Is my Female pastel expecting?

A week ago i bought 2 ball pythons from a guy. I assumed since one is male, and one is female, and they live in the same big enclosure they have bred. So i asked. He said yes. They give a clutch of about 12. I was shocked and happy. (Though i am new to breeding.) He forgot to tell me that they had already been locking this year. I witnessed that when i set them up at my house (in the same big enclosure) . So i have begun to prepair for the eggs (if she has any) i purchased everything i need to make a diy incubator. Im currently setting up a 40gal tank for her so she can be in a more controlled enviroment (the original enclosure is mostly mesh with wood) They were outside snakes before . I keep them inside. She already stays in the coolest spot in the enclosure. I have not palpated her yet (she ate 2 medium rats yesterday). She does seem to have a beautiful glow to her. Her lips even lightened in color. A pretty orangish/gold . I have only had them for a week (i have many others so im not inexperienced, ive just never bred) . shes fiesty when i open her coolspot/breeding box. (The guy built for her). I went to my fav reptile place and explained my situation. Hes a bp breeder so he kinda helped but the store was busy. He gave me this coconut fiber stuff and said put it in the box with her and keep it moist (to keep humidity in , since i brought the enclosure inside instead of outside in florida weather). Which is okay.

My main "?'s" :

How can i tell if shes gravid?

How long will it take for her to have eggs?

Should i keep letting them lock?

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This is her. Her controlled heating pad and humidty reader thing is coming today at 4https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...dd15b69a71.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...59781dcd3f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...61502a3b83.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...de4680aca4.jpg

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How can i tell if shes gravid?

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Females are gravid once they ovulate, if she is on the cool end she has not ovulated and there fore she is not gravid.

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How long will it take for her to have eggs?

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45 days from ovulation

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Should i keep letting them lock?

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NO you are not prepared, you need to do some research and provide proper husbandry for those 2, understand how to care for and how to read your animals among other things before worrying about bringing more into this world that you may or may not find a home for.

When you breed you need to have a rack for hatchlings, know how to start an hatchlings, breed your own feeders to start your offsprings or have a reliable source, and it's costly, and again you will likely end up stuck with the offspring because it's not like the market is not flooded with pastel and normal already and in it's first year an hatchling will run you about $50 multiple that by 10 to 12 plus equipment and if you sell them you may get $10 to $40 each. That's the reality of breeding low end animals.

Im not in it for the $$$ at all. Im not a newbie..ive been planning to breed..but starting small. I have the right set ups for the hatchlings. And i have an incubator and im experienced at incunating many different species from chickens to lizards. I just have never had snake eggs. I just palpated (i think thats how u spell it) her and felt about 8 "lumps". Keep in mind they locked and have been locking way before i got them. So its not like i did it on purpose. As soon as i seen them locking i immediatly went and bought all the proper equitment. Im just looking for some pointers in the right direction -_-

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$$$ or not it's not the point, the point is the market is over flooded, so finding a good home even free will be hard, the question to ask yourself is should you bring animals to this world that will be hard to place?

If it was me and I had an unexpected clutch of animal that would be hard to place I would freeze the eggs.

You have limited experience based on your posts, you need to research a lot of things before even thinking about breeding, proper husbandry (the enclosure is NOT suitable), proper feeding, proper understanding of the species which I do not see based on your previous threads.

Then once you have experience under your belt you need to research genetics, proper hatching care, understanding of the market saturation and what it means for the animal and you as a breeder.

You need to learn to walk before you can run and not be part of those people that buy a BP one day and want to breed 2 weeks later.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

$$$ or not it's not the point, the point is the market is over flooded, so finding a good home even free will be hard, the question to ask yourself is should you bring animals to this world that will be hard to place?

If it was me and I had an unexpected clutch of animal that would be hard to place I would freeze the eggs.

You have limited experience based on your posts, you need to research a lot of things before even thinking about breeding, proper husbandry (the enclosure is NOT suitable), proper feeding, proper understanding of the species which I do not see based on your previous threads.

Then once you have experience under your belt you need to research genetics, proper hatching care, understanding of the market saturation and what it means for the animal and you as a breeder.

You need to learn to walk before you can run and not be part of those people that buy a BP one day and want to breed 2 weeks later.

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Yeah, I've got to agree completely with Deborah here.

You want to bring baby BP's into the world without knowing you can place them, or that they will be given proper care?

That doesn't make sense to me.

I agree, freeze the eggs.

Also, following your other thread, I would separate the snakes as you said you would, and make sure your husbandry is top notch, whatever you decide to do.

Finally, I know sometimes it seems people are being harsh on this site, but they have your interests and your animals interests at heart. Up to you if you want to listen, but to not listen to correct answers, argue with a moderator (Deborah), who probably knows about 100X more than most people on this site, just seems silly to me.

What seems silly to me is the lack of faith todays basic community has in someone. Im well aware of the market for pastels and regulars. And i have a rack to keep every single one of them in. As well as an experienced breeder who wants half the clutch..a couple i am keeping. Thanks for the tips. I think i can handle it. Hope is all we have these days..and some people cant live with the idea of someone a little less experienced then them can handle such a task at hand. I got this. Delete this. Ban me. Idc. I simply came here for advice and to be a part of a snake community. Thats obv not the case here. [emoji108][emoji111][emoji114][emoji122][emoji23]

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Originally Posted by Babygecko

What seems silly to me is the lack of faith todays basic community has in someone. Im well aware of the market for pastels and regulars. And i have a rack to keep every single one of them in. As well as an experienced breeder who wants half the clutch..a couple i am keeping. Thanks for the tips. I think i can handle it. Hope is all we have these days..and some people cant live with the idea of someone a little less experienced then them can handle such a task at hand. I got this. Delete this. Ban me. Idc. I simply came here for advice and to be a part of a snake community. Thats obv not the case here. [emoji108][emoji111][emoji114][emoji122][emoji23]

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What Deb is getting at is that your husbandry standards alone do seem on par with someone that should be breeding in the first place. Every reputable breeder that I know of has the care of their animals down to a T. After all, in many cases you will be the one being asked by your customers for basic care information. While some of this may seem pretty harsh we are just saying what needs to be said. Don't take it as an insult, just do your research first.... and you need to do a lot of it before you ever consider breeding. Housing two breeders to a glass tank is a very good starting point to work on though.

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Originally Posted by Babygecko

What seems silly to me is the lack of faith todays basic community has in someone. Im well aware of the market for pastels and regulars. And i have a rack to keep every single one of them in. As well as an experienced breeder who wants half the clutch..a couple i am keeping. Thanks for the tips. I think i can handle it. Hope is all we have these days..and some people cant live with the idea of someone a little less experienced then them can handle such a task at hand. I got this. Delete this. Ban me. Idc. I simply came here for advice and to be a part of a snake community. Thats obv not the case here. [emoji108][emoji111][emoji114][emoji122][emoji23]

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Oh boy, over reacting much??? I see people like you every year, own 1 or two snakes for less than a year, want to breed or end up with eggs not being prepared, are in over their head, and less than 5 years later sell everything.

You do not want advice that may spare you from making a mistake or two and make this an enjoyable experience rather than one where you struggle, fine enjoy you won't be the first putting the carriage before the horses. :gj:

You need hapiness in your life [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji111][emoji111][emoji108][emoji108]

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Originally Posted by Babygecko

What seems silly to me is the lack of faith todays basic community has in someone. Im well aware of the market for pastels and regulars. And i have a rack to keep every single one of them in. As well as an experienced breeder who wants half the clutch..a couple i am keeping. Thanks for the tips. I think i can handle it. Hope is all we have these days..and some people cant live with the idea of someone a little less experienced then them can handle such a task at hand. I got this. Delete this. Ban me. Idc. I simply came here for advice and to be a part of a snake community. Thats obv not the case here. [emoji108][emoji111][emoji114][emoji122][emoji23]

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If you were well aware of the market for normals and pastels then why breed them? How much research have you done? You moving the snake to feed shows that you should probably wait to learn and get more experience before taking on something as big as breeding.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Oh boy, over reacting much??? I see people like you every year, own 1 or two snakes for less than a year, want to breed or end up with eggs not being prepared, are in over their head, and less than 5 years later sell everything.

You do not want advice that may spare you from making a mistake or two and make this an enjoyable experience rather than one where you struggle, fine enjoy you won't be the first putting the carriage before the horses. :gj:

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5 years! That's forever for someone unhappy with reptiles!

I try to gently pace people. However, it's not my say, and I know it. It's also not about me and I need to pace myself and not take it personally when people don't want to listen.

However, so many people get turned off by proper advice, or do not ask for it, and end up with an unhappy, or worse, sick or dead animal, and then hate the hobby.

I know, I learned the hard way as a kid. I lost an iguana not knowing about calcium deficiency. This was pre-internet and I was 10 years old (1990). My parents figured it would fine to let me get pets if I wanted them, but I didn't know how to properly care for them and my parent's didn't bother learning either.

After that horrific experience, with a young iguana dying in my arms, I vowed to learn proper husbandry etc. and never let that happen again. I was an adult before I attempted keeping reptiles again, and, I had the internet and forums like this, on my side.

I have made a point of pacing myself, only getting what I can take care of, and making sure all my animals (canine and reptilian) are properly cared for. I also have to ensure that my job, friends, and fiancé, do not suffer either. I could care for more animals, but at what expense?

Even for me, it's hard to hear if I am doing something wrong, but I am always learning. It is clear that most users have my, and my pets, best interests at heart on this site.

Still, sometimes the desire to acquire, and/or pride, outweighs the desire, or more often, the ability, to do good by the animal(s). It's human nature, but it's also so sad to see people burn out and leave the hobby.

Deborah, you do your best, all the moderators and most of the users (frequent posters for sure), do the same.

That's all we can do. Oh, and share our frustration. We can also help the people who want it and want what's best for their animals. Those people have the potential to be reptile keepers for life/a long time.

I think some people who have just joined, or start posting, etc. do not realize that we have a small community of active users. We try to help and be there for each other, and for them. Many may not mean to step on toes, but from where I sit, when someone attacks a moderator, or a fellow community member/user, I get frustrated.

Not sure if this is even the right place to put all this, but it seemed relevant.

Thank you to all/any who read this.

K. Im just gonna leave you guys here talking about how unexperienced i am based on questions i ask [emoji23]. You ever wonder why you guys are such a small community?? [emoji12]

Because your set in your ways, and not willing to accept the fact that people are different! They do things differently. [emoji23][emoji23]

For those of you who were nice and PMd me with KIND NON JUDGING or SHAMING manor THANK YOU [emoji173][emoji216]


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Originally Posted by Babygecko

You need hapiness in your life [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji111][emoji111][emoji108][emoji108]

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Really, that is all you've got to say ?

Perhaps the advice you have gotten was point blank and NOT what you wanted to hear. But it was the right advice.
In turn you get offended, over react and finally downright rude.

The sad truth is that every one of those hatchlings is going to COST you money. You will not even get your investment back. Normals are hardly selling. You say your "breeder" friend will take some. The one with the "busy" store ? He will take some because he can sell them through the store. Which is hardly the place you want your babies to end up at. And most potential new owners that do the least amount of research are not going to go to a store to buy a overpriced "normal" BP from questionable sources when they can buy one from a reputable breeder for $25 or less.

No experienced breeder will take "normals" from some newbie that just so happened to have a clutch. For one, they probably can't use any normals and if they needed some, they'd have plenty of their own. No need to bring outside ones in, that may carry diseases, mites, etc. Many normal hatchlings end up as kingsnake food. Or food for other snake eating species.

Even if you GIVE them away (which is not as easy as you may think) they may very well end up passed along several times and dead before a year old. Let me tell you, if you manage to get everything to work out, hatchlings are a LOT of work. Getting them to eat is not as easy as you may think. You may very well waste several rodents per hatchling. Rodents, that cost quite a bit, unless you breed them yourself. After all that work and trouble you WILL be attached. To attached to hand them over to a crappy start at a petstore. Or to anybody that just saw "free" snake. However...what are YOU going to do with possibly 10+ BP's if you decide to keep them ? Most of them "normals" ? Esp. since you said you eventually wanted to get into breeding. Well, where are all those BP's going to end up? In your breeding program? I think normals are lovely, many people do, but it doesn't change the reality there is basically NO market left for them. You will not be able to use them "if" breeding is your ultimate goal. So why set them up for failure, or yourself?

Esp. since you have SO much yet to learn. We see 2 snakes that were obviously kept the wrong way. Yes, they are big and look healthy. So, they survived DESPITE the less then perfect care, NOT because of it.

You took them and put them in a radically different environment. While they are in the same cage, the cage is now subject to completely different temperatures and humidty. Despite all that, you already fed your female, a much to large meal I may say so. Those 2 medium rats are now sitting in that females gut, beginning to rott without the correct heat (as you said, heat and controllers were still "on their way") If you are lucky she will survive this. If not, you will have some huge problems very soon.

So when we see things like that, we see someone that needs a lot of help still to get the very basics right. And there is always help here. But it is obvious to most that you should not be concentrating on that clutch, but on those adults. Learn how to set them up properly and get that done. Meanwhile learn all you can, take SOME TIME to get it right. If you still want to breed later on, you will be better prepared. And not just by owning an incubator and rack and knowing someone that will take some babies. But also by knowing HOW to set up the adults, how to breed them correctly, how to set up hatchlings correctly, what to expect from a market and how to go about everything just right, incl. genetics, marketing, selling.

The reptile community is small, word goes around quick. If you ever plan on being known as a reputable breeder and seller, and I'm not saying a BIG breeder, or only investment animals, I'm saying a REPUTABLE one, then don't get a poor reputation before you even get started. Do right by THESE animals. And then go from there.

When it is about the well being of your animals (and the ones that would be produced) you will need to accept that people will not make your feelings their first priority. And you will need to learn to accept advice without getting defensive. We all are still learning.

Sorry for any grammer or spelling errors, english is my second language and I don't feel like proof reading right now ;)

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Originally Posted by Babygecko

K. Im just gonna leave you guys here talking about how unexperienced i am based on questions i ask [emoji23]. You ever wonder why you guys are such a small community?? [emoji12]

Because your set in your ways, and not willing to accept the fact that people are different! They do things differently. [emoji23][emoji23]

For those of you who were nice and PMd me with KIND NON JUDGING or SHAMING manor THANK YOU [emoji173][emoji216]


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Trust me, it was not just based on your questions.

Noone is "set in their ways". The animals welfare is the priority for people. There is a lot of accepting to do things differently. Like whether you set up in a cage or rack (as long as either is correct) etc. However, there is only so much "different" before its plain wrong, wrong as in "detrimental to health and well being".

You think "this" community is small ? Its been around since before facebook and has been invaluable to anyone wanting to learn and willing to learn.

However, there are many facebook communities you can try out, they will be quite different from here. You may like them better.

I wish you and your animals best of luck !

You guys ARE something else. [emoji34] leaving now

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Originally Posted by Babygecko

You guys ARE something else. [emoji34] leaving now

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You asked for advice and you got it. It's your choice whether you take that advice or not- but don't let your snakes suffer because you don't want to admit that you're wrong.

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Originally Posted by zina10

english is my second language

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Completely off topic but what is your first language? I need to know so when I read your posts i can narrate with the right accent

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Originally Posted by c0r3yr0s3

Completely off topic but what is your first language? I need to know so when I read your posts i can narrate with the right accent

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German.

Now rooollll that "r" when you say it! ;)

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Originally Posted by zina10

German.

Now rooollll that "r" when you say it! ;)

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American people can't do that, but we European have mastered it ;)

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Originally Posted by Deborah

American people can't do that, but we European have mastered it ;)

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You'rrrrre rrright :D

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Originally Posted by Babygecko

You guys ARE something else. [emoji34] leaving now

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Good luck on your own then op, you'll need it if this is how you respond to constructive criticism. Just keep in mind the right thing to do isn't always what you want to hear. Don't let your ego be more important than the well being of your snakes.

I think a FB group,will be perfect for the op. Nastiness goes hand in hand there. Don't let the door hit ya where the good energy split ya. Buh bye now.

OP, let me chime in by saying...
You're NOT ready to breed. Please for the love of living things consider that these are LIVING THINGS!

You come on here asking questions a 3rd grader can find answers to with a Google search...you're NOT ready to breed.

You get all butt hurt when answers aren't what you want to hear...you're NOT ready to breed.

You're insistent upon cohabbing solitary snakes after youve had DECADES of experience with thousands of snakes tell you its a bad idea...you're NOT ready to breed.

Somebody else cited the separate cardboard box makeshift "feeding tub" as an example of not being ready. A basic understanding of snakes would tell you separate feeding tubs are counter productive...you're NOT ready to breed.

Look, I'm not trying to knock you down, just trying to open your eyes to the fact that you're NOT ready to breed. Think selflessly for a while, open your eyes to the fact that these are living animals. Do the right thing. Seperate the snakes, house tjem both properly, do some homework and revisit the idea in a few years.

I will never understand why people ask questions they have already made the answer to themselves? And why so many just want to jump right into breeding? Why not enjoy the animals you are blessed to have in your life verses try to make them into more work and little if any reward? I will gladly leave that pain in the bottom with feeding hatchling, and heaven forbid deformed babies you have to humanly euthanize that would breask my heart :tears: but I guess you can lead the horse to water but you can't make them drink.. Thank you to all the fabulous people who take time and energy to help make sure all are noodles are getting what they need and deserve you guys are the BEST ~hugs~