is this somehow unfair to Yellow?

so Yellow has an AP T8 right? he's had it for over 2 years now. i have the opportunity to purchase an adult 41qt rack; i've been planning on moving on to rack systems for a while now.

my question is: would it be somehow unfair if i moved Yellow from his T8 into this adult rack? i feel like if i did so, i'd be taking so much away from him. am i just anthropomorphizing him? would he actually miss the extra space? i feel bad even thinking about it lol. but it would be kinda nice to keep him in a rack along with everyone else. plus i'm sure someone on here could use a T8.

any thoughts? advice? thanks for reading!

Move him and send the T8 to Long Island. Problem solved!! Lol

nah just kidding. I’m a total newb but I’d feel as you do...

if the animal is used to it and doing well I’d be hard pressed to move him. However, I read many folks and breeders use the system you want to.

How active is he in the evening and all? Is he a mover or a chiller?

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

so Yellow has an AP T8 right? he's had it for over 2 years now. i have the opportunity to purchase an adult 41qt rack; i've been planning on moving on to rack systems for a while now.

my question is: would it be somehow unfair if i moved Yellow from his T8 into this adult rack? i feel like if i did so, i'd be taking so much away from him. am i just anthropomorphizing him? would he actually miss the extra space? i feel bad even thinking about it lol. but it would be kinda nice to keep him in a rack along with everyone else. plus i'm sure someone on here could use a T8.

any thoughts? advice? thanks for reading!

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I guess that's more of a question if he uses that extra space in the T8? Mine seems to jump from hide to hide so I wouldn't think it would be unfair to the BP. On that same note, if you do switch enclosures, does the same 3 week (feeding / handling) rule still apply that exists when you 1st inherit a BP? Was always curious about that.

You will have the "die hard cage fans" tell you its detrimental to the snake.

However, "imho" it is not. That is plenty of space. He will most likely be stressed for a bit, but not because you are going to a smaller spot, but simply because it is a NEW spot.

So far, in my experience (and I have had and do have both racks and display cages) BP's do exceptionally well in racks. As long as husbandry is correct. I've had years of observation. I've seen snakes moved from cages to tubs, tubs to cages.

Both can work. In the case of a BP I feel that the very big and elaborate setups are more pleasing and enjoyable to the human, then necessary to the snake. A display cage can be a wonderful thing, a work of art. If you do it right, a BP can thrive in one. But in that case I wouldn't want a AP T8 anyway, but something with a bit more height and visibility.

As long as you still handle your snake every so often, give it a chance to stretch out and move about, he will be perfectly fine and most likely quite happy once he has had tome to get used to having a "new" spot.

imho ;)

Does it eat and poop and not get stressed in the tub? That's what you want to know. Ball pythons will use every inch of space you give them. They are creepy crawlers. They will also live just fine in an adequately provided rack tub.

Your snake doesn't need you to handle it just provide cleaning services, water, and food. If you can do that in a rack and keep it from deteriorating health wise then who cares where you keep your snake. My feelings are negative toward racks for keepers because I feel that if you need a rack then you have too many snakes and you can't provide the best quality of life. I mention this to just prove that other people's opinions don't me jack so long as you provide for your snakes and they are healthy.

I wouldn't want to move mine into a rack personally, and he uses his extra space, even if it's just to chill in 3-4 spots instead of 2. However, I just don't prefer racks in general. I don't know that there's any reason to believe that a snake moved from a larger cage into a rack would feel much different about it than a snake that's always been in a rack. Since you don't seem hard-pressed to move the cage, but do want to move the snake, you could always move him but hold onto the empty cage for an extra month or so and see if anything makes you feel the need to move him back. If you're comfortable with your decision after that, you can sell the cage with no regrets.

I tend to overdo cage size for my snakes. My BP currently is in a 6X2X1' enclosure. It's part of a stack and my BCI and BTS need and want the space. So, even my corn snake is in a 6X2!

However, as long as there is a good temperature gradient, proper humidity, and the enclosure, whatever it is, is kept clean, I do not think the snake cares.

We do tend to anthropomorphize too much. Even with dogs, we tend to overdo it. Snakes do not think like we do. They just want basic needs met.

In no particular order:

1. Heat/Temp Gradient
2. Humidity
3. Security
4. Cleanliness
5. Food
6. Water

I think snakes, especially BP's, who like to borough in nature, like to feel safe and do in tight spaces. My BP spends 90% of her time in a hide, if not more.

Racks can make it easier for a snake to feel secure.

Having said that, you can do things in tanks to create a similar effect.

Bottom line, I do not think yellow will hold it against you at all. If you meet his basic needs, he will be fine. He likely won't even remember the old tank about 5 minutes after you move him into the new one! No offense to Yellow, but snakes really tend to live in the moment.

I would leave him alone for a week to get settled if you move him.

Maybe just keep one display setup featuring the one that started it all for you?

I mean, let's be honest, you'll fill the rack anyway, hahaha. An empty tub just means another BP!! Win for Yellow, win for Taylor & win for a new snake getting a great home with a great keeper!

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Originally Posted by Phillydubs

Move him and send the T8 to Long Island. Problem solved!! Lol

nah just kidding. I’m a total newb but I’d feel as you do...

if the animal is used to it and doing well I’d be hard pressed to move him. However, I read many folks and breeders use the system you want to.

How active is he in the evening and all? Is he a mover or a chiller?

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definite chiller. he has 3 hides in his T8 and i see him use all 3, but he's not much for exploring or climbing at night unless he's tearing apart his enclosure looking for food.

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Originally Posted by ckuhn003

I guess that's more of a question if he uses that extra space in the T8? Mine seems to jump from hide to hide so I wouldn't think it would be unfair to the BP. On that same note, if you do switch enclosures, does the same 3 week (feeding / handling) rule still apply that exists when you 1st inherit a BP? Was always curious about that.

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he has 3 hides in his T8 and i see him use all 3, but he's not much for climbing or exploring at night like he was as a kid.

if i were to move him into a rack i'd probably give him 2 weeks to adjust before offering, and i'd apply the 3 meals rule but not consecutively. adults take longer to acclimate than youngin's and since he's an established adult i wouldn't worry about eating consecutively.

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Originally Posted by zina10

You will have the "die hard cage fans" tell you its detrimental to the snake.

However, "imho" it is not. That is plenty of space. He will most likely be stressed for a bit, but not because you are going to a smaller spot, but simply because it is a NEW spot.

So far, in my experience (and I have had and do have both racks and display cages) BP's do exceptionally well in racks. As long as husbandry is correct. I've had years of observation. I've seen snakes moved from cages to tubs, tubs to cages.

Both can work. In the case of a BP I feel that the very big and elaborate setups are more pleasing and enjoyable to the human, then necessary to the snake. A display cage can be a wonderful thing, a work of art. If you do it right, a BP can thrive in one. But in that case I wouldn't want a AP T8 anyway, but something with a bit more height and visibility.

As long as you still handle your snake every so often, give it a chance to stretch out and move about, he will be perfectly fine and most likely quite happy once he has had tome to get used to having a "new" spot.

imho ;)

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your input and experience is always appreciated by me, zina.

i'm probably overthinking this too much, TBH. my snakes do well in my care, and i feel like i know Yellow like the back of my hand; if he ends up not adjusting well, i will know and correct the issue. Yellow uses all 3 of his hides, but he's not one for climbing on his decor or heavy exploring like he did as a kid. i feel like this is really selfish of me, but if he ends up doing well then would it matter? nah.

regarding the bit i've bolded: that is the route i'd like to move towards. i'm currently trying to find a 40-gal or bigger for Corny; i'd like him to be my only true display animal (for now) as he uses literally every inch of his current 20-gal.

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Originally Posted by SDA

Does it eat and poop and not get stressed in the tub? That's what you want to know. Ball pythons will use every inch of space you give them. They are creepy crawlers. They will also live just fine in an adequately provided rack tub.

Your snake doesn't need you to handle it just provide cleaning services, water, and food. If you can do that in a rack and keep it from deteriorating health wise then who cares where you keep your snake. My feelings are negative toward racks for keepers because I feel that if you need a rack then you have too many snakes and you can't provide the best quality of life. I mention this to just prove that other people's opinions don't me jack so long as you provide for your snakes and they are healthy.

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thanks for your input, SDA! you're absolutely right: health is what's important. if he ends up thriving in the rack, then good. if not? then back to the T8 he goes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kcl

I wouldn't want to move mine into a rack personally, and he uses his extra space, even if it's just to chill in 3-4 spots instead of 2. However, I just don't prefer racks in general. I don't know that there's any reason to believe that a snake moved from a larger cage into a rack would feel much different about it than a snake that's always been in a rack. Since you don't seem hard-pressed to move the cage, but do want to move the snake, you could always move him but hold onto the empty cage for an extra month or so and see if anything makes you feel the need to move him back. If you're comfortable with your decision after that, you can sell the cage with no regrets.

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i will definitely be going that route: see how he adjusts before selling my T8. i'd never "force" him to stay in a rack if he didn't want to and let me know it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

so Yellow has an AP T8 right? he's had it for over 2 years now. i have the opportunity to purchase an adult 41qt rack; i've been planning on moving on to rack systems for a while now.

my question is: would it be somehow unfair if i moved Yellow from his T8 into this adult rack? i feel like if i did so, i'd be taking so much away from him. am i just anthropomorphizing him? would he actually miss the extra space? i feel bad even thinking about it lol. but it would be kinda nice to keep him in a rack along with everyone else. plus i'm sure someone on here could use a T8.

any thoughts? advice? thanks for reading!

---

I couldnt do it.. Im sorry tttaylorrr but you know I love how my girls enjoy the room and i actually believe they do too. Im sure what they dont know wont hurt them... But Yellow has been living good already.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakski

I tend to overdo cage size for my snakes. My BP currently is in a 6X2X1' enclosure. It's part of a stack and my BCI and BTS need and want the space. So, even my corn snake is in a 6X2!

However, as long as there is a good temperature gradient, proper humidity, and the enclosure, whatever it is, is kept clean, I do not think the snake cares.

We do tend to anthropomorphize too much. Even with dogs, we tend to overdo it. Snakes do not think like we do. They just want basic needs met.

In no particular order:

1. Heat/Temp Gradient
2. Humidity
3. Security
4. Cleanliness
5. Food
6. Water

I think snakes, especially BP's, who like to borough in nature, like to feel safe and do in tight spaces. My BP spends 90% of her time in a hide, if not more.

Racks can make it easier for a snake to feel secure.

Having said that, you can do things in tanks to create a similar effect.

Bottom line, I do not think yellow will hold it against you at all. If you meet his basic needs, he will be fine. He likely won't even remember the old tank about 5 minutes after you move him into the new one! No offense to Yellow, but snakes really tend to live in the moment.

I would leave him alone for a week to get settled if you move him.

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i'm currently on the lookout for a 40-gal or bigger for Corny. he uses EVERY inch of his current 20-gal and i want to set him up in a beautiful display tank.

Yellow really doesn't use all of his T8, though he does use all hides provided, which is part of the reason why i felt conflicted about this. he's very much a home-body and really only "explores" when he's destroying his enclosure for food. he used to be much more active in his younger years, but not so much anymore. i just wonder if i move him into a rack and he gets totally thrown off, if that makes me a bad owner. :( that's basically what this all boils down to, right there.

UGH i know i'm overthinking this lol.

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

I couldnt do it.. Im sorry tttaylorrr but you know I love how my girls enjoy the room and i actually believe they do too. Im sure what they dont know wont hurt them... But Yellow has been living good already.


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I definitely couldn't move my King to anything smaller. He's in a 4x2x2 now and uses every inch. He was in a 40 breeder before and used every inch. But, we'retalking Kings vs BPs here, so kinda apples and oranges. My BP is in the 40 breeder now and I won't go smaller, but because he's already used to the space. I've considered going rack at some point, but wouldn't want to rack Tyson since he's been in the 40.

Tough call, but my vote is Yellow keeps the T8.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

Maybe just keep one display setup featuring the one that started it all for you?

I mean, let's be honest, you'll fill the rack anyway, hahaha. An empty tub just means another BP!! Win for Yellow, win for Taylor & win for a new snake getting a great home with a great keeper!

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that was my original idea, TBH. but since he's such a home-body (he rarely explores or climbs at night) i've been thinking about putting him into a rack. my ethical dilemma is, if i move him and he gets thrown off of food for like 4 months, does that make me selfish and a bad owner? i'd really like to use the space his T8 takes up for something else, but if he needs it then it will not be going anywhere.

and you're absolutely right about this rack getting filled, LOL. this new adult one is 10 shelves. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

I couldnt do it.. Im sorry tttaylorrr but you know I love how my girls enjoy the room and i actually believe they do too. Im sure what they dont know wont hurt them... But Yellow has been living good already.

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Yellow doesn't climb and explore like your girls do; that's the only reason i'm considering moving him into a rack. if he used the space up i would never in a million, billion years think to remove him from his T8. the only times i catch him out at night is when it's close to feeding day and he's destroying his enclosure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

Yellow doesn't climb and explore like your girls do; that's the only reason i'm considering moving him into a rack. if he used the space up i would never in a million, billion years think to remove him from his T8. the only times i catch him out at night is when it's close to feeding day and he's destroying his enclosure.

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Then Id say you know whats best. Sometimes its hard to give advice that might actually be helpful for someone when your own thoughts are clouded by different circumstances. If yours aren't using the space then I would switch too.. Then id get another for the T8 lol.


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You could give it a try. If Yellow seems content then you're good to go and have an empty T8 to sell or fill with a Blood or STP :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

Then Id say you know whats best. Sometimes its hard to give advice that might actually be helpful for someone when your own thoughts are clouded by different circumstances. If yours aren't using the space then I would switch too.. Then id get another for the T8 lol.

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i appreciate your advice regardless :) same for everyone else whose responded. it's not like i'd move Yellow and chuck my T8 out the window; i'd hang on to it for a year, easy.

- - - Updated - - -

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

You could give it a try. If Yellow seems content then you're good to go and have an empty T8 to sell or fill with a Blood or STP :gj:

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^{_{a blood will be my next species, you mark my words.}}

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

i'm currently on the lookout for a 40-gal or bigger for Corny. he uses EVERY inch of his current 20-gal and i want to set him up in a beautiful display tank.

Yellow really doesn't use all of his T8, though he does use all hides provided, which is part of the reason why i felt conflicted about this. he's very much a home-body and really only "explores" when he's destroying his enclosure for food. he used to be much more active in his younger years, but not so much anymore. i just wonder if i move him into a rack and he gets totally thrown off, if that makes me a bad owner. :( that's basically what this all boils down to, right there.

UGH i know i'm overthinking this lol.

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Yeah, my corn is all over the place. Much more active than my BP.

However, you don't have to go crazy there either, they all adapt well if given what they need.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr;2597731

[SUP

_{a blood will be my next species, you mark my words.}[/SUP]

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I'll be looking forward to what you choose!

Put the corn snake in the T8 if Yellow gets moved out lol. ALL THE SPACE for the corn snake. Adventures of corn snake!

Also if yellow goes off food and sulks about the move for months, that will make him just not that hungry and won't make you a bad owner. It also sounds like my bp uses his T8 a lot more than yours - mine will roam sometimes, squish plants, go on top of the shelf sometimes, and looks out the door most of the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kcl

Put the corn snake in the T8 if Yellow gets moved out lol. ALL THE SPACE for the corn snake. Adventures of corn snake!

Also if yellow goes off food and sulks about the move for months, that will make him just not that hungry and won't make you a bad owner. It also sounds like my bp uses his T8 a lot more than yours - mine will roam sometimes, squish plants, go on top of the shelf sometimes, and looks out the door most of the time.

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i'll never forget, maybe a couple months ago while Yellow was deep into his winter fast and i had rarely seen him except for checking he was breathing: i came home after work and did my rounds, some needed cleaning, maybe 20 minutes into my rounds i see Yellow laying on one of his raised platform decoration looking right out at me. literally shocked me! i haven't seen him in months!!! i was like "OH! well hello Yellow! how are you!?" he hung out for a bit to watch me, then hid away. it was like seeing a dog walk on two legs!

to me: he knows where his hides are, and he knows where the doors are. he like his hides. he knows doors = food or person, so he generally stays away from the doors. he explores every now and then, don't get me wrong, but it's pretty darn rare, and why i even thought about moving him in the first place. like i said above: if he was as active as others, then i wouldn't even consider this an option.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

i'll never forget, maybe a couple months ago while Yellow was deep into his winter fast and i had rarely seen him except for checking he was breathing: i came home after work and did my rounds, some needed cleaning, maybe 20 minutes into my rounds i see Yellow laying on one of his raised platform decoration looking right out at me. literally shocked me! i haven't seen him in months!!! i was like "OH! well hello Yellow! how are you!?" he hung out for a bit to watch me, then hid away. it was like seeing a dog walk on two legs!

to me: he knows where his hides are, and he knows where the doors are. he like his hides. he knows doors = food or person, so he generally stays away from the doors. he explores every now and then, don't get me wrong, but it's pretty darn rare, and why i even thought about moving him in the first place. like i said above: if he was as active as others, then i wouldn't even consider this an option.

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You are a wonderful owner and you'll do just right for him. He will be fine ;)
Just follow your gut..

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Originally Posted by zina10

You are a wonderful owner and you'll do just right for him. He will be fine ;)
Just follow your gut..

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thank you, zina. [emoji4]

I had mine guys in larger tanks as well before moving them into racks just recently as well. Each snake is different but like your Yellow my guys were not big explorers at all other then the occasional poking their head out to look for food lol.

For me mine have done a lot better in the rack. They never miss a meal and seem less shy and timid. My oldest boy Meeko did fine in the tank as well and has spent his whole life, even before he came to me, in a tank but he doesn’t seem to be effected by the change at all. It’s like he barely even notices the difference lol. Azura on the other hand has always been very shy, even just walking by her tank if she was looking out she would flinch away. Now when I pull open her tub she doesn’t even move and just looks up at me like “Hello!” Lol

This is just my experience of course and every snake is different but I vote to give it a try! You’ll know what’s best in the end :P


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