Ball python live feeding

Hello,
Tomorrow is the first feeding day after a week of acclimating. I am going to feed live for few feedings, but question came up on my mind. I saw that I have to leave the mouse/rat for 15~20 minutes and watch what happens. The feeder size is going to be at fuzzy rat/small mouse. Probably feeding mouse since he was on mouse before. What do you guys do if the snake has not eaten prey after 15~20 minutes? Taking the prey out was one of the step I saw but do you guys just keep the prey in separate tub and feed the same prey after a week? I don't have any food, bedding or enclosure for the mouse/rat. I know it did not happen yet but it could happen and I think it is better to know before hand so I can prepare for it? I know I can dispose F/T but for live, I have no idea what to do.

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Originally Posted by gusanr14

Hello,
Tomorrow is the first feeding day after a week of acclimating. I am going to feed live for few feedings, but question came up on my mind. I saw that I have to leave the mouse/rat for 15~20 minutes and watch what happens. The feeder size is going to be at fuzzy rat/small mouse. Probably feeding mouse since he was on mouse before. What do you guys do if the snake has not eaten prey after 15~20 minutes? Taking the prey out was one of the step I saw but do you guys just keep the prey in separate tub and feed the same prey after a week? I don't have any food, bedding or enclosure for the mouse/rat. I know it did not happen yet but it could happen and I think it is better to know before hand so I can prepare for it? I know I can dispose F/T but for live, I have no idea what to do.

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First feeding.. Should of put this under his Progression thread so you have a Timeline of the progress, questions and answers you got to look back on. Remember I explained that last week. You wont be able to find the 135 threads you start everyday if you want ro review my man.
Anyways, a lot of us have a 10 gal tank laying around or even breed Rats/Mice so we can keep them until our snakes feed. If you have a tank laying around all you need is a little dog food or something for a couple days and water in a small dish. It will last a week like that. The smell of a mouse is terrible though so be prepared for that stink.
PS : don't touch that mouse then try and put your hand in the snake enclosure.


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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

First feeding.. Should of put this under his Progression thread so you have a Timeline of the progress, questions and answers you got to look back on. Remember I explained that last week. You wont be able to find the 135 threads you start everyday if you want ro review my man.
Anyways, a lot of us have a 10 gal tank laying around or even breed Rats/Mice so we can keep them until our snakes feed. If you have a tank laying around all you need is a little dog food or something for a couple days and water in a small dish. It will last a week like that. The smell of a mouse is terrible though so be prepared for that stink.
PS : don't touch that mouse then try and put your hand in the snake enclosure.


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Yea, so I see some people suggest to try 15~20 mintues and if not eaten, try again an hour later? or is it just one chance of 15~20 minutes then just try week later?

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Originally Posted by gusanr14

Yea, so I see some people suggest to try 15~20 mintues and if not eaten, try again an hour later? or is it just one chance of 15~20 minutes then just try week later?

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Yeah wait a week if he doesn't take it. Make sure you try at night and be quiet. Sit still etc..


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I mean, if they're healthy, they should strike at the mouse in less than a minute, but if they haven't for 10+ mins, I usually take them out and keep the mouse till next week.

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

Yeah wait a week if he doesn't take it. Make sure you try at night and be quiet. Sit still etc..


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Alright will do! Can ball pythons get stressed by being with a rodent? I am guessing since 15~20 minutes are suggested, they can get stress if left with prey longer?

My beep doesn't even let the mouse's feet hit the floor of his viv...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by krampvs

My beep doesn't even let the mouse's feet hit the floor of his viv...:rolleyes:

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Yeah, the average lifespan of a live rat in a ball python enclosure is about 6 seconds. Sometimes, the rat barely gets to walk a few steps, lol. Seriously, if the snake doesn't eat the live rodent within 2 minutes, it is not going to happen. I would never wait 15-20 minutes, snakes are not going to wait that long to take an opportunity for a live meal. They are going to kill and eat immediately, or ignore it.

When I started feeding live I left rodents in for 15 minutes. One time I had a rodent that was too big for the snake and took a couple bites out of the snake before I checked on it. Now I only wait five minutes and use rodents that are much smaller compared to the size of the snake, so small to medium rats for adult ball pythons. Feeding rat crawlers is harmless, doesn't matter what percentage of body weight they are, you can go up to 10% of the body weight of the snake. Mice are pretty harmless too.

The best way to use up extra rodents is to have multiple snakes, if one doesn't eat then try to feed it to others. The more snakes you have the easier it is. I feed about 50 rodents per week, all live from my rat and mouse racks. I usually pop in a live rodent in each tub, wait five minutes, then go back to the beginning and if they haven't eaten it I'll move it to another tub for a second round. When I check the tubs I mark the ones that have eaten and are aggressively looking for a second rat, then if I find uneaten rats I move them to those tubs. With just one snake it's a bit tough, especially if you have a live rat pup that won't survive without it's mother. For mice you can set up another tank and keep it alive, bring it back to the pet store or breeder or find another snake person to take it off your hands. For rat pups you can either euthanize with CO2 or find a rat breeder with nursing mothers to take the pup. You can also set up a chicken egg incubator and keep it alive for a few days at 99F, that's what I did for the short term when I started out, works pretty good.


As far as mice smelling bad - it's really only the males that smell bad. And when you get mice from the pet stores they usually throw in males and females all in the same tub. The males end up fighting and release a 'musk' scent and makes all the mice really stink. See if you can ask for a female mouse instead. When I'm breeding mice I'll feed off all males in tubs of babies as soon as I can tell the males from the females. You never really want to put two mature males in the same enclosure, even without females around they still fight really bad, sometimes to the death. Females will never fight, and one male smells worse than a whole rack of females.

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Originally Posted by gusanr14

Alright will do! Can ball pythons get stressed by being with a rodent? I am guessing since 15~20 minutes are suggested, they can get stress if left with prey longer?

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Idk how much it stresses them but i know if they dont want to eat they dont want the mouse in there. My 6 month old takes a while to eat. When she first came to me she was really hungry. She ate twice a week small prey.. Then after 2 months she was caught up to a healthy weight and now doesn't run out of the hide so fast to grab it.. She parks her head in the doorway and the rat can go by four or five times within 15 minutes until she finally decides to grab it. I sit there the whole time to step in if I needed to. Its not good if the prey goes into the hide with the snake. For 1 if the prey lasts long enough to go into the hide with the snake then the snake doesn't want it and for 2 they can nibble on the snake.


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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

Idk how much it stresses them but i know if they dont want to eat they dont want the mouse in there. My 6 month old takes a while to eat. When she first came to me she was really hungry. She ate twice a week small prey.. Then after 2 months she was caught up to a healthy weight and now doesn't run out of the hide so fast to grab it.. She parks her head in the doorway and the rat can go by four or five times within 15 minutes until she finally decides to grab it. I sit there the whole time to step in if I needed to. Its not good if the prey goes into the hide with the snake. For 1 if the prey lasts long enough to go into the hide with the snake then the snake doesn't want it and for 2 they can nibble on the snake.


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well,
feeding didn't go well..
So I went to the store and got rat pup since they said he fed on rat pup live. I compared the size and it was about the same size as my snake's thickest body. eyes still closed and didn't walk well.
Anyways, I just put the rat in the tub and I was watching. Snake seemed interested and was flicking tongue and was moving towards the rat. And that was it. He went above the rat and rat was just sitting there. He kept moving around and kept checking the rat but did not eat at the end. Like you mentioned, rat went into hide with the snake so I took the rat out. I thought he would eat since he seemed interested but rather, he was freaking out when rat body touched his face. Nothing wrong with husbandry, but I did take him out once few days ago because I thought something was wrong with his mouth. Could that be a reason? Also, the shop fed him in the separate tub, could this be a reason too?
Well, he seems healthy but it was kind of disappointment when he did not eat it lol.

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Originally Posted by gusanr14

well,
feeding didn't go well..
So I went to the store and got rat pup since they said he fed on rat pup live. I compared the size and it was about the same size as my snake's thickest body. eyes still closed and didn't walk well.
Anyways, I just put the rat in the tub and I was watching. Snake seemed interested and was flicking tongue and was moving towards the rat. And that was it. He went above the rat and rat was just sitting there. He kept moving around and kept checking the rat but did not eat at the end. Like you mentioned, rat went into hide with the snake so I took the rat out. I thought he would eat since he seemed interested but rather, he was freaking out when rat body touched his face. Nothing wrong with husbandry, but I did take him out once few days ago because I thought something was wrong with his mouth. Could that be a reason? Also, the shop fed him in the separate tub, could this be a reason too?
Well, he seems healthy but it was kind of disappointment when he did not eat it lol.

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No its not because you took him out the other day and its not because they fed him in a separate tub.. Your husbandry is good so its because he isn't ready thats all. No big deal trust me. Did you close the tub once you put the Rat in? If not he wont eat most likely. They dont like being bothered or feeling exposed when they are going to eat because their vulnerable.
The rat wont make it long because its eyes are still closed.. You also didn't do as i said and wait until Night Time. I was trying to give you a perfect 1st feeding thats why I also told you a mouse. The mouse would've lasted a week at your house. Not a rat that needs to feed on its mother still.

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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

No its not because you took him out the other day and its not because they fed him in a separate tub.. Your husbandry is good so its because he isn't ready thats all. No big deal trust me. Did you close the tub once you put the Rat in? If not he wont eat most likely. They dont like being bothered or feeling exposed when they are going to eat because their vulnerable.
The rat wont make it long because its eyes are still closed.. You also didn't do as i said and wait until Night Time. I was trying to give you a perfect 1st feeding thats why I also told you a mouse. The mouse would've lasted a week at your house. Not a rat that needs to feed on its mother still.

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yea, I was going to get a mouse but when I went there, they told me he ate rat pup so I thought if he was already on rat, it would be better to just feed that. And the night time thing I was going to say but forgot, I won't have nights available for few days that is why I just tried. I did make it dark as possible with curtains and lights off. But I did not close the lid since I was just trying to film the first feeding. I guess that part could have gone wrong. I didn't stand right next to it though, I set up a camera by itself and I was watching from some distance away. I will just leave him alone for another week. Now I can fix some things I could have done wrong.

edit- do you still recommend me to feed mouse? even though he was on rat before?

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Originally Posted by gusanr14

yea, I was going to get a mouse but when I went there, they told me he ate rat pup so I thought if he was already on rat, it would be better to just feed that. And the night time thing I was going to say but forgot, I won't have nights available for few days that is why I just tried. I did make it dark as possible with curtains and lights off. But I did not close the lid since I was just trying to film the first feeding. I guess that part could have gone wrong. I didn't stand right next to it though, I set up a camera by itself and I was watching from some distance away. I will just leave him alone for another week. Now I can fix some things I could have done wrong.

edit- do you still recommend me to feed mouse? even though he was on rat before?

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.. Idk if he was on Rat pups or not.. Who knows.. But the filming with the lid off is not doing what was best for a first feeding. Common sense. Also i told you a mouse would be best because you could of kept it if he didn't feed. What will you do now with a Rat that needs its mother to live? I dont like things Dying like that for no reason. I breed Rodents for food and have Pet Norway rats so I make sure all life has reason... I understand "you thought" the best was to give him what they told you he fed on but I already new this was going to happen which is why I suggested a mouse that could've lived with you until you fed it off. It gets hard spending a lot of time giving people help from your experiences when they just do something else anyway bro.


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If he is peaking his head out tonight then try to feed it for 5 min... If not bring that Rat back tomorrow. Better than it being cold and dying.


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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

If he is peaking his head out tonight then try to feed it for 5 min... If not bring that Rat back tomorrow. Better than it being cold and dying.


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I asked them how to keep baby rat alive. I bought a small tub for the rat pup with syringe thing and some formula food that they suggested. I am going to try hard to keep rat pup alive since I don't it to just die by itself.

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Originally Posted by gusanr14

I asked them how to keep baby rat alive. I bought a small tub for the rat pup with syringe thing and some formula food that they suggested. I am going to try hard to keep rat pup alive since I don't it to just die by itself.

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Ohh, well that was a good idea.. But understand I was giving you a easy option with the mouse. Im not trying to give you a hard time or be a Know it all but ive been giving you the best options for what i think is best in your current situation. Lets get the snake eating with you for the first time and then worry about what he eats. You have had a lot of concerns so im trying to get things so your content as well as the snake hahahaha


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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

Ohh, well that was a good idea.. But understand I was giving you a easy option with the mouse. Im not trying to give you a hard time or be a Know it all but ive been giving you the best options for what i think is best in your current situation. Lets get the snake eating with you for the first time and then worry about what he eats. You have had a lot of concerns so im trying to get things so your content as well as the snake hahahaha


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yea, so the mouse option, is there any other advantages other than it can survive easier till next feeding? I also heard like downsizing the prey item helps?

So next time, I will feed it when the sun goes down. Put the prey into the tub and close lid and don't bother but monitor from long distance.

Like you mentioned previously, who knows if he was on rat or mice, if I end up having to get another prey for next feeding, should I go with small adult mouse then? or hopper for smaller meal?

-edit- so feeding night time makes sense because they are nocturnal but is it still going to work if room lights are still on? he is in my room so turning off could be hard in the evening unless I am going to sleep.

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Originally Posted by gusanr14

yea, so the mouse option, is there any other advantages other than it can survive easier till next feeding? I also heard like downsizing the prey item helps?

So next time, I will feed it when the sun goes down. Put the prey into the tub and close lid and don't bother but monitor from long distance.

Like you mentioned previously, who knows if he was on rat or mice, if I end up having to get another prey for next feeding, should I go with small adult mouse then? or hopper for smaller meal?

-edit- so feeding night time makes sense because they are nocturnal but is it still going to work if room lights are still on? he is in my room so turning off could be hard in the evening unless I am going to sleep.

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The rat you have is a ok size, dont go smaller on that.. If its a mouse, you dont need a very small one, they are already small so just a normal size mouse if you go that route. As far as the mouse and advantages..they like mice better, this is why its sometimes a selling point for some stores etc.. Is they say they are feeding rats that would be good because it saves the buyer from having to try and switch them over.
That was the other reason I suggested a Mouse.. They take them more times than not so i was trying to just get the snake fed in your care. Some snakes are harder than others to switch over to Rats and some wont eat them even when owners rub the Rat on a mouse for scenting purpose.


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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

The rat you have is a ok size, dont go smaller on that.. If its a mouse, you dont need a very small one, they are already small so just a normal size mouse if you go that route. As far as the mouse and advantages..they like mice better, this is why its sometimes a selling point for some stores etc.. Is they say they are feeding rats that would be good because it saves the buyer from having to try and switch them over.
That was the other reason I suggested a Mouse.. They take them more times than not so i was trying to just get the snake fed in your care. Some snakes are harder than others to switch over to Rats and some wont eat them even when owners rub the Rat on a mouse for scenting purpose.


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Ok, I will try rat one more time, if it fails I would probably go to mouse.

I just want to provide a tip on feeding... Place the feeder in a separate tub and place that tub next to your snake's tank. Leave it alone until late at night. I usually feed around 9:30. If your snake is hungry, he will be watching that rat/mouse for hours and in less than 3 minutes, your snake will strike.

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Originally Posted by Cheesenugget

I just want to provide a tip on feeding... Place the feeder in a separate tub and place that tub next to your snake's tank. Leave it alone until late at night. I usually feed around 9:30. If your snake is hungry, he will be watching that rat/mouse for hours and in less than 3 minutes, your snake will strike.

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Ditto:gj:

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Originally Posted by Cheesenugget

I just want to provide a tip on feeding... Place the feeder in a separate tub and place that tub next to your snake's tank. Leave it alone until late at night. I usually feed around 9:30. If your snake is hungry, he will be watching that rat/mouse for hours and in less than 3 minutes, your snake will strike.

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I got a small tub to keep rat for now. I should use that. Can they smell even with lids closed? He probably can't see because I wrapped the enclosure with bubble wrap to try insulating, don't know if it's working or not but yea. What is really the point of feeding them at night? I get they are nocturnal but lights are on at home! do they just feel the night? haha
I do still have the rat pup set in small tub next to the snake tub but he does not care at all lol. I think he is not ready to eat yet.

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Originally Posted by gusanr14

I got a small tub to keep rat for now. I should use that. Can they smell even with lids closed? He probably can't see because I wrapped the enclosure with bubble wrap to try insulating, don't know if it's working or not but yea. What is really the point of feeding them at night? I get they are nocturnal but lights are on at home! do they just feel the night? haha
I do still have the rat pup set in small tub next to the snake tub but he does not care at all lol. I think he is not ready to eat yet.

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Yes they can smell, on another note a month ago I told you the tubs need Air holes so I hope you listened to that...
As far as the point of feeding them at night. Your a College Student so I know you have some smarts so lets put it this way.. If I leave the Lights on in your house for 24 hours are you going to know if its day or night without looking at a Clock? Id hope so.
People have tricked reptiles over periods of time by providing artificial lighting and Darkness at opposite times but thats not what you have done. You cant just dim the lights and think the snakes dumb. Its their instinct to hunt when its safe at night.
If I switch your light off in your room and tell you its Midnight are you going to believe me Hahaha?
Come on now your asking some silly stuff. Lets not go backwards and start asking why you cant do things your way again... We've been helping for a month now and everything you have done that was recommended with heating etc... has worked. What you have tried to do yourself hasn't so lets follow whats been proven to work so you succeed with feeding here my friend.


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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

Yes they can smell, on another note a month ago I told you the tubs need Air holes so I hope you listened to that...
As far as the point of feeding them at night. Your a College Student so I know you have some smarts so lets put it this way.. If I leave the Lights on in your house for 24 hours are you going to know if its day or night without looking at a Clock? Id hope so.
People have tricked reptiles over periods of time by providing artificial lighting and Darkness at opposite times but thats not what you have done. You cant just dim the lights and think the snakes dumb. Its their instinct to hunt when its safe at night.
If I switch your light off in your room and tell you its Midnight are you going to believe me Hahaha?
Come on now your asking some silly stuff. Lets not go backwards and start asking why you cant do things your way again... We've been helping for a month now and everything you have done that was recommended with heating etc... has worked. What you have tried to do yourself hasn't so lets follow whats been proven to work so you succeed with feeding here my friend.


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Correct me if I understood it wrong, so you are saying even if the lights are on at night, they know it is night time yea?
And yea, I will gladly do what you guys are recommending. I am not even trying to go near the enclosure so that I make it perfect next week.

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Originally Posted by gusanr14

Correct me if I understood it wrong, so you are saying even if the lights are on at night, they know it is night time yea?
And yea, I will gladly do what you guys are recommending. I am not even trying to go near the enclosure so that I make it perfect next week.

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The snake knows its night yes, if you turn on all the lights its going to Hide no matter what time it is though, thats how Ball Pythons are.... When I look at my snakes at 10pm and they are climbing i use a light in the hall and I stay in the dark snake room with just a little light shining in.. If I turn the snake room light on they soon head back to their Hides. They dont want to be out where they can be seen or feel unsafe. Its instinct. These snakes aren't domesticated, they're captive bred, thats different. They tolerate us and some tolerate us better than others. Get yourself a Small desk light and use that the nights your feeding. Don't put it next to the Tub, put it on the other side of the room so its just enough you don't run into the wall. Then the snake should be ok with it.
As far as peaking at him this week thats ok, just dont keep taking the lid off or picking him up until he gets a meal down.
Did you try the Rat again now that its late?
If I were you id return it tomorrow if he dont take it. I doubt you can keep it alive all week. You have school & a life. See if they would give you credit for next feeding on all that stuff you bought for it too.
Its a baby so it cant hurt your snake if you try it again in the dark for 15min.


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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

The snake knows its night yes, if you turn on all the lights its going to Hide no matter what time it is though, thats how Ball Pythons are.... When I look at my snakes at 10pm and they are climbing i use a light in the hall and I stay in the dark snake room with just a little light shining in.. If I turn the snake room light on they soon head back to their Hides. They dont want to be out where they can be seen or feel unsafe. Its instinct. These snakes aren't domesticated, they're captive bred, thats different. They tolerate us and some tolerate us better than others. Get yourself a Small desk light and use that the nights your feeding. Don't put it next to the Tub, put it on the other side of the room so its just enough you don't run into the wall. Then the snake should be ok with it.
As far as peaking at him this week thats ok, just dont keep taking the lid off or picking him up until he gets a meal down.
Did you try the Rat again now that its late?
If I were you id return it tomorrow if he dont take it. I doubt you can keep it alive all week. You have school & a life. See if they would give you credit for next feeding on all that stuff you bought for it too.
Its a baby so it cant hurt your snake if you try it again in the dark for 15min.


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Hey I just tried while snake was about to come out. I did it very carefully when snake wasnt looking my way. However after I put the rat there, The snake pooped and urinated. Might sound like dumb question but do they pee this much? Have seen some videos but I didn’t know they would pee this much to wet half a paper towel. Should I just take the rat out now?
Is this a good sign of him acclimating to new environment? or does it mean nothing? I don't get it, snake smells the rat and just passes right over it.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...6be7b781db.jpg


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Originally Posted by gusanr14

Hey I just tried while snake was about to come out. I did it very carefully when snake wasnt looking my way. However after I put the rat there, The snake pooped and urinated. Might sound like dumb question but do they pee this much? Have seen some videos but I didn’t know they would pee this much to wet half a paper towel. Should I just take the rat out now? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6be7b781db.jpg


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Yes they can Pee alot.. I always get a uraits here and there buy they piss good too.
Well atleast you know now that he is functioning good. Take the rat out. Wash your hands from Rat smell and clean the enclosure. Then if your up in a Hour try it.


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Originally Posted by CALM Pythons

Yes they can Pee alot.. I always get a uraits here and there buy they piss good too.
Well atleast you know now that he is functioning good. Take the rat out. Wash your hands from Rat smell and clean the enclosure. Then if your up in a Hour try it.


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Yea, I just cleaned the cage. This guy loves moving back and forth cool side and hot side, never know where he is in.
I will try it in an hour to see how it goes.