Best complete rack system

I have decided that a rack system is the way to go for our future collection. I’ve been looking around for a complete rack system (heat and all) already installed. Something big enough for full grown balls maybe 3 to 6 racks. Anyone got a good starting place or use something similar

I'm not sure if I completly understand what you are looking for but Animal Plastics is one of the best and has great prices. :D They come with/without heat tape

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Originally Posted by BallPythonWannaBe

I'm not sure if I completly understand what you are looking for but Animal Plastics is one of the best and has great prices. :D They come with/without heat tape

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Sorry if I rambled... basically I’d like to order a complete rack system. Just plug it in and run it.

If you want the best of the best of the best you can get an ARS-7010 rack. It's about $100 per level with heat panels installed, you would just need a temperature controller like a VE-100 (for less than $100). If you plan on expanding you can get a few levels of an ARS-7030 hybrid rack, they sell for about $200 per level and have three tubs per level, so about $66 per tub. That's actually how I started out and eventually stacked on more levels.

http://arscaging.com/ars7030.html

If you want the cheapest of the cheap you can buy a wire rack shelving system and use plastic totes with holes drilled in the sides. You would still need to buy heat tape for a hotspot and a thermostat to control the heat.

You can also build it out of melamine but don't get it wet or it will swell up and get ruined.

Beware of cheap racks that are totally made of plastic and can be tipped over by a dog or child.

Freedom Breeder is a close second to ARS but some say the build quality isn't what it should be for the price. Personally I haven't compared it side by side to ARS so I'm not too sure about this comment. I have ARS rodent racks and the Freedom Breeder rodent racks seem to have more options like screened covers on tubs, recessed water nozzles, etc... Personally I'm totally sold on all ARS racks and am building a professional outfit as my business grows. I want something that I can hand down to my grandkids and will last for generations.

Honestly I think the best thing to do would be to go to a big retile show like NARBC and look at all the racks on display. Give them a shake to see how stable they are, pull out the tubs to see how they slide. A personal inspection will give you more than we can ever say on this forum.

I too am looking to move to a rack system.. I have been looking at C Serpents as well at TGR racks.. both look pretty nice but would be great to hear some opinions here... I only have 1 ball now but of course if I bought a 3 or 5 rack I would have to fill it with more snakes. :)

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

If you want the best of the best of the best you can get an ARS-7010 rack. It's about $100 per level with heat panels installed, you would just need a temperature controller like a VE-100 (for less than $100). If you plan on expanding you can get a few levels of an ARS-7030 hybrid rack, they sell for about $200 per level and have three tubs per level, so about $66 per tub. That's actually how I started out and eventually stacked on more levels.

If you want the cheapest of the cheap you can buy a wire rack shelving system and use plastic totes with holes drilled in the sides. You would still need to buy heat tape for a hotspot and a thermostat to control the heat.

You can also build it out of melamine but don't get it wet or it will swell up and get ruined.

Beware of cheap racks that are totally made of plastic and can be tipped over by a dog or child.

Freedom Breeder is a close second to ARS but some say the build quality isn't what it should be for the price. Personally I haven't compared it side by side to ARS so I'm not too sure about this comment. I have ARS rodent racks and the Freedom Breeder rodent racks seem to have more options like screened covers on tubs, recessed water nozzles, etc... Personally I'm totally sold on all ARS racks and am building a professional outfit as my business grows. I want something that I can hand down to my grandkids and will last for generations.

Honestly I think the best thing to do would be to go to a big retile show like NARBC and look at all the racks on display. Give them a shake to see how stable they are, pull out the tubs to see how they slide. A personal inspection will give you more than we can ever say on this forum.

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the ars look nice but it doesn’t appear they make smaller size racks like say 6 tops preferably three

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Originally Posted by JerseyChris

I too am looking to move to a rack system.. I have been looking at C Serpents as well at TGR racks.. both look pretty nice but would be great to hear some opinions here... I only have 1 ball now but of course if I bought a 3 or 5 rack I would have to fill it with more snakes. :)

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I was looking at TGR but was told they have wiring issues by a member on here

The thing I really like about ARS is that they sell individual levels for all of their racks and a lot of their different racks can be stacked together. I was thinking of this ARS-7010, you can buy it one level at a time, you can even just buy one level with one tub. You can have a small stack or stack them as high as you can imagine, it all just slides together and it's stable enough to probably go 20 levels high!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...vlg_hybrid.jpg

Depends which route you want to go, having been doing this for over a decade I can tell you that PVC racks are not cheap nor do they get easily knocked over like mentioned by some :rolleyes:, it depends on where you get your rack and the type of rack you get, I can stand on mine and lean on mine very easily.

What will and should motivate your decision is

Ambient temp and whether you need or want something open or enclosed, in a cooler room enclosed racks are a must.

Top manufacturer when it comes to metal racks

ARS and Freedom breeder, the advantage of Freedom breeder they are stainless steel and will never rust, I ihave seen the effect of 15 to 20 years of wear on powder coated racks (like ARS and the old freedom breeder racks), and it's not pretty they will rust.

Top PVC racks

C-Cerpents , Reptile Basics, Animal Plastics

They have solid product, the only downside is AP has a slow lead time, however if in a hurry C-Serpent and Reptile Basics have a pretty fast lead time.

Ultimately you have to find what works for you, if you can and there is a show nearby where those racks manufacturers are check their rack in person, I know in my case it sealed the deal after deciding which would be more appropriate based on my setup.

I have 2 racks by C-serpents. Both came assembled. They go to shows and sell there, but will also ship their smaller racks. For adult BPs, you'd want a CB70 rack. They make a 3 tub version that they will ship. They make larger stacks for pickup at shows. I thought their prices were on par with AP once you consider that the Cserpents racks come with tubs and you have to buy the AP tubs separately. My 3 tub adult rack from them came with vision tubs which I love compared to the iris tubs.

I'm jumping to ARS as well, since they sell by the level if you can't drop over 2 grand for a full rack at one time. One reason I went with ARS over FB. Mine is in transit today, should be here tomorrow. Ordered 2 7030 levels w/ wheel base of course(have to have it for the bottom heat strip). Will probably order 2 more levels of 7030 with a transition level to have hatchling/juvenile rack on the top half. Basically want to end up with 2 of these, looks good the way it's set up in the pic. Have one for clown stuff and the other for non recessive morphs.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...29ae26a39d.jpg

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I definitely think the 3 rack v70 will be ordered shortly I like the fully assembled with belly heat. Here lies the other problem. The ambient temp in my hous is 70 (pa gets cold and oil gets expensive) the belly heat will not affect ambient tub temps. So what are the options to raise the ambient temp in the tub.

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Originally Posted by DandD

I have decided that a rack system is the way to go for our future collection. I’ve been looking around for a complete rack system (heat and all) already installed. Something big enough for full grown balls maybe 3 to 6 racks. Anyone got a good starting place or use something similar

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In my opinion, for adult ball pythons, you really shouldn't be going smaller than something like the ARS 8507. If they outgrow a standard large hide, you won't practically be able to fit a larger hide into the usual CB-70 tubs. The listed size might say 18", but that's the top opening size. The floor space is actually a bit smaller/narrower. If you want to provide a decent thermal gradient, please consider one of the larger sizes. It's easiest to do when you are first putting enclosures together.

ARS racks are indeed powder coated steel, which is usually rated to like ~10 years. This "effective lifetime" is typically related to ambient temperature and humidity levels where ever they are located.

I think the ARS-8507 is overkill for most ball pythons. But I do have a few of my monster balls in ARS-8018 tubs, basically the same dimension as the 8507 just not as tall. I have a few females that are close to 5000 grams in those big tubs, but I think most ball pythons are 2500 grams or less and would do just fine in an ARS-70 series tub.

If you use grey tubs you don't need to use any hides or decorations at all, the tub acts as a large hide itself. All of my ball pythons are perfectly happy in ARS grey tubs without hides. I actually carve out some of the coconut husk substrate in the back over the hotspot so they sit directly on the tub bottom. It gives them a 'hole' in the substrate to hide in. I actually use ARS-5040 tubs for my males and to grow out females, I'd say probably up to about 1200 grams or so max. Then you need to move them to a 70 series tub. I like the ARS stackable system because you can have some tubs of each size in the same stack and move them up to bigger tubs as they grow (some but not all are stackable).

I'd say a hatchling tub (ARS-1075) until about 500 grams, ARS-5040 until 1000-1200 grams, then an ARS-7030 tub until 2500 grams, then ARS-8018 will grow out the very biggest ball pythons (pretty rare to have any over 2500 grams though).

It's best to use smaller tubs as appropriate and change out the substrate more frequently, you'll actually save on bedding costs in the long run.

I have a C-Serpents 3 stack V70 rack, and I also keep my house around 70 degrees. I wish it was a little warmer on the cool side, but it does ok. I keep it on the warmest room in the house. With the room temp at 72 I get about 76 at the cool end.

Chris at C-Serpents will add a second row of heat tape if requested. I think it’s about an extra $40 to add the additional heat for the 3 stack. I am planning to do this when I order my next rack. This might work for you as well.

Goodluck,
Bryan

Boaphile makes AWESOME racks as well !!!

You may have to wait a little longer, but mine has been running for 9 years without a hitch. I use the Rhinoraxx Racks. You can choose from different configurations. Heat is installed. I love mine and my next hatchling rack will be a Boaphile as well.

I am NOT impressed with TGR !!!

I used their hatchling rack for one season and it worked ok. Didn't like the "open side and back" construction though. But then I found out about how shoddy they were wired and THAT I was not at all happy about. I messaged them about it and I was ignored. I finally had my say at someone's else review about the same issue. That got the discussion started again and they got on that thread and "explained" how that wiring was tested "by them" and should be ok. And they said they would message me about a resolution.

Needless to say, I never heard another word from them. I sold that rack at half price with full disclosure. New owner won't use heat tape, heats the entire room.

All that said, supposedly they wire their heat tape correctly now, and they also offer side and back panels for the racks. But for me, that ship has sailed. I can understand mistakes and I can understand issues. But its how you take care of them that matters. I never expected money back or new parts or anything of that sort. But I DID expect them to at least reply to me or message me.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

I have 2 racks by C-serpents. Both came assembled. They go to shows and sell there, but will also ship their smaller racks. For adult BPs, you'd want a CB70 rack. They make a 3 tub version that they will ship. They make larger stacks for pickup at shows. I thought their prices were on par with AP once you consider that the Cserpents racks come with tubs and you have to buy the AP tubs separately. My 3 tub adult rack from them came with vision tubs which I love compared to the iris tubs.

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Wow I really like the C-Serpents racks... I wasn't thinking of going to a rack system until now :P

I strongly recommend only rack systems that are closed in on the sides and back, because they help maintain heat and humidity and help protect your snakes from cold drafts. I also highly recommend just building your own out of PVC or Melamine. There are really super simple and cheap to build and it will be much higher quality than the commercially available rack systems...

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

I also highly recommend just building your own out of PVC or Melamine. There are really super simple and cheap to build and it will be much higher quality than the commercially available rack systems...

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Hm, I have to say, my opinion differs...don't shoot me :D


PVC is NOT cheap to buy (the right kind) and Melamine is so SO heavy and doesn't play well with humidity.

Years ago when a rescue I had dropped a clutch, I built my own hatchling rack. Out of Melamine. Now...it was very nice. Solid as a rock. Everything fit perfect, I added heat tape. But solid as a rock was also heavy as a BIG rock. Since I don't like ANY racks that have the tubs sliding directly onto the heat tape, I ran the heat tape along the back of the tubs. Worked perfect, but still, I prefer belly heat with heat tape. And for that I like the PVC racks that have that channel routered in, so the heat tape doesn't have the tub sliding (rubbing) on it.

I much prefer a well built PVC rack over Melamine. IF the PVC was better priced AND I had the correct tools to build them like the companies that make the good ones, I would consider them. But for now its more cost effective to buy a PVC rack , then to build one. IF one wants it done the way those companies make them.

But hey, I agree on wanting them "closed in". And I don't even have drafts and my rooms stay even heated. I just prefer them that way.

Melamine is definitely heavy! That's the only thing I don't like about it. But, it stands up to humidity just fine, though. It's laminated, so how couldn't it? That's why melamine is pretty much the standard for rack builds... I would definitely prefer PVC over melamine, though. It's $80.00 per sheet, but that still beats $245.00 + $65.00 S&H for a little 3 rack system with only 4" heat tape and you could probably build a 4 rack system out of 1 sheet...

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Originally Posted by Aedryan Methyus

Melamine is definitely heavy! That's the only thing I don't like about it. But, it stands up to humidity just fine, though. It's laminated, so how couldn't it? That's why melamine is pretty much the standard for rack builds... I would definitely prefer PVC over melamine, though. It's $80.00 per sheet, but that still beats $245.00 + $65.00 S&H for a little 3 rack system with only 4" heat tape and you could probably build a 4 rack system out of 1 sheet...

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There are always cuts and rough edges and drill holes somewhere...and any moisture seeping in will distort it. But I guess one could seal those areas...I just don't like melamine..

I still prefer PVC with routered out channels for heat tape [emoji6]


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Originally Posted by zina10

There are always cuts and rough edges and drill holes somewhere...and any moisture seeping in will distort it. But I guess one could seal those areas...I just don't like melamine..

I still prefer PVC with routered out channels for heat tape [emoji6]


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Agreed, melamine is crap. It is cheap, but it WILL eventually warp. PVC is the way to go if you are DIY rack system . I went with high-cabinet grade oak plywood, with waterproof sealant, which is stronger than pVC, but VERY VERY HEAVY. I couldn't afford the shipping for pVC, and it is only a 6 shelf rack, soon to be 4, as I am splitting it up to lessen the weighet.

I have been a mechanic for 20 years, so I build my own generally, but at some point I will probably h=buy some affordable racks. I have decided upon the Vivarium Electronics http://www.reptilebasics.com/reptile...series-2-rack/ CB70 5 rack system, enclosed on all sides and PVC material, at a very affordable price. I will keep my adult females in larger tubs though, as I don't think 41 quart tubs are nearly enough for a very large ball python.

Still plenty of time before I decide, any recommendations on which racks to use for large females? I'm looking for enclosed pVC racks.

RBI racks are well made, I use the cb70 3 shelf, ve-2 and ve-6. The only thing I don't like about them is how wavy the tape can get in the recessed section. I used foil tape on the edges of the tape of course to keep it down evenly. If not there can be hotspots on your tub. Once it's laying evenly the heat distribution to the tub is more even. Depending on what you want, how many snakes you plan to keep and what you want to spend, definitely look into ARS or FB, I love my ARS so far, the heat panels are top notch and heat tubs perfectly. Be glad to answer any questions about RBI or ARS stuff.

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

Still plenty of time before I decide, any recommendations on which racks to use for large females? I'm looking for enclosed pVC racks.

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When the time comes that my females get so big that they need something larger I will get and move them to ars 8018 more than likely.


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Originally Posted by zina10

There are always cuts and rough edges and drill holes somewhere...and any moisture seeping in will distort it. But I guess one could seal those areas...I just don't like melamine..

I still prefer PVC with routered out channels for heat tape [emoji6]


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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

Agreed, melamine is crap. It is cheap, but it WILL eventually warp. PVC is the way to go if you are DIY rack system . I went with high-cabinet grade oak plywood, with waterproof sealant, which is stronger than pVC, but VERY VERY HEAVY. I couldn't afford the shipping for pVC, and it is only a 6 shelf rack, soon to be 4, as I am splitting it up to lessen the weighet.

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PVC is definitely most preferable. Melamine isn't the easiest material to work with and it's definitely ungodly heavy, but that's nothing a good set of casters can't solve. A little 3 or 4 rack system wouldn't weigh much, though...

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Originally Posted by cchardwick

The thing I really like about ARS is that they sell individual levels for all of their racks and a lot of their different racks can be stacked together. I was thinking of this ARS-7010, you can buy it one level at a time, you can even just buy one level with one tub. You can have a small stack or stack them as high as you can imagine, it all just slides together and it's stable enough to probably go 20 levels high!

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...vlg_hybrid.jpg

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So all these snakes kept in racks are basically in near darkness 24/7 , 365 days ??


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

So all these snakes kept in racks are basically in near darkness 24/7 , 365 days ??


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You could say that, but that's how ball pythons are, they aren't out roaming around in their natural habitat either. Their hold up in some hole in the ground, hollow tree trunk etc. I don't consider a ball python a display snake personally. Although I don't have so many that I can't get everyone of them out just about everyday and let them roam around a good bit to really stretch out and get the muscles moving.

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Originally Posted by oodaT

You could say that, but that's how ball pythons are, they aren't out roaming around in their natural habitat either. Their hold up in some hole in the ground, hollow tree trunk etc. I don't consider a ball python a display snake personally. Although I don't have so many that I can't get everyone of them out just about everyday and let them roam around a good bit to really stretch out and get the muscles moving.

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I always kinda cringe at that, like BPs just teleport between hollows. Yes, they like tight spaces, and although that's an easy 80% of the story, or more, it's not the whole book. They do come above ground, they do crawl between burrows. At certain times of years, in some areas, they are found out and about during the day. I do not know of any studies that track their nocturnal movements, but based on the behavior of other pythons and other snakes of similar body plans, I wouldn't be shocked if hunting ball pythons are sometimes forced to leave their burrows and find an ambush spot by a well-used rodent trail. Remember, their burrows are found by collectors who look for sign that a snake is coming in and out of a burrow -- that in itself tells me they're more active than we give them credit for. At least a little. Just not at a time that they normally cross paths with humans.

Because of that, honestly, near darkness is probably fine. It's likely that enough light makes it through the cracks to cue the animals as to what time of day of it is, and not being forced to see the human, especially when no hide is available, will reduce stress. Is it necessary? Probably not. Does it hurt? Also, probably not. Only way to know is to study it. I only know that it works, and can work very well.

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Originally Posted by oodaT

You could say that, but that's how ball pythons are, they aren't out roaming around in their natural habitat either. Their hold up in some hole in the ground, hollow tree trunk etc. I don't consider a ball python a display snake personally. Although I don't have so many that I can't get everyone of them out just about everyday and let them roam around a good bit to really stretch out and get the muscles moving.

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Mmmmm well I've seen a report from a Royal python hunter / gatherer and a decent % are found in trees and bushes ( during the day ) ... sooooo..


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Yes, they travel during breeding season and when they set out to find new hiding spots. Most of the time, that travel is done during darkness, because that is what they prefer.

There is a great write up by someone that actually spent a couple of month roughing it in the bush, studying those animals. Most were found in burrows. Some "hunters" stay close to towns, where you will find a lot of trash which attracts rodents and therefor some snakes. There aren't many "burrows" in that environment, so you may find animals living and moving around differently Just like we have much wildlife that have not only come to our cities to steal some garbage but have actually "moved in". Far from their natural environment and way of living, yet there they are. To observe their natural behavior you have to move out into "their" natural habitat.

If we wanted to replicate "natural environment" as in them being able to travel from one burrow to another, we would need at least a room sized enclosure. And then you would most likely still never see the snake, nor could you easily maintain heat and humidity. They are ambush predators. They usually wait for rodents to "stop by". Eventually the snake has to defecate or pass urine and that is oftentimes when they move on to another place, because the smell will give them away to the rodents.

In captivity they have us, the clean up crew, to take care of that problem..

The near darkness is not a problem at all, imho, if anything, it probably helps many of these shy snakes to be more at ease. Which has been proven countless times by how well they are doing, growing, staying healthy and pro creating when set up that way.

Can they be maintained in a display setup, of course. But I doubt they are "happier" or more excited about it because it has light and "fun stuff". If the husbandry is correct and you do offer some "cover" they learn over time that it is a safe place and do show themselves. Usually when the "lights" go out, LOL. I enjoy my display setup, and I make it work for my snake.

But I still say, in the case of Ball Pythons, tubs can be the perfect setup !