newbie defacto snake owner tank too cool!

Hi All, At my son’s prompting, my wife bought him a BP, and a Zoo Med tank kit w/ “everything you need”, which is clearly not the case... As I suspected, primary care-taking has fallen to me, and I know almost nothing about caring for snakes. I’m already cringing at the replies I’m going to get from all the pros out there, so take it easy on me. I’m trying to improve our snakes quality of life.

We’ve had her for a few months now, and she’s eaten a few times, and pooped maybe twice. After some trial and error, I think I have a good system for humidity; I wet a dish towel, lay it over the screen, and cover it with a piece of plexiglass. The problem is I can’t get the temperature right….it’s WAAAY too cool. Consequently (I’m assuming), she’s coiled-up in her hide ALL of the time and almost never comes out. I have the hide in the middle of the tank, I have a heat pad underneath the left side, and a heat lamp resting on the mesh top on the left as well. I have an infrared heat gun, and it reads 70F in the middle, and like 75F on the left (warm) side. With a heat pad and a red heat lamp that are both on 24x7, how could it be so cool still? What adjustments would you make to make it warmer? No idea the wattage of the heat pad, but the lamp is Ambient temp in our house mid-winter is cool, like 64F, so that certainly doesn’t help. I can’t jack the temp just for the snake unfortunately. I'd post pictures of the setup, but I'm too new.



I’m also thinking the tank they sold us is way too small too. She’s like 3.5 to 4ft long in a 20 gal tank. I need a bigger tank, right?


I’ve had some small issues with mites here and there, so I got kind of spooked about loose substrate, thinking that might be a source, so I use paper towels to line the floor of the tank. Would you recommend Aspen snake bedding instead?
Assuming I can get the temp jacked-up, should the light be on a timer so it’s out some of the time to maintain proper biorhythms, or does it not matter? I also don’t want it to get too cool without it on.



Thanks to ALL for your help!! I’m sure Samantha thanks you too!

welcome!
:welcome:

ALL sources of heat MUST be regulated. you need a thermostat to control the under tank heater (UTH from now on) as well as something to control the bulb, or you risk cooking your snake. what size bulb are you using? you might need a bigger bulb. how are you measuring your temperatures? the readings could be incorrect.

the saying goes: "a hiding ball is a happy ball". it's a good thing she stays hidden, but that's also because she has no heat anywhere else in the enclosure.

you need 2 identical hides, and you need to create a thermal gradient.

read up here: ball python care sheet
and here: how to set up a 20 gallon tank
but the photos for that thread are here.

read up and if you still have questions we will be more than happy to help. :)

EDIT: lights on a timer are not necessary. regular daylight that comes in the room is enough.

Oh boy....way to cool. What size is you uth? You need a thermostat to regulate all heat sources. If your uth is on the left move the hide to the left over the uth (when you get a thermostat). Are you taking the uth temp at the glass? You need two identical sides one on the hot spot one on the cool side. Get a Che (ceramic heat emitter or bulb) your uth will not provide you ambient temps.

Welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of snake keeping, granted it wasn't your choice. I commend you for putting in the effort to provide the snake with a good home.

tttaylorrr is spot on, and one of the forum's best members for helping newbies and experienced keepers alik, so you're in good hands. Like she said, read up on the husbandry stickies she linked and go from there.

It sounds to me like you're really close. My guess is you need to up the strength of your bulb to probably a 100 watt. I use the dark purple ones because I can let them run all night and it remains dark in the enclosure. During the day, the lighting from the windows in the room are plenty for a BP.
Your UTH is there solely to provide a hot spot to aid in digestion and not for ambient temps.
VERY IMPORTANT: ALL heat sources should be regulated by a thermostat to prevent dangerous heat spikes which can cause serious burns or worse to your snake.

As for tank size, yeah, you'll need to upgrade, especially for a female. If you're going to stick with glass a 40 gallon breeder tank is ideal due to its floor space.

We're here to help, so feel free to ask away.

And I don't suspect anybody will be hard on you, you're stepping up and providing a good home for the snake rather than letting it suffer or just dumping it off on Craigslist or something. So, good on you!!

Thanks everybody! I knew I'd get tons of good help here. Ok, so I'm testing the temps using a infrared heat gun (one of the types with a laser) The UTH is an 8x6 Zoo Med Repti Therm. It says it's 8watts....should I get the next size up which is 8x12 and 16watts? I will fit under this tank, but I need a bigger tank anyway. So I assume without a thermostat, it's cranked at full power all the time, right? I'll get a thermostat for it! So the thermostat probe would lay right over the pad in the tank, right? I would set that to 90F? How do I know if the larger UTH can get there? Maybe I should put the smaller pad under the right side since it only does like 72-3?

The bulb is 100watts and red.

She barely fits in the plastic hide I have, but if she fits one way or the other, she's fine with it, right? I have two of them so I'll def put them both in. Oddly, I used to have two in there, and she never went into the one on the left over the heat pad, but it seems like it's only 75. Maybe it's WAY hotter inside the hide and especially once she's in there?? Thus the need for a thermostat huh.

Do yourself a favor and don't spend more money on more glass enclosures.

They are an endless source of frustration, and the bigger they get, the more difficult to heat correctly and keep humidity up.

Fix up what you have for now, and then order a PVC or Plastic snake enclosure (some take a while to ship out, hence the fix what you got for now..). Add to that the correct heat tape and thermostat and unless your house is kept under 75 degrees that may be all you need. You can add a light or radiate heat panel to it, if needed.

Your snake will be happier, you will be happier. If you add a substrate that holds humidity (any of the coco substrates for example) you will only have to mist every 3 days or less, very lightly. The snake will have the more private/dark enclosure it craves.

Then you can get a few hides and even some deco if you like.

Once you get your tank issues ironed out, I would set your snake up temporarily in a tub and get a PVC tank. Glass tanks are the worst for heat and humidity, a 41qt is a enough for an adult bp. Also, CHEs are better than the bulbs they last longer and don't produce light which could stress out your snake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jlatenight

So the thermostat probe would lay right over the pad in the tank, right?

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big rookie mistake. the thermostat probe should not be somewhere that it can get wet, poo/peed on, or pushed as this can cause a misreading and create a temp spike.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../5/crayola.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jlatenight

Oddly, I used to have two in there, and she never went into the one on the left over the heat pad, but it seems like it's only 75. Maybe it's WAY hotter inside the hide and especially once she's in there?? Thus the need for a thermostat huh.

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this is likely because your enclosure is freezing, so she stayed where there was warmth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

welcome!
:welcome:

ALL sources of heat MUST be regulated. you need a thermostat to control the under tank heater (UTH from now on) as well as something to control the bulb, or you risk cooking your snake. what size bulb are you using? you might need a bigger bulb. how are you measuring your temperatures? the readings could be incorrect.

the saying goes: "a hiding ball is a happy ball". it's a good thing she stays hidden, but that's also because she has no heat anywhere else in the enclosure.

you need 2 identical hides, and you need to create a thermal gradient.

read up here: ball python care sheet
and here: how to set up a 20 gallon tank
but the photos for that thread are here.

read up and if you still have questions we will be more than happy to help. :)

EDIT: lights on a timer are not necessary. regular daylight that comes in the room is enough.

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This ^^^^ and at some point a larger enclosure will be easier and needed. A 3.5/4' snake cant do anything in a 20 gallon tank with 2 hides and a Water dish. If this is going to be partly your new friend id grab a AP (animal plastics) T10 pvc enclosure for $240 delivered. You would end up enjoying the Snake. Hear are 2 AP enclosures stacked to give you a idea and a Link to the T10 i mentioned for you.
http://www.apcages.com/home/
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1131e6c414.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7dca7589df.jpg



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If you do end up getting a PVC enclosure at some point, be aware that some of them can come with quite a bit of lead time. If you'd like to bump her up to something bigger before then, tubs are a great option, and a LOT cheaper than buying a larger tank (my 32qt was maybe $6 at Target, but for a female you might to go at least one more size up, if not two). If you end up going this route, I recommend getting a melamine board to attach your UTH to- the probe can just go under the UTH (you can even route a little channel for said probe if power tools are your jam), and then nothing is stuck to your tub.

You're going to want a thermostat that you can plug both your UTH and heat lamp to, so a Herpstat EZ2 would probably be your best option. Herpstats are very reliable, and this one is very easy to use (I have the EZ1). Plus, if you end up going PVC later, you won't need to buy another t-stat to hook your heat panel and heat tape to. Shell out the extra $1 for the metal probe. ;)

And if you want to know for sure where your ambient temps and humidity are, these are awesome. ---> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M252EWA

Wow, a ton of awesome help here. Thanks to all! I'm definitely going to start looking into PVC enclosures for her. In the mean time, I'm going to get a thermostat for the UTH, a thermometer/hydrometer w/ probe, and I now know where to arrange them. I'm still stuck on one thing: I need more heat, so I'm thinking the 8x6" 8Watt UTH isn't cutting it, right? Since it's not on a thermostat, It's maxed all the time and not even close to hot enough. My 22gal tank is ~10" wide, so should I upgrade to the 8x12" 16watt UTH? Although it's bigger, does the doubling of the wattage mean it gets hotter? If I can get the smaller UTH off the bottom without breaking it, should I use it somewhere else in the tank, like the back or something? If I can get this temperature thing figured out, I think I'll be all set for now!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jlatenight

I'm still stuck on one thing: I need more heat, so I'm thinking the 8x6" 8Watt UTH isn't cutting it, right? Since it's not on a thermostat, It's maxed all the time and not even close to hot enough. My 22gal tank is ~10" wide, so should I upgrade to the 8x12" 16watt UTH? Although it's bigger, does the doubling of the wattage mean it gets hotter? If I can get the smaller UTH off the bottom without breaking it, should I use it somewhere else in the tank, like the back or something? If I can get this temperature thing figured out, I think I'll be all set for now!

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the UTH should cover 1/3 of the bottom of the enclosure. does it cover that? if not, it's too small. a higher wattage heating element will get hotter than a lower wattage, yes.

if you have one of those adhesive-backed UTHs, the instructions state to not remove them once placed as you can damage the internals very easily. i'd advise against trying to remove it completely and then reusing. i'd recommend Ultratherm UTHs and use aluminum tape to adhere it to the enclosure.

remember: UTHs do not heat the air, only the surface they touch.

how are you measuring the ambient (air) temps in the enclosure?

ok, this is kind of embarrassing, but I checked again with the heat gun and I think the problem was I was shooting through the glass when I measured the UTH area. It's like 122F square in the center of where the mat is, and 70F where she is now, pretty much the middle of the tank. So that would explain why she never goes over to the hot side!! So I'll stick with the UTH I have, and get the thermostat for it and set it to like 90, and that should be all set. Ambient temp says 72F and the thermometer is an analog one, and it's near the top in the middle of the back wall. How can I get the Ambient temp up? I have a 100W heat bulb going all the time resting on the screen on the left side.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jlatenight

Ambient temp says 72F and the thermometer is an analog one, and it's near the top in the middle of the back wall. How can I get the Ambient temp up? I have a 100W heat bulb going all the time resting on the screen on the left side.

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an analog thermometer is essentially useless in terms of accuracy; get a digital one like this for $8 at wally world. you're probably getting a false reading. get a good thermometer/hygrometer so you can accurately measure before you start thinking the temps are too low.

also, the thermometer should be closer to the enclosure floor, as you should be measuring closer to where the snake spends its time.

Since you're in the market for thermostats, we all highly recommend Herpstats by Spyder Robotics. Top notch quality, great longevity and accuracy and a bunch of safety features! Worth every penny we promise! In the case you discover you will need a secondary heat source to help with ambient temps, the Herpstat 2 model would be a great choice!

https://www.spyderrobotics.com/index...=index&cPath=1

If they are abit outside your current price range you can always start with Jumpstart until you can save up for a Herpstat :)

https://www.amazon.com/MTPRTC-Contro...ct_top?ie=UTF8

I have a thermostat and a digital thermo/hygro w/ probe on the way! I just moved the analog one near the bottom for now. So say it stays at like ~70 ambient. What would you do next to bump it up?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jlatenight

What would you do next to bump it up?

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mini space heater? if you have one handy.

I do, and I just put it in there to bump it up a little. I really don't like the idea of running a space heater all the time though. What about another light fixture for the right side with a CHE in it, along with the lamp on the left? That would have to be safer & cheaper than running a space heater, right?

I don't think you need to run 2 heating elements. Just one that's hot enough. Either a CHE or 100 watt bulb should work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jlatenight

I do, and I just put it in there to bump it up a little. I really don't like the idea of running a space heater all the time though. What about another light fixture for the right side with a CHE in it, along with the lamp on the left? That would have to be safer & cheaper than running a space heater, right?

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of course! it will have to be regulated as well, tho. TBH, if the room has a steady temperature, you can get away with using a rheostat/lamp dimmer instead of a thermostat. they're cheaper but also cannot read the surround temps, hence why they should only be used in a room with a stable temp. a thermostat will always be the best, safest and most preferred option, but a rheostat can work if you know what you're doing. when i ran a CHE with my 20gal glass enclosure, i used rheostats like this one.

EDIT: i agree with craigafrechette in that i don't think you need to jump to getting two fixtures just yet. IMO one 100W bulb should be MUCH more than enough to heat the entire enclosure, which is why i think you're not getting accurate readings for temp. once you have the proper equipment (which you said were on their way) and get everything dialed in and accurately measured, THEN we'll figure out if you need more heat.

It's a plan! Thanks to all you guys for the help. I'll report back after I get the new stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jlatenight

I do, and I just put it in there to bump it up a little. I really don't like the idea of running a space heater all the time though. What about another light fixture for the right side with a CHE in it, along with the lamp on the left? That would have to be safer & cheaper than running a space heater, right?

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The glass is loosing heat and the screen. You have a 100watt heat lamp you said correct? That is more than enough for a 20 gallon tank. Cover most of the screen except for where the Heat Lamp is, also 3 sides of the glass with Cardboard or foam insulation board. Move the Heat lamp a bit closer to the cool hide for now so she is at least 80. Use you temp gun ontop of the hide to see what the temp is after a few hours. Check it again in the morning as it can take a long time to regulate and might be to hot. Until your Thermostat comes put a piece of cardboard inside the tank over where the UTH Hide is so he doesn't get burned by the 122. That should take it down to a temp a lot better for a few day incase its to cool at night and trys to lay on it.


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I would highly recommend insulation for the glass enclosure. Get a sheet of the pink or blue foamboard from your local hardware store, about 1/2-1" thickness. Cut pieces to size for the sides and back of tank. Affix to tank with some tape. Can also use it over the lid but when using hot bulbs and CHEs in dome fixtures you have to be very careful about not letting the foam touch as it could become a fire hazard.

This made a huge difference for me when I first started out and had a glass enclosure. Our ambient house temps in winter were also pretty low, and the glass conducts that heat right out of the tank. With the foamboard it became much more manageable.

As a plus having the sides and back of tank blocked off can help the BP feel more secure. If you think the pink or blue foam is ugly you can cover it with contact paper or paint it (test on scrap piece though as some spray paint solvents can eat away at certain foam)

Ok guys, I'm making serious progress here. So I bought a used glass breeder tank for cheap with a bunch of accessories for $40! I took calm python's advice and put a piece of cardboard over the UTH in the old/current tank, and I switched the lamp for a CHE (that was included w/ the new tank). I checked on her before I went to bed, and she was out and about!! First time I've seen her out in a LONG time. She also did a HUGE poop!!! I noticed there's much more humidity with the CHE than the red bulb...it's WAY in the green now and it was borderline before. So I seem to have the current tank pretty stabilized, I just have to setup the new tank. I'll have to clean it all, play around with placement, temps, thermometers, and stuff before she moves in.

Are you using one of those dial hydrometers? If you are you should probably replace that with an electronic one, they are more accurate and your snake won't be able to pull them down and get adhesive on their skin.

part of the stuff I bought yesterday were two digital thermometers with probes, so I got both of those going to check the temp on the hot and cool sides. I have a digital indoor/outdoor/hygrometer on its way too.

I know it probably seems overwhelming a bit, that we are all recommending all this high-tech equipment, that can be fairly expensive. the GOOD NEWS, is that once you get everything set up correctly, ball python keeping is extremely low maintenance and cheap. The hard part is almost over!

Thanks Godzilla, SO I have the new tank setup, I have the UTH with the thermostat probe inbetween the UTH and glass underneath, and a thermometer probe under the papertowel substrate and it's almost right on 90F, so that's good. The ambient is about 75, but I'm going to insulate the sides and back which should help. One thing I'm wondering about: so she's been pretty stressed temperature-wise for a while, and she did poop last night which is awesome, but how do I know when I should try a dead rat? I'd hate to waste a rat if I defrost/heat it and she doesn't want to, or is that what I have to do; just try and see if she's ready?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jlatenight

Thanks Godzilla, SO I have the new tank setup, I have the UTH with the thermostat probe inbetween the UTH and glass underneath, and a thermometer probe under the papertowel substrate and it's almost right on 90F, so that's good. The ambient is about 75, but I'm going to insulate the sides and back which should help. One thing I'm wondering about: so she's been pretty stressed temperature-wise for a while, and she did poop last night which is awesome, but how do I know when I should try a dead rat? I'd hate to waste a rat if I defrost/heat it and she doesn't want to, or is that what I have to do; just try and see if she's ready?

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Id wait a full week once she is in the new enclosure.
Also in the future its easier to have 1 thermometer that does it all. My Acurite indoor/outdoor thermometer (off amazon) has a temp on the housing itself, a probe i use for the hotside and the housing also has Humidity. 3 in one, less wires, less clutter that the snake can get into.
Here is a link.
https://www.amazon.com/AcuRite-00891.../dp/B001BO8CUE


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