Metcalf Reptiles Knowingly Shipped My SD Retics With Mites!!!

So, yeah... I have had this $800.00 pair of 25% Kalatoa SD Retics paid for since clear back in November and have been anxiously waiting for a break in the weather, so they could be shipped. They were finally shipped out from Nebraska yesterday evening and will be on my doorstep in just a few short hours. I should be really happy and excited, shouldn't I? I'm not! I just woke up at 4:00 AM this morning to the following nonchalant message from Aaron Metcalf of Metcalf Reptiles:

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The albino gc has a couple mites before I shipped. I would let both snakes settle in for a day or two then soak them both in room temp water for 12-18 hrs. Only enough water to just cover their backs.

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Real cute, huh?

My reply (with swear words omitted):

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Oh, that's just great dude! Are you kidding me right now!? Did you seriously just knowingly send me snakes with mites!? I am NOT happy! So, just let them "settle in for a day or two" and infest the rest of my animals with mites, huh? That's brilliant!

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I seriously should blow up this kid's cell phone right now at 5:00 AM and let him have it! It is beyond comprehension that there are breeders out there, who are conducting business like this kid, as well as a few others that I have encountered! There are other things about my experience with this breeder, too, which I won't get into right now. I'm sorry, but his honesty in letting me know that I have snakes on the way with mites included at no extra charge definitely does not outweigh the fact that he knowingly shipped these animals out to me with mites! The right thing to do would have been for him to contact me immediately the moment he noticed the mites and postponed shipping until HE made sure they were mite free! Am I right or am I right?

So, anyway... Instead of continuing on with this rant, I need to do some quick thinking and preparation with very limited time and I am open to all of your suggestions! Unfortunately, I don't have a quarantine area setup and I really don't want to get into all of the reasons why I should and all of the reasons why that is way easier said than done. That being said, I have no choice other than to put these soon to be new arrivals in the same rack as my Boas and Ball Pythons when they get here, which is in the same room with my Blood and Short Tail rack. So, I have no choice other than to try and contain whatever mites these snakes may have to their slots in the rack. These guys should be on my doorstep within the next 4 - 5 hours and i'm not going to be able to make it to Petco before they arrive, because I have to be here for the delivery. I have read many times that Pam cooking spray is an effective way to prevent mites from spreading. Is that true? What if I ran to the store and got some Pam and wiped the whole top, bottom, side and rear of both of the slots they'll be in down real good, as well as the outside of their tubs? Should I wipe the inside of their tubs down with it, too? Then after they're delivered I could run to Petco and get mite spray to spray on them? I'm on the Petco website right now and the only reptile mite treatment they seem to carry is Natural Chemistry De Flea Reptile Relief, which can be sprayed directly on the animal and supposedly kills mites on contact. Have any of you ever used this product?

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcos...-reptile-spray

I really don't feel like spending $27.00 for a can of Provent A Mite if there is a cheaper way that is effective and unless there is a local pet store that carries it, it would take a few days to get here anyway if I ordered it online. I realize that mites are a common part of reptile keeping and it's not the end of the world, but i've never had to deal with them and I want to do everything possible to treat these new arrivals as quickly as possible and prevent them from spreading to my other animals. Please advise...

This lady swears by treating mites with Pam cooking spray and claims that it kills them with only one treatment and it was recommended by her vet. She says to spray the snake down completely with Pam and let them sit for 20 minutes then wipe them down with baby shampoo in a warm bath...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDTFkUOyPP0

Based on this video and other things i've read, I feel like this should be effective, but will it also kill any eggs, which could be on the animals and prevent them from hatching?

Wow that does suck. I would be livid. I guess it's a good thing he alerted you to this.

As you probably know, quantine is a must with any new additions. Besides mites, you want to avoid other illnesses coming in also.

I would not put them in my existing rack. Go to a store and get tubs and cheap uth to set them up temporarily in another part of your house. An added expense but a lesson learned.

Always keep pam on hand too.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this but you definitely should have been prepared to qt.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks, L. West. And, yes, I am most definitely livid! I just can't even fathom that someone would just go right ahead and ship animals out to someone KNOWING that they are sending them a box of mites! I will definitely be dealing with Aaron Metcalf later on and letting people know about his business practices!

With regards to quarantine, 3/4 of the animals I currently have were purchased around the same time, so they would have all been sitting in quarantine together anyway. Aside from that, like I said, setting up a quarantine is way easier said than done unless you live in a warm, humid part of the world like Florida. Firstly, it is already costing me a fortune to control ambient room temperatures and humidity in one room of my house for my animals. My house is extremely dry in the winter, so I have to keep my heater vent closed in the snake room and run a space heater as well as a high output humidifier 24/7 all winter long. To do that in two rooms, it would probably run my electric bill up $300.00 - $400.00 a month. I love my animals to death and there isn't much I wouldn't do for them, but that just wouldn't be feasible or sensible in any way. Even if I set up a quarantine in another room and left the heater vents open, my thermostat in my house will never be set above 70 degrees, so how would I be able to keep the animal's cool side temperatures above 75 degrees? As far as humidity, i'm a firm believer of not using substrate for many reasons. I could use it for quarantined animals temporarily to help with humidity, but my house gets so dry in the winter that I think it would still be extremely challenging to keep humidity levels consistent. So, in a nutshell, I feel like unless people are able to properly heat, humidify and dedicate a whole second room to a quarantine, they are going to be running a very high risk of quarantined animals getting RIs and having digestive problems and everything else. So, it's sort of a catch 22 situation... All of the closets in my house are very shallow, so I wouldn't even be able to keep adequate size tubs in them. So, that isn't an option either. If anyone can think of a realistic way for me to setup a quarantine in this dry old house that isn't going to cause health problems to the animals or cost me another couple hundred dollars for another heater and humidifier (in addition to more thermostats) or run my electric bill up another couple hundred dollars per month I would definitely love to hear your ideas...

Wow I am very sorry. That is not cool at all!

i can’t help on the mite front I just got my first snake but geez. What a message to send a customer.

This vid from SBK might help you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwCAuhSVRV4

I think you can pick up a bottle of the spray at TSC

Im of no help except to sympathize with your anger.. I would not accept the snakes period, however that is just me. Im a freak about certain things like any kind of known Germ, Parasite etc.. That is a breeder i would Never do any kind of business with. I dont care how rare something he has is, how cheap or any other factor.
If a breeder had a outbreak (it happens) and he told me I would possibly allow him to treat then send the snake a few weeks after making sure they are all set.
Ive learned not to cause myself the anxiety Id have bringing a infected animal into my home with all my others quarantined or not. I would think about it 24/7 and I just cant have that.
As far as your situation with not having a quarantine I won't comment on, I'm sure you already know how everyone will feel. That to me is the first clue I wasn't ready for another addition to the collection.
Good Luck, hope whatever you decide works out for the best.


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Richard Allen from Reptile Rapture recommends a much easier and less messy way of treating snakes for mites. He recommends spraying the enclosure down with RID and letting it dry and wiping the animal down with Germ X hand sanitizer. I've purchased animals from Richard and i've talked to him (forever) on the phone a couple of times. He is a great guy and I trust him, so that's what i'm going to do. I already have Germ x hand sanitizer on hand, too, because that's what I use after handling my animals. So, i'm going to run and pick up some RID real quick to treat the tubs before they arrive and i'm also going to pick up some Pam just to wipe down the slots in the rack where these guys will be living to hopefully help prevent any mites from escaping. I don't know what more I can do at this point... What do you guys think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHXq3oV_JkA

I wouldn't take in a snake with mites period like I said. They can get on your clothes and transfer.. The breeder should Never have sent it without discussing it with you first. I feel like the guy got his money and he doesn't care. I wouldn't except the snakes and id file a claim for the money back.


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First, breathe. Any time you get a new snake you would be safe in assuming that it has mites until proven otherwise. I always treat my quarantine enclosures the day before the snakes show up.

Second, treat the enclosures or tubs, rack, and paper substrate for the new snakes with the RID spray and ensure it's dry before putting the new snakes into their new homes.

Third, use the RID similarly on the paper substrate and enclosures for your current snakes to help prevent them from getting infested. Do not spray it directly on the snakes and ensure the paper and tubs are dry before putting the snakes back.

Fourth, get a bottle of the Frontline spray from SBK's video posted above and treat the snakes like he does when they come out of the shipping box. If you do this you shouldn't soak the snakes.

Fifth, you have no business purchasing any more snakes until you can set up an effective quarantine area; mites are not the worst thing that can befall a keeper.

Finally read my post #13 in https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...elp-asap/page2

I had amazing luck with the diluted NIX treatment tech (after two months of unsuccessfully treating with PAM following the directions to the letter and retreating I was still getting mite outbreaks.). After just one treatment with NIX the mites have been gone for six years now. Good luck.

Wow sorry to hear you got such a eye opening news talk about poohing on your parade I know how excited you been waiting for your new noodles (So have I to be honest ;) )that is a load of you know what sending animals that knowingly are not one hundred percent, good thing it wasn't me I might forget how to be a lady next time I spoken with said breeder 😲 best wishes only sorry wish I could help more healing hugs

PAM is expensive because it works, products found at pet smart do not, they will not take care of the eggs only the adult stage. Just like you can't cure a RI with a cheap Vicks treatment either.

There are home brew but if you do not know what you are doing you could simply kill the animal so I won't recommend those.

You can also get a can of RID and use it the same way as PAM

Personnally if it were me the animal would be shipped back, and I would get my money back. Between the RI and the regurgitation you have experienced recently with other animals do you really want deal with that too, remember mites can carry diseases, and what if mites are not the only problem.

And for future reference if you acquire animal you should ALWAYS pre-treat for mites while in QT

If it was me, the animals would both be going back. I would refuse shipment, get my money back and not do business with the breeder again. Just my two cents.

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

If it was me, the animals would both be going back. I would refuse shipment, get my money back and not do business with the breeder again. Just my two cents.

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The problem with kicking them back today is that it's Thursday and we're looking at iffy shipping weather over the next few days, so the snakes could end up in transit over the long weekend. Obviously the seller should have never shipped the snakes with mites, but I'm not willing to take the risk of having them die on the return trip.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

The problem with kicking them back today is that it's Thursday and we're looking at iffy shipping weather over the next few days, so the snakes could end up in transit over the long weekend. Obviously the seller should have never shipped the snakes with mites, but I'm not willing to take the risk of having them die on the return trip.

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That's a good point I hadn't thought of. Now I don't know what the heck I would do... but I wouldn't want them in my house...

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Originally Posted by craigafrechette

That's a good point I hadn't thought of. Now I don't know what the heck I would do... but I wouldn't want them in my house...

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It should be returned by tomorrow (Friday) and if it got stuck you can pick up at a FedEx hub on Saturdays.


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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

Richard Allen from Reptile Rapture recommends a much easier and less messy way of treating snakes for mites. He recommends spraying the enclosure down with RID and letting it dry and wiping the animal down with Germ X hand sanitizer. I've purchased animals from Richard and i've talked to him (forever) on the phone a couple of times. He is a great guy and I trust him, so that's what i'm going to do. I already have Germ x hand sanitizer on hand, too, because that's what I use after handling my animals. So, i'm going to run and pick up some RID real quick to treat the tubs before they arrive and i'm also going to pick up some Pam just to wipe down the slots in the rack where these guys will be living to hopefully help prevent any mites from escaping. I don't know what more I can do at this point...

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Richard KNOWS what hes talking about. I drive over an hour to buy my frozen feeders from him in Madison, WI, he runs a top notch collection. Call him and ask for his opinion! Reptile Rapture... Monona, WI

Well, as others have said, mites might be the least of your issues bringing new snakes into your current reptile room.

I'd at least setup a couple of stand-alone tub enclosures on the opposite side of that room with a UTH for hot spot. Nix, Rid, or PAM- treat the enclosures and let dry very very well. You can also use food-grade DE around the enclosure (outside on floor, etc) to kill any mites that crawl. Gloves, and working with that bin last would be good precautions.

Reptile spray by natural chemistry is a good spray to use on snakes, but they should not be soaked and water should not be given for 24 hrs. after treating.

I always treat enclosures for mites when expecting new snakes and have a quarantine setup ready to go. I went through a horrible mite infestation a few years back and don't want to repeat that.

I have my quarantine snake in a tub in my living room with additional overhead heat (CHE set up as a standing lamp). I add damp moss and/or mist as needed to maintain humidity. I had my first snake in this same setup for about a year and never had any issue. I live in a one bedroom apartment in the same area as you.

I think it's totally irresponsible on the breeders part to not have recognised the mite issue prior to shipping them to a customer. Sure, things happen but it's really negligent as well. Any animal that is up for sale consideration should be scrutinized for health and wellness prior. The onus is directly on the breeder and he actually shouldn't expect you to accept the shipment. He should've faxed over a return shipping label with his sincerest apologies. He should also immediately return your money and let you know that it's unacceptable for you to have to treat these snakes. They are still his responsibility for at least 24 to 48 hrs on any reputable breeders health certificate or statement. He needs to make it crystal clear that he will be assuming the responsibility for selling a customer diseased animals.

Jeez! Even worse, he admits to knowing they were infested with mites and shipped anyways. Totally unacceptable and he shouldn't expect you to have to treat the animals at all.

Thanks for all of your concerns and input you guys. I really appreciate it. I just received a damage control phone call from Aaron's brother - Joseph and we had a long talk. He also completely agreed that Aaron made a very poor judgement call by shipping the animals out. Though, that's a no-brainer... He offered to send financial compensation for my troubles, but I told him that wasn't necessary unless these mites are carrying some kind of crazy disease that ends up wiping out my whole collection. THEN we would have some problems...

Anyway, Joseph highly recommended that I take them out of the box and immediately stick them in a tub with just enough water to cover their backs and leave them in there for 12 - 18 hours when they arrive and he swears that will kill the mites. So, I just finished drilling some holes in a couple tubs, so they will be ready for them to soak when they get here (i'm surprised they aren't here yet, actually). Meanwhile, I will go get some RID and I will be spending the day treating every one of my snake's enclosures and both of my racks from top to bottom and I will treat the carpet in my snake room with RID upholstery and bedding spray as well . Yaaay... Once these guys are done soaking I will dry them off then go ahead and wipe them down real good with Germ X and let the poor little guys rest for a few days. I feel pretty confident that everything will be fine. On the bright side, I will be gaining some more good hands on herp care experience in addition to the experience i've already gained from the recent RI and regurgitation issues I had to treat...

In my opinion, refusing the delivery and having these guys returned this time of year is not an option. Although, it is 63 degrees here today, the low for tomorrow is 22 and the low for Norfolk, NB is 11 degrees for tomorrow... Aside from that, these guys have already been sitting in a box since whatever time yesterday. I just wouldn't do that to the animals...

Here are some other thoughts to consider about the whole quarantine subject... Suppose you already have other recent arrivals sitting in quarantine and you get another new arrival (or multiple new arrivals) and it has mites, parasites, IBD or whatever other disease... Whether that new arrival is placed in your primary snake room or with the other quarantined animals there is going to be a possibility that it could spread to other animals either way. So, what's the point? Does it come down to choosing which animals you would prefer to risk having become infected and which ones you do not? I'm pretty sure most people don't have separate rooms throughout their house for quarantining each individual animal in for 3 - 6 months at a time, nor do I think most people limit themselves to only getting one new animal every few months, so it can be quarantined by itself. The only semi-feasible solution I can think of for myself during the winter months would be to quarantine new arrivals on the opposite side of my snake room. But, would that really be accomplishing anything? Just some things to think about...

Guess I am the only one that doesn't feel mites as something to reject a reptile over. Mites happen and even the best breeder can have them and ship them. They are so easy to clear up in quarantine, I would not even worry about it.

Oh and PAM cooking spray is a horrible and harmful means to do anything to a snake. Not only is it bad for you, it is bad for the snake's scales and not even close to a rational approach to curing anything. It would be like huffing lysol to cure your cold.

I really wonder if the people that use Pam cooking spray got confused when they read that they should use Provent-A-Mite-PAM. At least I wish that was the case, cooking spray just seems so wrong.

Another happy Reptile Rapture customer here. :)


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Wow... I just got a Paypal notification and Joseph Metcalf sent me a $50.00 payment "for cleaning supplies" even though I told him any sort of financial reimbursement wouldn't be necessary... Honestly, that was the least they could do for his brother's irresponsibility and all of the trouble I have to go through today, but it's still a nice gesture. So, I have to give credit where it is due...

Aedryan- I'm glad you came to a somewhat happy conclusion to the situation with the breeder.

My thoughts on quarantine are this: It exists to protect your main collection, as much as possible.

As such, you attempt to limit exposure to possible parasites, diseases, etc. by having the new arrivals as far from your existing collection as possible, by having seperate handling / cleaning supplies for the quarantine setup, by wearing gloves and different cloths (that will be washed before being worn again with your main collection). And also, by doing feeding and maintenance on the new snakes last... do your main reptile room then check tubs on the new snakes.

Quarantine lasts for 1 month at my house, although I know others take longer. I try to avoid having new snakes come in at the same time, but if I do happen to have new snakes, say I pick up 2 animals at a show on the same day, then they all go to the quarantine room together.

In your case, you have to look at the possibility of risk and financial cost should vet care be needed. If your main reptile room has more snakes...say 10, and your quarantine room already has 2, then it is easier to treat illness and cheaper, plus less "risk" to put the new arrival in the quarantine room. It should also be noted that in a traditional quarantine setup, you do minimal enclosures, minimal furnishings (hides and water bowl on paper towels) all to make it easier to spot mites, irregular poo, etc. and to treat / disinfect everything if needed. If the setups in your main reptile room are more complex, larger, or contain bio-active setups, those cannot be easily cleaned or checked for issues (like mites).

My setup is pretty simple... I live in a split level house, so the reptile room is on on the bottom floor and my quarantine space is on the top floor. For my setup, I use stand-alone tubs that sit on a desk. Each has 2 RBI hides, a water bowl, and paper towels as substrate. For heating, I use an ultratherm heat mat strip (4" x 4' long) capable of heating 2 tubs at one time. I also have lamp stands and CHE fixtures to hang over the tubs for ambient heat if needed...Although usually I get my animals in the spring or summer and I won't need a CHE to raise ambient temps. I have 12 snakes, 6 geckos, a BTS, and some frogs in my reptile room, so in my case it makes a lot more sense not to risk the whole collection.

It's horrible that he would knowingly send them out with mites. At least he warned you, I guess. Still really crappy thing to do though. I've gotten in a snake before that looked clean and was fine. About 30 days later mites showed up which to me says the breeder knew they had mites, pre-cleaned/soaked/oiled the snake going out so none would show when it arrived. Then suddenly once the eggs hatch they were everywhere. Some breeders try to be sneaky and it sucks. I know mites can sometimes happen from a random hitchhiker from a show or shop but a breeder/keeper that knows they have mites and continues to sell is irresponsible. Sure it's a pain to treat an entire collection but it can be done and why someone wouldn't go to the trouble to get them wiped out is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

PAM is expensive because it works,

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Exactly and it is the only mite treatment I use and it works every time.
Always pre-treat QT enclosures and expect the worst.

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

Suppose you already have other recent arrivals sitting in quarantine and you get another new arrival (or multiple new arrivals) and it has mites, parasites, IBD or whatever other disease... Whether that new arrival is placed in your primary snake room or with the other quarantined animals there is going to be a possibility that it could spread to other animals either way. So, what's the point?

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If an animal is in QT and a new arrival comes in, then the QT timer re-starts and the one that was already in QT gets to stay in QT for the additional time until both animals have cleared.
You don't need a separate fully heated room or to live in FL to property QT. You simply need an appropriate set up just like any cage in any house that is away from your current collection. Make sure to use separate tools as well (extra pair of feeding tongs, etc) and always deal with the QT animal last/after doing anything in your normal collection.

Thanks once again to all of you for your care and concern. I really appreciate all of you here at the forum! :) So, these guys showed up today and other than knowing they have mites they seem to be perfectly vibrant and healthy. And, OMG! They are absolutely stunningly beautiful! I'm already in love with 13 other snakes, but just... WOW! I have them all settled in for their looooong soak and i'm getting ready to start treating my entire snake room from top to bottom and hoping for the best. I'll keep you guys posted...

Thanks again!

So here I sit outside of my FedEx hub, on my way in to pick up... you guessed it! A snake from Metcalf. Here’s hoping, since I didn’t get a mite email. I do have quarantine and pretreat. I just hope my new noodle is clean. Crap!!!!

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Originally Posted by DLena

So here I sit outside of my FedEx hub, on my way in to pick up... you guessed it! A snake from Metcalf. Here’s hoping, since I didn’t get a mite email. I do have quarantine and pretreat. I just hope my new noodle is clean. Crap!!!!

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Oh jeeez... I wish you the best! I would definitely be extra careful and cautious for sure! When I was talking to Joseph on the phone he told me how long it had been since they were able to ship any snakes out, because of the weather and how they shipped a ton of them out yesterday. I was wondering how many other people will be receiving mites on their doorsteps today... What did you get from them, by the way?

0.1 25% Kalatoa GC het purple

Sterilite bin is P-A-M’d. My girl is Reptile Spray’d. I saw no evidence of mites on the bag or on the paper towel I used to wipe her down. She’s staying in my bedroom for the next few months. I totally hope I dodged a bullet. But now I feel all itchy; I’m sure it’s psychsomatic. Keep your new ones separate if at all possible. If you absolutely can’t, then treat everyone... but you have quite the herd!

Yes... Everyone and everything in my snake room is getting thoroughly treated as we speak! One other less than professional thing about the way mine were shipped is they were placed in the same bag. Any time i've ever received more than one snake they were always shipped in separate bags. Not that being in separate bags would have likely prevented the other one from getting mites, but it definitely struck me as even more careless, considering he KNEW the other one had mites...

wow unbelievable! he blatantly (brazenly?) sent u a snake w/ mites?! (Edit: Eeewwwww!! just saw they were shipped in the same bag too; might as well consider both of them have it now. :( )

i dealt w/ mites twice - my 1st BP and 2ndly my BEL unicorn. soak, wipe off, Reptile Spray on the snakes, PAM on enclosures, use as directed, decor, etc. keep them on white paper, QT, QT and QT! my skin still crawls thinking about mites.

are u still gonna write an alert or thread about this breeder/seller and your experience over at the Fauna BOI? i think everyone did a good job of helping out here but it would also be helpful to alert the larger reptile community (esp. a forum for buying and selling). i think the BOI is accountability and it either helps whips breeders and sellers into shape and/or weeds out the baddies.

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

Here are some other thoughts to consider about the whole quarantine subject... Suppose you already have other recent arrivals sitting in quarantine and you get another new arrival (or multiple new arrivals) and it has mites, parasites, IBD or whatever other disease... Whether that new arrival is placed in your primary snake room or with the other quarantined animals there is going to be a possibility that it could spread to other animals either way. So, what's the point? Does it come down to choosing which animals you would prefer to risk having become infected and which ones you do not? I'm pretty sure most people don't have separate rooms throughout their house for quarantining each individual animal in for 3 - 6 months at a time, nor do I think most people limit themselves to only getting one new animal every few months, so it can be quarantined by itself. The only semi-feasible solution I can think of for myself during the winter months would be to quarantine new arrivals on the opposite side of my snake room. But, would that really be accomplishing anything? Just some things to think about...

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i think Art Gecko did a fantastic job in post #27. essentially protect the colony and QT resets if any new animals are introduced.

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Originally Posted by SDA

Guess I am the only one that doesn't feel mites as something to reject a reptile over. Mites happen and even the best breeder can have them and ship them. They are so easy to clear up in quarantine, I would not even worry about it.

Oh and PAM cooking spray is a horrible and harmful means to do anything to a snake. Not only is it bad for you, it is bad for the snake's scales and not even close to a rational approach to curing anything. It would be like huffing lysol to cure your cold.

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maybe for a small collection but i still believe it's easier said than done. it can take just one vector, one misstep in treatment or QT to have an outbreak. i've only dealt w/ mites twice but still pre-treat and QT all new arrivals, preemptively PAM once in awhile still, "treat" substrate, etc.

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

Thanks once again to all of you for your care and concern. I really appreciate all of you here at the forum! :) So, these guys showed up today and other than knowing they have mites they seem to be perfectly vibrant and healthy. And, OMG! They are absolutely stunningly beautiful! I'm already in love with 13 other snakes, but just... WOW! I have them all settled in for their looooong soak and i'm getting ready to start treating my entire snake room from top to bottom and hoping for the best. I'll keep you guys posted...

Thanks again!

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i cant' wait to see the pix!

good luck! keep us updated.

Is it recommended to occasionally spray cages with PAM as a preventative?? Just curious if there is any benefit??

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Originally Posted by L.West

Is it recommended to occasionally spray cages with PAM as a preventative?? Just curious if there is any benefit??

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I would not, permethrin poisoning does cause neuro damage in snakes so why take the risk if it's not needed?

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Originally Posted by L.West

Is it recommended to occasionally spray cages with PAM as a preventative?? Just curious if there is any benefit??

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now and then when doing deep cleans, air out before reintroducing any animals. something i read from Brian Gundy.

Edit: i also freeze my substrate for at least 72hours when it's brought home. :redface:

So... I spent all day and all night on Thursday washing, drying, treating then drying again every one of my snake's tubs and my racks. It literally took until 8:00 am the next morning, because it takes so long for the RID to dry once it's sprayed on. I also substituted newspaper in all enclosures with treated paper towels temporarily, so I can keep a close eye out for any signs of mites. So far, so good! I haven't seen any trace of mites anywhere! Since I don't use substrate I will be placing all animals into freshly treated tubs as needed and using paper towels for at least a month. I've been wanting to switch to butcher's paper or something anyway, because I don't like how newspaper tends to stain my animal's undersides and newpaper looks shabby, anyway. So, this will give me time to find a cheap source. Honestly, I wish I could just keep using paper towels, but that would get really expensive with so many animals, unfortunately...

I soaked the new arrivals in water for about 14 hours, dried them off, rubbed them down with Germ X hand sanitizer from head to tail and placed them in their new treated homes and they are doing great! I have had them out a couple times each and they are sweet as can be so far and beautiful beyond words! There is no question about who the new king and queen of my snake room are! lol I still can't get over how tiny (but healthy) these guys are for being almost a year old! The female actually shed last night, so she will be being moved into a freshly treated tub as soon as the RID finishes drying shortly and her old skin has been discarded outside. I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to rub her right back down with Germ X again since she shed? What do you guys think?

Hi Aedryan, I bought a big roll of brown “builders paper” after learning from J Kobylka they newspaper ink can sometimes stain white snakes a little. I got a huge roll of 36” wide plain brown builders paper at hone depot for cheap. Definitely used nothing but plain paper when my snake had mites a couple years ago. Changed the paper daily and cleaned out the enclosure until I knew they were gone for good.

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

Hi Aedryan, I bought a big roll of brown “builders paper” after learning from J Kobylka they newspaper ink can sometimes stain white snakes a little. I got a huge roll of 36” wide plain brown builders paper at hone depot for cheap. Definitely used nothing but plain paper when my snake had mites a couple years ago. Changed the paper daily and cleaned out the enclosure until I knew they were gone for good.

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I'm pretty sure that's the same exact stuff that my local breeder friend uses. That is probably what i'll end up using if I can't find something feasible that is white. I would prefer white only because it would make a much better backdrop for taking quick pics of my snakes in their tubs, etc. That's one of the reasons why I don't post more photos and why I haven't begun making videos for my Youtube channel yet. Newspaper just looks so shabby and amateur-ish and the ink definitely stains their bellys. I like paper towels a lot, because it is absorbent and it provides a little cushioning for the animals. It doesn't stay put for my larger snakes, though and using the good Bounty stuff i'm using right now would get really expensive...

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

So, yeah... I have had this $800.00 pair of 25% Kalatoa SD Retics paid for since clear back in November and have been anxiously waiting for a break in the weather, so they could be shipped. They were finally shipped out from Nebraska yesterday evening and will be on my doorstep in just a few short hours. I should be really happy and excited, shouldn't I? I'm not! I just woke up at 4:00 AM this morning to the following nonchalant message from Aaron Metcalf of Metcalf Reptiles:



Real cute, huh?

My reply (with swear words omitted):



I seriously should blow up this kid's cell phone right now at 5:00 AM and let him have it! It is beyond comprehension that there are breeders out there, who are conducting business like this kid, as well as a few others that I have encountered! There are other things about my experience with this breeder, too, which I won't get into right now. I'm sorry, but his honesty in letting me know that I have snakes on the way with mites included at no extra charge definitely does not outweigh the fact that he knowingly shipped these animals out to me with mites! The right thing to do would have been for him to contact me immediately the moment he noticed the mites and postponed shipping until HE made sure they were mite free! Am I right or am I right?

So, anyway... Instead of continuing on with this rant, I need to do some quick thinking and preparation with very limited time and I am open to all of your suggestions! Unfortunately, I don't have a quarantine area setup and I really don't want to get into all of the reasons why I should and all of the reasons why that is way easier said than done. That being said, I have no choice other than to put these soon to be new arrivals in the same rack as my Boas and Ball Pythons when they get here, which is in the same room with my Blood and Short Tail rack. So, I have no choice other than to try and contain whatever mites these snakes may have to their slots in the rack. These guys should be on my doorstep within the next 4 - 5 hours and i'm not going to be able to make it to Petco before they arrive, because I have to be here for the delivery. I have read many times that Pam cooking spray is an effective way to prevent mites from spreading. Is that true? What if I ran to the store and got some Pam and wiped the whole top, bottom, side and rear of both of the slots they'll be in down real good, as well as the outside of their tubs? Should I wipe the inside of their tubs down with it, too? Then after they're delivered I could run to Petco and get mite spray to spray on them? I'm on the Petco website right now and the only reptile mite treatment they seem to carry is Natural Chemistry De Flea Reptile Relief, which can be sprayed directly on the animal and supposedly kills mites on contact. Have any of you ever used this product?

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petcos...-reptile-spray

I really don't feel like spending $27.00 for a can of Provent A Mite if there is a cheaper way that is effective and unless there is a local pet store that carries it, it would take a few days to get here anyway if I ordered it online. I realize that mites are a common part of reptile keeping and it's not the end of the world, but i've never had to deal with them and I want to do everything possible to treat these new arrivals as quickly as possible and prevent them from spreading to my other animals. Please advise...

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That is freakin epic. If someone knowingly sent me a snake with mites, i would come unglued. There would be some serious shaming and stuff on all the reptile boards i am members of and on FaunaClassifieds. There is no excuse whatsoever to knowingly send snakes with mites. My advice is be sure to wipe down the outside and top rim and bottom rim of the glass tank as well as the table it is on. That way if the mites do escape the cage, they will not make it past the triple PAM barrier of the glass tank rims and table.

I got mites once. They only got on Luna which was my fault as her cage was the only one i didnt wipe down with PAM on the outside. Luckily no one else got them and i got rid of them from Luna with 2 months of PAM treatment. I think i picked up a hitchhiker from a reptile shop probably as snake mites are not native to this place. Anyways, i would treat for at least 2 months. Mite eggs can last a very long time.

And PAM works awesome. I picked it up locally from Bean Farm as i live by them but yeah, its kind of spendy. I picked up 3 cans of the stuff.

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Originally Posted by piedlover79

I had amazing luck with the diluted NIX treatment tech (after two months of unsuccessfully treating with PAM following the directions to the letter and retreating I was still getting mite outbreaks.). After just one treatment with NIX the mites have been gone for six years now. Good luck.

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Pam and Nix have the same active ingredient, Permethrin. So not sure how Pam didnt work but Nix did. Not sure if Nix is residual though. Thats the reason i like Pam is the stuff will stay active for 2+ months once applied and dried. I wipe down the outside of my cage stacks every 6 months as a preventative in case i bring home an unwanted guest. Just spray it on a rag in the garage and then wipe down the outside of the cages. No smell or mess.

I think i'm going to start using diluted NIX once every month or two for preventative maintenance...

A gallon of diluted Nix can be made for about $20.00 less than a can of Provent A Mite and it can even be sprayed directly on the snakes where Provent A Mite can't...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUqomMI_FK4

Thank you for sharing such a well made How To for this.
Now I just have to bribe my son to go to the store for me, or drive to a store about an hour away.
I’m a teacher and buying this could start a full-fledged panic in the district. :rofl:

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Originally Posted by DLena

Thank you for sharing such a well made How To for this.
Now I just have to bribe my son to go to the store for me, or drive to a store about an hour away.
I’m a teacher and buying this could start a full-fledged panic in the district. :rofl:

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LOL! Yeah... I wasn't exactly holding my head up high when I walked up to the counter with 3 cans of RID the other day!!! lol But, seriously, though... After MUCH research, diluted Nix seems to be the quickest, easiest and cheapest method of preventing and treating mites. That is the method I will be using from now on. I don't know what the shelf life is, though. So, i'm only going to mix up a couple spray bottles of it at a time as needed instead of a whole gallon...

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

I think i'm going to start using diluted NIX once every month or two for preventative maintenance...

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There is no need for preventive maintenance and exposing your snakes to chemicals on a regular basis is not that great of an idea.

If you practice proper quarantine, pre-treat incoming animals, there is no need for that, I have been keeping large amount of snakes for 12 years and never had any mites, nor do I treat preventive, only new additions get treated while in QT and only display cases and table cloth that I use when I vend get treated as well.

Until this, I have never had mites, either. But, now i'm feeling a little paranoid. I usually go to reptile expos once a month and sometimes 2 - 3 times a month. Not to vend (yet), but I have been concerned about the possibility of picking up hitchhiker mites just from walking around there and bringing them home. You don't think it would be wise to at least wipe all of my tubs and racks down inside and out with diluted Nix once a month or so?

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

Until this, I have never had mites, either. But, now i'm feeling a little paranoid. I usually go to reptile expos once a month and sometimes 2 - 3 times a month. Not to vend (yet), but I have been concerned about the possibility of picking up hitchhiker mites just from walking around there and bringing them home. You don't think it would be wise to at least wipe all of my tubs and racks down inside and out with diluted Nix once a month or so?

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I go to reptile expo as a visitor and a vendor all the time too, and no I do not treat my animals and do not expose them to necessary pesticide and I am one of the most paranoid person when it comes to mite.

Again good quarantine, stripping down when coming back from a show, throwing the cloth immediately in the wash, and taking a shower and washing hairs will do the trick.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

and taking a shower and showing hairs will do the trick.

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Deborah, your phone has a strange sense of humor..:rofl:


Aedryan, I'm sorry you had to go through this. That is absolutely NOT cool.

While mites are always a possibility, what makes this especially bad is that the seller noticed the mites and decided to send the animal anyway.
Such blatant disregard for the new owners animals health (not to mention the trouble to go through) is simply unacceptable. That seller would be off the table for me, forever.

The $50 wouldn't make me feel ANY better, as a matter of fact, I find that rather offending. I have my heart and soul in these animals, not to mention quite some money. The $50 is supposed to make that all cool?? I feel that is their way of buying you out of posting about the experience on certain venues. Again, mites happen, but noticing them and sending them to the new owner anyway, and a flippant email on top of it. Just no.

Its a moot point now, but quarantine is so important. Perhaps for the future you could set something up. I like to call my "special tub" the quarantine/sick tub. I have never had to use it as a sick tub, but when you have a sick animal, its always best to separate them from the others. If your house has issues with heat and humidity, it could be something simple as a plastic tub that has a locking lid, taller then what we usually use. You can cut a round hole into that lid and cover it with hardware cloth that you can fasten down (lid high enough that the snake can't reach that part). You can also cut a couple of ventilation holes, just enough for some air exchange but not so much you loose heat and humidity. Those tubs are often on sale and can be had for fairly cheap. Since a under-tank heater won't be able to heat the ambient, you can use a small wattage heat bulb, It will bring the temps up in the tub. You can also have a uth on one end, just a small one. You can fasten that on the tub and just leave it there for future use. Get one of those jumpstart thermostats to control it, if you don't have a "extra" one laying around. Then "dial it all in" until you know exactly what wattage to use on the heat lamp and get the UTH just right (for future reference). Let it run for a day or two and then turn it off, use the tub to put the light fixture and thermostat in and put it away until you need it. You can also scan craigslist and local "sell and trade" sites. They often have 10 gallon tanks for cheap, some even come with heat lights and other extras, for really cheap. Then you just have to sanitize it. You can just line the back and sides (and most of the top) with styrofoam and it will make a nice little "extra space" you can keep in your house away from the other snakes.

As to what to do if you have more then one snake coming in during quarantine. Well, just time it right. Give it at least 2 month in between new animals. Waiting that long for an extra animal is more then worth it for the peace of mind.

I'm not telling you what to do or how to do it, just some ideas how you could accomplish it for fairly cheap and have it work in your house. For humidity, you can simply use a coco substrate if the snake is in quarantine but not sick. For a sick snake (or confirmed mites) I would use paper towels and keep the water bowel under the light and mist part of the cage often.

As to the "mite" products. Nix, Provent a mite, frontline, ALL that stuff is simply diluted permethrin. And that stuff is not something you want to accidentally use wrong or over use. All it takes is to buy a product that has a higher percentage of it, and then use those "online tips" for dilution, and you can have catastrophic results.

I make my own "fly spray" for horses. I have perfected it over years (quite a few bug fighting ingredients) and have had many people ask me for my recipe, because it works so well. But during my research I've learned just HOW dangerous permethrin or pyrethrin can be.

If you dilute NIX down enough to make it "safe" to be sprayed on a snake, well, then its so weak that you may not kill many mites. Or you could accidentally spray more of it on the snake then you intended because the spray bottle sprays more of a "spray" then "mist". So much room for error, it would make me nervous.

What I like about the Provent a Mite is that it is the correct dilution and the mist is so fine that a couple of sprays make it settle in all the nooks and crannys, without having to OVER use the product.

Please be careful going all out in the war with the mites.

I don't believe in "prevent treating". That should only be done with NEW animals or if a outbreak is suspected. Neurological damage can quickly occur, even with the "safest" dilution, if the application is heavier then usual. Remember, just letting it dry doesn't mean that there wasn't to much to begin with.

I have found Provent a Mite to be the safest method, IF used correctly. Can other things work quicker? Sure, you can just spray heavier, or use a different dilution. I find that sort of like "russian roulette" with my animals health.

Nix, Permethrin, etc CAN be used safely, but people should always understand that more isn't always better, and I would never use permethrin directly on the snake, even diluted. Don't spray to heavily. Unless you have a fine mist that gets all over with a couple bursts, just spray it and then wipe it all around, so that you have a even but THIN layer, before letting it dry..

Hope all stays well, seems you've had your share of "bad stuff" happening. They say it comes in "three's". Has it been three things yet ?? ;)

Good luck with everything.