Help! Eggs out of no where!

Ok, so don't be mad at me :/ Not from no where exactly

First, I am no reptile expert, I like reptiles and snakes, have common sense, watch some YT vids on occasion, and sometimes lurk here for cool info.

I joined here when I bought a pair of BPs from a local who was moving and no one else wanted them,. They are currently 9 YO and a 4 YO and they have shared the same enclosure for 3+years (I know, I know, BAD), I have had them for a little more than 12 months.
They have never had any issue together the entire time I have owned them and the previous owner stated the same (I provided more hides and ect after purchasing). I have planned to buy them each their own 4x2x1 PVC enclosure, but have been saving up and have not been able to yet ($450+ shipped, yikes).

So anyways, the problem, today I checked on them and one of the warm side hides was skewed, so I lifted it and right away saw eggs and the smaller snake defensively staring at me (SHE (Now she I guess) is normally super sweet and loving, they both are). Put the hide back, panicked a bit, then checked again and left them alone.

There are 4 eggs I think, maybe 5 but for sure 4 and they look nice and healthy and are piled.

The issue is as follows, I have one large enclosure with 2 snakes in it, the eggs are under the far right hide under the lamp (Temp under hide is 85-88) (humidity inside cage is around 50-60%) and the mom is just sitting with them, as I understand she will do until they hatch unless offered food or thirsty.

I do have extra lamps and even a head pad and spare herpstat that is not being used...

Should I
A) Leave them all alone and let her nest them and hope the male stays nice.
B) Remove/Find temp home for male and let her nest them.
C) Make myself a makeshift incubator and steal the eggs to try and save.
D) Some better plan?
E) Kick myself for being stupid


Also, I'm a dumbarse because about 2 weeks ago I noticed a swelling in the small snake when she refused her last meal and left her alone thinking she may be gravid(Right term?) or something and may be female, guess I was kind of right...
More than anything I just want my snakes and offspring to be ok because it's not their fault I was stupid and unprepared for this.


Thanks for any heap, ideas, criticism, or encouragement ahead of time...


edit
Pic:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...om/lYjNhbL.jpg

Honestly you could build a DIY incubater, but first consider if you have the resorces to house and feed 4-5 baby ball pythons.

Freeze the eggs before the embryos develop and dispose of them and invest your time and money in setting up separate homes for the two adults you have. You might want to set one up in a tub until you can pay for the PVC enclosure you want.

I would freeze the eggs and immediately seperate the male, you don't exactly seem prepared to care for the hatchings. There are also some DIY incubators you could try.

Everyone makes mistakes. Learn from it. I personally would see it through and build myself a makeshift incubator then begin housing those babies in a rack system of tubs. That can be done fairly cheap. Then get those adults split up in the very near future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by BallPythonWannaBe

Honestly you could build a DIY incubater, but first consider if you have the resorces to house and feed 4-5 baby ball pythons.

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I have the herpstat and pad to make an incubator, and could care for 4 or less babies until they can be sold local (There are always people looking for BPs here).

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Originally Posted by Kcl

Freeze the eggs before the embryos develop and dispose of them and invest your time and money in setting up separate homes for the two adults you have. You might want to set one up in a tub until you can pay for the PVC enclosure you want.

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Kind of savage to think about. So freezing is the way to dispose of them before they form, good to know.
I think I will post on my local FB for a breeder or someone who would take them for free if I can't save them myself, if not I guess that will be my option for now as sad as it is.



https://pensacola.craigslist.org/for...463029752.html

I saw this local and even thought about going and buying it, offering them a little less, but then I read up reviews on them and they are bad.

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Originally Posted by lew-e

Everyone makes mistakes. Learn from it. I personally would see it through and build myself a makeshift incubator then begin housing those babies in a rack system of tubs. That can be done fairly cheap. Then get those adults split up in the very near future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I would like to do that if possible, I have the stuff to make an incubator, and there is a crappy one Open box local as well, and I know I could easily rack 4 small babies for a while, I just thought asking for advise would help while I figure out what to do.

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Originally Posted by Viper0hr

Kind of savage to think about. So freezing is the way to dispose of them before they form, good to know.
I think I will post on my local FB for a breeder or someone who would take them for free if I can't save them myself, if not I guess that will be my option for now as sad as it is.

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I don't really agree on it being savage personally. It's very early in development, neural development is limited. There's some differentiation, but the ability to feel pain and think is extremely, extremely unlikely to be there yet. They don't respond to stimuli at this stage. It's far less of a thinking, feeling creature than those of us who are meat-eaters contribute to the more painful death of every day. Letting them develop on the other hand is 4-5 thinking, feeling creatures that need to be taken care of for up to 40 years.

The paper below has pictures of an African rock python's development stages in the egg and description. Ball pythons' development would be similar.

http://www.academia.edu/698248/Embry...head_and_limbs

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Originally Posted by Viper0hr

Ok, so don't be mad at me :/ Not from no where exactly

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Originally Posted by Viper0hr

have common sense, watch some YT vids on occasion, and sometimes lurk here for cool info.

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Originally Posted by Viper0hr

they have shared the same enclosure for 3+years (I know, I know, BAD)

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sorry to come down on you a bit, but how can you state you have common sense yet prove you ignored everything this forum tells you? you say to be a lurker, but did you actually research anything? you seem very ill-equipped to care for a ball python, let alone two. why did you get them in the first place if you weren't going to provide proper care? your female (that you didn't even realize was female) could have become egg-bound and died, or had other complications from being gravid. you jeopardized her health, as well as the other snake's health, for...what exactly?

in this day and age, there is 0 excuse for this kind of ignorance and nonchalance towards the needs of your animals. you knew what these animals needed to be healthy and happy and you flatly ignored this.

i'm only being harsh so hopefully you can reflect on your actions and how they affect your animals. TBH i would try and re-home one and focus your attention on the other as you seem to lack the resources to care for them both.

freeze the eggs. you cannot provide for the snakes you have now, let alone a clutch.

good luck, for the animals' sake.

How exciting!!

Can anyone say scrambled eggs for breakfast? LOLOL.

Personally I'd advertise fertile snake eggs on Craig's List, I wouldn't even think about killing them in the egg. I know normals don't have much monetary value to them but they still make fantastic pets. If I were closer I'd take them off your hands. I've actually considered selling fertile ball python eggs at a show, not sure how well they would hold up to being moved and sold but I would probably be the very first person to ever sell ball python eggs. If you were closer I'd even let you borrow my reptile incubator, I have a couple smaller ones like you listed that I'm not even using since I moved up to larger incubators. If you could find a local breeder he may let you use an incubator and take the hatchlings off your hands after they hatch assuming you don't want to keep them.

Well they obviously did not come out of nowhere since you had a male and a female together :rolleyes:

Simply get rid of them, you are not prepared and need to focus on providing proper husbandry to the snake you already have instead of adding more to care for.

I gotta agree with tttaylorrr and Deborah on this one.

Not trying to be a jerk, but fix your current issues before creating more.

I'd like to add three things.

1. You should definitively reflect on if you're suitable to raise any animals since you seem to not really care for their needs.
Every ball python needs it's own enclosure! And there are many reasons why this is a rule.
Housing two snakes with different genders in the same enclosure can lead to your situation. It can also stress the animals unnecessarily and it is very difficult to keep track of each snakes' health.
It is your duty as an owner to provide the best care possible and to educate about these animals. Do what is needed for the animals sake. If you don't have the money or space to own two snake, then simply don't.

2. This might be a very personal opinion but even though you don't seem to have any idea how to treat these animals I wouldn't freeze the eggs. I feel like these animals don't deserve to die just because you made a mistake.
My suggestion would be to find someone who knows how to treat these animals and give the eggs to him. If that is not possible, you should probably freeze the eggs since I believe this is the better choice for the animal but that is a last resort. You have to seriously try to find someone to make up for your mistake! Write to every breeder in your area! Call them to get a quick response but do something!

3. Please think about the snakes first! Your decision should not be based on your desires but about what is best for the snakes.
To give you a little something to think about. My brother found my cat in a garbage bin when she was only five weeks old. She was calling for her mother. It seemed like that someone couldn't care for her and threw her into the garbage. He gave her to me (it was summer vacation and my parents were/are working full time, often even the whole nights) and I raised her by bottle because she was still too young to be separated from her mother. Now she is about to turn 3 years old and is a healthy little cat but sadly I couldn't help her to socialise with other cats, so she detests them.
She is a very weird cat lady and acts more like a human than a cat but if no one had found her that night she would have probably died because of an unsuitable owner. Don't be like that person. Please think about the animals! That's the most responsible thing you can do!

Since you are not prepared to care for them, I would eat them. I hate wasting anything, and I’m sure python eggs are chock full of proteins.

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

Since you are not prepared to care for them, I would eat them. I hate wasting anything, and I’m sure python eggs are chock full of proteins.

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I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment. I am curious how snake omelettes taste so if you do, please report back on the flavor, texture, and ease of preparation.

Edit: if you decide on creating snake balut, please do not report back because that's just nasty

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Originally Posted by SDA

Edit: if you decide on creating snake balut, please do not report back because that's just nasty

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this was the worst google of my life...TIL what balut is.
:puke2:

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Originally Posted by Godzilla78

Since you are not prepared to care for them, I would eat them. I hate wasting anything, and I’m sure python eggs are chock full of proteins.

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Originally Posted by SDA

I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment. I am curious how snake omelettes taste so if you do, please report back on the flavor, texture, and ease of preparation.

Edit: if you decide on creating snake balut, please do not report back because that's just nasty

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Haha, you guys are crazy! Id try just about anything, if it was prepared for me from a restaurant that made snake eggs as a delicacy or something that had experience in it and knew what they were doing, sure. But cooking up my pet snakes eggs, something just doesn’t sound right about that lol. Now I do agree with not wasting anything so if you have some other animal that it would be a good food source for, that’s what I would do. If not freeze them.

There is no reason to bring more unwanted normals into this world that may potentially be mistreated and suffer a long miserable life. Finding a way to get rid of them now before they develop is the most humane thing to do imo.

Since snake eggs are somewhat developed at the time of oviposition, it would be snake balut. Too creepy for me.

I'm also for eating them, I've had Iguana eggs while traveling through South America and they were delicious not going to lie. It was like eating rich cheddar, I don't know if the taste or texture for python eggs would taste the same but if you try it report back.

Well, from my own experience, someone will do what they want to do, despite asking for advice and despite best advice given.

Honestly, the best thing would be to destroy the eggs. You already had those animals housed together for one year, when you KNEW it wasn't a good thing. Because you couldn't (or wouldn't) find a better solution just yet.

You say its for financial reasons, because you are trying to purchase 2 big enclosures. And there is nothing wrong with getting enclosures such as that, they are nice !!

However, making 2 nice tubs work, would have been just fine, even if that meant you had to wait on getting the cages a couple month later as planned, because investing a bit of the money into the tub setups.

Now you KNOW all that, so no need to go over it..

If you want to save those eggs and the hatchlings (and I think you do) it will also be a financial investment, don't kid yourself that it won't. Now I understand wanting to save the eggs, I do. Eggs are EXCITING. Little hatchlings are EXCITING. The thought to destroy those possibilities can be hard to swallow.

Now, if despite all the good advice given you want to DO this, then do it RIGHT.

First of all, you have to be prepared.

Even if you let the mom incubate herself and save yourself the cost of an incubator or building one, you will still need to be prepared to house the hatchlings. And PROPERLY so.
You need to be prepared for those hatchlings, even if the eggs at some time of development fail. And that can happen even shortly before hatch date. Housing hatchlings correctly is important. It can be difficult enough to get them eating and thriving as is, if husbandry is not correct, it can be a endless frustration.

Setting them up correctly, even if you go the DIY method, will cost money.
A incubator costs money.
Either of those options taken, you HAVE TO remove the male finally, and set him up CORRECTLY!!! That also costs money, and you need thermostats and correct heat for ALL those setups.

You said you couldn't get $450 together in one year, for the cages of those 2. Even if you go cheap...if you go RIGHT it will cost you at least half of that before the hatchlings hatch.

Then you have to feed them. You WILL waste some food, they don't always go for it right away. You usually have to feed live for the first few feedings. Live rodents, even small ones, can start getting expensive if you get them at the pet store. You should keep (and keep feeding) the hatchlings until they are well established and get a bit of size to them and eat well. Usually that can mean at LEAST 5 meals each. Add that up in rodents, and then add a bunch of rodents to that for failed feedings.

After all that expense and trouble, you will not get much money for the hatchlings, even if you manage to sell them. You will certainly not turn a profit. It can still be a great experience, no doubt, but again, will you do it right ? CAN you ?

Ultimately, you will do what you want. You may not even come back to this thread because you don't like the answers you've been given.

What I would like to see, is that you commit to do the right thing, no matter what they may be. First priority should be the animals you already have. Get them set up correctly.
If you can swing the additional expense of raising a clutch, all the way through, then go for it.

You can stick around and ask for help, and you will get the help. You can find better solutions without breaking the bank. But you have to be willing to accept advice. No-one will condone and help along the way doing this "half-donkey butt".

So its up to you.

I was thinking about getting a normal or 2 to prove out genetics of future clutches. Some breeders do this. Not ready right now but one day I do see in the future. Normal are desired from time to time. You will not likely make money off of them. I would love to incubate a clutch. I am at lest a year away from my first clutch. I can wait but is so exciting. So much preparation and careful selection of potential breeding. So many variables that it wonderful to learn and grow so much along the way. If money is an issue for you I would be talking to a local breeder that might take them off your hands. I see no reason to kill them. Letting mama take care of the eggs is a joy for her. She has worked so hard to produce them. I would separate the male and keep a close eye on husbandry. You need to invest $$ either way to keep everyone healthy. Are you willing and prepared to do so? If yes then work hard to do it correctly. If not then now is the time to act to cull the eggs before they get to far along. Make a decision and quickly and make a healthy one.

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Originally Posted by Viper0hr

Should I
A) Leave them all alone and let her nest them and hope the male stays nice.
B) Remove/Find temp home for male and let her nest them.
C) Make myself a makeshift incubator and steal the eggs to try and save.
D) Some better plan?
E) Kick myself for being stupid

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i think options D and E.

anyway reading through this thread, it seemed like u were set on keeping the eggs from the beginning. i hope u learn, get better immediately and wish u the best.

Ok, first off thanks to everyone who replied, even those who seem to think I mistreat my animals, I do understand your point and position even if I think you came off a little harsh, which is fine. Regardless thanks for taking the time to reply and for any options/advice, it is appreciated.

I just want to say first, that when I received these snakes it was from someone who was unable to give them to anyone else after a week on CL and FB and was moving from Florida to Washington that following day (She was packing the last of the house as I arrived to pick them up), it was basically a "or else they will be wild released" sort of situation and I was told they were supposed to be the same gender by the owner who had owned both since they were babies, and I even asked here as well as local for issues housing together and was told that while it was not common and is best to separate asap, that so long as resources and space were ok and there was no "fighting" for better spots or resources that there should be little issue until they can be separated, so I chose to provide them with with bigger/better inner cage hides and things while I can, I spent $100 on the snakes and cage/setup from the owner and ended up spending $150+ the following week just upgrading the setup and adding a herpstate and proper temp/humidity readers since the original heat pad was UNREGULATED. I know and understand that separation is the best option and am not making excuses, just explaining my position on the issue and why I did what I did, and that I knew of the possibility for issues, of which there were none I have seen until the eggs. I by no means would want any harm at all to come to any animal I own if possible. I mainly found it extremely insulting that someone strongly implied that I cannot even provide food for my snakes any therefore should not have them (I have had a thriving small mouse colony since getting them and have plenty of frozen mice stored).
I am not a huge fan of rack systems due to lack of experience with them, and have passed on the opportunities to buy local made 4x2x2 enclosures to hopefully buy quality PVC ones instead when possible, which is why i neglected to do so until now, which is wholly my responsibility.

So anyways, to the issue at hand.
I have contacted a few people local through friends and am seeing if there is a breeder local who would want the eggs for free to keep and raise if possible, if there is no one by tomorrow I will remove and freeze the eggs and then dispose of them. As I said before I would have kept them if possible, but mainly because I do not want any eggs/life to go to waste if I can help it, but agree the best option is to dispose of them if I am unable to find them a home.
A good friend also asked if he could house the male at his home possibly, he has a nice 55+ gallon tank that would be nice for the male, he is a great pet owner and loves his animals like family and has and has had reptiles, so I trust him to take care of the snake, and most likely will be re homing the male there for the future.


If I understand correctly, the entire cage should be cleaned after the eggs removed to be of the scent, and the female should be soaked, anything else recommended?


Once again, thanks to those who replied, even the mean ones (joke), sorry for any wraith or anger that may have occurred at my stupidity, I entered owning my snakes with minimum knowledge and a goal to just provide my pets with as good a life as I can, and if I have to get yelled at on a forum for my mistakes, at least I will try and learn from them.

My advice is to freeze the eggs.

You already stated you didn't have the money to set a second cage up. Then you go on to say you could put together a incubator and a rack for the multiple possible babies.

I know you mentioned the $450 cage you wanted but it cost much less to get a tub and set it up properly(see our sticky post on setting up a tub enclosure) to get the snakes housed separately.

When you "thought" the female was gravid, you didn't plan on what to do. Waiting until there is an issue makes everything an emergency.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

My advice is to freeze the eggs.

You already stated you didn't have the money to set a second cage up. Then you go on to say you could put together a incubator and a rack for the multiple possible babies.

I know you mentioned the $450 cage you wanted but it cost much less to get a tub and set it up properly(see our sticky post on setting up a tub enclosure) to get the snakes housed separately.

When you "thought" the female was gravid, you didn't plan on what to do. Waiting until there is an issue makes everything an emergency.

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I have had the money to make up a second cage before and do now, my goal was to buy 2 matching stackable PVC cages so that I would not have to upgrade or replace them again, which is where the $450 price came from and I was not financially secure enough to spend that + what extras I would need to setup both at the same time and feel I had enough "fall back" funds left over. I personally do not like racks, but understand that they are a good option, and could throw one together from my herp stuff in an hour or 2 if I really needed to.
As for the female being gravid, I was told they were males, and by the time I noticed that she had a bulge she was already pregnant because she laid the eggs within a week or 2.

Above your post was my response to the thread anyways, I am looking for someone to take the eggs if they want them for free, if not will freeze them, and the male is being rehomed for now.

If I could edit the original post I would add my response to the bottom of the 1st one so people could see it.

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Originally Posted by Viper0hr

I have had the money to make up a second cage before and do now, my goal was to buy 2 matching stackable PVC cages so that I would not have to upgrade or replace them again, which is where the $450 price came from and I was not financially secure enough to spend that + what extras I would need to setup both at the same time and feel I had enough "fall back" funds left over. I personally do not like racks, but understand that they are a good option, and could throw one together from my herp stuff in an hour or 2 if I really needed to.
As for the female being gravid, I was told they were males, and by the time I noticed that she had a bulge she was already pregnant because she laid the eggs within a week or 2.

Above your post was my response to the thread anyways, I am looking for someone to take the eggs if they want them for free, if not will freeze them, and the male is being rehomed for now.

If I could edit the original post I would add my response to the bottom of the 1st one so people could see it.

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alotta times it's not what u like, but what's best your your animals. u could have put your spare heatpad and herpstat towards a simple sterilite tub until u had $450 for your ideal enclosures. even if u were told they were both boy BP's and believed that, u must have noticed them coiled together in the year u had them. that's not good. that means they are either competing for space or making babies.

u mention your female is the smaller BP. how big is she? producing eggs can take alot out of her. i hope she will be fine.

Hindsight 20/20 a simple rack setup would have been a good alternative, and still can be for the future, but in the end it's just a shouldof couldof for me sadly.
I have not seen them coil in a very long time, as in 6+ months, when I got them there was only one hide and a half log, which I quickly fixed into multiple hides on each side, they have been an overall event-less pair living together until this, which is one reason I think I was slow to separate.

The female was in the 1300s last checked, it is about 1/4 or 1/5 smaller than the big one. I have left her alone to not stress her, but when checked she looked fine and was active (As much as she could curling a clutch) lifting up and watching me, there was no blood/discharge/anything bad noticeable and the eggs all looks very healthy.

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Originally Posted by Viper0hr

Once again, thanks to those who replied, even the mean ones (joke), sorry for any wraith or anger that may have occurred at my stupidity, I entered owning my snakes with minimum knowledge and a goal to just provide my pets with as good a life as I can, and if I have to get yelled at on a forum for my mistakes, at least I will try and learn from them.

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hey i was one of the meanies. [emoji3] im happy you're back and replying, and i'm glad you're looking into options for the eggs and are being so open to the criticism. that alone means you're already better than you were before. we and your snakes thank you!!!

we all just want you to learn and grow, but most importantly do right by your animals! we care about the animals over any feelings we or anyone else has, which is why we can become upset at posts like this.

i don't think you're neglecting your animals or anything; you just made dumb mistakes that were easily prevented and you knew better. your animals are the ones that suffer from your mistakes, not you: remember this.

please keep us posted on the eggs and your pets! I really hope you heed the advice we gave and separate those snakes asap! [emoji4]

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Originally Posted by tttaylorrr

hey i was one of the meanies. [emoji3] im happy you're back and replying, and i'm glad you're looking into options for the eggs and are being so open to the criticism. that alone means you're already better than you were before. we and your snakes thank you!!!

we all just want you to learn and grow, but most importantly do right by your animals! we care about the animals over any feelings we or anyone else has, which is why we can become upset at posts like this.

i don't think you're neglecting your animals or anything; you just made dumb mistakes that were easily prevented and you knew better. your animals are the ones that suffer from your mistakes, not you: remember this.

please keep us posted on the eggs and your pets! I really hope you heed the advice we gave and separate those snakes asap! [emoji4]

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Thanks! I can take people being harsh, so long as it's not for nothing, and I for sure understand where people here came from.

I am set to start a really good paying job soon, and have my friend willing to house the other snake for now, so either way the situation is going to improve.

I will be sure to post with what happens, fingers crossed on finding the eggs a local home, I even messaged a local shop I have bought from a few times and asked if they knew anyone.

It sounds to me like you've planned out a solid path forward - glad to hear it. Also, tubs, particularly for a single snake, really don't have to be the minimalistic route that people with a larger number of ball pythons have. Mine, which I used for my ball python until I upgraded him to his pvc enclosure, is very oversized compared to the recommended and has a removable wooden perch for climbing in addition to all the fake foliage and such (cheaply and easily made with a wooden dowel and eye hooks). With a little creativity, it's a good option for even those who want to give a more complex set-up but are waiting on making the big investments for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by Kcl

It sounds to me like you've planned out a solid path forward - glad to hear it. Also, tubs, particularly for a single snake, really don't have to be the minimalistic route that people with a larger number of ball pythons have. Mine, which I used for my ball python until I upgraded him to his pvc enclosure, is very oversized compared to the recommended and has a removable wooden perch for climbing in addition to all the fake foliage and such (cheaply and easily made with a wooden dowel and eye hooks). With a little creativity, it's a good option for even those who want to give a more complex set-up but are waiting on making the big investments for whatever reason.

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See, I had not really thought about that.
My biggest issue with rack/tub, and why I did not go for them, is that all the ones I ever see are paper bottomed with a water bowl and single hide inside. I just felt taking a BP that has lived it's whole life in a bigger cage with a heat lamp spot and branch/fake foliage and space and putting it inside a box would be a little stressful for it...But, maybe they would not care either way, they are "just snakes" lol.

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Originally Posted by Viper0hr

See, I had not really thought about that.
My biggest issue with rack/tub, and why I did not go for them, is that all the ones I ever see are paper bottomed with a water bowl and single hide inside. I just felt taking a BP that has lived it's whole life in a bigger cage with a heat lamp spot and branch/fake foliage and space and putting it inside a box would be a little stressful for it...But, maybe they would not care either way, they are "just snakes" lol.

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look up user @Starscream and look and their tub setup for their jeuvinal Mazikeen. it's one of the most beautiful tubs i've ever seen; they did a fantastic job. you just gotta get creative!

EDIT: here's a link to Starscream's thread!
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show....php?p=2585566

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Originally Posted by Viper0hr

See, I had not really thought about that.
My biggest issue with rack/tub, and why I did not go for them, is that all the ones I ever see are paper bottomed with a water bowl and single hide inside. I just felt taking a BP that has lived it's whole life in a bigger cage with a heat lamp spot and branch/fake foliage and space and putting it inside a box would be a little stressful for it...But, maybe they would not care either way, they are "just snakes" lol.

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Nah, at the end of the day a tub is just a kind of container. As long as you have a way to keep the ambient temperatures up decently, you can grab the biggest one you can find and put anything you want in there. Use coco-fiber, put in live lucky bamboo, put in fake foliage, put in branches, put in moss - I've had all of that in a tub. I like pvc better because there's better options for raising ambient temperatures, but you can make a pretty complex setup in a $20 plastic tub.

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Originally Posted by Kcl

Nah, at the end of the day a tub is just a kind of container. As long as you have a way to keep the ambient temperatures up decently, you can grab the biggest one you can find and put anything you want in there. Use coco-fiber, put in live lucky bamboo, put in fake foliage, put in branches, put in moss - I've had all of that in a tub. I like pvc better because there's better options for raising ambient temperatures, but you can make a pretty complex setup in a $20 plastic tub.

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Yeah, I just checked out Starscreams tub setup taylor recommended above, I may do that actually. Is a UTH good enough for a setup like that though? I like the idea of there being light/basking heat if possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Viper0hr

Yeah, I just checked out Starscreams tub setup taylor recommended above, I may do that actually. Is a UTH good enough for a setup like that though? I like the idea of there being light/basking heat if possible.

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UTH is sufficient if the ambient temperature of wherever you're putting it is sufficient. Other methods of providing additional heat are a bit tricky, but possible if you get creative. Some people have replaced a section of the tub lid with wire mesh to allow for an overhead CHE to be placed. I personally set up a CHE using one of those stick on lamp stands zip tied to a stand alone toilet-paper holder so it's kind of like a desk lamp type setup and could be placed so it's above the tub. It wasn't the best aesthetics (although at least you couldn't tell it was a toilet-paper holder), but it worked. On the easier side of things, small space heaters work for raising ambient temps too.

Hindsight will always be 20/20 and I do apologize, I did not intend for my post to sound so 'mean'. I'll please tiredness in how harsh it sounded.

I wanted to point out that there's always cheaper alternatives than the really nice fancy caging. It's always preferable to get the snakes into healthy caging, even if you intend to buy the really nice cages later on. So tubs to get them set, and later the fancy caging. Then you'll also have a tub(s) set up to use if you need to quarantine or move a snake somewhere... or just for a friend who needs caging because they impulse got a snake(there's always one of those friends).

You honestly sound like a pretty level headed person and I'm sure that you'll get everything sorted in short order.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Hindsight will always be 20/20 and I do apologize, I did not intend for my post to sound so 'mean'. I'll please tiredness in how harsh it sounded.

I wanted to point out that there's always cheaper alternatives than the really nice fancy caging. It's always preferable to get the snakes into healthy caging, even if you intend to buy the really nice cages later on. So tubs to get them set, and later the fancy caging. Then you'll also have a tub(s) set up to use if you need to quarantine or move a snake somewhere... or just for a friend who needs caging because they impulse got a snake(there's always one of those friends).

You honestly sound like a pretty level headed person and I'm sure that you'll get everything sorted in short order.

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Thanks, even with the "being mean", I try and take it for what it is, honest criticism.

I am in the process of setting up 2 tub setups on a vertical shelf instead of the current long tank, and should have it done and the snakes moved over in a week or less. I plan on using the 41qt sizes but are higher (I think they are 100L or something), to provide more room for climbing and a lamp for each snake in addition to heat tape.

Not going to get into any of the housing topics as they have been covered pretty well, just thought I'd add that with the male being re-homed and all and animal plastics cage may be more doable. I know that they have sales a few times a year (and a big one near Christmas of course). I waited myself to purchase one for my snake until they went on sale.

Good luck