What is the best intermediate snake species?

I have 3 ball pythons 1 western hognose snake what would be a good next level snake?
Thanks.

Boa constrictor or red tail
Dumeril's boa
Carpet python
Brazilian rainbow boa

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Originally Posted by SDA

Boa constrictor or red tail
Dumeril's boa
Carpet python
Brazilian rainbow boa

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Of those I would go with a Dum or boa imperator next. Husbandry is pretty easy, especially if you've managed to set up your ball pythons correctly, and neither species grows quickly so you'll have plenty of time before they'll need to be upgraded from a tub to a PVC enclosure.

Of the two it depends on whether you want an active snake (boa imperator) or one that is happy to just hang on you and chill (Dum).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SDA

Boa constrictor or red tail
Dumeril's boa
Carpet python
Brazilian rainbow boa

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In addition, perhaps a rosey boa.

If you want to move toward the Colubrid side, consider any of the North American rat snakes (genus Pantherophis), like the black rat snake, yellow rat snake, etc. Or any of the genus Pituophis, like the black pine snake, bullsnake, Sonora gopher snake, etc. Or one of the garter snakes if you like a smaller species.

Good luck.

Are red tailed boas big enough to where you need 2 people around?
Also would a male green anaconda be too much for an intermediate snake?
Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Tyler Lawrence

Are red tailed boas big enough to where you need 2 people around?
Also would a male green anaconda be too much for an intermediate snake?
Thanks.

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No, but borderline. Males are the smaller. Whatever sex, never, never, never let an RTB get wrapped around your neck.

Yes (IMO). Possibly a male yellow anaconda would be acceptable, but the YA I had was not a friendly snake. I eventually swapped it for a corn snake and was much happier.

Asian rat snakes are gorgeous creatures. I especially love the beauty snakes, and have the Vietnamese Blue Beauty on my future snake list.

A green anaconda is going to be a two person snake as an adult. A yellow male will be smaller but is still not a small snake.

You can find dwarf locality boa constrictors that stay small and can be housed in the same rack as your ball pythons if you want, though if you give them more space they will use all of it.

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Originally Posted by Tyler Lawrence

I have 3 ball pythons 1 western hognose snake what would be a good next level snake?
Thanks.

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That really depends on what you're looking for in a snake.

Are you looking for something that typically handles well and you'll handle often? Or Are you looking for more of a display snake?

How about size of snake? I see you mentioned a green anaconda, so I'm guessing you want to go bigger...
To answer that...I would definitely not jump straight from a BP to a conda, especially a green. That's way too much snake for one person. Another thing to consider is they require very large enclosures with a huge water pool because they spend a lot of time in the water. Feeding them isn't cheap either.

I say look into different boas (red tails, BCIs and rainbows), blood and short-tail pythons, carpet pythons, dwarf retics, if you want something with more size that handles well.

If you're into the more slender snakes and want to stay under 5 feet I always say go for a King.

If you're thinking more of a display snake look into GTPs or ETBs.

It's really going to come down to what YOU want. Do some research, narrow it down, ask follow up questions and you'll find the right snake for you

I would avoid most arboreal snakes like ETB and GTP due to their advanced cost and dedication needed to house them properly. They are intermediate but I would not recommend someone dive into them until a bit more experienced with temperamental snakes and unique problems.

Green anacondas are advanced and extreme snakes. If you cannot or will not commit to the life of such a giant bodied snake please avoid such a snake (that goes for retic and burmese). Anaconda can easily top well over 200+ pounds, 15+ feet and live up to 30 years. You should never handle it alone due to it's insane girth.

I would highly recommend for enjoyment and unique aspects some of the more exotic colubrids. There are rat and bull snakes that have more intermediate requirements but are still not as time consuming and cost prohibitive. For example indigo snakes, false water cobras (mild venom but no worse than hognose), and cribos are some ideas that are amazing intermediate snakes.

What snake species would you think I should have experience with before getting an arboreal snake?

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

That really depends on what you're looking for in a snake.

Are you looking for something that typically handles well and you'll handle often? Or Are you looking for more of a display snake?

How about size of snake? I see you mentioned a green anaconda, so I'm guessing you want to go bigger...
To answer that...I would definitely not jump straight from a BP to a conda, especially a green. That's way too much snake for one person. Another thing to consider is they require very large enclosures with a huge water pool because they spend a lot of time in the water. Feeding them isn't cheap either.

I say look into different boas (red tails, BCIs and rainbows), blood and short-tail pythons, carpet pythons, dwarf retics, if you want something with more size that handles well.

If you're into the more slender snakes and want to stay under 5 feet I always say go for a King.

If you're thinking more of a display snake look into GTPs or ETBs.

It's really going to come down to what YOU want. Do some research, narrow it down, ask follow up questions and you'll find the right snake for you

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For the most part, you read my mind, craigafrechette.

I recently wanted more of a challenge, not something crazy, and had room for a big tank(s).

I had an adult Blue Tongue Skink, 3 leopard Geckos, an adult corn snake, and an adult BP. After some consideration, and a similar thought process to you OP, I ended up with a female BCI.

I was due to upgrade all my tanks and ended up with a 5 tank stack/apartment of 6X2' Boaphile tanks. That will be the perfect size for my female BCI when she is an adult (she's a 2016 baby), and is more than enough room for everyone else (I have one 6X2' split in to two 3X2's for the geckos - two get along and one does not play well with others).

BCI's are beautiful (and come in many morphs) and get big, but not crazy big (again I wouldn't put an adult around your neck, but one person can handle an adult female BCI). The care for BCI's, aside from needing more room (especially for females), is very similar to BP's. In fact, I run both my BP tank and BCI tank off the same thermostats. They are also, in general and snake specific of course, puppy dogs. Behira (my BCI) is incredibly tame and handleable. More active when being handled than a BP, but not crazy or anything. I will say that BCI's have an incredible feeding response (common and Behira for sure), so probably a good idea to get some big tongs and hook train from the get go. I made the mistake of not and got a feeding response bite early on. Now I hook train and Behira is a total sweetheart (once she knows food is not involved).

BCC's and to an even greater extent, BRB's, need more humidity than BCI's and are a little less forgiving in that department, from what I have heard. Also, BCI's and BCC's in particular, need to be slow grown for health and long life. Much easier to overfeed than underfeed. Because of this, it can take 4-6 years, or more, for one to reach adult size.

BCC's also tend to get bigger than BCI's (males 5-7FT+ and females 7-9FT+), where as BCI's are closer to (4-6FT+ for males and (6-8FT +) for females.

From what I have heard, Retics, even dwarf retics, can be a handful. Supposed to have great personality and can be very docile and rewarding. However, you need an even bigger tank than a BCI, and care is different as well. They push, dig, rearrange, etc. and want to go where they want to go when being handled, etc. I think, because of size and personality/attitude, Retics are more advanced than intermediate, but please correct me (anyone) if I am wrong.

Again in my mind, going from BP to BCI means a bigger, more active snake, but husbandry (aside from tank size) is very similar. So the only real issue there is size.

There are also dwarf/locality specific species of Boa's that stay smaller than BCI's and could live in a similar setup to a BP. However, I am not as familiar with them, and from limited experience with babies, they seemed less chill than the BCI's I looked at. Also, aside from getting a different species, not sure where the challenge/intermediate level step up is.

Again, I agree - Display Snake - GTP or ETB are both beautiful options. I have heard better things temperament wise for GTP's and they don't have teeth that resemble fangs quite as bad as ETB's, but that's up to you. Both are beautiful snakes and make great display animals.

If looking for something different, in colubrids, I personally love corn snakes and you can get some crazy morphs. Care is easy and forgiving and they aren't too much of a challenge though.

There are other colubrids, like Russian Rat snakes, that can be really cool pets too. Texas rats are bigger colubrids that also come in morphs, but I have heard they can be testy and unpredictable. No thanks.

Milksnakes and king snakes come in a vast variety of morphs as well and can be great pets.

I would stay away from anything that might need two people as an adult.

I would say no to Anacondas, burmese, and anything other than a dwarf retic (although I still think they are more advanced snakes). They have dwarf burmese, but I have heard mixed things on availability and temperament. I think they are still working out the kinks there.

Finally, Blood Pythons can be pretty cool, but also very heavy bodied snakes, and temperament can vary. In general though, I have heard/read more positive things about them recently and as they have become more popular and bred more.

In conclusion:

My recommendation for a next level snake going from BP and hognose is a BCI.

In consideration: Corn, Milk, King, russian rat, dwarf locale boa's etc.

I would also consider: Blood Python and maybe, maybe, a SD retic.

I would avoid: Anacondas, Burmese Pythons, and texas rat snakes and other larger colubrid snakes.

Good luck, please let us know your thoughts, and also keep us in the loop with whatever you decide/get.

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Originally Posted by Tyler Lawrence

What snake species would you think I should have experience with before getting an arboreal snake?

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If looking to go arboreal, a carpet python could be a good next step (they are semi-arboreal I believe). I have no experience and have read little about them though, so others should chime in.

For arboreal you can try amazon tree boas but they take time to acclimate as they can be defensive.

Carpet pythons are slightly less arboreal as they in the wild, tend to be both arboreal and terrestrial. They too can be defensive when young but can get pretty tame.

Carpet pythons are a blast to keep. They're great display snakes that handle well, there are some amazing morphs and natural types, the husbandry is a breeze and they're usually great feeders. I think they're the perfect mid sized snake. Like others have also said bulls and other pits are awesome colubrids. If you're open to a larger snake that's not as commonly kept take a look at Olive pythons. I have a yearling that I love to pieces. He's quickly becoming one of my favorites.

I love all snakes, but python regius are the royalty! Literally! Until I have a room full of royal pythons, keeping any other species is blasphemous to me! Lol

I have thought about a large BCI one day maybe, or a nice GTP on display.
I also find king snakes quite mesmerizing, or similar sized rat snakes.

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Originally Posted by Tyler Lawrence

I have 3 ball pythons 1 western hognose snake what would be a good next level snake?
Thanks.

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That question is very subjective. It would depend on if you are looking for a larger constrictor or perhaps another colubrid.

If you are looking for a large constrictor, my vote goes to a boa or even SD retic.

If you are looking for a colubrid, cant help you there.

The key is you need to do the research beforehand. Know what you are getting into and the costs of said animal and evaluate whether you have the funds and time for them. Really only you can answer that question.

As for snakes that a single person can handle, there are boas, SD retics, carpets. Caesar who is my SD retic is 7-8 feet and i can handle him solo no problem. He is a handful as he is always on the go like most retics but nothing i cant handle. Boas are much more laid back, kind of like a huge BP that isnt scared or hides.

But again, cant stress it enough, do the research for the snake you are interested in and then ask questions about that snake. Your question is too broad and generalized so you are going to get all kinds of different answers.

And dont be deterred by any snake. Some take more specific set ups but imo, none so far have seemed really hard for me. I was worried about GTPs for years which put me off from buying one even though i always wanted one. Well the stars lined up and i say screw it and bit the bullet. Turned out Pat is very easy to care for once i got the set up right. You just need to research and nothing is really hard. People also say Surinames are hard to care for. I dont find that true either. Gina is just as easy as my BCIs to care for as long as you research and know what to do. That is the key. Maybe i got lucky or maybe all my research beforehand paid off :)

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

That question is very subjective. It would depend on if you are looking for a larger constrictor or perhaps another colubrid.

If you are looking for a large constrictor, my vote goes to a boa or even SD retic.

If you are looking for a colubrid, cant help you there.

The key is you need to do the research beforehand. Know what you are getting into and the costs of said animal and evaluate whether you have the funds and time for them. Really only you can answer that question.

As for snakes that a single person can handle, there are boas, SD retics, carpets. Caesar who is my SD retic is 7-8 feet and i can handle him solo no problem. He is a handful as he is always on the go like most retics but nothing i cant handle. Boas are much more laid back, kind of like a huge BP that isnt scared or hides.

But again, cant stress it enough, do the research for the snake you are interested in and then ask questions about that snake. Your question is too broad and generalized so you are going to get all kinds of different answers.

And dont be deterred by any snake. Some take more specific set ups but imo, none so far have seemed really hard for me. I was worried about GTPs for years which put me off from buying one even though i always wanted one. Well the stars lined up and i say screw it and bit the bullet. Turned out Pat is very easy to care for once i got the set up right. You just need to research and nothing is really hard. People also say Surinames are hard to care for. I dont find that true either. Gina is just as easy as my BCIs to care for as long as you research and know what to do. That is the key. Maybe i got lucky or maybe all my research beforehand paid off :)

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Yes, yes, and yes! Good points. Although, I think colubrids are cool, though not exactly your cup of tea, Sauzo?

I agree it's very important to research. You are going to have a colubrid for 10-20 years and a boid for even longer. Make sure you are comfortable with your decision and can properly care for the snake. You are asking the question, so I imagine you will do that, but it's a good point.

"Boas are much more laid back, kind of like a huge BP that isnt scared or hides."

I am nominating this for best description of a Boa on BP.net.

I can attest, from limited experience, Boa's are not shy and do not scare easy! Shayna, my BP is a total sweetheart, but scares herself bumping into stationary objects, and is rarely found outside a hide.

Behira uses hides, but usually only part way. She likes getting her body snug in there, but her head is almost always way out of the hide and checking things out.

She is very observant and likes to see what's going on around her, in tank, or out and about being handled. I like the bravery and personality, but do not love Shayna any less.

For what's worth, Figment, my corn (and I have had several throughout my life), is similar to Boa's in terms of not scaring easy and often checking things out. He likes to hide more than Behira, but also will come right out to see me half the time I open the tank. When being handled, he is more interested in moving around though. He's an adult and about 650G and 5FT, so very manageable, to say the least, but he moves a lot. He does not scare or mind being redirected though. If he bumps into something, it's, "NEXT!" Bump, next, bump, next, bump, next. He almost likes bumping things with his head to investigate.

I have done some research and found an amazing snake species the Asian vine snake,
though I think since I have not had an arboreal or defensive snake yet it might be a little much,
I think I should get a little experience with a nippy/fast arboreal snake that's not rear fanged venomous,
So do you think I should have experience with another species first? If so what?
Thanks.

If you want a snake that's arboreal and slightly nippy, I'm going to again nominate beauty snakes. Depending on the species they can be a bit large (VBB get around 9' but can get closer to 12', and Taiwans usually get around 7'. Chinese usually get 5' I think) but they're also very slender in comparison to their length.

From what I've read if they're not handled regularly they will be more defensive and possibly bity. They're highly aboreal as well. And also beautiful, but I might just be biased lol.

(as a random wild suggestion check out baron's racers, they look so interesting!)

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Originally Posted by SDA

Boa constrictor or red tail
Dumeril's boa
Carpet python
Brazilian rainbow boa

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Don't forget the dwarf Boa's as well, like Hogg Island Boa, Sonorans, Crawl Cay's, Caulkers Cay's and Pearl Island and Nicaraguan to name a few.... These only top out at 4-5ft at the most (depending on sex) but still have the wonderful character of larger Boa's.

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Originally Posted by Jus1More

Don't forget the dwarf Boa's as well, like Hogg Island Boa, Sonorans, Crawl Cay's, Caulkers Cay's and Pearl Island and Nicaraguan to name a few.... These only top out at 4-5ft at the most (depending on sex) but still have the wonderful character of larger Boa's.

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Excellent suggestion. .. here's my Dwarf SunGlow Boa ..he's over two years old and I don't think he's reached 30" yet !

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9ee315970c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...e55ddb5299.jpg


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Originally Posted by dakski

Yes, yes, and yes! Good points. Although, I think colubrids are cool, though not exactly your cup of tea, Sauzo?

I agree it's very important to research. You are going to have a colubrid for 10-20 years and a boid for even longer. Make sure you are comfortable with your decision and can properly care for the snake. You are asking the question, so I imagine you will do that, but it's a good point.

"Boas are much more laid back, kind of like a huge BP that isnt scared or hides."

I am nominating this for best description of a Boa on BP.net.

I can attest, from limited experience, Boa's are not shy and do not scare easy! Shayna, my BP is a total sweetheart, but scares herself bumping into stationary objects, and is rarely found outside a hide.

Behira uses hides, but usually only part way. She likes getting her body snug in there, but her head is almost always way out of the hide and checking things out.

She is very observant and likes to see what's going on around her, in tank, or out and about being handled. I like the bravery and personality, but do not love Shayna any less.

For what's worth, Figment, my corn (and I have had several throughout my life), is similar to Boa's in terms of not scaring easy and often checking things out. He likes to hide more than Behira, but also will come right out to see me half the time I open the tank. When being handled, he is more interested in moving around though. He's an adult and about 650G and 5FT, so very manageable, to say the least, but he moves a lot. He does not scare or mind being redirected though. If he bumps into something, it's, "NEXT!" Bump, next, bump, next, bump, next. He almost likes bumping things with his head to investigate.

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Nah, I'm more of a large constrictor person. I like hognoses and maybe one day I'll get one but for me, i prefer the snakes i can throw over my shoulder and go outside in backyard with.

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Originally Posted by Tyler Lawrence

I have done some research and found an amazing snake species the Asian vine snake,
though I think since I have not had an arboreal or defensive snake yet it might be a little much,
I think I should get a little experience with a nippy/fast arboreal snake that's not rear fanged venomous,
So do you think I should have experience with another species first? If so what?
Thanks.

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If you like a vine snake, go for it. The reptile shop i go to a lot had a little one which was pretty cool looking. I really wouldnt worry about the rear fang venom. Hognose are rear fanged venom too. The venom is more for subduing prey than trying to use on a predator.

I was scared of getting a GTP for over 20 years and wish i would have just done it. Being arboreal really isnt that much of a different set up. I mean it is different but not like day or night. Most arboreals will use horizontal space more too. Just like GTPs are arboreal but they dont climb up and down tree trunks all night long. They spend a lot of time on the floor as well as going horizontal through branches. Just do research on caging size they need and their size as well as other husbandry and if you can meet it, go for it.

As for nippy, a lot of babies are nippy and snakes in general arent a dog or cat. They arent something you 'play' with daily and throw a stick and it fetches it. Just get a snake hook and after the snake settles in, work with it. Who knows, maybe you will get a weirdo one that likes interaction. Retics always had a bad rap and Caesar is like a giant kid. He literally wants attention and will pace the front until you open a door and pet him and socialize with him. Then when he gets his fill, he will lay down and get quiet or go half in a hide.

Bottom line is if you like a snake, do the research and if you can afford it and care for it, go for it. Now something like full on venomous reptiles, i would hold off on them until you have experience and make sure you or your local hospital has antivenom lol. I've been so close to pulling the trigger on a gila or beaded lizard as i've wanted one as long as i've wanted a GTP.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Excellent suggestion. .. here's my Dwarf SunGlow Boa ..he's over two years old and I don't think he's reached 30" yet !

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...9ee315970c.jpghttps://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...e55ddb5299.jpg


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T+ Nic sunglow?

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Originally Posted by Tyler Lawrence

I have done some research and found an amazing snake species the Asian vine snake,
though I think since I have not had an arboreal or defensive snake yet it might be a little much,
I think I should get a little experience with a nippy/fast arboreal snake that's not rear fanged venomous,
So do you think I should have experience with another species first? If so what?
Thanks.

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I don't know much about Asian Vine Snakes, except what I have read, and seen on youtube, etc.

Personally, not a big fan of any type of venomous snake, even rear fanged, and I do not know their temperament in general. I would likely be willing to get a hognose though, because they are not known to be nippy and are incredibly cute!

Aside from that, I have read that Asian Vine Snakes eat mostly lizards and occasionally, small rodents (very small). I have also read that they hunt by movement and will not eat a dead lizard. So you will be feeding live anoles and geckos. I couldn't do that. I don't even feed live rodents to my snakes, but I keep a Blue Tongue Skink and Leopard Geckos. I couldn't imagine feeding off any type of gecko to a snake. That's me. However, you also have to make sure you access to live lizards as prey. Asian Vine Snakes eat more frequently than many other snakes as well. So 2+ lizards a week can be costly.

There also isn't too much out there on them. I would be wary of that as well. Could you get CB one, or you have to get an import?

If that's the direction you want to go, that's great. Just make sure you know what you are getting into. Definitely not for me though!

I always thought Vine snakes were small at about 15" , very skinny and extremely fast moving. I had no idea they were rear fanged !


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I always thought Vine snakes were small at about 15" , very skinny and extremely fast moving. I had no idea they were rear fanged !


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Extremely fast moving and rear fanged. Why do I wish that was mutually exclusive instead of synonymous here?

Well, I am not changing my mind about not getting one, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

T+ Nic sunglow?

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I really don't know tbh


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I really don't know tbh


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Ah figured it was since you said dwarf. The only true dwarf sunglows are T+ as T- is Kahl and Sharp which are 'full size' boas. Just like Sunset boas are a mix of Hogg and 'full size' BCI.

The only thing that threw me was its background color seems pretty white for a T+ as they are more orange in color.

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Originally Posted by dakski

Extremely fast moving and rear fanged. Why do I wish that was mutually exclusive instead of synonymous here?

Well, I am not changing my mind about not getting one, that's for sure.

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Go for it. The little one i saw that the gal had at the reptile shop was neat looking. But like i said, I'm more a big constrictor guy. She knows that too but had to show me the vine snake anyways haha. I was like 'Neat Kayla, get any new large constrictors?" lol.

And really to get any kind of venom injected into you, that snake would have to somehow get a chunk of you all the way to the back of it's mouth and considering they dont have a head like a 6+ foot boa, seems only a finger might work.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Ah figured it was since you said dwarf. The only true dwarf sunglows are T+ as T- is Kahl and Sharp which are 'full size' boas. Just like Sunset boas are a mix of Hogg and 'full size' BCI.

The only thing that threw me was its background color seems pretty white for a T+ as they are more orange in color.

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Well it IS more orangey now , the paler shot was about two years ago , the other one was last year ...


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