Another "my bp is not eating" thread

Hi, since beginning October I have a very sweet male bp, who is thought to be about 8-10 months old and weighs 260 gram. Up until January he ate very well and if he d8d refuse his food he always did so with a good reason (shed, temperature not right, etc.)

But since January 9 he hasn't eaten anymore, he simply refuses to. I will thaw the mouse and he already starts getting excited - comes partly out of his hide and goes into his "hunting stance" as I call it. Then I'll give him the mouse and move it slightly in front of him, and he'll usually stare at it for about ten minutes, he will touch it with his little head, lick it, but he won't strike. So then I place the mouse in front of his hide and go to sleep, leaving it there overnight.

And I swear, the little :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: will play with it ALL NIGHT, he will poke it, rest his head on top of it, stare at it for HOURS, but he refuses to eat it.

He hasn't lost weight yet, but I personally think he is a little on the skinny side, so if he does start to lose weight it won't be good!

Now some information about the terrarium he's in:

He's in a 50 gallon terrarium,
The sides and the back are completely covered,
It's filled with stuff so he can cross from the warm to the cold side without being seen,
He has a 100 watt che + a heat mat on his warm side
I have two DIGITAL thermometers
I have a thermostat
I also have a tempgun,
He can't reach the heat mat, it's underneath the terrarium, and in the terrarium I have newspaper covered with 2 cm of bedding.
The humidity is usually around 50%
Last time he shed was 1.5 month ago,
He spends 95% of the time inside his hides, only at night he'll move his head out, his neck in S shape and stare in front of him (he used to do this too when he did eat, and would do it usually the day before feeding day, because he was hungry).
His two hides are identical and not too small, nor too big
I check the temperature with my tempgun regularly, because imo it's more accurate than my thermometers
Cold side during the day= 80
Cold side during the night (it's winter and my room temperature drops very quickly as it's been freezing the past 3 weeks)= 75/78
Hot side: 89
Hot side in his hide: 90
Hot side a little under his substrate: 92

He's in my room so the only person that can "bother" him is me, but I go to school and work, so this shouldn't be an issue.

When I give the food I first thaw it in warm (not hot) water for a while until the mouse isn't frozen. I do this in a plastic bag because I don't want the mouse to get wet.
Then I use a hair dryer to scent the room
This technique worked really well until 2 months back..

Do you guys have any idea of what could be wrong with him? I think he's too young to fast for breeding season.. do you guys think feeding live might work?
I honestly don't like the idea of feeding live - because what am I supposed to do with the mouse if Luciano doesn't eat it???

And most importantly: does this influence his health? How long can he fast till it becomes dangerous? Or is there another reason why he won't eat?

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It would be helpful to know the current weight of the snake and the weight of the food item offered. If the mouse is too big or too small that may be an issue. Personally I'd try a live rat crawler, but you would have to know a local breeder and would have to return the crawler if your snake didn't eat it since it won't survive without it's mom. I'd target the prey item weight to be about 10% of the weight of the snake. You may try live for one or two feedings and go back to frozen thawed just to get some food in him. With that kind of a response I can almost guarantee he will take live right away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

It would be helpful to know the current weight of the snake and the weight of the food item offered. If the mouse is too big or too small that may be an issue. Personally I'd try a live rat crawler, but you would have to know a local breeder and would have to return the crawler if your snake didn't eat it since it won't survive without it's mom. I'd target the prey item weight to be about 10% of the weight of the snake. You may try live for one or two feedings and go back to frozen thawed just to get some food in him. With that kind of a response I can almost guarantee he will take live right away.

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My snake weighs 260 gram and I feed him mouse are between 20 to 30 gram, though usually around 22/23, so that should be okay.
I will try to get a live mouse/rat

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I let my mouse thaw in a bag on the counter. I then throw it into a container of the hottest water out of the tap still in the bag for 10 min. If they refuse at first stick the head in the water for a minute and dab excess water off and re offer. Most times that works like a charm.

As above or heat with a hairdryer . Main thing is it HAS to be WARM !!

I dangle the warm mouse in front of their hide entrance and they strike from their hides ...



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sunnieskys

I let my mouse thaw in a bag on the counter. I then throw it into a container of the hottest water out of the tap still in the bag for 10 min. If they refuse at first stick the head in the water for a minute and dab excess water off and re offer. Most times that works like a charm.

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Thank you!! I will definitely try that last thing, it's difficult to get the mouse warm, even with my hair dryer, it seems as if the heat just goes away after a minute. I hope this will work - I am probably gonna try and feed him tonight

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A couple of things that came to mind when reading this thread (because I have a picky eater as well).

You mention about making sure the mouse doesn't get wet. I double bag mine as well but one time the mouse still got a little wet. When I heated him up w/ the hair dryer, I could for the 1st time smell the mouse which REALLY excited my BP. I've never seen him so excited. So not sure if that would help or if it's frowned upon by more experienced owners.

Another thing I try to do is offer late at night w/ using as little light as possible. Once he decides he's not going to strike, I drop the F/T in front of his hide and I leave the room until the next morning. I know that might be hard for you since it's in your bedroom but maybe try to control the lighting and interaction as much as possible.

Good luck!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miss_lestrange

Thank you!! I will definitely try that last thing, it's difficult to get the mouse warm, even with my hair dryer, it seems as if the heat just goes away after a minute. I hope this will work - I am probably gonna try and feed him tonight

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That's the secret !

You have to have everything planned then heat with hairdryer then offer INSTANTLY , then keep repeating the warming , instant offering and so on until it grabs it . It can take 7 or 8 goes .


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

That's the secret !

You have to have everything planned then heat with hairdryer then offer INSTANTLY , then keep repeating the warming , instant offering and so on until it grabs it . It can take 7 or 8 goes .


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7 or 8 goes really? I always give up after 3-4 thinking it's a lost cause. Maybe I need to be more patient :)

He doesn't have to be breeding size to fast. My mail fasted the first season at 200 grams for 10 weeks, then ate a rat then fasted 3 more weeks and was fine all summer.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

7 or 8 goes really? I always give up after 3-4 thinking it's a lost cause. Maybe I need to be more patient :)

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They tend to get more and more interested with each warm up .. makes sense to just keep going [emoji4]
Once you taste success your confidence in the method grows of course..

If there is no interest at all , not even tongue flicking / tasting then I leave it for a week or so

Just remember to heat then offer the same second - have it in the tongs whilst warming ....

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In the many years I've fed frozen thawed I never had a issue with the rodents being "wet". The bagging is just to much work and it insulates the rodent quite a bit from getting "hot". The blow dryer is just to time consuming for me.

I thaw in cold water for a few hours and when getting ready to feed I dump the cold water and add hot water (not boiling hot of course) After 10 minutes I dump that and add hot water again. That is usually enough for rat weanlings and small rats. Medium and large rats get another "dump and add hot water, so 3 times) Really small rodents, mouse hoppers, rat fuzzies and pups get 2 x 5 minutes.

I have special square cheap white towels. They are only for snake feeding. I wrap the hot/wet rodents in a towel and carry them from the utility sink in my laundry room to the snake rack. By the time I get there most water is absorbed and the rodents are still very warm. I usually have another towel with me and give each rodent a quick "rub" to fluff the hair a bit. They sure still smell of rodent and they are nice and very warm, through and through. Offer and WHAMMO.

So far I've found that the quickest and easiest method of frozen thawed feeding after lots of experimenting around.

I let those towels air dry in the garage and when I have 4 or 6 used ones, I wash them separate on a short / hot cycle in the washing machine. Much easier then using rolls and rolls of paper towels or messing about with baggies and whatnot. I'm done feeding everyone in 30 minutes, and most of that time is simply waiting on rodents to warm up in the water.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

In the many years I've fed frozen thawed I never had a issue with the rodents being "wet". The bagging is just to much work and it insulates the rodent quite a bit from getting "hot". The blow dryer is just to time consuming for me.

I thaw in cold water for a few hours and when getting ready to feed I dump the cold water and add hot water (not boiling hot of course) After 10 minutes I dump that and add hot water again. That is usually enough for rat weanlings and small rats. Medium and large rats get another "dump and add hot water, so 3 times) Really small rodents, mouse hoppers, rat fuzzies and pups get 2 x 5 minutes.

I have special square cheap white towels. They are only for snake feeding. I wrap the hot/wet rodents in a towel and carry them from the utility sink in my laundry room to the snake rack. By the time I get there most water is absorbed and the rodents are still very warm. I usually have another towel with me and give each rodent a quick "rub" to fluff the hair a bit. They sure still smell of rodent and they are nice and very warm, through and through. Offer and WHAMMO.

So far I've found that the quickest and easiest method of frozen thawed feeding after lots of experimenting around.

I let those towels air dry in the garage and when I have 4 or 6 used ones, I wash them separate on a short / hot cycle in the washing machine. Much easier then using rolls and rolls of paper towels or messing about with baggies and whatnot. I'm done feeding everyone in 30 minutes, and most of that time is simply waiting on rodents to warm up in the water.

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That sounds great and it clearly works for you ... mine don't always grab it the first time though so the bonus of the hairdryer method is that if/when they ignore or simply miss the strike you can immediately give it a 5- 10 second blast and offer instantly again , then repeat as many times as it takes. ..


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

That sounds great and it clearly works for you ... mine don't always grab it the first time though so the bonus of the hairdryer method is that if/when they ignore or simply miss the strike you can immediately give it a 5- 10 second blast and offer instantly again , then repeat as many times as it takes. ..


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Yup, I've had to do that a lot with the stubborn hatchlings. I never re-use the water method. The hair dryer DOES work, esp. if you have the ones that don't go for it right away and have to "think about it". LOL.

Sadly the little :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: didn't eat. First I tried the hair dryer thing, but it just didn't get warm, so then I just dumped the mouse in warm water and then dried it, but Luciano showed only a little interest but didn't strike. He did get all excited though and wanted to come out of his terrarium, so I kept trying to offer the mouse, sadly he preferred sitting on my lap over eating a mouse.
I left it again overnight but he refused to eat it.

I'm thinking about putting him in a tube to test out if he feels more comfortable (I first want to make sure that the fasting isn't caused by a mistake in my set up), and if that doesn't work...well then he's just being a little idiot.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miss_lestrange

Sadly the little :cens0r::cens0r::cens0r::cens0r: didn't eat. First I tried the hair dryer thing, but it just didn't get warm, so then I just dumped the mouse in warm water and then dried it, but Luciano showed only a little interest but didn't strike. He did get all excited though and wanted to come out of his terrarium, so I kept trying to offer the mouse, sadly he preferred sitting on my lap over eating a mouse.
I left it again overnight but he refused to eat it.

I'm thinking about putting him in a tube to test out if he feels more comfortable (I first want to make sure that the fasting isn't caused by a mistake in my set up), and if that doesn't work...well then he's just being a little idiot.

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When you say the hairdryer doesn't warm the mouse up ... do you mean it's not warm too touch as it doesn't have to be too hot ... we are 98.4 so if it feels warm to touch it may be over 100F which is probably warm enough to get a strike at least . From the feedback I've seen it looks as though many try it once maybe twice and give up but it sometimes takes 7 or 8 or more warm ups and offerings ...

Another mistake is warming up the mouse/rat and taking too long to get it under he snakes nose ...


For anyone else ..

Feed evenings , low lighting , hold the nose in tongs , blast for 5 to 10 seconds on hot setting then dangle it under the snake's nose INSTANTLY..

Many like mine will only strike from UNDER their hides so dangle it at the hide entrance when they are inside .




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That last but one section ...

Hold the MOUSE in tongs not the NOSE .... that would be daft [emoji4]


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