snakes to be exposed to parasites and predators too. But it is completely illogical to do the same thing in captivity lol.

Incidentally, freezing a prey item kills any internal or external parasites in/on it which can only be beneficial.

Then you have all of the aforementioned dangers to the snake and the suffering of the prey animal etc.

I think each to their own. But I will always feed frozen thawed unless absolutely necessary simply because there's no reason not to and every reason to.

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Originally Posted by Valaryan

The argument some people make about it being natural in the wild and therefore good in captivity is completely illogical.

It's natural for wild snakes to be exposed to parasites and predators too. But it is completely illogical to do the same thing in captivity lol.

Incidentally, freezing a prey item kills any internal or external parasites in/on it which can only be beneficial.

Then you have all of the aforementioned dangers to the snake and the suffering of the prey animal etc.

I think each to their own. But I will always feed frozen thawed unless absolutely necessary simply because there's no reason not to and every reason to.

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We share the same views ..

The only thing that bothers me is that I see people saying it's natural to feed live as it's just like them being in the wild BUT in the wild the rats can scarper away to safety whereas when they're dropped into the enclosure there's nowhere to run .... presumably some will fight if they're cornered or poirly gripped ...


Anyways it's all about choice and for now it's a free world [emoji4]

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valaryan

The argument some people make about it being natural in the wild and therefore good in captivity is completely illogical.

It's natural for wild snakes to be exposed to parasites and predators too. But it is completely illogical to do the same thing in captivity lol.

Incidentally, freezing a prey item kills any internal or external parasites in/on it which can only be beneficial.

Then you have all of the aforementioned dangers to the snake and the suffering of the prey animal etc.

I think each to their own. But I will always feed frozen thawed unless absolutely necessary simply because there's no reason not to and every reason to.

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You are preaching to the choir ;)

I agree, as I have said. And I do feed f/t.

On the other hand, there are times when feeding live is necessary.

When I did rescue, I got some snakes that were in incredibly rough shape. Just getting them healthy was not easy, nor quick. Back then, many were imports. I would never, ever withhold live food from an animal out of my own principles. Those snakes needed to eat. I tried everything else first, but if live was what was needed, so be it. I didn't put all my time, energy, care (and money) into fixing them, just to let them starve. There were some that even needed gerbils to get started (imports).

I also have to say that EVERY SINGLE ONE was eventually switched to rats, and frozen/thawed rats at that. But it took time and patience and first priority was to get some weight on those snakes and get them healthy. As soon as possible I switched to pre killed as well.

Then there are hatchlings. I've had plenty of f/t food for them, and plenty of patience. Yet, there are some that just want live food to start out on. I'm not about to "wait out" a hatchling because of what I believe in. They don't have those kinds of reserves and hatchlings can be tricky. So the ones that needed live food, got live food. Again, all eventually switched to not only f/t but rats (from mice) before they were re-homed.

I also understand why breeders or people with a lot of snakes feed live. Its simply difficult to feed a large collection with frozen/thawed. So some would say, so what? Then they shouldn't have that many snakes.

I think that is wrong to say. Thanks to those (good) breeders we now have a large selection of quality CB animals, and it has cut down on the misery of imports. I do remember when most BP's that people bought were imports and how difficult it was for the beginners as well as the snakes. And how many perished during the entire process.

Most breeders have a lot of experience, they breed their own rodents and feed them well (no sick, gross ones) and they know better then to leave rodents with the snakes. They respect and love their animals as well.

Besides, if someone simply prefers to feed live, and does all they can to minimize the risk, I'd be the last person to harp on them. With all the reptiles that are being housed incorrectly, mistreated and neglected, that alone is simply not an issue at all. Whatever works for whomever, as long as they try their best to do right by the animal.

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Originally Posted by zina10

You are preaching to the choir ;)

I agree, as I have said. And I do feed f/t.

On the other hand, there are times when feeding live is necessary.

When I did rescue, I got some snakes that were in incredibly rough shape. Just getting them healthy was not easy, nor quick. Back then, many were imports. I would never, ever withhold live food from an animal out of my own principles. Those snakes needed to eat. I tried everything else first, but if live was what was needed, so be it. I didn't put all my time, energy, care (and money) into fixing them, just to let them starve. There were some that even needed gerbils to get started (imports).

I also have to say that EVERY SINGLE ONE was eventually switched to rats, and frozen/thawed rats at that. But it took time and patience and first priority was to get some weight on those snakes and get them healthy. As soon as possible I switched to pre killed as well.

Then there are hatchlings. I've had plenty of f/t food for them, and plenty of patience. Yet, there are some that just want live food to start out on. I'm not about to "wait out" a hatchling because of what I believe in. They don't have those kinds of reserves and hatchlings can be tricky. So the ones that needed live food, got live food. Again, all eventually switched to not only f/t but rats (from mice) before they were re-homed.

I also understand why breeders or people with a lot of snakes feed live. Its simply difficult to feed a large collection with frozen/thawed. So some would say, so what? Then they shouldn't have that many snakes.

I think that is wrong to say. Thanks to those (good) breeders we now have a large selection of quality CB animals, and it has cut down on the misery of imports. I do remember when most BP's that people bought were imports and how difficult it was for the beginners as well as the snakes. And how many perished during the entire process.

Most breeders have a lot of experience, they breed their own rodents and feed them well (no sick, gross ones) and they know better then to leave rodents with the snakes. They respect and love their animals as well.

Besides, if someone simply prefers to feed live, and does all they can to minimize the risk, I'd be the last person to harp on them. With all the reptiles that are being housed incorrectly, mistreated and neglected, that alone is simply not an issue at all. Whatever works for whomever, as long as they try their best to do right by the animal.

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Very true. I was agreeing with your post.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

We share the same views ..

The only thing that bothers me is that I see people saying it's natural to feed live as it's just like them being in the wild BUT in the wild the rats can scarper away to safety whereas when they're dropped into the enclosure there's nowhere to run .... presumably some will fight if they're cornered or poirly gripped ...


Anyways it's all about choice and for now it's a free world [emoji4]

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One guy once told me on YouTube that he feeds live because frozen thawed causes egg binding in females lol.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Valaryan

One guy once told me on YouTube that he feeds live because frozen thawed causes egg binding in females lol.

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That's a new one :rofl:


I've heard

-I feed live because if not the snake looses the killer instinct and will *gasp* eat without constricting (the horror)

and all kinds of other crazy stuff

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Originally Posted by zina10

That's a new one :rofl:


I've heard

-I feed live because if not the snake looses the killer instinct and will *gasp* eat without constricting (the horror)

and all kinds of other crazy stuff

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That actually touches on something I've been thinking about - drop feeding vs strike feeding.

My burm is about 3-4 feet long so strike feeding has never posed a safety concern.

But I can see drop feeding as a benefit when you're dealing with a 15 foot adult.

Do you think there is a necessary benefit to strike feeding as far as exercise goes or not?

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I personally do not.

With a species such a Ball Python at times you have to do the "drop and leave the room for the rest of the night" feeding and hope it works ;)

Then again, strike feeding with a really big or aggressive snake can be quite ...exciting? LOL

I think whatever works. I wouldn't really count striking as exercise. Nor do I worry if they eat without constricting (like some will do). I'm just happy they eat ;)

Most of mine strike and constrict, but the odd one wants the food left by the hide at times.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

I personally do not.

With a species such a Ball Python at times you have to do the "drop and leave the room for the rest of the night" feeding and hope it works ;)

Then again, strike feeding with a really big or aggressive snake can be quite ...exciting? LOL

I think whatever works. I wouldn't really count striking as exercise. Nor do I worry if they eat without constricting (like some will do). I'm just happy they eat ;)

Most of mine strike and constrict, but the odd one wants the food left by the hide at times.

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Not so much the striking. My thinking is that striking and then constricting expends a lot of energy. Particularly the constriction part compared to their mainly sedentary lifestyle.

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I suppose it does make them use their muscles.

However, some snakes are such shy eaters, they will not strike nor eat while being watched. I rather leave a dead rodent in the enclosure to walk away and have them eat without constricting, then leave a live one and walk away.

The "drop" method usually still elicits a strike and constriction. The only time I've seen them eat without constricting were the instances of very shy Ball Pythons.

My two cents regarding the snake striking or not, and I chimed in earlier on the entire subject (and Zina10's hair), is that there is no need to make a snake strike. Some snakes will inevitably do it, and others could care less, and just want food.

My corn, Figment, will happily nail a mouse, but if I am able to get it on the ground before he strikes (not always the case), he will just grab it and eat it. Shayna, my BP, is so shy, she almost never strikes, and will almost beg me to put it down so she can pull it into her house and eat quietly. I think trying to illicit a strike with her scares her more than it benefits her in any way.

Behira, my juvenile BCI (715G and about 3 1/2 feet+), will happily nail the tank doors waiting for a rat. Needless to say, she cannot contain her excitement and striking is often in the cards. If I can get the rat down before she strikes (again, not often), she will happily half/strike and or just eat it.

I am not looking forward to feeding her when she is 7-8FT and 12-20 pounds. I will happily throw the rat in and let her deal with it, unless she just wants to strike the front of the tank when she smells it. Then having her strike at the prey is the lesser of the evils, even if it scares the crap out of me :).

Good thing she (Behira) is such a sweetheart when she isn't thinking of, expecting, or attacking a F/T rat.

Again, if a snake will happily eat without striking, go for it! No need to have them expend the energy or risk a missed strike and having them hit their head/mouth on something else.

I always feed my snakes frozen thawed, I have no issue with feeding live but find frozen to be far more convenient and less risky for the snake. The way I see it is that 99.9% of the time, the snake will take down it's prey without so much as a scratch, it's what they were born to do. But then there is that .1% of the time where the snake gets a poor hold and the prey has a chance to fight back. I've seen wild milk snakes with horrific scars and can easily imaging that sometimes, just sometimes, the rat wins.

As far as strike feeding goes, most of my snakes will bite and wrap if the prey is presented on tongs, and I encourage them to do so as I feel it helps build better muscle tone and strength. If they are shy and won't take it I simply leave it in so they can eat it later.