Reptile Expos

I've been to a few reptile expos over the past few years and I was just wondering, why are there usually more ball pythons than boas? Is it because ball pythons are seen as an easier beginner snake? Size? I was just curious.

Probably because far more people keep and breed bps over Boas.

Many more BP breeders, many more BP owners, more morphs/patterns/coloration available.

Also, remember, a BCI gets much larger and stronger than a BP. They need much larger enclosures, bigger food items, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I love BCI's (I adore my Ivory Ghost, Behira). However, I wouldn't have a stack of 6X2' enclosures if I only had my BP and corn snake, LOL. I would have smaller tanks for sure (although Frank my BTS loves having the space).

BP's are very popular now, and have been for a while. More and more morphs available, and for less money, every year. They are awesome snakes.

I admit, I am surprised more people do not keep BCI's and other Boa's, except that they are large and need bigger tanks and food, etc. I love BCI's personality and ease of feeding compared to a BP.

However, because of everything listed here, I understand why more people keep BP's.

I love all my reptile family and understand all sides here.

I think it's good that BP's don't get too large and are as popular as they are though. If you could only buy a boid that gets 5-8FT, as opposed to 3-5FT (give or take) for a very manageable BP, we would have fewer people in the hobby. I started at age 10 with a BP and still have a BP today. I like any species that helps people get into the hobby and helps remove stigmas and ignorance.

Very happy I did not start with a BCI! Glad I waited until I was more experienced and settled, etc.

Because of the size and cage requirements, BCI's are considered intermediate to advanced snakes to keep.

BP's are beginner to intermediate. They have almost the same temp and humidity requirements of a BCI, but are noticeably smaller.

Simple supply and demand

A stack of 3 T8's can house 3 boas. If you are a breeder that means 1 male and two females, with the females being paired in alternate years.

In that same physical space you could put a 41-qt rack that could house 8-9 ball pythons, figure 3 males and 6 females depending on the project, with all six females being paired each year.

It really has to do with size. However there are island localities such as hog island, cat caulker ect... that max out around 5 - 6ft. Hogs also have very pretty colors and differ a lot as individuals. But all the morphs are for the bigger BCI and BCC boas. I think if more people bred the smaller localities then they could become more popular. Right now they average around 250 whereas you can get a normal ball python for 20 at an expo. So for a novice snake keeper its easier to get a normal python or for a little more money a cool morph.
Balls just happen to be in that sweet spot of being big but not too big and as such took off. In 20 years maybe boas will be up there but I don't think anytime soon.
What's even crazier to me is how the reticulated python has taken off in recent years. I think they are probably more popular and kept than boas nowadays. That also could be due to size since boas are medium size and too small if you truly wanted a big snake haha.


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Originally Posted by Morgoth

What's even crazier to me is how the reticulated python has taken off in recent years.

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That was a direct result of the government attempting to prohibit interstate transfer/transport, followed by the FWS losing that battle in court shortly afterward.

I was thinking it was the size issue. I was just curious :D. I never see more than like 10-15 boas max, even at the bigger expos. But you see literally hundreds of BPs.

Purely because of popularity. Breeding BPs are in right now. Don't even get me started how many people breed and/or sell these snakes that have no clue what they are doing and even more people buy them having no clue what they are doing.

Sad story... went to an expo this past weekend and as I was walking in some young kid was walking out with two green iguanas in his hands and someone else was walking behind him with a bird cage that they had bought as an enclosure (hint that is a really horrible enclosure for them). I am so glad larger snakes are still not as common as ball pythons. The amount of adult large snakes abandoned is enough to make you depressed.

Rem

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Originally Posted by SDA

Purely because of popularity. Breeding BPs are in right now. Don't even get me started how many people breed and/or sell these snakes that have no clue what they are doing and even more people buy them having no clue what they are doing.

Sad story... went to an expo this past weekend and as I was walking in some young kid was walking out with two green iguanas in his hands and someone else was walking behind him with a bird cage that they had bought as an enclosure (hint that is a really horrible enclosure for them). I am so glad larger snakes are still not as common as ball pythons. The amount of adult large snakes abandoned is enough to make you depressed.

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Agreed. So sad. Many animals that are not huge reptiles get abandoned because people don’t think about the commitment involved.

I wish some breeders would do more to inform people. However, to some, it is just business. Good thing many breeders do care and try to inform and be responsible.

A BP can easily live 20+ years.

Don’t get me started on parents that don’t say no or do their own research etc.

Or adults who want and can afford so therefore it is ok.

In addition to owning reptiles, and other hobbies, I race cars.

If I had a dollar for everytime someone got hurt because they can afford a race car, but are too egotistical or stupid to learn to drive it.

It is endemic in our society. We want but don’t often consider the consequences.

Sorry. I get up upset about this too. Didn’t mean to make a huge societal issue, but I think it is somewhat relevant.

To be clear, and I feel my posts speak for themselves, many people are not like this. Many want what’s best and do take owning reptiles seriously. Most people here seem that way and many people on this site do a lot to help these people.

I don’t want anyone to think I am targeting them or picking on people here. I have really good experiences on this site.

Just a general observation and agreeing with the previous post.

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Originally Posted by SDA

The amount of adult large snakes abandoned is enough to make you depressed.

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This shows how filthy and selfish many humans are. Poor animals, no laws to protect them.

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Originally Posted by SDA

Purely because of popularity. Breeding BPs are in right now. Don't even get me started how many people breed and/or sell these snakes that have no clue what they are doing and even more people buy them having no clue what they are doing.

Sad story... went to an expo this past weekend and as I was walking in some young kid was walking out with two green iguanas in his hands and someone else was walking behind him with a bird cage that they had bought as an enclosure (hint that is a really horrible enclosure for them). I am so glad larger snakes are still not as common as ball pythons. The amount of adult large snakes abandoned is enough to make you depressed.

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And the US government is launching an organized campaign to eradicate wild burmese pythons out of florida claiming they are invasive spieces. These poor snakes were born in florida for many generations now and sense tens of years. Florida is their homeland. Their ancestors did not just walk from Asia to Florida, they were brought in by american citizens. How can the US government still call them and claim that they are invasive species? Are european and african americans not invasive species? Yet those brutal acts of killings of the burmese pythons are widely supported by floridians. Although those snakes did not kill a singel human there. Disgusting!

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Originally Posted by Dutti

And the US government is launching an organized campaign to eradicate wild burmese pythons out of florida claiming they are invasive spieces. These poor snakes were born in florida for many generations now and sense tens of years. Florida is their homeland. Their ancestors did not just walk from Asia to Florida, they were brought in by american citizens. How can the US government still call them and claim that they are invasive species? Are european and african americans not invasive species? Yet those brutal acts of killings of the burmese pythons are widely supported by floridians. Although those snakes did not kill a singel human there. Disgusting!

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They are an invasive species because they did not evolve there. They are destroying native species that lived there long before their 'ancestors' did. Burmese pythons, iguanas, and other reptiles that do not originate from Florida are a real problem, and while I don't agree with culling the animals, there's only so much the government can do. Can't really relate people politics to animals in this.

ANYWAYS, back to the actual discussion: I'm going to my first expo in June and I'm hoping so badly there's old world colubrids for me to drool over. I highly doubt it, since I live far away from any major breeders of that sort, but one can dream!

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Originally Posted by Starscream

They are an invasive species because they did not evolve there. They are destroying native species that lived there long before their 'ancestors' did. Burmese pythons, iguanas, and other reptiles that do not originate from Florida are a real problem, and while I don't agree with culling the animals, there's only so much the government can do. Can't really relate people politics to animals in this.

ANYWAYS, back to the actual discussion: I'm going to my first expo in June and I'm hoping so badly there's old world colubrids for me to drool over. I highly doubt it, since I live far away from any major breeders of that sort, but one can dream!

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You are justifying a mass murder against an animal race. a gorgeous animal that sets on the top of the food chain. Do you know what I would have done if I was living in Florida? As a decent human being who knows that the earth does not belong only to humans, I would certainly have reacted to the brutal murdering of the wild Burmese pythons and other large constrictors in starting a breeding project of Burmese, retics, yellow anacondas and other large constrictors who would fit good in Florida,s environment, just to release the offsprings into the wild in Florida. This should be the answer of every snake loving human being

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Originally Posted by Dutti

You are justifying a mass murder against an animal race. a gorgeous animal that sets on the top of the food chain. Do you know what I would have done if I was living in Florida? As a decent human being who knows that the earth does not belong only to humans, I would certainly have reacted to the brutal murdering of the wild Burmese pythons and other large constrictors in starting a breeding project of Burmese, retics, yellow anacondas and other large constrictors who would fit good in Florida,s environment, just to release the offsprings into the wild in Florida. This should be the answer of every snake loving human being

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You can’t be serious... are you?
As a decent human being I would hope someone would have caught you and alerted the authorities. You can be an animal lover and respect the fact that those snakes are invasive and something needs to be done. Same with European starlings, sparrows, alllll sorts of animals and plants all over the world. They get brought somewhere and destroy the native flora and fauna. Do some research before making awful comments like you did above please.


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Originally Posted by Dutti

You are justifying a mass murder against an animal race. a gorgeous animal that sets on the top of the food chain. Do you know what I would have done if I was living in Florida? As a decent human being who knows that the earth does not belong only to humans, I would certainly have reacted to the brutal murdering of the wild Burmese pythons and other large constrictors in starting a breeding project of Burmese, retics, yellow anacondas and other large constrictors who would fit good in Florida,s environment, just to release the offsprings into the wild in Florida. This should be the answer of every snake loving human being

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snake-loving human beings caused the devastation happening in Florida. if you want to be mad at someone, blame us.

i love snakes, but the Everglades is a protected, delicate and endangered ecosystem with species of plants and animals we're still learning about today. Burmese are quite literally destroying the ecosystem, with no predators, and are killing countless native mammals to the point those animals might not exist there in 20 years. native bobcat are important, too. i want to protect the Everglades and its wildlife so they're still around for the next generation. if that means destroying an invasive species, so be it.

the Everglades > Burmese pythons

The BP explosion has been all over the shows for the last 15 or so years. I remember when I first got into reptiles 20 years ago it was the colubrid craze, everyone was breeding milk and corn snakes like crazy, all the tables were colubrids as far as the eye could see, so many new colors and morph combos.

(doing my best to continue to ignore Dutti's ridiculous comments, it's tough)

That's interesting, I've only been going to the expo only a few years now. I wonder which snake will be the next popular choice lol.

we always have 2-3 tables on dedicated Boa breeders. here's one w/ a Leopard Boa and Hypo Nic:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/APg4NyC.jpg
here's a big breeder. this is the long section of their table. the took up a two corners w/ their display:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/py19Lmf.jpg
i also see lotsa Sand Boa's, Rubber Boa's and Rainbow Boa's at our shows:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/44WDqNc.jpg

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Originally Posted by svtvenom

That's interesting, I've only been going to the expo only a few years now. I wonder which snake will be the next popular choice lol.

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my money is on SD Retics. SD's are in the hands of more keepers now and they're beginning to cross more Dwarf and mainland morphs w/ SD blood. :)

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Originally Posted by Dutti

You are justifying a mass murder against an animal race. a gorgeous animal that sets on the top of the food chain. Do you know what I would have done if I was living in Florida? As a decent human being who knows that the earth does not belong only to humans, I would certainly have reacted to the brutal murdering of the wild Burmese pythons and other large constrictors in starting a breeding project of Burmese, retics, yellow anacondas and other large constrictors who would fit good in Florida,s environment, just to release the offsprings into the wild in Florida. This should be the answer of every snake loving human being

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negged! no thanks. you're hurting the hobby/community when u say stuff like that and that's a really bad plan that would further devastate the 'Glades. Snow Leopards and Siberian Tigers are some apex predators that would do well in my neck of the woods. should they be introduced here in the PacNW? not thanks, not a good idea at all.

Lucky! I want more boas at the show I go to! :( Although it's probably not a good idea because I would end up with another snake lol.

Yeah, be careful!

You only have one now, right?

That won’t last!

Pace yourself though!

Always make sure you can provide what both you need AND what the animal needs! I also think it’s important that you give everyone love and care.

I have 5 tanks and am stopping for the foreseeable future.

For me, time and space are the limitations. I want to make sure I can properly care for everyone and spend time with everyone. Plus I have taken over 1/4 of are finished basement already!

Katie is doing better with all the reptiles. She even watched the geckos eat tonight! That’s a first (she hates bugs). However, she does not help me care for them and clean, feed, etc. So no more for now.

Some people do great with many more animals, not saying 5 tanks is the magic number, it’s different for everyone. For me, right now, at my limit, that’s all.

Don’t tell anyone, but I still think about more sometimes.

Discipline! I must have discipline.

Good luck and be strong, Grasshopper.