Difference between a Ringer and Paradox

So, I have a pastel het pied ball python that I was told was a paradox. He's a pretty respectable breeder/seller so I completely believed him. However, since then I discovered that instead of being a paradox, she more likely just has a ringer. I must admit I was somewhat disappointed in this. Anyways, it's made me curious about what the difference between paradox and ringers. Are ringers just lower form of paradox, or are they completely separate? What is the rarity of paradox vs ringers?

Additionally, I'd like some more opinion on whether it is possible that my girl could in fact be a paradox, or if her marking is for sure just a ringer. Here's a picture of her.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ca-dbud49d.jpg

Can you share a belly shot. If thats supposed to just be a pastel het pied Im honestly wondering if its a super low white pied with that pattern distortion.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Honestly, I like ringers better than paradox. The only time I like paradox a lot is small patches of dark pattern on a white or light color low pattern snake. Looks like a ringer to me but you could have hit the jackpot and it turns out to be a low white pied. Looks doubtful to me though. I like her either way :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hannahshissyfix

Can you share a belly shot. If thats supposed to just be a pastel het pied Im honestly wondering if its a super low white pied with that pattern distortion.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

---

Yes, here are some pics.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ca-dc52cl3.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ca-dc52cme.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ca-dc52co3.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...ca-dc52cu6.jpg

Hopefully these work for you. My camera does not seem to like focusing on Pancake's pattern. X.X

I vote pied

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Beautiful. I think its a het piebald with an unusually strong piebald visual coming through.
A rare and very valuable snake. I would such a specimen in my own collection. I have a pastel het pied on hold, but not nearly as bold as yours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks like a ringer to me, similar ringer as my black pewter (who is not het pied as far as the breeder knows). Ringers show up sometimes, most often in a het pied animal.
this is an old pic of mine:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...Oty1yk2I0J.jpg

edit to add - paradox seems to be more rare and usually is not an inheritable trait (for various species not just BP)

Don't pastels usually have some of the black speckles carried all of the way down to the white belly stripe? I havent had a regular pastel in a while to check bellies.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hannahshissyfix

Don't pastels usually have some of the black speckles carried all of the way down to the white belly stripe? I havent had a regular pastel in a while to check bellies.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

---

no, pastels have clear bellies
(This one is also het pied so also has some white flame/ringer type action:)
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/wsOvfqH.png

Oh what a beautiful pastel noodle! And thank you for your opinion. ^^

Bumping thread.

To me a Ringer is a when there is a small patch of the the normal pattern washed out with usually a white patch, but I had a yellow belly BP that had a yellow patch. A paradox is more of the appearance of another gene "leaking" through in patches in various degrees on parts of the body. Here are a couple extreme examples below of what comes to mind when I hear the names(none of the pictures below belong to me, they are a result of a quick Google search)




Paradox
https://imgur.com/gallery/Q5IVX



Ringer
https://ballpython.ca/portfolio-posts/ringer/

Pancake,

Your animal is a ringer.


As far as the difference between the two... Aztec's explanation is pretty close on.

A "ringer" happens when there is a total disruption to pigment deposition on the animal. This occurs in a ventral-to-dorsal manner and is most frequently (but not always) found on the distal half of the animal. Het Pied, especially when in synergy with certain other mutations (e.g., Champ, SuperBlk complex, etc.) does seem to have some correlation in the production of ringers however the presence of a ringer does not necessarily indicate an animal is guaranteed to be het Pied.

"Paradox" is an illegitimate term colloquially used in the hobby to describe any colour/pattern aberration that is outside the expected on a given animal. Examples of this would be an Albino with a patch of WT colouring on it or a Spider with a patch of WT pattern. It is usually the result of localized monoallelic mosaicism or chimerism but can also be the result of a handful of other strange genetic occurrences.

Ringer is a coloration change usually near the tail that most believe indicates the animal is het for a recessive.

Paradox = Birthmark, that's it.

Thank you @aztec4mia and @Asplundii for your answers! They are very helpful. ^^

i thought this was already settled here: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...aradox-or-Pied

i own ringers, paradoxes and pieds. your BP is a Pastel het Pied w/ a ringer. u have a lil bit of white and melted pattern there. u have a great looking animal w/ very strong het Pied influences. :gj:

Yeah, I was mainly wanting to know the difference between a ringer and paradox with this thread, though I realize I didn't make that entirely clear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pancake's Momma

Yeah, I was mainly wanting to know the difference between a ringer and paradox with this thread, though I realize I didn't make that entirely clear.

---

it's just confusing/redundant b/c u are still using your BP for confirmation/affirmation. i'm sorry the breeder misled u but glad the larger community has been able to help u figure out what she is. she is really pretty tho. i like her ringer and reduced pattern.